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Joel Parker's www.priceactionroom.com review


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Joel Parker's www.priceactionroom.com review

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  #1 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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If you have any experiences about Joel Parker's Welcome to the Price Action Room, please share them. I'm considering asking Joel to do an educational webinar on futures.io (formerly BMT) about trading price action and always like to do my due diligence before inviting a vendor to participate.

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 Big Mike 
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Here is a video snippet of his methodology. Again let me know your thoughts if you know of this guy or if you are a customer past/present.

Excerpt from tape reading mini-mentorship - PriceActionRoom's library

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 tre436 
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Hi Mike - I took Joel's tape reading course and can vouch for his methodology and trading style. It is the only course i have taken so far and feel it was worth the cost.

A lot of traders out there have the skill and experience but are sorely lacking in their ability to communicate this. Joel can def. communicate effectively with very professional videos and is always available to chat if you have any direct questions.

From a tape reading perspective i was blindly going nowhere and his course put me on the right path, i cant say that i am 100% efficient but i have improved immensely with many more years to go to get to Joel's level (if ever).

Biggest thing i took away was the fact the most venders / sellers allude to the holy grail or dangle the dream of riches but Joel did not do this, he said it will take hard work, many months or years for some and some might not even make it as tape readers, a nice reality check.

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 researcher247 
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Yea; um--still seems 'ephemeral' for most of us slobs.

I suspect that this 'tape reading' (HUGE FEES) works on a level for those with a math-orientated/objective mindset.

Not sure if after all the 'stuff' do you really have an edge--or is it just gut/feel/experience/intuition?

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

After all; in huge liquidity markets you are constantly trying to 'game' the other side; if not with order flow--with laggin indicators?

I notice futures.io (formerly BMT) forum members really like divergence and range bars--have not been able to get into that yet.

peace

r247

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  #6 (permalink)
 jrs659 
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As a newbie,I am trying too find something that really will help me see the markets,so for the last few months,I have signed up for a lots of free webinars and free trials,or almost free trials(which a few yrs ago hardly anyone offered)
The more expensive rooms,seems to be getting cheaper and cheaper,but some of them are, buy this and then you need this.. etc...hmm

I know the free webinar I took from Joel,that he is a legit trader and teacher,but he is not giving anything away,,,his room and cd's(not cheap)...but saying that I have learned something from every webinar on futures.io (formerly BMT),and it seems like you get these guys to give out good info, and not just advertizing

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 bluemele 
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Looks interesting.

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 Titan 
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I purchased the November workshop and believe it was well worth it. Joel is a very effective communicator. He is of course knowledgeable on tape reading but offers great commentary on different markets. I'm still going over his material because it was a lot of information to digest. Just my 0.02.

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 ThatManFromTexas 
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Big Mike View Post
Here is a video snippet of his methodology. Again let me know your thoughts if you know of this guy or if you are a customer past/present.

Excerpt from tape reading mini-mentorship - PriceActionRoom's library

Mike

@Big Mike


I do not personally subscribe to his methodology, but I really enjoyed the snippet.

Shakespeare said, " ...tis indeed a sick cook that will not lick her own fingers". I am always suspicious of anyone who teaches "the worlds greatest trading system ", but doesn't trade it himself. He says he trades every day and sounds believable.

Many people who have a trading room ,come off somewhere between Used Car Salesman and Strip Club DJ. He has good communication skills and sounds legit. It appears in the snippet that it was a live trade. That is a "+" in my book.

So, unless someone has derogatory information regarding him, I would say it would be a worthwhile webinar. IMHO

Regards,
TMFT

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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 Trafford 
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A key thing I have not heard is " I purchased the course, practiced what I learnt and made money from my investment."

I wonder why I have not heard that, is it that we are seeking the holy grail and attending courses attempts to fill that void that exits for most if not all traders. Also I am keen to know what specifically people learnt from a course they attended and how it helped their trading as comments received so far have been vague and lack real content about their experiences and how it has helped them in their trading. Am I alone in this?

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 tre436 
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well i haven't expected to suddenly make millions after a few months of doing a course on what is quite a specific topic i.e. "tape reading", as I mentioned i am expecting it to take yrs to get a level of proficiency.

Anyone that says they are profitable directly after taking a course i would seriously doubt, changing how you think is not immediate and can only take years.

One thing i have noticed in the short term is that i am not taking so many losing trades based on what i see on the tape, this is as a direct result of the insight Joel has provided. 6 months ago I would still be taking some of those newbie trades (and losing).



Trafford View Post
A key thing I have not heard is " I purchased the course, practiced what I learnt and made money from my investment."

I wonder why I have not heard that, is it that we are seeking the holy grail and attending courses attempts to fill that void that exits for most if not all traders. Also I am keen to know what specifically people learnt from a course they attended and how it helped their trading as comments received so far have been vague and lack real content about their experiences and how it has helped them in their trading. Am I alone in this?


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 tre436 
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don't forget my experience is about trading off orderflow, quite specialised and not for everyone.



gktk View Post
well i haven't expected to suddenly make millions after a few months of doing a course on what is quite a specific topic i.e. "tape reading", as I mentioned i am expecting it to take yrs to get a level of proficiency.

Anyone that says they are profitable directly after taking a course i would seriously doubt, changing how you think is not immediate and can only take years.

One thing i have noticed in the short term is that i am not taking so many losing trades based on what i see on the tape, this is as a direct result of the insight Joel has provided. 6 months ago I would still be taking some of those newbie trades (and losing).


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 Trafford 
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gktk View Post
don't forget my experience is about trading off orderflow, quite specialised and not for everyone.


Cool, so your objective was to learn orderflow and help you to be more selective with your trade entries and as a result attending Joel's course helped you with your trade selection and entry which resulted in you taking less trades and kept you from taking bad trades. To me this is much better than Joel is nice guy because at the end of the day he is selling something and I wnat to knwo what I will be getting for my money. All traders looking to hone their skills should be asking these questions. Selecting training is as important as selecting trades. Thank you for your input.

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 Lornz 
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I watched a few minutes of the link posted. Using simple trend lines with the tape isn't necessarily a bad thing, it could probably help a few people on this board.

But I always get wary when I see a so-called successful trader using NT?

As for purchasing his course(s), it would be a lot cheaper (and more useful) to read Wyckoff and Humphrey Neill ( Amazon.com: Tape Reading and Market Tactics: The Three Steps to Successful Stock Trading (9781578989157): Humphrey B. Neill: Books )

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 ThatManFromTexas 
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Trafford View Post
Cool, so your objective was to learn orderflow and help you to be more selective with your trade entries and as a result attending Joel's course helped you with your trade selection and entry which resulted in you taking less trades and kept you from taking bad trades. To me this is much better than Joel is nice guy because at the end of the day he is selling something and I wnat to knwo what I will be getting for my money. All traders looking to hone their skills should be asking these questions. Selecting training is as important as selecting trades. Thank you for your input.

If you watch the snippet Big Mike posted the link to, you will get an understanding of his method of trading.

It's not for everyone ... including me. It may not be for you either. But the only way you will know is if you look at what he does.

You never know, even a blind hog finds an acorn occasionally.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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 Trafford 
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
If you watch the snippet Big Mike posted the link to, you will get an understanding of his method of trading.

It's not for everyone ... including me. It may not be for you either. But the only way you will know is if you look at what he does.

You never know, even a blind hog finds an acorn occasionally.

TMFT,

I know what he does and have seen some of his video's but they were more sales pitches. I got the sense that the only true way to find out about the actual content was to buy the course so I was after someone that attended to really break things down about what they actually learnt which I believed was not forthcoming in their responses. I think orderflow is a great way to trade, the purest way to trade if you are a day trader for sure as you get much better trade location and trade with the aggressive traders, in my humble opinion. As I said I am sure Joel's work is great but I was actually wanting a student of his to be more descriptive about their experiences which would also help them to solidify what they have learnt, saying it was a good course is not much help to man nor beast if you get my drift.

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777n
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Ok folks. I wanted to give a first hand experience with Joel's room.

I was eager to get learn price action and tape reading. so naturally, Joel's products looked attractive. Well, I forked over $899.00 for his tape reading bundle. I have never been more sorry and pissed at myself then this purchase.

The course consists of many hours of taped recordings which included some charts and mostly Joel rambling on. All in all, its probably close to 20 hours of recorded rambling. The biggest take away one can learn from the lessons, "Buy when the big institutions are buying and sell when they are selling".

Here is some of the comments that Joel made on his recordings that raises suspicion:

1) I trade 100 lot contracts at a time.
2) One of my trading accounts has a seven digit balance.
3) I offer this program to help people, not to make a living.

If he is doing this to help people, and not to make a living, why is he paying for click advertising ?

