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Anybody heard of topsteptrader (review)


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Anybody heard of topsteptrader (review)

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  #201 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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Congrats OBX.. VICTORY!

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  #202 (permalink)
 omni72 
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A good interview from "OBX Trader", the latest funded trader at TST. I like this guy, he talks about PASR trading, and says that he really enjoys psychology books and Dr. Brett Steenbarger.

Mike

Excellent interview, thx for posting Mike. I've listened to most of these interviews and this is one of the best I've heard.

And, of course, big ups to OBX Trader!

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  #203 (permalink)
 trendisyourfriend 
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Big Mike View Post
A good interview from "OBX Trader",...I like this guy, he talks about PASR trading,..
Mike

I thought you were not a big fan of these indicators? The Parabolic SAR and such. It's weekend time.

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  #204 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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trendisyourfriend View Post
I thought you were not a big fan of these indicators? The Parabolic SAR and such. It's weekend time.

PASR is not Parabolic SAR and is not an indicator. Click on the word PASR in my post, you'll see it means Price Action + Support/Resistance.

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 trendisyourfriend 
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PASR is not Parabolic SAR and is not an indicator. Click on the word PASR in my post, you'll see it means Price Action + Support/Resistance.

Mike

I know Mike, it was just to make fun at the spelling so close to the PSAR indicator and knowing what you think about indicators in general. That's why i added, it's weekend time.

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  #206 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Another new interview for a new funded trader, I found this interview good as well.



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  #207 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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I found this interesting, it is the top P&L for traders in the combine today



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  #208 (permalink)
 omni72 
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Big Mike View Post
I found this interesting, it is the top P&L for traders in the combine today



Mike

Interesting. It'd also be interesting to see the other end of the spectrum. Especially if it included hold time of winners vs losers

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  #209 (permalink)
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omni72 View Post
Interesting. It'd also be interesting to see the other end of the spectrum. Especially if it included hold time of winners vs losers

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And I should mention the source:

Twitter / TopstepTrader: Top Net P&L ...

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  #210 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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omni72 View Post
Interesting. It'd also be interesting to see the other end of the spectrum. Especially if it included hold time of winners vs losers

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It's here.

https://futures.io/254206191998234624

I also asked him to add the avg trade duration by w/l, he seemed receptive, so maybe next time.

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  #211 (permalink)
 omni72 
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Big Mike View Post
And I should mention the source:

Twitter / TopstepTrader: Top Net P&L ...

Mike

Man, nothing like a publicly viewable leader board to keep ya acting right

Also, it may be obvious, but the 'k' prefix gives you the trader's daily loss limit. And therefore the various account size being traded (50K, 100K, or 150K).

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  #212 (permalink)
 Sunil P 
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I love winners,even if it is SIM.

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  #213 (permalink)
 josh 
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Stupid question: is the "loss" number for the combine given ($3K for the $150K account for example) the max loss below the initial balance of the account, or per day?

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  #214 (permalink)
 omni72 
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josh View Post
Stupid question: is the "loss" number for the combine given ($3K for the $150K account for example) the max loss below the initial balance of the account, or per day?

Per day. And you can lose more than that, but if you do the rest of your combine is basically just practice. That's why on the losing end of the spectrum you'll see so many within a few dollars of the DLL - nobody wants to get knocked out

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  #215 (permalink)
 Silver Dragon 
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josh View Post
Stupid question: is the "loss" number for the combine given ($3K for the $150K account for example) the max loss below the initial balance of the account, or per day?

@josh

3000 is a single day loss limit. So if they started with 150,000 this morning and hit 147,000 at noon the account would be locked for the rest of the session.

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 josh 
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omni72 View Post
Per day. And you can lose more than that, but if you do the rest of your combine is basically just practice. That's why on the losing end of the spectrum you'll see so many within a few dollars of the DLL - nobody wants to get knocked out

And if you lose $2999.99 you're okay, but $3000.00 or more and you are not considered for funding, regardless of how you do afterward, correct?

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  #217 (permalink)
 Silver Dragon 
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josh View Post
And if you lose $2999.99 you're okay, but $3000.00 or more and you are not considered for funding, regardless of how you do afterward, correct?

That would be correct.

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  #218 (permalink)
 omni72 
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Silver Dragon View Post

josh View Post
And if you lose $2999.99 you're okay, but $3000.00 or more and you are not considered for funding, regardless of how you do afterward, correct?

That would be correct.

And that is just for that combine. Once it is complete, the slate is clean and you are eligible for funding again.

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  #219 (permalink)
 omni72 
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Undoubtedly, you can find some ideas and possible best practices from the top performers list. But you can definitely get an idea of what the other side is doing when it comes to less-than-best practices:




That hurts, man. Some of those guys are just days into their combine, and they are already out of it for this go-around. I don't know if it comes across yet, but this ain't an easy gig.

It is great to see guys pulling 10k days on just 10 cars. That's awesome. It really is and I hope to see more futures.io (formerly BMT)'ers on that kind of list. But part of what that dude did was NOT do stuff that knocked him out of the the race. Stuff that was common on the other list.

If you want to obsess about anything, obsess about risk.

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  #220 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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omni72 View Post
Undoubtedly, you can find some ideas and possible best practices from the top performers list. But you can definitely get an idea of what the other side is doing when it comes to less-than-best practices:




That hurts, man. Some of those guys are just days into their combine, and they are already out of it for this go-around. I don't know if it comes across yet, but this ain't an easy gig.

It is great to see guys pulling 10k days on just 10 cars. That's awesome. It really is and I hope to see more futures.io (formerly BMT)'ers on that kind of list. But part of what that dude did was NOT do stuff that knocked him out of the the race. Stuff that was common on the other list.

If you want to obsess about anything, obsess about risk.

