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www.theoilmoney.com and www.eminipivottrading.com
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www.theoilmoney.com and www.eminipivottrading.com

  #21 (permalink)
Elite Member
Monterey, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 80 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 28 given, 91 received

Scott

I'll try to keep this brief, as I think it'll be my first truly negative post on futures.io (formerly BMT), and one of the reasons I so love these forums is the fact that negativity is kept to such a minimum, and positivity/encouragement usually carry the day.

However, I think there is a time and place for being critical and negative, and this strikes me as the best example of that.

I had some dealings with Scott awhile back, unfortunately, through a friend that was claiming there might be some potential to his 'Oil Well' tool. This friend isn't the type to be easily drawn into hype trains or scams, and as shrewd and off-putting as the website was, as well as all I could gather from the man himself (Scott), I struggled to keep an open mind, knowing that absolutely anyone can stumble upon something of value. . and that perhaps that was the case here. Perhaps in his list of 'slop' products, he had accidentally stumbled upon something that was having reasonable success. .

My associate had documented his live trades with this tool for many months, and the data pool was growing, so I was willing to take a look. I purchased, and also contacted him, almost immediately, asking if I could get more info about what the indicator/trading-trigger was actually doing, wanting to know the actual logic behind what causes a 'trigger'. I was in the stage of testing anything and everything out there, the goal being to retain the concepts that seem to have some testable/repeatable success, and discard everything else, and thus move further down my own path in my trading career.

When I reached out to Scott, I told him a bit about my setup, my thought processes in regards to the markets, etc. Namely, that I like to exhaustively test every concept, over data pools and time periods as large as possible. . . a straight-forward, objective test, showing that 'if I had acted upon every single trigger produced, exactly according to the manner in which the site/product seems to describe, approximately how much would I earn/lose, per trade'. This approach, of course, has the benefit of stripping away all BS, and objectively and definitively measuring the strength and predictivity of the core logic itself. I had my associates excel data for his live trades stretching back almost a full year, but I wanted a far larger data pool than this. So, when I reached out, I made him this deal. . . I told him I have the means to exhaustively test his ideas, at least over the past decade, in an objective manner, and that this is all I wanted to do. If it did even better than breakeven, after slippage and commissions, I would not only refer several associates his way, but I'd post on a forum or two that I'd tried his tool, and it HAD been profitable, over a long period of time, and seems to actually work. I even tried to sweeten the deal, by saying that I would stay mum if his product proved to be unprofitable, unless asked directly, and that I'd just toss it on the scrap heap of all of the other snake oil crapshoot products, and move onward (I didn't use those words, of course, I do try to be civil!).

The way he reacted to this let me know pretty definitively that he had zero faith in his product, and I could tell he hadn't tested it, in any objective way, and didn't care to do so. . . is simply didn't matter to him. And this, in a nutshell, is Scott Morris. . and I have to say, speaking honestly, this type of individual makes my skin crawl, and it very much bothers me hearing anyone defend him by saying 'hes a marketer'. I think the translation of this sentence, in this case, is 'hes a liar, but an effective one, and willing to do so for financial gain'. I'm struggling to understand how this could possibly be tolerable, to anyone. Here is a man who knows, full well, that nothing he's selling has any substance, worth, true predictive value. . and furthermore, that he is preying on the overly trusting, and knowingly hurting them financially, sometimes to an extreme degree. . and he has done this for YEARS, and only seems to be increasing the pace (I've stayed subscribed to his email list, for the same reasons that one slows down to view a car wreck. . . I find myself sickly fascinated).

I have zero tolerance for this type, and I felt the need to voice my opinion here. . . and I sincerely hope that actions like this are never tolerated under the umbrella of 'marketing'. I don't know how unique I am in this, but I can hardly think of a more ignoble and dishonest and manipulative act than aggressively marketing products you know full well will lose money for those who purchase it. As an individual, the best I can do is keep people like this at arm's length, but I sincerely hope that someday he is prosecuted for his fraud. If this is what being in 'marketing' is like, I honestly don't know how those involved in such a pursuit can sleep soundly at night. . .

Ok, back to positive-mode I go!

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  #22 (permalink)
Elite Member
Auckland
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker/Data: Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: CL and ES
 
Posts: 710 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 3,715 given, 661 received

Ninja Trader wake up

@NinjaTrader and Ray
Wake up with some sense of respect to yourself and off course to your own company and Ray you must take this seriously as association with Scott Morris clearly shows your vetting process is flawed and you only care about how many partners you get and thus get new clients
Seriously Ray you need to front up and show true leadership here
You hurting people here with your continued association

Sharmas

Dionysus View Post
I'll try to keep this brief, as I think it'll be my first truly negative post on futures.io (formerly BMT), and one of the reasons I so love these forums is the fact that negativity is kept to such a minimum, and positivity/encouragement usually carry the day.