Part of his tape reading bundle including 5 days of live trading. But, here's the funny part. He spent the entire time talking. He claimed he would be trading during the 5 days. He didn't place one trade. Not one trade. He claims to be a big trader that trades 100 contracts at a time. But, in five days, during market hours, not one live trade was placed. He didn't even place a simulated trade. He claimed that his preferred setup, never presented itself in the five days. "yeah right".

I give Joel credit. He is a great Salesman. His confidence and his salesmanship are impeccable. i suggest anyone considering his course/s to buy a book. You'll get more out of spending $25 to $35 on a book.

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 Lornz 
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I am sorry for your loss, but it's nice to see the universe is still in order.

There is a reason people become vendors, and it's not because they're killing it in the market.

If only people would spend half as much time researching and trying to understand the mechanics and dynamics of the markets -- as they do searching for someone selling the "holy grail" -- I am quite certain there would be more successful retail traders....

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 bluemele 
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Lornz View Post
I watched a few minutes of the link posted. Using simple trend lines with the tape isn't necessarily a bad thing, it could probably help a few people on this board.

But I always get wary when I see a so-called successful trader using NT?

As for purchasing his course(s), it would be a lot cheaper (and more useful) to read Wyckoff and Humphrey Neill ( Amazon.com: Tape Reading and Market Tactics: The Three Steps to Successful Stock Trading (9781578989157): Humphrey B. Neill: Books )

Lornz,

Do you really believe that a trader can only be successful if they are using your tools? MP/MD or other type of profile indicators?

Would you say the same about Tradestation etc..? Interesting comment.

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Wyckoff Trader
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Lornz View Post
There is a reason people become vendors, and it's not because they're killing it in the market. .

Yep.. always was...always will be

Frequent requests are made for the name of someone who will teach the Art of Tape Reading. I do not know of anyone able to read the tape with profit who is willing to become an instructor. The reason is very simple. Profits from the tape far exceed anything that might be earned by charging tuition fees to his students. Its simple economics…..Richard Wyckoff (aka Rollo Tape)…”Studies in Tape Reading”, 1910

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 cory 
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777n View Post
Ok folks. I wanted to give a first hand experience with Joel's room.

I was eager to get learn price action and tape reading. so naturally, Joel's products looked attractive. Well, I forked over $899.00 for his tape reading bundle. I have never been more sorry and pissed at myself then this purchase.

...

can you get a refund?

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 Lornz 
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bluemele View Post
Lornz,

Do you really believe that a trader can only be successful if they are using your tools? MP/MD or other type of profile indicators?

Would you say the same about Tradestation etc..? Interesting comment.

No, absolutely not. I was referring to the instability of the platform. I wouldn't trust it with my orders. OCO orders are stored locally, which can be extremely hazardous. I did not mean to offend the many NT users on this board.

If you're trading off the DOM, why wouldn't you use X_Trader?
For all other needs, I think CQG is quite sufficient for most retail traders. The data is flawless, and the functionality is vast. But others may have other needs, and will have to take the step up to institutional level platforms.

Let's face it, if you've been trading for 10 years, you should be doing high 6 figures at a minimum. If you're trading futures, which are extremely liquid, you should be making millions after a decade of hard work.

If one has a valid method it is only a matter of time before one has scaled up to a level where such is possible.

If so, why wouldn't you be paying for quality software/data/order routing? It's tax-deductible...

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I'm slightly biased here - but I will put in my 2c anyway.

First my disclaimer: I am the person that suggested Big Mike chat to Joel. I am also a software vendor myself and that came about directly because of what Joel taught me. I am not here to plug myself though.

I was tape reading before I came across Joel. Mostly trading stocks on earnings/news, looking for specific setups and confirming with L2/Tape.

Thing is - I knew there was more to it than I was seeing. I saw Joels site and spent a fair amount of time chatting with him on Skype. He didn't do anything for stocks but had stuff for futures, so I took the plunge.

At the time, Joel also had a trading room. I saw Joel trade every day in that room - losers & winners. Overall he was very profitable and was trading 10-20 contracts per trade. He closed the room in the end because it just became too much of a social venue and we were all missing trades.

Anyway - for me, the tape is now the final arbiter of whether I enter or not. It keeps me out of bad trades and some good ones but overall it is a net benefit. Remember that I was using it anyway, I just didn't get some aspects of it. I had a fair idea what I wanted and when I spoke to Joel, I got the impression that he knew what he was talking about.

To be honest, you have to be a bit of a masochist to want to learn this anyway. Even after learning it, you will need to put in many hours of just watching it.

Joel teaches a number of things for me - it was analysis of DOM in conjunction with Time and Sales that was of most interest. This is the intent vs actual. There's a lot in there about the thought processes you should be going through when you see particular things on the DOM vs T&S. You go through the difference between thick & thin markets too and how spoofing differs in different types of markets. In terms of just the tape, you will be learning about the flow of trades, who's in control, results the trades are getting and an overall feel for interest. There's some drills to train yourself to read the tape and you really do need to put time aside and just watch it for 30 minutes a day before you start to get a feel for it. It is very much a combination of left brain/right brain skills.

There are some specific setups he teaches but to be honest I didn't pay a lot of attention to that as I was really more interested in DOM/T&S to take back to my stock trading. Of course, I never did go back to stock trading in the end but that's a different story.

Note also that whilst Joel doesn't teach this, my opinion is that this is a great compliment to GOMI CD and the lessons from the tape reading can be applied on a 'higher level view' with GOMIs CD.

An afternoon trade - still open at the time of posting. Fake reversal setting up at the adjacent swing to the left. Got in before in before I thought the longs would start to puke.


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777n
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DionyusToast - Wouldn't a full, complete and fair disclosure from you include the fact that when one purchases Joel's products, it includes the T/S indicators that you developed ? Doesn't Joel pass along a fee to you for each indicator he sells for you ? So basically, for every bundle Joel sells, you are directly compensated.


DionysusToast View Post
I'm slightly biased here - but I will put in my 2c anyway.

First my disclaimer: I am the person that suggested Big Mike chat to Joel. I am also a software vendor myself and that came about directly because of what Joel taught me. I am not here to plug myself though.

I was tape reading before I came across Joel. Mostly trading stocks on earnings/news, looking for specific setups and confirming with L2/Tape.

Thing is - I knew there was more to it than I was seeing. I saw Joels site and spent a fair amount of time chatting with him on Skype. He didn't do anything for stocks but had stuff for futures, so I took the plunge.

At the time, Joel also had a trading room. I saw Joel trade every day in that room - losers & winners. Overall he was very profitable and was trading 10-20 contracts per trade. He closed the room in the end because it just became too much of a social venue and we were all missing trades.

Anyway - for me, the tape is now the final arbiter of whether I enter or not. It keeps me out of bad trades and some good ones but overall it is a net benefit. Remember that I was using it anyway, I just didn't get some aspects of it. I had a fair idea what I wanted and when I spoke to Joel, I got the impression that he knew what he was talking about.

To be honest, you have to be a bit of a masochist to want to learn this anyway. Even after learning it, you will need to put in many hours of just watching it.

Joel teaches a number of things for me - it was analysis of DOM in conjunction with Time and Sales that was of most interest. This is the intent vs actual. There's a lot in there about the thought processes you should be going through when you see particular things on the DOM vs T&S. You go through the difference between thick & thin markets too and how spoofing differs in different types of markets. In terms of just the tape, you will be learning about the flow of trades, who's in control, results the trades are getting and an overall feel for interest. There's some drills to train yourself to read the tape and you really do need to put time aside and just watch it for 30 minutes a day before you start to get a feel for it. It is very much a combination of left brain/right brain skills.

There are some specific setups he teaches but to be honest I didn't pay a lot of attention to that as I was really more interested in DOM/T&S to take back to my stock trading. Of course, I never did go back to stock trading in the end but that's a different story.

Note also that whilst Joel doesn't teach this, my opinion is that this is a great compliment to GOMI CD and the lessons from the tape reading can be applied on a 'higher level view' with GOMIs CD.

An afternoon trade - still open at the time of posting. Fake reversal setting up at the adjacent swing to the left. Got in before in before I thought the longs would start to puke.


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 redegenerated 
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there are too many clouded things in here....imho

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777n
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It just disgusts me that Jigsaw Trading would chime in to defend Joel Parker's products without disclosing the fact that Joel Parker is selling his bundles with Jigsaw's Time and Sales indicator.

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 Lmess 
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redegenerated View Post
there are too many clouded things in here....imho

I agree.

It's true that one of the indicators sold at jigsawtrading is included when purchasing one of the bundles from Joel Parker. I believe the other one costs additional money. It would be interesting to know if in the course he uses both and only includes 1 meaning you would have to buy the other one as well.