Is the DLL net or gross? A couple of those at the bottom of the list maybe thought it was gross, and didn't factor in commissions.

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  #221 (permalink)
 madLyfe 
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omni72 View Post
Undoubtedly, you can find some ideas and possible best practices from the top performers list. But you can definitely get an idea of what the other side is doing when it comes to less-than-best practices:




That hurts, man. Some of those guys are just days into their combine, and they are already out of it for this go-around. I don't know if it comes across yet, but this ain't an easy gig.

It is great to see guys pulling 10k days on just 10 cars. That's awesome. It really is and I hope to see more futures.io (formerly BMT)'ers on that kind of list. But part of what that dude did was NOT do stuff that knocked him out of the the race. Stuff that was common on the other list.

If you want to obsess about anything, obsess about risk.

another reason why these guys, and why i would finish the combine out is i think you can hit 2 or 3 of the 4 goals(i could be off on these numbers but i havnt looked at them for awhile but i did know at one time) and get your money back or roll it into another combine... so not only for the mental side of things, or for the extra time(already paid for) that you have to work with their system and improve, you can also get your money back..

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

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  #222 (permalink)
 omni72 
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Big Mike View Post
Is the DLL net or gross? A couple of those at the bottom of the list maybe thought it was gross, and didn't factor in commissions.

Mike

Excellent question. It is net and I am certain you are correct. On the surface it seems like a trivial thing to just get the details wrong on something like that. The problem is those details effectively relate to the opportunity to trade someone else's money. It's probably a good idea to err on the side of caution and a better idea to know as much as possible before placing their first trade




madLyfe View Post
another reason why these guys, and why i would finish the combine out is i think you can hit 2 or 3 of the 4 goals(i could be off on these numbers but i havnt looked at them for awhile but i did know at one time) and get your money back or roll it into another combine... so not only for the mental side of things, or for the extra time(already paid for) that you have to work with their system and improve, you can also get your money back..

While I agree with finishing out, it would only be to get what I can from the experience and practice. Exceeding your Daily Loss Limit always eliminates you from contention for refunds and funded accounts. It's the only rule you can't recover from (unlike hold time, w/l ratio, etc). Exceed it, and you are done.

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  #223 (permalink)
 omni72 
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Got this in my email this afternoon:


Quoting 
Join us for a 3-part webinar series with Linda Raschke!

TopstepTrader is excited to announce that Linda Bradford Raschke will be presenting a 3-part webinar series on the TopstepTrader Live Squawk Radio, starting TOMORROW, October 12, 2012 at 12pm CST.

Linda Raschke has been a full time professional trader for over 30 years. Linda is a commodities and futures trader and is President of LBRGroup, Inc., a registered CTA and money management firm and president of LBR Asset Management, a Commodity Pool Operator. Her hedge fund has been ranked 17th out of 4500 for best 5 year performance by BarclaysHedge. Linda has been featured in dozens of financial publications, books, and radio and television programs. Linda has also co-authored a best-selling book and has lectured in over 22 countries.

Linda's 3-part webinar series will cover the following topics each week, followed by a Q&A session:

Week 1 Topic (Friday, October 12): Preparing my game plan for the day - How to implement my strategy properly, the things that might keep me from implementing it, and how to address these issues with preventative measures.

Week 2 Topic (Friday, October 19): Routines and Rituals - The importance of creating structure. Insurance for the numbers game. Insurance? For what?

Week 3 Topic (Friday, October 26): Survey of the Scenery - Strategies, styles, trading environments, indicators, news, execution platforms. "Help me I have brain fry....."

Join us tomorrow when we will be opening up our Live Squawk Radio all day (beginning at 8:15am CST) to guests. To join the broadcast, follow this link TST Trading Floor, choose the "pit" of the product you trade, check the "Login as guest" box, and enter a Display Name.

We look forward to seeing you in the chat room tomorrow. Questions? Contact us at 312.252.9490 or email support (at topsteptrader.com).

So it appears as though this is open to non-TST'ers too. Nice!

I'm a bit of a LBR fanboi, so I'm pretty psyched they are bringing her in

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  #224 (permalink)
 josh 
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Is anyone else using Sierra for their combine? I just signed up for a 20 day (it seems to be what the cool kids are doing), and I am unclear as to whether to use the Sim server or Live server, and also under Accounts I have two listed -- they are both long and one starts with a letter and another with a number. Anyone using Sierra or T4 know about this?

It will be interesting to see if I can manage my regular live account with this one simultaneously.

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  #225 (permalink)
 omni72 
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josh View Post
Is anyone else using Sierra for their combine? I just signed up for a 20 day (it seems to be what the cool kids are doing), and I am unclear as to whether to use the Sim server or Live server, and also under Accounts I have two listed -- they are both long and one starts with a letter and another with a number. Anyone using Sierra or T4 know about this?

It will be interesting to see if I can manage my regular live account with this one simultaneously.

You will need to use the Sim server. Did you sign up with the practice account as well? Guessing one is your practice account and the other is your Combine account (that gets reviewed).

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 josh 
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omni72 View Post
You will need to use the Sim server. Did you sign up with the practice account as well? Guessing one is your practice account and the other is your Combine account (that gets reviewed).

Thank you omni. Yes, the practice account came free so I have one. I sent them an email to ask, but have not heard back and was trying to get everything set up tonight so if I decide to trade this account tomorrow it will be smooth sailing. Do you mind looking to see if your combine account starts with two letters, or two numbers?

EDIT: nevermind that, I figured a way to find it. I can log into the CTS T4 mobile and it's labelled in there so I can do it this way.