However, I think there is a time and place for being critical and negative, and this strikes me as the best example of that.

I had some dealings with Scott awhile back, unfortunately, through a friend that was claiming there might be some potential to his 'Oil Well' tool. This friend isn't the type to be easily drawn into hype trains or scams, and as shrewd and off-putting as the website was, as well as all I could gather from the man himself (Scott), I struggled to keep an open mind, knowing that absolutely anyone can stumble upon something of value. . and that perhaps that was the case here. Perhaps in his list of 'slop' products, he had accidentally stumbled upon something that was having reasonable success. .

My associate had documented his live trades with this tool for many months, and the data pool was growing, so I was willing to take a look. I purchased, and also contacted him, almost immediately, asking if I could get more info about what the indicator/trading-trigger was actually doing, wanting to know the actual logic behind what causes a 'trigger'. I was in the stage of testing anything and everything out there, the goal being to retain the concepts that seem to have some testable/repeatable success, and discard everything else, and thus move further down my own path in my trading career.

When I reached out to Scott, I told him a bit about my setup, my thought processes in regards to the markets, etc. Namely, that I like to exhaustively test every concept, over data pools and time periods as large as possible. . . a straight-forward, objective test, showing that 'if I had acted upon every single trigger produced, exactly according to the manner in which the site/product seems to describe, approximately how much would I earn/lose, per trade'. This approach, of course, has the benefit of stripping away all BS, and objectively and definitively measuring the strength and predictivity of the core logic itself. I had my associates excel data for his live trades stretching back almost a full year, but I wanted a far larger data pool than this. So, when I reached out, I made him this deal. . . I told him I have the means to exhaustively test his ideas, at least over the past decade, in an objective manner, and that this is all I wanted to do. If it did even better than breakeven, after slippage and commissions, I would not only refer several associates his way, but I'd post on a forum or two that I'd tried his tool, and it HAD been profitable, over a long period of time, and seems to actually work. I even tried to sweeten the deal, by saying that I would stay mum if his product proved to be unprofitable, unless asked directly, and that I'd just toss it on the scrap heap of all of the other snake oil crapshoot products, and move onward (I didn't use those words, of course, I do try to be civil!).

The way he reacted to this let me know pretty definitively that he had zero faith in his product, and I could tell he hadn't tested it, in any objective way, and didn't care to do so. . . is simply didn't matter to him. And this, in a nutshell, is Scott Morris. . and I have to say, speaking honestly, this type of individual makes my skin crawl, and it very much bothers me hearing anyone defend him by saying 'hes a marketer'. I think the translation of this sentence, in this case, is 'hes a liar, but an effective one, and willing to do so for financial gain'. I'm struggling to understand how this could possibly be tolerable, to anyone. Here is a man who knows, full well, that nothing he's selling has any substance, worth, true predictive value. . and furthermore, that he is preying on the overly trusting, and knowingly hurting them financially, sometimes to an extreme degree. . and he has done this for YEARS, and only seems to be increasing the pace (I've stayed subscribed to his email list, for the same reasons that one slows down to view a car wreck. . . I find myself sickly fascinated).

I have zero tolerance for this type, and I felt the need to voice my opinion here. . . and I sincerely hope that actions like this are never tolerated under the umbrella of 'marketing'. I don't know how unique I am in this, but I can hardly think of a more ignoble and dishonest and manipulative act than aggressively marketing products you know full well will lose money for those who purchase it. As an individual, the best I can do is keep people like this at arm's length, but I sincerely hope that someday he is prosecuted for his fraud. If this is what being in 'marketing' is like, I honestly don't know how those involved in such a pursuit can sleep soundly at night. . .

Ok, back to positive-mode I go!


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  #23 (permalink)
Elite Member
Boise, ID USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: oil
 
Posts: 45 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 43 given, 101 received

Scott



Dionysus View Post
I have zero tolerance for this type, and I felt the need to voice my opinion here. . . and I sincerely hope that actions like this are never tolerated under the umbrella of 'marketing'. I don't know how unique I am in this, but I can hardly think of a more ignoble and dishonest and manipulative act than aggressively marketing products you know full well will lose money for those who purchase it. As an individual, the best I can do is keep people like this at arm's length, but I sincerely hope that someday he is prosecuted for his fraud. If this is what being in 'marketing' is like, I honestly don't know how those involved in such a pursuit can sleep soundly at night. . .