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 Trafford 
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DionysusToast View Post
I'm slightly biased here - but I will put in my 2c anyway.

First my disclaimer: I am the person that suggested Big Mike chat to Joel. I am also a software vendor myself and that came about directly because of what Joel taught me. I am not here to plug myself though.

I was tape reading before I came across Joel. Mostly trading stocks on earnings/news, looking for specific setups and confirming with L2/Tape.

Thing is - I knew there was more to it than I was seeing. I saw Joels site and spent a fair amount of time chatting with him on Skype. He didn't do anything for stocks but had stuff for futures, so I took the plunge.

At the time, Joel also had a trading room. I saw Joel trade every day in that room - losers & winners. Overall he was very profitable and was trading 10-20 contracts per trade. He closed the room in the end because it just became too much of a social venue and we were all missing trades.

Anyway - for me, the tape is now the final arbiter of whether I enter or not. It keeps me out of bad trades and some good ones but overall it is a net benefit. Remember that I was using it anyway, I just didn't get some aspects of it. I had a fair idea what I wanted and when I spoke to Joel, I got the impression that he knew what he was talking about.

To be honest, you have to be a bit of a masochist to want to learn this anyway. Even after learning it, you will need to put in many hours of just watching it.

Joel teaches a number of things for me - it was analysis of DOM in conjunction with Time and Sales that was of most interest. This is the intent vs actual. There's a lot in there about the thought processes you should be going through when you see particular things on the DOM vs T&S. You go through the difference between thick & thin markets too and how spoofing differs in different types of markets. In terms of just the tape, you will be learning about the flow of trades, who's in control, results the trades are getting and an overall feel for interest. There's some drills to train yourself to read the tape and you really do need to put time aside and just watch it for 30 minutes a day before you start to get a feel for it. It is very much a combination of left brain/right brain skills.

There are some specific setups he teaches but to be honest I didn't pay a lot of attention to that as I was really more interested in DOM/T&S to take back to my stock trading. Of course, I never did go back to stock trading in the end but that's a different story.

Note also that whilst Joel doesn't teach this, my opinion is that this is a great compliment to GOMI CD and the lessons from the tape reading can be applied on a 'higher level view' with GOMIs CD.

An afternoon trade - still open at the time of posting. Fake reversal setting up at the adjacent swing to the left. Got in before in before I thought the longs would start to puke.


DT,

Now this is what I call good feedback.
Many thanks.

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777n View Post
It just disgusts me that Jigsaw Trading would chime in to defend Joel Parker's products without disclosing the fact that Joel Parker is selling his bundles with Jigsaw's Time and Sales indicator.

LOL!

It is indeed dreadful that my disclosure omitted this and I hope I didn't make you physically sick.

It is true he sells my software with his course but here's the interesting thing. Not only does Joel not make 1c from selling my software - it actually costs him money.

He takes payments via paypal. He gets charged 3.5% on the payment. Then he forwards the full amount on to me without deducting the 3.5% he got charged.

The reason for doing this according to Joel - he doesn't need the money and he thinks the tools are helpful for his students. The b@STARd!

See - now you've made me plug the bloody products again - something I told Big Mike I wouldn't do.

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777n
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This is exactly my point. By promoting Joel's product, you were promoting your own indicator without disclosing that. Now you have made it clear that Joel makes nothing off of selling your product. Essentially, you are the one that has a DIRECT interest in this.

In my opinion, and I am sure others would agree, you should have stated up front that you were the direct recipient of anyone who purchase Joel's "Tape Reading Bundle with our new Time & Sales Tool". (since the time and sales tool is yours and you receive the income). But instead, you did not do this.

Full, complete and honest disclosure would have gone a long way and would have made your post, plugging Joel's product/s more credible.

I will state one thing. The T/S indicator you have is a great tool and has once again allowed a trader to get a better measure of the big lot trades. But, I do stand by my original post that Joel Parker's education was fairly empty. The only value I got out of it is this new indicator. The problem is, one doesn't get any useful education to use it that Joel Parker claims in his tape reading program.

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Well in terms of full disclosure - I don't make anything off his training, he doesn't make anything off my software. He does bundle my stuff with his course. Every time I mention my stuff I get closer to getting banned here for plugging it!

Anyway - this stuff takes a lot of practice. As I understand it, the first course where my stuff was included ended 2 or maybe 3 weeks ago.

It took me about 3 months of looking at the tape 1-2 hours a day before I started to really see the light. I purchased a pre-recorded course initially and later on I went on a 1 week mini-mentorship which was also recorded at the time and I downloaded it. It was a combination of practice & listening to the recordings quite a few times that got me to see something in the tape.

The mini-mentorship was 5 days and there is no way I could have actually retained everything that was mentioned in that 5 day period.

Out of interest - did you make your mind up about the contents at the time or when you tried to apply what was taught?

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 bluemele 
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DionysusToast View Post
I'm slightly biased here - but I will put in my 2c anyway.

First my disclaimer: I am the person that suggested Big Mike chat to Joel. I am also a software vendor myself and that came about directly because of what Joel taught me. I am not here to plug myself though.

I was tape reading before I came across Joel. Mostly trading stocks on earnings/news, looking for specific setups and confirming with L2/Tape.

Thing is - I knew there was more to it than I was seeing. I saw Joels site and spent a fair amount of time chatting with him on Skype. He didn't do anything for stocks but had stuff for futures, so I took the plunge.

At the time, Joel also had a trading room. I saw Joel trade every day in that room - losers & winners. Overall he was very profitable and was trading 10-20 contracts per trade. He closed the room in the end because it just became too much of a social venue and we were all missing trades.

Anyway - for me, the tape is now the final arbiter of whether I enter or not. It keeps me out of bad trades and some good ones but overall it is a net benefit. Remember that I was using it anyway, I just didn't get some aspects of it. I had a fair idea what I wanted and when I spoke to Joel, I got the impression that he knew what he was talking about.

To be honest, you have to be a bit of a masochist to want to learn this anyway. Even after learning it, you will need to put in many hours of just watching it.

Joel teaches a number of things for me - it was analysis of DOM in conjunction with Time and Sales that was of most interest. This is the intent vs actual. There's a lot in there about the thought processes you should be going through when you see particular things on the DOM vs T&S. You go through the difference between thick & thin markets too and how spoofing differs in different types of markets. In terms of just the tape, you will be learning about the flow of trades, who's in control, results the trades are getting and an overall feel for interest. There's some drills to train yourself to read the tape and you really do need to put time aside and just watch it for 30 minutes a day before you start to get a feel for it. It is very much a combination of left brain/right brain skills.

There are some specific setups he teaches but to be honest I didn't pay a lot of attention to that as I was really more interested in DOM/T&S to take back to my stock trading. Of course, I never did go back to stock trading in the end but that's a different story.

Note also that whilst Joel doesn't teach this, my opinion is that this is a great compliment to GOMI CD and the lessons from the tape reading can be applied on a 'higher level view' with GOMIs CD.

An afternoon trade - still open at the time of posting. Fake reversal setting up at the adjacent swing to the left. Got in before in before I thought the longs would start to puke.

@DionysusToast could you please help me understand that if the tools you use are profitable, then why the need to sell the 'tools'?

I always find it interesting to see why profitable traders push product and I understand a few, but always skeptical I guess if the people are truly 'profitable'?

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777n
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DionysusToast View Post
Out of interest - did you make your mind up about the contents at the time or when you tried to apply what was taught?

He really didn't teach much at all. A lot of unnecessary fluff. Did you notice he didn't take one live trade in the entire bundle ? He displayed live charts with live DOM and live T/S. But, he didn't take one live real money trade or not even one live simulated trade.. How can one claim to be a tape reader and have a mini mentorship and not take one single trade ? He claims to be this big, 100 lot trader. But, he spends an entire week on a live training session and doesn't take one trade ? He spent the majority of the time looking back on the charts and the tape. Basically, what I would call, "trading in retrospect".

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bluemele View Post
@ DionysusToast could you please help me understand that if the tools you use are profitable, then why the need to sell the 'tools'?

I always find it interesting to see why profitable traders push product and I understand a few, but always skeptical I guess if the people are truly 'profitable'?

@bluemele - it's a fair question given all the crap that's out there. In this case, the tools won't make you profitable. I don't do the red light sell, green light buy thing. I don't sell indicators, just something to make the tape more accessible without dumbing it down. Tape is about 2 things - absorbing the information and interpreting it. I only help with the absorbing part. I had trouble absorbing the info and that is why I wrote the tools for myself.

The only thing that really makes me profitable is me.