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 omni72 
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josh View Post
Thank you omni. Yes, the practice account came free so I have one. I sent them an email to ask, but have not heard back and was trying to get everything set up tonight so if I decide to trade this account tomorrow it will be smooth sailing. Do you mind looking to see if your combine account starts with two letters, or two numbers?

EDIT: nevermind that, I figured a way to find it. I can log into the CTS T4 mobile and it's labelled in there so I can do it this way.

Awesome! Glad you got it squared away. I think the dual account capability is relatively new in SC and haven't actually used it. The only time I've used my practice account was for the first couple of days of my combine when unbeknownst to me my T4 platform defaulted to it instead of my real-deal combine account

Funny thing is some guy was on here the other day talking about how TST traders need to make sure of the details before they put on a trade ... Hey, I never said I was immune to these things. A lot of the knowledge I try to pass along comes from mistakes I've made

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 Big Mike 
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So just to clarify, what is the correct procedure here with Sierra Chart?

Mike

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  #229 (permalink)
 madLyfe 
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is there a way we can sorta list all of the TST journals in one area, or leave them in their respective posted areas but note them as being TST journals somewhere?

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

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 Big Mike 
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madLyfe View Post
is there a way we can sorta list all of the TST journals in one area, or leave them in their respective posted areas but note them as being TST journals somewhere?

Could just keep an on-going list in this thread.

Here are the ones I can think of right now:

@David_R's
@mmarco's
@addchild's
@tderrick's

I think that @josh and @Silver Dragon have mentioned they will be starting the combine, but don't quote me on that.

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 omni72 
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Big Mike View Post
So just to clarify, what is the correct procedure here with Sierra Chart?

Mike

(From Sierra Chart - View Single Post - want to connect to CTS T4 for real-time simulation.)


Quoting 

Do File -> Data/Trade Service Settings -> Choose CTS, use Sim Server

Login
Password
Firm

Then uncheck
Trade -> "Sim mode On"

And if you have a practice account and 'live' combine account, you'll need to figure out which of the two account listed is which. I'd post a screenshot, but I'm not able to get to my charts, etc.

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 madLyfe 
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Big Mike View Post
Could just keep an on-going list in this thread.

Here are the ones I can think of right now:

@David_R's
@mmarco's
@addchild's
@tderrick's

I think that @josh and @Silver Dragon have mentioned they will be starting the combine, but don't quote me on that.

Mike

ah cool, maybe post it in the quick summary? where ppl could just add theirs to it or if someone doesnt know about that ppl could help out and add it there for them?

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

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  #233 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Big Mike View Post
I also asked him to add the avg trade duration by w/l, he seemed receptive, so maybe next time.

Mike

I forgot to post this, Michael Patak shared this with me earlier today:



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  #234 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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I forgot @GaryD, I think he was saying he will start one.

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 Silver Dragon 
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Big Mike View Post
Could just keep an on-going list in this thread.

Here are the ones I can think of right now:

@David_R's
@mmarco's
@addchild's
@tderrick's

I think that @josh and @Silver Dragon have mentioned they will be starting the combine, but don't quote me on that.

Mike


Haven't started yet but plan on doing the combine. I will post a link when I start

Robert

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  #236 (permalink)
 omni72 
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Silver Dragon View Post
Haven't started yet but plan on doing the combine. I will post a link when I start

Robert

Same here. Mine starts the 22nd.

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 Big Mike 
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omni72 View Post
Same here. Mine starts the 22nd.

Is this when they all start? Or do you get to pick a custom starting date?

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  #238 (permalink)
 omni72 
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Big Mike View Post
Is this when they all start? Or do you get to pick a custom starting date?

Mike

You pick your own starting date. If I recall, you can set up up to a week-ish ahead of time.

Edit: Just checked and right now you can set your start date as late as Tues, Oct 23rd, so that many days

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  #239 (permalink)
 josh 
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Big Mike View Post
So just to clarify, what is the correct procedure here with Sierra Chart?

TST gives the login credentials which are user, password, and firm name. And as omni said it's Sim server, not Live server.

If there are multiple accounts, these will show up under the accounts box in the same Sierra window.

To find out which was which, I logged into the T4 mobile site (they also have a desktop web version), and you can choose which account you want to use, and these are labelled as practice and combine. I placed an order on my computer and noted that it showed up in the combine account on the T4 web site, and this verified that I had selected the correct one in sierra.

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  #240 (permalink)
 HollywoodTrader 
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Big Mike View Post
I forgot to post this, Michael Patak shared this with me earlier today:



Mike


Thanks for sharing this, Big Mike. I'm currently in a combine and they do reference this list a few times during the week to give a shout out to people that are doing well at that particular point in time. I'm actually in this list right about in the middle: Moviemkr $1480.

TopStep, as in life, is what you make of it. I've been doing combines on and off for a little over a year now and have come close to being funded only once; had a $3500 profit target and reached $3460, but just couldn't get there. This actually happened just a few weeks ago and I wasn't discouraged that I was just short but was actually very encouraged because I hadn't even come close before but recent have rolled several combine over. My goal isn't to just get funded and go from there, I want to be a consistently profitable trader for the rest of my life (I'm down over $50k from when I started trading my own money a little over 4 years ago). Anyway, it was confirmation that my trading was headed in the right direction after several years in general of trying to find a trading system that fit my personality and I enjoyed; it also being profitable goes without saying.

TopStep, if nothing else, is a great tool to improve your trading by trading money without really trading money, because afterall, you are trading to keep your deposit for the combine that you are in. If you take it seriously and do well then they are there to fund you, if you just want to use them to become a better trader then you can do that as well. In my opinion, they are on the up and up and I feel lucky to have found them. I've used them, as well as my inexhaustible drive, to take my trading to the next level and build a second career for myself, I guess my first career is obvious. That's my two cents.