In terms of why I sell the tools. I did share with friends initially and they convinced me to go commercial with the products. The original versions were quite unstable but fine for me. My 60 year old friend Dale on the other hand managed to mangle the tools in ways I'd imagined impossible. For a production version to exist, it had to be something I could support with zero effort, otherwise it would become a full time endeavor and as you say - then I'd end up not trading myself.

So - to answer your question:
- I was quite reticent myself as I know that supporting software can suck your time away
- To get around this issue, I got a developer to create something very robust
- I sell software for the same reason I trade - to make money

Note also that when the next product comes out, I do expect it to be copied by the trading platforms. I could have gone the patent route but to be honest - the amount of time that would suck out of me & the amount of hours I'd have to spend with lawyer doesn't make it a good candidate for a 'bit on the side'. As such, I'll be quite happy with the kudos of having done it first.

So - if I'm honest, stroking my ego is also involved.

This thread wasn't meant to be about me. If you want to give this stuff a go and write an honest review, I'm man enough to take anything you throw at me. You can do it by PM if you don't want to help an evil vendor. PM me your Skype id and I'll walk you through this stuff and you can have a play with it - no strings attached.

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 ThatManFromTexas 
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DionysusToast View Post

In terms of why I sell the tools. I did share with friends initially and they convinced me to go commercial with the products.......


... as my friend Charlotte the Harlot told me her mother told her, "Charlotte...never give away anything you can sell ...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
... as my friend Charlotte the Harlot told me her mother told her, "Charlotte...never give away anything you can sell ...

You wouldn't have Charlottes number would you?

Like my father used to say - if it's got tits or wheels - rent don't buy.

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 bluemele 
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DionysusToast View Post
@bluemele - it's a fair question given all the crap that's out there. In this case, the tools won't make you profitable. I don't do the red light sell, green light buy thing. I don't sell indicators, just something to make the tape more accessible without dumbing it down. Tape is about 2 things - absorbing the information and interpreting it. I only help with the absorbing part. I had trouble absorbing the info and that is why I wrote the tools for myself.

The only thing that really makes me profitable is me.

In terms of why I sell the tools. I did share with friends initially and they convinced me to go commercial with the products. The original versions were quite unstable but fine for me. My 60 year old friend Dale on the other hand managed to mangle the tools in ways I'd imagined impossible. For a production version to exist, it had to be something I could support with zero effort, otherwise it would become a full time endeavor and as you say - then I'd end up not trading myself.

So - to answer your question:
- I was quite reticent myself as I know that supporting software can suck your time away
- To get around this issue, I got a developer to create something very robust
- I sell software for the same reason I trade - to make money

Note also that when the next product comes out, I do expect it to be copied by the trading platforms. I could have gone the patent route but to be honest - the amount of time that would suck out of me & the amount of hours I'd have to spend with lawyer doesn't make it a good candidate for a 'bit on the side'. As such, I'll be quite happy with the kudos of having done it first.

So - if I'm honest, stroking my ego is also involved.

This thread wasn't meant to be about me. If you want to give this stuff a go and write an honest review, I'm man enough to take anything you throw at me. You can do it by PM if you don't want to help an evil vendor. PM me your Skype id and I'll walk you through this stuff and you can have a play with it - no strings attached.

Thanks for the honest answer and much appreciated. I will PM you but I am also very interested in you trading in Thailand. My wife and kids are thinking about moving there for a while and I was told trading at night (NY OPEN) is a bit tough because all the kids are sucking the bandwidth for the games etc.. I will PM You.

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bluemele View Post
Thanks for the honest answer and much appreciated. I will PM you but I am also very interested in you trading in Thailand. My wife and kids are thinking about moving there for a while and I was told trading at night (NY OPEN) is a bit tough because all the kids are sucking the bandwidth for the games etc.. I will PM You.

OK - definitely PM me for that as there are some services you can get here that give guaranteed international bandwidth.

I'm running on 2mbps but it's guaranteed & much faster than the 8mbps shared services out there. Of course, this is in Bangkok. In other towns, I'm not sure what you'd get but I could find out.

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777n View Post
He really didn't teach much at all. A lot of unnecessary fluff. Did you notice he didn't take one live trade in the entire bundle ? He displayed live charts with live DOM and live T/S. But, he didn't take one live real money trade or not even one live simulated trade.. How can one claim to be a tape reader and have a mini mentorship and not take one single trade ? He claims to be this big, 100 lot trader. But, he spends an entire week on a live training session and doesn't take one trade ? He spent the majority of the time looking back on the charts and the tape. Basically, what I would call, "trading in retrospect".

Now here's the strange thing.

I spoke to Joel this morning. As I mentioned, my experience is that he's an approachable guy who will give you his time. I mentioned there was a guy from the last 5-day group course that was most unhappy with what he'd got from it. My experience also is that there was a lot of good info in there that takes months to implement and many listens of the course too..

Funny thing is - according to Joel, he's heard no complaint from any student from he course he ran just a couple of weeks ago (the first one that included the tools). It seems also your complaints weren't brought up in the Q&A during the sessions. Considering how vocal you are being on here, that's a strange thing. Have you not considered approaching him directly?

Anyway - I'll make you an offer as you said you'd taken the course with the tools. PM me the machine id of the machine you registered the tools to and I'll refund you the money for the tools. For transparency, put the machine id here (there's no privacy issue with that, no-one can hack you) if you like.

Cheers

Pete

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Just a quick update.

As suspected - no request for a refund was made. Mostly because 777n hadn't taken the recent course/purchased the software in the first place, as claimed.

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DionysusToast View Post
Just a quick update.

As suspected - no request for a refund was made. Mostly because 777n hadn't taken the recent course/purchased the software in the first place, as claimed.

Welcome to the internet....

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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777n
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Well, i would have kept my mouth shut. But, since you wouldn't let it go, I have to respond. You are only promoting your indicator thru Joel. I told you the indicator was decent. I can't ask for a refund from Joel Parker and still expect to keep the indicator for free. Can I ? Look, I was the idiot that trusted Joel Parker and I was the one that paid him his ridiculous training fee. His training is worthless. He claims to be a big lot trader. He's not. That's for certain. There was no value in his training whatsoever. If anyone wants to hear more, they can PM me.

You are promoting Joel Parkers room on your website:

"Joel Parker is closer to most aspiring retail traders than FuturesTrader71. Joel was never in the industry, Joel was a part time trader until he sold his business to daytrade full time, which he has been doing for 8 years. If you are specifically looking for training on Tape Reading and/or Price Action trading, then Joel is the only person we have ever found that provides such in depth training on the subject. This is information that does not exist in any trading books or trading sites. This is information earned the hard way - through study and application. Joel daytrades futures every day, he does this based on price action and tape reading. If you are interested in tape reading/order flow analysis and want to use this as part of your trading method, then Joel is someone you should talk to.There will be no hard sell with Joel. If you tell him what you are looking for and what your expectations are, then he'll tell you if this is something he can help you with. Click Here to go to the site. "

Keep in mind, for every training package that Joel sells, he pays you back the fee for the indicator. You stated on here that you don't make any money off the indicator. You were being misleading again because I know for certain Joel pays you a fee for each license.

You indicated you were the one that recommended Joel's room to Big Mike. Hmm, did you tell him you have an interest in everything Joel sells ? I wonder, did you also recommend "FuturesTrader71" to Big Mike ? I see Big Mike started a thread the same day he started this one. I see on your website you state regarding futurestrader71, "This is a blog with mostly free information on trading.The blog is run by a professional index futures trader, trading out of the Chicago Board of Trade building. He trades for a living and has no other profession. He has his own proprietary trading firm and trains traders at his firm, people that have no prior trading experience. There are a number of free webinars available and there are some that you have to pay a small fee for. The proceeds for the paid webinars go to charity. We have watched them all and they are all well worth the small fee. You could pay thousands of dollars for training from a commercial trainer and still not have anything close the richness and value of information on this site. Click Here to go to the site". I have checked out his blog. There is no free information like you state. Just another vendor out there selling his stuff. And for you to state his fees goes to charity is downright misleading. We all know this not true.

I have a challenge. Find one person, just one person that will post he or she feels like his training was worth the fees he or she paid and he or she learned anything he didn't already know. Find one person that isn't connected to you and Joel. I also challenge you to find anyone that benefited or, felt like what they paid FuturesTrader71 was of any value.

I bet you won't find anyone.

It's a shame there is so much of this B.S. out there. If these guys were so good, then they would be traders and not promoting this crap.

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777n
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Oh, and you are absolutely wrong. I did buy his course and this will prove it. This is one of his emails.

joel@Priceactionroom.com has sent you the following via YouSendIt
Some of you may have already received this download, others haven't. It is being sent to each individual who purchased the bundle which included live training. Since you missed the live training week that just ended, these recording of the sessions will at least tide you over until the next live training week starting July 11.