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  #241 (permalink)
 Shivaya 
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Personally I would love to see every single vendor of systems/indicators etc with a set of combine figures. I am a big fan of what they are doing and any trader having a go with them is to be commended. Well done!

TopStepTrader's rules are genuine and I believe it will one day be a requirement in the industry to show your credentials in the form of some type of combine figures.

Recently I have visited several $xxx a month rooms for a trial only to find the trader is on Sim101. Every excuse under the sun is given for why, but the truth is known to all experienced traders. This game is 98% mental. The rooms where live trading is going on is the future.

I'd say a Sim101 room is worth about $20 a month. The same room Live is about $99 a month. anything over that and the vendor is making more in fees than in trading.

Being consistent on Sim with an E for Edge-Ratio (MFE/MAE) of +2.00 to 3.00 or more is the goal to get to. Showing a Sim101 account over a period of 90 days with an E-Ratio over +2.00 means you are trading brilliant. That will only ever happen when losses are cut short and some big profits allowed to run.

I have been driving for 40 years, trading for 20, could I pass the current diving test? Could I pass the combine test?

I think there is an idea here that Big Mike could develop. A futures.io (formerly BMT) combine? TST has already set the scene. I can see it sorts out the traders from the rest.

Like they say, great traders talk trading ideas, average traders talk about stuff, and small traders talk about each other. The Combine is a Great Idea!

Thanks to Mike and TST for bringing it to our notice.

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  #242 (permalink)
 tderrick 
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Shivaya View Post
Personally I would love to see every single vendor of systems/indicators etc with a set of combine figures. I am a big fan of what they are doing and any trader having a go with them is to be commended. Well done!


I think there is an idea here that Big Mike could develop. A futures.io (formerly BMT) combine? TST has already set the scene. I can see it sorts out the traders from the rest.

Like they say, great traders talk trading ideas, average traders talk about stuff, and small traders talk about each other. The Combine is a Great Idea!

Thanks to Mike and TST for bringing it to our notice.

Shivaya

Ah.... an @Big Mike Combine.. I have brought this up before and Mike said he had no interest. ...maybe if
we just keep bringing it up every now and then, we will catch him in a weak moment and he'll go with
it..

I doubt it....


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  #243 (permalink)
 Daytrader999 
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Although I can only trade a maximum of 2 hours a day due to my regular day job, I'll give TST a try and start the combine as soon as they allow to use Ninja Trader platform.

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 tderrick 
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Daytrader999 View Post
Although I can only trade a maximum of 2 hours a day due to my regular day job, I'll give TST a try and start the combine as soon as they allow to use Ninja Trader platform.



It's coming very soon, my friend..... and I'll be right behind you....

I not sure If I want to attempt the combine during the holiday season or not...

Sooner or later, I'll be in


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  #245 (permalink)
 Cashish 
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tderrick View Post
I not sure If I want to attempt the combine during the holiday season or not...

Sooner or later, I'll be in

This is a great point, another consideration might be the time change in Euro-Land on Sunday Oct 28 and the time change in Dollar-Land on Sunday Nov 4. During this in between week indicators can be a little "wacky" around the opens and the closes, for good reason.

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  #246 (permalink)
 josh 
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Regarding the profit split, the info on this page indicates that if a $30K buffer is built, that anything else above that will receive an 80/20 profit split. Is this correct, @Hoag?

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 Sad Planet 
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but the TopStep Combine is now available on the NT Platform.

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 Daytrader999 
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Thanks a lot for this information @Sad Planet, that's really good news!

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 kulu 
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Sad Planet View Post
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but the TopStep Combine is now available on the NT Platform.

Thanks for the update. Great news indeed

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 TrendTraderBH 
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I apologize if this has already been answered but as long as all the other criteria are fulfilled and the PnL looks good, what is the importance of this particular criteria:

Overall Average Win Duration greater than Overall Average Loss Duration

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 Silvester17 
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TrendTraderBH View Post
I apologize if this has already been answered but as long as all the other criteria are fulfilled and the PnL looks good, what is the importance of this particular criteria:

Overall Average Win Duration greater than Overall Average Loss Duration

yes, that's a good one.

lets use an example. first trade is a winner. you made 3 points in 5 min. now second trade. you're up 2 ticks, but already in the trade for almost 5 min. what do you do? if the trade goes against you, your average duration is greater for the loss. if you exit the trade with 2 ticks profit, then that will reduce your average win to 7 ticks. darn...

but then again it's pretty obvious what the purpose is....

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 TrendTraderBH 
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Not obvious to me....please help out a slow learner (me).



Silvester17 View Post

but then again it's pretty obvious what the purpose is....


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 Surly 
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josh View Post
Regarding the profit split, the info on this page indicates that if a $30K buffer is built, that anything else above that will receive an 80/20 profit split. Is this correct, @Hoag?

Thanks for asking this question @josh. The other question is, do you only get to take advantage of the 80/20 split if you leave the $30k "cushion" in the equity partner's account?

In other words, what if you complete a $150k combine, then build up $10k in profits, then start taking the 60/65% payout - do you need to just make another $5k (of which you keep $3000) to be moved up to a 70/30 split? And then once you make another $15k in profits (of which you keep a little more than $10k) you get to move to a 80/20 split? Or do you have to leave all your profits in the account and build up a $30k cushion to be moved to an 80/20 split?

Hope that makes sense - not a huge concern but I wondered about this the first time I read through the funded trader page...

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  #254 (permalink)
 josh 
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TrendTraderBH View Post
Not obvious to me....please help out a slow learner (me).

In general, the longer amount of time you are in a profitable trade, the more you give the market an opportunity to pay you. It is a way to more objectively measure the adage "let your winners run". Look at the s&p today. I was in a winner for about an hour. If I had been in it for 2 or 3 hours, I'd have made some real money. Instead, I got out far too early and did not get paid that well.

Vice versa for losers.

So in general, traders who spend a lot of time in losing trades and not a lot of time in winning trades will not make money.

There are always exceptions like the fast winner but I expect it will work out as the logic above.

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 Silvester17 
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josh View Post
In general, the longer amount of time you are in a profitable trade, the more you give the market an opportunity to pay you. It is a way to more objectively measure the adage "let your winners run". Look at the s&p today. I was in a winner for about an hour. If I had been in it for 2 or 3 hours, I'd have made some real money. Instead, I got out far too early and did not get paid that well.

Vice versa for losers.

So in general, traders who spend a lot of time in losing trades and not a lot of time in winning trades will not make money.

There are always exceptions like the fast winner but I expect it will work out as the logic above.

yes, couldn't disagree more.

it can go the other way as well, you were up nicely after an hour and then after 2 or 3 hours you lost it all again, because you got a little greedy maybe.

point is, if you're profitable with what you're doing, then you shouldn't care about time.

also it's important what kind of a trader you are. a scalper or a swing trader. makes a big difference too.

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  #256 (permalink)
 josh 
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Silvester17 View Post
it can go the other way as well, you were up nicely after an hour and then after 2 or 3 hours you lost it all again, because you got a little greedy maybe.

point is, if you're profitable with what you're doing, then you shouldn't care about time.

also it's important what kind of a trader you are. a scalper or a swing trader. makes a big difference too.

If you're profitable, should you not also care about profit factor, maximum drawdown, win rate, or other performance metrics? Profitability is not the most telling metric of a trader's performance. Even if a trader is profitable and has good numbers generally, he can likely still improve by knowing certain metrics and the average hold time is one of them.

Having a stat like average hold time does not mean you should trade for the stat instead of trading well; hopefully that is common sense. It would be silly to stay in a trade longer simply for staying in the trade longer so your hold time stat would improve. But a random sampling of winning traders would probably reveal a significantly longer hold time for winning trades than losing trades for most traders. The stat tells the story--the story should not be told to make the stat.

The statistic has the purpose of making the trader aware of a principle which is beneficial for most traders, nothing more.

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  #257 (permalink)
 josh 
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Another 3 questions for @Hoag:

Does max daily loss include open (unrealized) losses/drawdown, or only closed losses? Say I enter a 15 lot which goes against me 4.25 handles, leaving me with a $3200 unrealized drawdown--will I receive a margin call or have my position closed in this case?

How is a "trade" defined for the purposes of W/L, hold time, etc.? Is it by a single filled order, by flat to flat, or what? Let's say I enter a 10 lot long. I add 1. I add 1 more. Now I flatten. How many "trades" is that? What if I were to scale out?

There appears to be a very strange way that the overall stats are being calculated. Instead of being calculated as an entire set, they are calculated as a daily average. So right now my average loss is greater than my average win, but this is only possible if I have lost money net, and I'm up $800. So for two days my average loss was -$303 and -$150. You are averaging these two numbers, instead of averaging all trades. This is obviously not really correct -- if I have ten trades the first day all losing -$200 each, and one trade losing -$5 the second day, my average loss is -$182, not -$102. Help me please if I am misunderstanding this.

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  #258 (permalink)
 Silvester17 
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josh View Post
If you're profitable, should you not also care about profit factor, maximum drawdown, win rate, or other performance metrics? Profitability is not the most telling metric of a trader's performance. Even if a trader is profitable and has good numbers generally, he can likely still improve by knowing certain metrics and the average hold time is one of them.

Having a stat like average hold time does not mean you should trade for the stat instead of trading well; hopefully that is common sense. It would be silly to stay in a trade longer simply for staying in the trade longer so your hold time stat would improve. But a random sampling of winning traders would probably reveal a significantly longer hold time for winning trades than losing trades for most traders. The stat tells the story--the story should not be told to make the stat.

The statistic has the purpose of making the trader aware of a principle which is beneficial for most traders, nothing more.

this is just me. I normally enter the market with a fixed target (more a scalping approach), or I enter without a target because I believe we are in a strong trend. but in both cases as soon as I see evidence of a possible reversal I get out. doesn't matter if I'm plus or minus. and certainly doesn't matter if I'm in the market 10 min, 1 hour or 5 hours. and I believe the market doesn't care either.

like I said before, scalper or swing trader makes a big difference. another example, I'm a scalper going for 3 points with a stop of 6 ticks and I'm consistent profitable. lets say 75% winning trades. should I really care about a holding time?

stats are good. but not always helpful.

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  #259 (permalink)
 TrendTraderBH 
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Silvester17 and Josh both bring up points that I was thinking about as well. I am mostly a scalper and the faster my winner happens the better for me. My average hold time for losers is moderately greater than average hold time for winners.

What I can infer from TopStep that I "should" cut my losers sooner than waiting. Additionally, the TopStep model seems to look for traders that do this and also encourages moving stops to break even plus to avoid long in time, "unnecessary" losses. However, I have found that moving stops to break even when the indicators have not yet deteriorated is a recipe for turning a winning trading into a break even trade most of the time.

Although I am not currently planning on taking a combine I have looked at the requirements. It is possible that my trading style is not suited to their "model" of the type of trader they are looking to fund.




Silvester17 View Post
this is just me. I normally enter the market with a fixed target (more a scalping approach), or I enter without a target because I believe we are in a strong trend. but in both cases as soon as I see evidence of a possible reversal I get out. doesn't matter if I'm plus or minus. and certainly doesn't matter if I'm in the market 10 min, 1 hour or 5 hours. and I believe the market doesn't care either.

like I said before, scalper or swing trader makes a big difference. another example, I'm a scalper going for 3 points with a stop of 6 ticks and I'm consistent profitable. lets say 75% winning trades. should I really care about a holding time?

stats are good. but not always helpful.