You will have to log in to the free YouSendIt account you created to access this video - the password is one you created when you downloaded the original Workshop videos. Please download the file, saving it to a location you can easily find. When it is complete, please click on the file to run the extraction program - this will create a new folder in the location you assign it, and will then unpack the video into it.

Once the extraction is complete, please open the folder and use the Click To Play html document to run the video - this will allow it to play with a table of contents. If everything is playing correctly, you can now delete the original installation file (Live Week Day One.exe) , as it no longer necessary.

If you have audio but no video or other playback problems, please see this Screencast recording for assistance: Instructions for workshop recording - PriceActionRoom's library

Thanks,

Joel

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lol - gotta love your efforts here.

Just to recap...

Your claim is that you did a 1 week course and decided it wasn't worthwhile.
You haven't complained to the person who gave the course but complained here instead.
You started complaining within 2 weeks of taking the course, despite the course being in Tape Reading which takes a lot of effort to go from theory to practice with a lot more than 2 weeks screen time.
You wouldn't take me up on the offer of a refund (requiring proof of purchase) because it was too much effort (although a lot less effort than you have spend on this thread so far)

My claim is that you are bogus.
Still - I am willing to accept that you may well just be looking for a quick fix and be upset that no such thing exists.

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777n View Post
Keep in mind, for every training package that Joel sells, he pays you back the fee for the indicator. You stated on here that you don't make any money off the indicator. You were being misleading again because I know for certain Joel pays you a fee for each license.

Breathe deeply. Let the anger go & start reading what is written. Joel doesn't make money from selling my software, he passes the full amount to me. I never claimed I don't make money from the software. Go back, re-read & digest it.


777n View Post
You indicated you were the one that recommended Joel's room to Big Mike. Hmm, did you tell him you have an interest in everything Joel sells ? I wonder, did you also recommend "FuturesTrader71" to Big Mike ? I see Big Mike started a thread the same day he started this one. I see on your website you state regarding futurestrader71, "This is a blog with mostly free information on trading.The blog is run by a professional index futures trader, trading out of the Chicago Board of Trade building. He trades for a living and has no other profession. He has his own proprietary trading firm and trains traders at his firm, people that have no prior trading experience. There are a number of free webinars available and there are some that you have to pay a small fee for. The proceeds for the paid webinars go to charity. We have watched them all and they are all well worth the small fee. You could pay thousands of dollars for training from a commercial trainer and still not have anything close the richness and value of information on this site. Click Here to go to the site". I have checked out his blog. There is no free information like you state. Just another vendor out there selling his stuff. And for you to state his fees goes to charity is downright misleading. We all know this not true.

I have a challenge. Find one person, just one person that will post he or she feels like his training was worth the fees he or she paid and he or she learned anything he didn't already know. Find one person that isn't connected to you and Joel. I also challenge you to find anyone that benefited or, felt like what they paid FuturesTrader71 was of any value.

I bet you won't find anyone.

It's a shame there is so much of this B.S. out there. If these guys were so good, then they would be traders and not promoting this crap.

OK - so both Joel & FuturesTradrer71/FT71 are of no value?

No value to anyone or no value to you perhaps?

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777n
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Jigsawtrading. You have no credibility here. Any vendor who uses the tactics you use to promote his or her wares/s has no credibility and quite frankly, borders on breaking the forum rules.

The only thing I see from you is boasting how good Joel's room is. Nobody else has made such a claim. The thread has been here long enough for anyone that had any good experience to have posted it. Additionally, you have bashed other vendors on futures.io (formerly BMT). Hmm ? I wonder what your motivation is ? Selling your indicator, maybe ?.

My I suggest if you want to build credibility you refrain from bashing other vendors and be more honest in you motivation and your posts. The mere fact that you are so adamant in attempting to discredit me, rings volumes.

You can have the last post. I have to get to sleep because I am a trader. Not a education/indicator seller.

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777n
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Trader's interested in hearing what the facts are about Joel, PM me.

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  #48 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

interesting thread... I will add my 2 cents... I have spoken to Joel, and I have purchased his course material for tape reading... I believe a part of trading is being able to look at the T&S and use it as supporting information for when one approaches price levels to determine if they will hold or fold, and as such I wanted to see some action and make sure that I had the idea correctly in my mind...

one of the thread commenters is correct, tape reading isnt really something that can be taught, it is acquired over time.. I was looking for a shortcut .. ... and there isnt such a thing..

as to his tape reading course... yes, he rambles on for a while (I mean, a lot of the time) which makes it difficult at times to follow... I basically watched the whole thing and then captured the pieces that I cared about and repeated those... I do not think any of the trades on the video were done with real money.. then again, I have only seen John Netto trade with real money, everyone else says they do when in fact they dont, so I was not surprised.

did I learned something that I could use from the videos... that is tough to say... I did find the material of use and I was able to apply it as it refined the ideas that I had... would I have gotten the same experience if I had no clue? I think not...

I should say that at first I went with the 10 days mini-mentor thing... that was a complete waste of time.. but I was able to apply the $500 agains the video course, which managed to cover more of what I was looking for, actual practice and videos of actual tape reading..

I did find some of his other material of use.. but mainly because again, it allowed me to refine some of my own thoughts.. so if you have an idea and want to "validate" it... and I am using that word very loosely.. then go for his videos... if you are brand new 100%.. maybe not so much, read up first books and then decide..

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 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

as an FYI... for those who want to actually read the tape, it is best to use MarketDelta aka InvestorRT for it... why? simple.. it has the ability to aggregate ticks on the same side, live!.. no delays... and it can handle the data without hiccups... no need to pay $250 to have the T&S reconstructed...

check it out... 132 contracts sold... the T&S on the left is aggregating ticks live... while the one is the right is not.. and btw, that is a standard feature on IRT/MD... so you dont need the Pro for it..

forgive my scribbles on the pic, not really an artist

A disclaimer... I am not taking a shot at DT, I think he is a great programmer and had a good idea by ensuring that NinjaTrader had functionality they should've had in the first place.. I just dont believe in re-inventing the wheel.. MD/IRT does an excellent job with the T&S.. and it is a lot more stable than NinjaTrader (still)... not to mention it consumes no resources

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sysot1t View Post
as an FYI... for those who want to actually read the tape, it is best to use MarketDelta aka InvestorRT for it... why? simple.. it has the ability to aggregate ticks on the same side, live!.. no delays... and it can handle the data without hiccups... no need to pay $250 to have the T&S reconstructed...

check it out... 132 contracts sold... the T&S on the left is aggregating ticks live... while the one is the right is not.. and btw, that is a standard feature on IRT/MD... so you dont need the Pro for it..

forgive my scribbles on the pic, not really an artist

A disclaimer... I am not taking a shot at DT, I think he is a great programmer and had a good idea by ensuring that NinjaTrader had functionality they should've had in the first place.. I just dont believe in re-inventing the wheel.. MD/IRT does an excellent job with the T&S.. and it is a lot more stable than NinjaTrader (still)... not to mention it consumes no resources

No worries - there is a slight issue with what IRT does - they do not actually reconstruct trades - just accumulate at a level.

So for the 132 contracts there, you have no idea how many trades that was. If you get a Ninja Trial, you can run the 2 side by side - you'll see the difference immediately.

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 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009


DionysusToast View Post
No worries - there is a slight issue with what IRT does - they do not actually reconstruct trades - just accumulate at a level.

So for the 132 contracts there, you have no idea how many trades that was. If you get a Ninja Trial, you can run the 2 side by side - you'll see the difference immediately.

correct, it accumulates... I dont want to see all the 1's and 2's from retail.. it also enables me to filter size 100+ only, etc... should I really care about how many trades it was to do those 132 contracts? I guess it all depends... I wouldnt mind playing with your product... just sent you a PM..

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sysot1t View Post
I do not think any of the trades on the video were done with real money.. then again, I have only seen John Netto trade with real money, everyone else says they do when in fact they dont, so I was not surprised..

Just a quick note on this - go back and watch the videos again.

You'll see his trades printing off on the Time & Sales....

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sysot1t View Post
correct, it accumulates... I dont want to see all the 1's and 2's from retail.. it also enables me to filter size 100+ only, etc... should I really care about how many trades it was to do those 132 contracts? I guess it all depends... I wouldnt mind playing with your product... just sent you a PM..

Theory...

You get 1000 orders at bid - 1000 prints of 1 lot
You get 1000 orders at ask - 2 prints of 500 lots

An extreme case but simply a matter of having the ability to track small vs large players should you wish to use that information. Obviously - if the little guys are selling and the big guys are buying, it's more bullish.
s

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 bluemele 
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
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The tool you created is pretty cool I have to admit and hopefully something they will automatically program in as it is very very useful!