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  #260 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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How many people are using NinjaTrader with Topstep now? My understanding is that it is now 100% available.

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  #261 (permalink)
 madLyfe 
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Big Mike View Post
How many people are using NinjaTrader with Topstep now? My understanding is that it is now 100% available.

Mike

ya i was waiting for a couple ppl to pop in and give a report about usage..

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

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 Silver Dragon 
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Big Mike View Post
How many people are using NinjaTrader with Topstep now? My understanding is that it is now 100% available.

Mike

I am using it and it is working well. Seems faster than the other data providers I was using. They still do not have my account setup correctly so i cannot report if the trades are being reflected accurately within TST. Will report back.

Robert

edit: I am using the built in sim account within NT to trade.

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  #263 (permalink)
 madLyfe 
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Silver Dragon View Post
I am using it and it is working well. Seems faster than the other data providers I was using. They still do not have my account setup correctly so i cannot report if the trades are being reflected accurately within TST. Will report back.

Robert

edit: I am using the built in sim account within NT to trade.

sim account or combine sim account? or am i still wrong and you mean the sim key?

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 Silver Dragon 
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sim account or combine sim account? or am i still wrong and you mean the sim key?

I am not doing the combine yet. Using the member practice account which gives me access to the data feed. Since they dont have my account setup correctly I cannot submit orders via the practice account. So, I am using the built in Sim account (Sim101) within NT to place practice trades.

I think this answer is more confusing than my first answer!

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 Big Mike 
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Paul "LuckyLogger" Bartell is the newest funded trader



This guy is an oil and gas trader. Not much detail in this interview, except that journaling was critical for him to learn from his mistakes. He also touched on loss limits and cutting losers quickly.

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 Futures Operator 
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josh View Post
questions for @Hoag:
There appears to be a very strange way that the overall stats are being calculated. Instead of being calculated as an entire set, they are calculated as a daily average. So right now my average loss is greater than my average win, but this is only possible if I have lost money net, and I'm up $800. So for two days my average loss was -$303 and -$150. You are averaging these two numbers, instead of averaging all trades. This is obviously not really correct -- if I have ten trades the first day all losing -$200 each, and one trade losing -$5 the second day, my average loss is -$182, not -$102. Help me please if I am misunderstanding this.

Does anyone understand how these stats work and why they're calculated this way? The overall average numbers don't make sense to me.

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  #267 (permalink)
 Hoag 
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josh View Post
Regarding the profit split, the info on this page indicates that if a $30K buffer is built, that anything else above that will receive an 80/20 profit split. Is this correct, @Hoag?

Josh,
Once you have accumulated net profits of 30k you receive the 80/20 split and do not need to maintain that cushion.

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  #268 (permalink)
 Hoag 
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josh View Post
Another 3 questions for @Hoag:

Does max daily loss include open (unrealized) losses/drawdown, or only closed losses? Say I enter a 15 lot which goes against me 4.25 handles, leaving me with a $3200 unrealized drawdown--will I receive a margin call or have my position closed in this case?

How is a "trade" defined for the purposes of W/L, hold time, etc.? Is it by a single filled order, by flat to flat, or what? Let's say I enter a 10 lot long. I add 1. I add 1 more. Now I flatten. How many "trades" is that? What if I were to scale out?

There appears to be a very strange way that the overall stats are being calculated. Instead of being calculated as an entire set, they are calculated as a daily average. So right now my average loss is greater than my average win, but this is only possible if I have lost money net, and I'm up $800. So for two days my average loss was -$303 and -$150. You are averaging these two numbers, instead of averaging all trades. This is obviously not really correct -- if I have ten trades the first day all losing -$200 each, and one trade losing -$5 the second day, my average loss is -$182, not -$102. Help me please if I am misunderstanding this.

Josh,

With regard to your first question, when your unrealized loss goes over the daily loss limit, the risk manager will flatten your position and your loss limit will be hit.

Second, trades are looked at in a first in, first out fashion and trades that are "scaled in or out" at different prices are viewed as separate trades.

Third, the way you are calculating the statistics is the way we do. If there is a discrepancy, please let us know about it via email to support.

Thank you Josh, Trade well!

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  #269 (permalink)
 josh 
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@Hoag, thank you for the answers!

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  #270 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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https://www.twitter.com/MichaelPatak/status/258617518942453761

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  #271 (permalink)
 josh 
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@Big Mike, do you have a link for this?

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  #272 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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josh View Post
@Big Mike, do you have a link for this?

For what? If you mean my last post, it is a Tweet. Michael sends them out every now and then.

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  #273 (permalink)
 BeachTrader 
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@Big Mike, you seem really interested in TopStepTrader. Do you plan to try the Combine too?

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  #274 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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BeachTrader View Post
@Big Mike, you seem really interested in TopStepTrader. Do you plan to try the Combine too?

No, my trading style (not scalping) isn't a good fit for the Combine. I am interested because I think it can help a lot of people in areas that almost everyone usually avoids (discipline and risk). I am glad to bring these topics to the surface and help them gain attention, because I think they are critically important to a traders success.

I would much rather spend my time on TST threads than on indicator or methodology threads.

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 josh 
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Big Mike View Post
For what? If you mean my last post, it is a Tweet. Michael sends them out every now and then.

Mike

Yes, I just was not sure if this is something that I can go look at online, or if only he has access to it.

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  #276 (permalink)
 Daytrader999 
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Hoag View Post
Josh,
Once you have accumulated net profits of 30k you receive the 80/20 split and do not need to maintain that cushion.