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bluemele View Post
The tool you created is pretty cool I have to admit and hopefully something they will automatically program in as it is very very useful!

Well - I obviously hope they don't! As a Ninja partner I am hoping they don't jump on the idea If other platforms do - I will be quite flattered. From the start, I didn't got the patent route as this was supposed to be a fun sideline, not a reason to spend time with lawyers. As such - I have to live with people copying it.

There's a 3rd product being worked on right now & then a 4th for spread traders. I think these are the ones that will most likely get copied.

As a rule, I just don't think that many people are interested in time & sales. it's a niche.I don't think many platform providers would bother. Mostly people want something represented graphically.

Also - look at what scalpers focus on - it's mostly the order book with a little focus on the trades going through. I think this is backwards - I think it should be 90% flow of trades and 10% order book but reading the flow of trades through time and sales requires rare skills in my opinion.

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 Trafford 
London, England
 
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sysot1t View Post
as an FYI... for those who want to actually read the tape, it is best to use MarketDelta aka InvestorRT for it... why? simple.. it has the ability to aggregate ticks on the same side, live!.. no delays... and it can handle the data without hiccups... no need to pay $250 to have the T&S reconstructed...

check it out... 132 contracts sold... the T&S on the left is aggregating ticks live... while the one is the right is not.. and btw, that is a standard feature on IRT/MD... so you dont need the Pro for it..

forgive my scribbles on the pic, not really an artist

A disclaimer... I am not taking a shot at DT, I think he is a great programmer and had a good idea by ensuring that NinjaTrader had functionality they should've had in the first place.. I just dont believe in re-inventing the wheel.. MD/IRT does an excellent job with the T&S.. and it is a lot more stable than NinjaTrader (still)... not to mention it consumes no resources

Sysot1t - great posts and very frank.
Interestingly enough I used to use MD but then stopped using it 8 months or so as I never really got to terms with the Footprint chart but liked the Market Profile charts as I studied with Dalton on interpreting MP however I found I can see the same thing using 30 minute candle charts. I then tried IRT primarily to use it for cumulative delta as it was much cheaper than MD as it does not incorporate Footprint charts but yesterday I cancelled my IRT subscription as I found I was not using it. I find Ninja has much better tools written for the it such as Gomi's indicators, which I think are better than MD’s FP indicators, and they are free. I also like the stuff Fat Tails puts out, they are relative and very well written. To get the same in MD/IRT you would need a programmer that is conversant in writing in the code they use which is not easy plus you cannot trade from the charts as easily as you can from Ninja. I also like DionysusToast's indicator as I can follow the T&S much better as prior to that I found T&S too much and did not use it but DT's tools are great and make reading the T&S much much easier.

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 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009


DionysusToast View Post
Theory...

You get 1000 orders at bid - 1000 prints of 1 lot
You get 1000 orders at ask - 2 prints of 500 lots

An extreme case but simply a matter of having the ability to track small vs large players should you wish to use that information. Obviously - if the little guys are selling and the big guys are buying, it's more bullish.
s

hence why I would basically set my size on the MD/IRT filter and have another one show me... I read your documentation and you do it the same way....

I did find the delta column interesting...

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 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

glad to know you like NT7... I prefer to use it, whenever I do, just because of their DOM and ATM, nothing else... other than that... I dont need lots of indicators and all the things that FT and other "put out" to me is a lot of time just noise on the charts... I guess it all depends as to what one is doing and trading style... MD/IRT is simple enough for me to give me what I want with stability... once you start loading other ppls indicators, NT7 is not as stable...

and yes, GOMI's stuff is amazing... as I have said before, NT7 has users mainly because of him.. if he ever decided to write his indis for RightEdge for example, which is pretty decent as well... I am sure that then you would be saying you like RE since GOMI is there and it would all be free...


Trafford View Post
Sysot1t - great posts and very frank.
Interestingly enough I used to use MD but then stopped using it 8 months or so as I never really got to terms with the Footprint chart but liked the Market Profile charts as I studied with Dalton on interpreting MP however I found I can see the same thing using 30 minute candle charts. I then tried IRT primarily to use it for cumulative delta as it was much cheaper than MD as it does not incorporate Footprint charts but yesterday I cancelled my IRT subscription as I found I was not using it. I find Ninja has much better tools written for the it such as Gomi's indicators, which I think are better than MD’s FP indicators, and they are free. I also like the stuff Fat Tails puts out, they are relative and very well written. To get the same in MD/IRT you would need a programmer that is conversant in writing in the code they use which is not easy plus you cannot trade from the charts as easily as you can from Ninja. I also like DionysusToast's indicator as I can follow the T&S much better as prior to that I found T&S too much and did not use it but DT's tools are great and make reading the T&S much much easier.


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 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009


DionysusToast View Post
Just a quick note on this - go back and watch the videos again.

You'll see his trades printing off on the Time & Sales....

hmmm... interesting, but I dont think he ever traded enough contract to show his volume on the T&S... not only that but... you do realize the T&S on Futures is not like equities right? one cant really tell when ones contracts are executed regardles of what size.. unless you have swept all contracts on a given price and that would be major size that I doubt Joel would ever trade..

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 Trafford 
London, England
 
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sysot1t View Post
glad to know you like NT7... I prefer to use it, whenever I do, just because of their DOM and ATM, nothing else... other than that... I dont need lots of indicators and all the things that FT and other "put out" to me is a lot of time just noise on the charts... I guess it all depends as to what one is doing and trading style... MD/IRT is simple enough for me to give me what I want with stability... once you start loading other ppls indicators, NT7 is not as stable...

and yes, GOMI's stuff is amazing... as I have said before, NT7 has users mainly because of him.. if he ever decided to write his indis for RightEdge for example, which is pretty decent as well... I am sure that then you would be saying you like RE since GOMI is there and it would all be free...

You are correct in most what you say and it is hard to disagree with you, not to say that I am looking to do so. I agree NT is a bit flaky, for sure, although it has been okay for a while – touch wood! IRT/MD do have their moments though and are prone to a few hiccups and lots of software updates. I do like MD and was user since 2007, and IRT only recently. The support element is very good with both and much better than NT, Trevor at MD and Chad at IRT but I have found a set of tools and indicators that I can relate to however I only ever trade with them based on market structure and understanding without that I do not even look at indicators. I only look at my indicators to confirm what I see. My edge is in the understanding of the structure of the market place and only then can I look for opportunities. As Van Tharp said “you are only trading your beliefs at the end of the day.”
Victory is in the preparation

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 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

I am more than fine with people disagreeing with me, heck, that is how we all learn... well, most of us anyhow.. and I agree 100% with you about the fact that we trade our views and that indis are to support those views... I do find it to be a pain that IRT/MD pushes out so many updates so often, but what I have found most of the time is that they are either to fix bug or add new features...they are certainly more focused on QA and correcting issues than NT7, but I think that is just an organizational and cultural thing for each company..

if I had my way I would be on CQGIC, but given they dont give the software away for free so that one can learn to use it, I find it hard to have to pay ~2K/month for 3-6 months until I learn completely a new piece of software..

to me that is the main advantage of why so many people use NT7... damn thing is free..


Trafford View Post
You are correct in most what you say and it is hard to disagree with you, not to say that I am looking to do so. I agree NT is a bit flaky, for sure, although it has been okay for a while – touch wood! IRT/MD do have their moments though and are prone to a few hiccups and lots of software updates. I do like MD and was user since 2007, and IRT only recently. The support element is very good with both and much better than NT, Trevor at MD and Chad at IRT but I have found a set of tools and indicators that I can relate to however I only ever trade with them based on market structure and understanding without that I do not even look at indicators. I only look at my indicators to confirm what I see. My edge is in the understanding of the structure of the market place and only then can I look for opportunities. As Van Tharp said “you are only trading your beliefs at the end of the day.”
Victory is in the preparation


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sysot1t View Post
hence why I would basically set my size on the MD/IRT filter and have another one show me... I read your documentation and you do it the same way....

I did find the delta column interesting...

Best thing to do - set them side by side during the US open - you will see the difference.

The two are not the same, if they were, I'd be an IRT user right now!

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 sysot1t 
 
 
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DionysusToast View Post
Best thing to do - set them side by side during the US open - you will see the difference.

The two are not the same, if they were, I'd be an IRT user right now!

never said they were the same... am still playing with the manual.. will do the comparison next week as time permits...

to a mod... please create a new thread for the T&S discussion and move related comments to there... thanks!

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sysot1t View Post
never said they were the same... am still playing with the manual.. will do the comparison next week as time permits...

to a mod... please create a new thread for the T&S discussion and move related comments to there... thanks!