@Hoag
I've got one question regarding the 'cushion size':

Does the amount of 30k apply to ALL account sizes ?
What I'm trying to say is, if I get funded with a 50k account, do I need to build the same cushion size of 30k to get the advantage of an 80/20 split or will this be relativized to an amount of 10k (cause it's only a third of a 150k account) ?

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 Big Mike 
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josh View Post
Yes, I just was not sure if this is something that I can go look at online, or if only he has access to it.

Can't answer that sorry. He tweets them and it looks like a spreadsheet, so probably some internal report or something.

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 Hoag 
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Daytrader999 View Post
@Hoag
I've got one question regarding the 'cushion size':

Does the amount of 30k apply to ALL account sizes ?
What I'm trying to say is, if I get funded with a 50k account, do I need to build the same cushion size of 30k to get the advantage of an 80/20 split or will this be relativized to an amount of 10k (cause it's only a third of a 150k account) ?

Yes, the 15k and 30k levels apply to all account sizes. Once that profit level is reached, your split improves and you do not need to maintain that balance.

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 Futures Operator 
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josh View Post
questions for @Hoag:

There appears to be a very strange way that the overall stats are being calculated. Instead of being calculated as an entire set, they are calculated as a daily average. So right now my average loss is greater than my average win, but this is only possible if I have lost money net, and I'm up $800. So for two days my average loss was -$303 and -$150. You are averaging these two numbers, instead of averaging all trades. This is obviously not really correct -- if I have ten trades the first day all losing -$200 each, and one trade losing -$5 the second day, my average loss is -$182, not -$102. Help me please if I am misunderstanding this.

@Hoag, or anyone else, could you please explain why the stats are calculated this way, taking the overall average of each trading day, rather the overall average of all trades? Isn't this inaccurate for an overall view of all trades? Just trying to understand.

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  #280 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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 Daytrader999 
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Hoag View Post
Yes, the 15k and 30k levels apply to all account sizes. Once that profit level is reached, your split improves and you do not need to maintain that balance.

@Hoag
Thanks a lot for clarifying this.

So, on the other hand one needs probably decent more time to reach the 15k / 30k profit level if a smaller account size is traded.

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 Hoag 
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Futures Operator View Post
@Hoag, or anyone else, could you please explain why the stats are calculated this way, taking the overall average of each trading day, rather the overall average of all trades? Isn't this inaccurate for an overall view of all trades? Just trying to understand.

Futures operator,
Just to clarify, the average winning trades and losing trades are calculated by a running total of all the trades through the Combine. If you have any further questions about how the stats are calculated, feel free to contact us. Trade well.

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 Big Mike 
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 Big Mike 
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https://www.twitter.com/TopstepTrader/status/260882062788153346



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 TrendTraderBH 
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Great video....usually the best advice is the simplest.

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  #286 (permalink)
 lancelottrader 
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I was curious about this program, even though I already trade a decent sized account. I am pretty confident i could meet the profit objectives . However, the subjective criteria such as "time in a winning trade versus a time in a losing trade" is something I'm not comfortable with. It seems to exist to give reasons to reject someone even if they prove to be consistently profitable. What if I catch some explosive moves in CL that yield 50 ticks in a couple of minutes? That happens frequently and I often score those moves as anyone who has followed my thread can attest to. Sometimes I take slower moving trades that might remain 5 or 6 ticks down for a long period of time before finally going on to hit their target..or hit my stop. So I don't see the duration of time in regards to whether one is negative or positive in a trade to be of any importance whatsoever.
The only objective criteria, in my opinion is whether you meet the profit objectives and simultaneously adhere to the drawdown requirements.

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 Big Mike 
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lancelottrader View Post
I was curious about this program, even though I already trade a decent sized account. I am pretty confident i could meet the profit objectives . However, the subjective criteria such as "time in a winning trade versus a time in a losing trade" is something I'm not comfortable with. It seems to exist to give reasons to reject someone even if they prove to be consistently profitable. What if I catch some explosive moves in CL that yield 50 ticks in a couple of minutes? That happens frequently and I often score those moves as anyone who has followed my thread can attest to. Sometimes I take slower moving trades that might remain 5 or 6 ticks down for a long period of time before finally going on to hit their target..or hit my stop. So I don't see the duration of time in regards to whether one is negative or positive in a trade to be of any importance whatsoever.
The only objective criteria, in my opinion is whether you meet the profit objectives and simultaneously adhere to the drawdown requirements.

My understanding is that you could put forth a custom combine plan without this particular metric/criteria, and your reasons for its deletion, and they might approve it.

I also heard Michael say that the number of people that pass a custom combine are far, far fewer than those who take the regular course. This seems to indicate people haven't really tested themselves prior to joining the combine, if they write a custom plan for their own style and still can't pass it...

Mike

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  #288 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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https://www.twitter.com/MichaelPatak/status/261516955884855296

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 mfootlick 
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lancelottrader View Post
I was curious about this program, even though I already trade a decent sized account. I am pretty confident i could meet the profit objectives . However, the subjective criteria such as "time in a winning trade versus a time in a losing trade" is something I'm not comfortable with. It seems to exist to give reasons to reject someone even if they prove to be consistently profitable. What if I catch some explosive moves in CL that yield 50 ticks in a couple of minutes? That happens frequently and I often score those moves as anyone who has followed my thread can attest to. Sometimes I take slower moving trades that might remain 5 or 6 ticks down for a long period of time before finally going on to hit their target..or hit my stop. So I don't see the duration of time in regards to whether one is negative or positive in a trade to be of any importance whatsoever.
The only objective criteria, in my opinion is whether you meet the profit objectives and simultaneously adhere to the drawdown requirements.

lancelottrader, you may submit a request to be evaluated on a customized Combine objective (you may choose to omit or change certain requirements such as the trade duration requirement). More information about how to do that may be found here: TopstepTrader - Where Talent Meets Opportunity. Let me know if you have any other questions!

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 tderrick 
Nashville, Tennessee
 
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mfootlick View Post
lancelottrader, you may submit a request to be evaluated on a customized Combine objective (you may choose to omit or change certain requirements such as the trade duration requirement). More information about how to do that may be found here: TopstepTrader - Where Talent Meets Opportunity. Let me know if you have any other questions!

Hey... another TST guy...

Nice to have a TST presence here at the futures.io (formerly BMT). Thanks @mfootlick


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  #291 (permalink)
 Silvester17 
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lancelottrader View Post
I was curious about this program, even though I already trade a decent sized account. I am pretty confident i could meet the profit objectives . However, the subjective criteria such as "time in a winning trade versus a time in a losing trade" is something I'm not comfortable with. It seems to exist to give reasons to reject someone even if they prove to be consistently profitable. What if I catch some explosive moves in CL that yield 50 ticks in a couple of minutes? That happens frequently and I often score those moves as anyone who has followed my thread can attest to. Sometimes I take slower moving trades that might remain 5 or 6 ticks down for a long period of time before finally going on to hit their target..or hit my stop. So I don't see the duration of time in regards to whether one is negative or positive in a trade to be of any importance whatsoever.
The only objective criteria, in my opinion is whether you meet the profit objectives and simultaneously adhere to the drawdown requirements.

@lancelottrader,

exactly. glad to see I'm not the only one.

and here's another example why that kind of statistic is pointless. you're long, going for 3 points and stop is 1 point. market is moving slowly, you're up 5 ticks and didn't have to take any heat so far. 10 minutes later you're still positive. now something bad happens. the market drops 2 points in a minute and stops you out.

so now you have a losing trade with a duration of 11 minutes. but in fact you were in a winning trade for 10 minutes and a losing trade for 1 minute. hope I'm making sense here.

I might look at the average duration of a trade, but never for a winning / losing trade.

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 Daytrader999 
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tderrick View Post
Hey... another TST guy...

Nice to have a TST presence here at the futures.io (formerly BMT). Thanks @mfootlick

@tderrick
This guy is more of a girl...but anyway, thanks for the info, Melissa.

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 tderrick 
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Daytrader999 View Post
@tderrick
This guy is more of a girl...but anyway, thanks for the info, Melissa.


oops...

well, I certainly won't forget that now...

Sorry, Melissa / @mfootlick and pleased to meet you

I know your company is a business fore most, but I believe it also provides a wonderful
service also. Keep up the great work


AJ
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  #294 (permalink)
 aircal 
Keller, TX USA
 
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I posted in the Bontrade vendor thread that they offer a program that sounds very similar, if not identical - maybe they refer you to TST.

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 Silvester17 
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aircal View Post
I posted in the Bontrade vendor thread that they offer a program that sounds very similar, if not identical - maybe they refer you to TST.

I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of program is growing really fast and popping up everywhere.

interesting business model and risk free.

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 tderrick 
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Silvester17 View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of program is growing really fast and popping up everywhere.

interesting business model and risk free.


I'm telling ya... we should start one here at futures.io (formerly BMT)... just saying


AJ
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 mfootlick 
Chicago, Illinois
 
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aircal View Post
I posted in the Bontrade vendor thread that they offer a program that sounds very similar, if not identical - maybe they refer you to TST.

aircal,

Bontrade has partnered with TopstepTrader to send their members through our program.

Melissa

If you have any questions about TopstepTrader please send me a Private Message or contact us at info@topsteptrader.com or 312.252.9490.
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 mfootlick 
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tderrick View Post
oops...

well, I certainly won't forget that now...

Sorry, Melissa / @mfootlick and pleased to meet you

I know your company is a business fore most, but I believe it also provides a wonderful
service also. Keep up the great work

tderrick,

Thank you for the kind words. It is very encouraging for us hear things like that. It makes all of our hard work over the last 2.5 years worthwhile .

Melissa

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 jamiej83 
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The 1st 2/3 TopStepTrader interviews with Linda Raschke, always good to hear from an articulate 30yr+ vetertan / Market Wizard about mastering the basics -

1/3 - TopstepTrader's Webinar and Q & A Session with Linda Raschke 10-12-12 - YouTube

2/3 - TopstepTrader's Webinar and Q & A Session with Linda Raschke October 26, 2012 - YouTube

Trading is: Having the KNOWLEDGE to know when the odds are in my favour, having the PATIENCE to wait for that moment, then having the DISCIPLINE to handle the trade properly when it goes in my favour and properly when it goes against me
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 HollywoodTrader 
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So, after about a year of trying, on-and-off, to pass the TST combine I finally have -- just barely, the target was $3,500 profit. I first started my combine journey with /ES but a friend got me into /CL and I have been trading that exclusively for about 6 months now. I made this combine in particular much harder for myself by taking a couple of big hits near the end, when I should have been more cautious, but my system/method came through with a big overnight setup that got me over the top. I'm posting this because I know people have a lot of questions about what happens next -- as do I -- so I will attempt to address those questions and well as share my post-combine-success-experience.

Lastly, a couple of notes on the additional parameters that must be met: I had one of my largest Avg Win to Avg Loss spreads to date, one of my largest Win Duration to Loss Duration spreads, and strangely it was the first time my Total Win % was under the 45% threshold -- hey, you only need 2 of 3. My methodology evolved for this combine -- and has even evolved since -- so I'm not sure if this new lower Total Win % is par for the course but whatever shows larger returns in the long run I'm down with. Oh, and, I mostly just use Fibs, no indicators, nothing fancy, just Fibs and theory.

HollywoodTrader


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