OK - my mistake. In my defence - it is a bit of a shock that someone is actually reading the manual.

One of the users emailed me and said "you know, it'd be cool if you could do xxxxxxx with it".

I had to email him back explaining it did that & was in the manual...

Mind you - I'm the same if I'm honest about it...

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billbdc
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I have enjoyed the courses I have taken by Joel. It certainly takes and will take a bit longer to gain any mastery of reading the Tape but I look forward to utilizing it as a confirmation to entering a trade.

I thoroughly enjoy Joel, his style, and his honesty in explaining his view of the markets and trading.

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 JohnBly 
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777n View Post
I have a challenge. Find one person, just one person that will post he or she feels like his training was worth the fees he or she paid and he or she learned anything he didn't already know. Find one person that isn't connected to you and Joel. I also challenge you to find anyone that benefited or, felt like what they paid FuturesTrader71 was of any value.

I bet you won't find anyone.

It's a shame there is so much of this B.S. out there.

Yes it truly IS shame there is "so much of this B.S. out there" and this poster is generating way more than his fair share.

He just lost his challange too.

I bought Joel's training package in May and did the live week-long training.

Poster says Joel didn't live trade, just talked.
Well, the training was about training, not about watching Joel trade. We were not there to watch Joel trade, but to have him teach us what he knows about tape-reading. So the poster's complaint that Joel didn't live trade is rather strange. In fact early-on in the training Joel specifically asked the group if we wanted him to live trade because he knows some people like that, or go over applying tape-reading to specific setups, and the group chose the latter. We chose to NOT have Joel live trade, but instead teach us how to apply tape-reading to the setups each of us already uses in our own trading. If the poster was there than he already knows this, so what could be his motive for complaining about it?

In my case I was able to ask him to go over how he would use tape-reading in certain reversal situations I trade. He went over that in great detail, in real time, and went back and forth with me in the front of group answering every question and nuance I had. Vastly more valuable to me than merely watching Joel take his own trades.

If you go to trainer to learn to box, do you want to stand there and watch the trainer box?
Or do want the trainer to connect with you and your needs, communicate with you and actually train you to box?

To say that Joel "just talks" is to fail to understand what it takes to actually educate someone. A teacher has to able to converse with the student effectively in a back and forth manner, not just lay some magic technique on and see ya later.

I found Joel to be an excellent teacher and got way more than my money's worth.

To boil down what I have learned from Joel so far: How to apply tape-reading to the setups I already use to filter out some of the losers. For short-term trading, watching the tape can help avoid stepping into the market if the order flow is not favorable. I think we all know what skipping a loser here and there does to one's bottom line.

I look forward to my continued training with Joel Parker.

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 gcabrera 
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I attended Joel tape reading workshop on November 2010 and there he showed us the indicator that TD was making to reconstruct the tape. When he let us know that TD was going to have it available on May and showed us how it was going to work, I purchased the total package with the reconstructed tape.

If you have the videos, you can hear my name ... Gerardo.

Initially, I was looking for help on tape reading after wasting a lot of time on indicators and mentors that really costed me much more than Joel´s package and TD indicator.

I learned a lot with Joel in the first workshop and continued to learn during the live training. Yes, I can say I would have liked to see live trades (and I remember he took one on 6E I guess just to show us his points), but understood that he needed to explain many people there.

The package not only includes the workshops and trainning, but also videos on how to handle fear and how to make a trading plan, which for are very good ones.

I felt I got a lot more that just tape reading, a lot more. I even paid for some indicators based on actual bid and ask transactions that were my holy grail before I understood the unbundling of the big orders and the bot and HFT working to hide their big orders.... I am sorry to say that those indicators are not in my charts anymore after I saw reconstructed tape working.... felt sad to let them go ... but they were not telling me what I needed to hear.

I take the time to thank TD for making these outstanding indicators here.

If you feel you did not get what you expected... Tell Joel and tell us what he told you.

I think he trades live and big size... but that is not important to me. It is important that he cleared a lot of the fog the I had in front and that I am patiently applying to my trading style what he tought us... using TD help there.

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 Big Mike 
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  #69 (permalink)
billbdc
Templeton, CA
 
 
Posts: 4 since Jan 2011
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thank you Gerardo
Good to put an email with a name.

I agree with what Gerardo has said. While I would have like to have seen more live trades I appreciate that Joel's preferred set ups were in large part not there. He likes reversals off of the high or low.

When I contacted Joel prior to the training he was kind enough to offer me a couple of options in taking part in and purchasing the necessary information.

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  #70 (permalink)
 gcabrera 
Santa Tecla, La Libertad/El Salvador
 
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Big Mike View Post
Moderator Notice
Moderator Notice



Mike

Mike: Joel´s webpage is named priceaction room... but mainly what he teaches is Order flow and times and sales interpretation, using the reconstructed tape indicator.

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  #71 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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gcabrera View Post
Mike: Joel´s webpage is named priceaction room... but mainly what he teaches is Order flow and times and sales interpretation, using the reconstructed tape indicator.

Yes I know. This thread is not to discuss order flow or the tape. It is to discuss Joel as a vendor.

Mike

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  #72 (permalink)
 bythegods 
ny
 
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Big Mike View Post
If you have any experiences about Joel Parker's Welcome to the Price Action Room, please share them. I'm considering asking Joel to do an educational webinar on futures.io (formerly BMT) about trading price action and always like to do my due diligence before inviting a vendor to participate.

Mike

Good Morning,

I recently took his class on tape reading and found it informative. Without a doubt more info on the subject than a lot of people who call themselves expert tape readers; although some people have wacky ways of doing things that work for them. I do need more work on the methodology but I must also say that I have been able to catch/and or confirm strength and weakness from the use of the t/s at times. I do not believe it could hurt to have him come in to this very cool forum for traders.

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  #73 (permalink)
mRoss21
Dana Point
 
 
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Hi, I thought I'd share my experience with Joel Parker. I know I'm a little late to the party but I just stumbled across this thread.

About 2 1/2 years ago I took a week long online class taught by Joel Parker. There were 4 of us in the class. At that time Joel was teaching a strategy for trading the NQ. I will admit Joel was extremely knowledgeable about the overall workings of the futures markets and I learned a great deal from him.

His strategy was to fade fib retracements on an 89 tick chart, with a 16 tick stop and a 6 tick first target. The problem was, THE STRATEGY DIDN'T WORK. He claimed that he, and others, had been making big profits with the strategy and that market conditions must have changed enough so that the strategy no longer worked. Come on.... a 16/6 risk/reward... I don't think so.

A few months after that Joel setup a trading room for trading grains. He offered me a free trial. I wasn't interested in trading grains but I did check it out. He sent an email everyday with a very comprehensive fundamental analysis of the grain markets and charts with s/r areas marked. I only spent a few days in the room.

So, now Joel's teaching tape reading. There's an old saying: "those who can trade, do; those who can't, teach."

Anyway... that was 2 1/2 years ago. My own trading is light years ahead of where it was back then. So maybe Joel has finally found his niche.

~Mike

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  #74 (permalink)
 dlatbm 
Sydney Australia
 
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bluemele View Post
The tool you created is pretty cool I have to admit and hopefully something they will automatically program in as it is very very useful!

bluemele
I came across his website recently and cannot help myself to think that he sounds like, and his videos are like(the intro) from your 'friend' at NewFuturesTrading, Henry. He speaks of individuals.
from what mRoss21 says, there was a strong connection
Has anyone else picked on that? Has this been covered and I've missed it?

Also, for others, that do not care whether he does trade or not 100 contracts; it is about his honesty

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  #75 (permalink)
 Jigsaw Trading  Jigsaw Trading is an official Site Sponsor
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dlatbm View Post
bluemele
I came across his website recently and cannot help myself to think that he sounds like, and his videos are like(the intro) from your 'friend' at NewFuturesTrading, Henry. He speaks of individuals.
from what mRoss21 says, there was a strong connection
Has anyone else picked on that? Has this been covered and I've missed it?

Also, for others, that do not care whether he does trade or not 100 contracts; it is about his honesty

Well - you would hope not as the SEC have a restraining order on Henry...

I found this looking for them...
New Futures Trading International Corporation and Henry Roche: Lit. Rel. No. 22159 / November 17, 2011


Quoting 
Roche has raised over $1.3 million from at least 14 investors in nine states through the offer and sale of high yield promissory notes purportedly yielding either 5-10% per month, or a 200% return within 14 months.

Lordy!!


Found this on Youtube...

New Futures Trading - YouTube

You gotta say - that's an epic video...

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  #76 (permalink)
 dlatbm 
Sydney Australia
 
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DionysusToast View Post
Well - you would hope not as the SEC have a restraining order on Henry...

I found this looking for them...
New Futures Trading International Corporation and Henry Roche: Lit. Rel. No. 22159 / November 17, 2011



Lordy!!


Found this on Youtube...

New Futures Trading - YouTube

You gotta say - that's an epic video...

Even if Joel was connected to the that group, that is not a crime and could be even beneficial. I was just amazed about similarities of mannerism in speech and video production and I know bluemele was more involved with NFT that is why I was looking for his view. The topic here is the priceactionroom.com review, as you know it, and my comments/observations, in relation to the topics are just that, nothing else.
Thanks

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  #77 (permalink)
 joaobucks   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 37 since Jan 2010
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I am deciding whether paying a couple grand on Joel's course. If he does trade 100 contracts, it should be more than his word; it requires proof before I know he's the real deal that deserves my hard-earned money. Would I go on a date with a girl who claims to be Cinderella and no proof? Only on cyber dating!

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  #78 (permalink)
 sands 
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I'm thinking about purchasing from JP, however I've not found enough promotional materials to justify the price charged. The prime reason being a personal one, that I'm not one to just throw money at vendors unless they can justify value to me.

Many vendors will often promote their product saying that its worth x thousands of $'s however that's them saying it of course they'd say that, I think to JP's credit he doesn't do that. From my review of what I could find is that this vendor teaches an interesting topic and he knows his stuff.

However, personally though I feel the publicity and structure of what I'd be buying is not advertised well enough at this point. If I'm buying education or a product I need to see it and understand it in some way in advance. Clearly it's challenging to promote education as it's less tangible software - in that you're trying to sell a methodology as opposed to a tool, however I think you can do it as other vendors in this space have done with some success.

I think what's called for is futures.io (formerly BMT) webinar!! @Big Mike is this possible?

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  #79 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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sands View Post
I think what's called for is futures.io (formerly BMT) webinar!! @Big Mike is this possible?

No, hundreds of vendors want to do webinars on futures.io (formerly BMT). My official stance is no, absolutely not. I have made exceptions only a few times, with a "not so great" track record that makes me not want to do it again for the most part.

Mike

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  #80 (permalink)
 Itchymoku 
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sands View Post
Many vendors will often promote their product saying that its worth x thousands of $'s however that's them saying it of course they'd say that, I think to JP's credit he doesn't do that. From my review of what I could find is that this vendor teaches an interesting topic and he knows his stuff.

I think the value really comes from the ability to verify that other people are making money with the system.

My two cents is that if you're really thinking about sinking the money into it, you should perhaps contact some of the people who've bought the system and see if they've been able to consistently make money through it's use. If all you see is good reviews and no ability to contact the users making the reviews it should be obvious what's going on. I've never bought a system but if I were interested that's probably what I'd do is see if others are really making money live. Just because the actual teacher is able to verify that they're making consistent making money doesn't mean that anyone is going to make money using their system if he doesn't have the ability to accurately articulate what he's doing so it's able to be replicated. So take that into account.

Take note I haven't read this thread or anything about this vendor, I just wanted to comment on this post because I had that thought about contact that might help.

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DT I'm on the floor watching this one lol


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  #81 (permalink)
 sands 
London + UK
 
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Big Mike View Post
No, hundreds of vendors want to do webinars on futures.io (formerly BMT). My official stance is no, absolutely not. I have made exceptions only a few times, with a "not so great" track record that makes me not want to do it again for the most part.

Mike

Fair enough, I understand and that's one of the things I love is that the community doesn't have a promotional culture (I've certainly, as all of us seen some v bad vendors out there and am very cautious by default). I only ask seeing that you've done a number of vendor presentations previously in 2014 and see an upcoming vendor presentation (as per the webinar section - Optimus, VeloxPro, FuturePath, etc). I wanted to know more about the quality of education, as really the feedback in this thread wasn't clear enough for me to review (e.g., the topic of order flow analysis which my interest and certainly not a system).

Perhaps posed alternatively @Big Mike, would it be possible to have a presentation from an experienced member/trader on a practical approach to tape / order book reading (similar to what's been done on other topics historically here but focuses on this topic)? Note: On top of what is already posted on futures.io (formerly BMT) that I have seen and found informative.

Also given your reply, what kind of content can we expect in future webinars, non vendor only? or what kind of vendors? I'm interested because I don't want to to see promotion for promotion sake, e.g., I can look up brokers services and data services myself, what I'm looking for is educational materials on topics concerning relevant developments in the industry and innovation.

Sand.

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  #82 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Those are fully vetted sponsors. Read the upcoming webinars thread for other webinars.

Sent from my LG Optimus G Pro

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  #83 (permalink)
 sands 
London + UK
 
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Itchymoku View Post
I think the value really comes from the ability to verify that other people are making money with the system.

My two cents is that if you're really thinking about sinking the money into it, you should perhaps contact some of the people who've bought the system and see if they've been able to consistently make money through it's use. If all you see is good reviews and no ability to contact the users making the reviews it should be obvious what's going on. I've never bought a system but if I were interested that's probably what I'd do is see if others are really making money live. Just because the actual teacher is able to verify that they're making consistent making money doesn't mean that anyone is going to make money using their system if he doesn't have the ability to accurately articulate what he's doing so it's able to be replicated. So take that into account.

Take note I haven't read this thread or anything about this vendor, I just wanted to comment on this post because I had that thought about contact that might help.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

DT I'm on the floor watching this one lol


Thanks for the feedback @Itchymoku, it's very sound advice. Myself, I've never bought a system in my life and 100% not looking for a system. I very much believe that owns methodology should be on their own beliefs and research not following a light sent from heaven (as with most 'gurus'). If I wasn't clear my impetus is, that I'm just looking to find quality materials on order flow which is scarce out there.

As you've said you didn't read the full thread, I'd just add that for me the feedback didn't cover the materials +/- qualities subjectively for sufficient review of value but rather it did qualitatively. So I found myself still asking what is the product, never a premise I would spend money on personally.

I've probably spent more on futures.io (formerly BMT) membership than any tool in my history. Great advice on due diligence in itself. :-)

Sand.

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  #84 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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sands View Post
I'm thinking about purchasing from JP, however I've not found enough promotional materials to justify the price charged. The prime reason being a personal one, that I'm not one to just throw money at vendors unless they can justify value to me.

Many vendors will often promote their product saying that its worth x thousands of $'s however that's them saying it of course they'd say that, I think to JP's credit he doesn't do that. From my review of what I could find is that this vendor teaches an interesting topic and he knows his stuff.

However, personally though I feel the publicity and structure of what I'd be buying is not advertised well enough at this point. If I'm buying education or a product I need to see it and understand it in some way in advance. Clearly it's challenging to promote education as it's less tangible software - in that you're trying to sell a methodology as opposed to a tool, however I think you can do it as other vendors in this space have done with some success.

I think what's called for is futures.io (formerly BMT) webinar!! @Big Mike is this possible?


Sands -

Just go through this thread, and contact everyone who said they used the system via PM. See who responds, and what they say. Since this thread started 3 years ago, you might find many people are gone from futures.io (formerly BMT), which should tell you something - they may be out of trading, or they may have retired off the profits. In any event, the results of your PM survey should tell you a lot...

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  #85 (permalink)
 sands 
London + UK
 
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kevinkdog View Post
Sands -

Just go through this thread, and contact everyone who said they used the system via PM. See who responds, and what they say. Since this thread started 3 years ago, you might find many people are gone from futures.io (formerly BMT), which should tell you something - they may be out of trading, or they may have retired off the profits. In any event, the results of your PM survey should tell you a lot...

Good advice as always Kevin. I think more of the former than the latter perhaps. The people I've spoken to already are mixed in their reviews, will take your advice and see what info I can dig up..

Also, I've decided to call the vendor directly and see what I can find out.

Thanks,

Sands.

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  #86 (permalink)
 sands 
London + UK
 
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A brief follow up.

I ended up not buying the materials discussed here. I'm generally not a fan of unspecific materials when trying to learn something new anyway and found far too many comments not only this specific vendor but that this topic generally was more an art than a science. But given this is how the big boys all do business it's something I felt deserved more of my time to educate myself on. So given my conclusions I decided to learn the subjects from scratch myself, and so far successfully.

There's an old saying 'learn by doing', its very true in my experience. I believe you get to quality understanding best by not trying to take short cuts.

my 2c.

Sands.

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  #87 (permalink)
 JohnBly 
San Anselmo, Calif.
 
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I have taken Joel Parker's training in the past.

He truly advanced my understanding of the market and how to trade it using the Tape.

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  #88 (permalink)
 geth03 
Cologne+Germany
 
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anyone already making Money with Joel parkers tape reading methods?

i watched the T&S for a while now and i dont know

just numbers flashing by, different sizes up and down



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