Great post. Just to be clear, when I had been ripping on this 'oilmoney' in my earlier posts, I did attempt to offer a little bit of more positive observations when he was peddling Aldo Lagrutta. As far as knowledge and education, I felt Aldo was decent but that was the only positive thing I could say about Scott. Unfortunately, Aldo is VERY low key and a very difficult guy to PUSH I think. He is not a HYPE guy so that didn't work out. He is now finding people willing to say whatever needs to be said to push product.

When I mentioned he was a 'good marketer', I meant it for everything it is worth. Unfortunately, most brilliant marketers are liars at one level or another. It is the nature of being a marketer. Whether you are grossly exaggerating the truth, omitting a great deal of very relevant information, or just outright lying, marketing is hardly a field where integrity is an ingredient. Trying to find a marketer that has integrity is like trying to find an injury or criminal attorney with real ethics. It is a myth.

Having said that, if we were to analyze the hundreds of people in this space peddling garbage, I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say over 98% are in fact garbage. The MOST successful peddlers are the best marketers, period. They make strong money peddling the 'dream'.

Scott is an excellent marketer of garbage. He is now touting live seminars he charges several thousands for in both Austin and Vegas and says he limits his class to 15. Well 15 times $4000 for example, is $60,000! Do that once a month on top of your product sales and you have a heck of a business! He even does the video testimonials from class members, during the seminar, which as far as marketing goes, is extremely effective. I admire his marketing abilities. I don't admire what he markets.

His style of marketing is stellar as far as marketing goes in this day and age as far as putting a lot of videos out there and developing mailing lists etc..

Does he trade? No! Does he care? No! do people like him rationalize why something doesn't work for 'CERTAIN PEOPLE'... ABSOLUTELY... He did the same peddling real estate seminars. That arena is every bit as scum baggery as trading is... The PROMISE OF EASY MONEY available to EVERYONE and ANYONE can do it! Who doesn't want that? This market will continue to attract a lot of EXTREMELY unethical people. It is very unfortunate but it is what it is.

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  #24 (permalink)
Elite Member
Monterey, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 80 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 28 given, 91 received


Kujo View Post
Great post. Just to be clear, when I had been ripping on this 'oilmoney' in my earlier posts, I did attempt to offer a little bit of more positive observations when he was peddling Aldo Lagrutta. As far as knowledge and education, I felt Aldo was decent but that was the only positive thing I could say about Scott. Unfortunately, Aldo is VERY low key and a very difficult guy to PUSH I think. He is not a HYPE guy so that didn't work out. He is now finding people willing to say whatever needs to be said to push product.

When I mentioned he was a 'good marketer', I meant it for everything it is worth. Unfortunately, most brilliant marketers are liars at one level or another. It is the nature of being a marketer. Whether you are grossly exaggerating the truth, omitting a great deal of very relevant information, or just outright lying, marketing is hardly a field where integrity is an ingredient. Trying to find a marketer that has integrity is like trying to find an injury or criminal attorney with real ethics. It is a myth.

Having said that, if we were to analyze the hundreds of people in this space peddling garbage, I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say over 98% are in fact garbage. The MOST successful peddlers are the best marketers, period. They make strong money peddling the 'dream'.

Scott is an excellent marketer of garbage. He is now touting live seminars he charges several thousands for in both Austin and Vegas and says he limits his class to 15. Well 15 times $4000 for example, is $60,000! Do that once a month on top of your product sales and you have a heck of a business! He even does the video testimonials from class members, during the seminar, which as far as marketing goes, is extremely effective. I admire his marketing abilities. I don't admire what he markets.

His style of marketing is stellar as far as marketing goes in this day and age as far as putting a lot of videos out there and developing mailing lists etc..

Does he trade? No! Does he care? No! do people like him rationalize why something doesn't work for 'CERTAIN PEOPLE'... ABSOLUTELY... He did the same peddling real estate seminars. That arena is every bit as scum baggery as trading is... The PROMISE OF EASY MONEY available to EVERYONE and ANYONE can do it! Who doesn't want that? This market will continue to attract a lot of EXTREMELY unethical people. It is very unfortunate but it is what it is.


Aye, certainly didn't mean to come down on you, Kujo. . you made valid points.

I do believe there are some 'marketers' out there who actually believe in their product, and have a reason to. . . bothers me that 'marketer' now seems to be a synonym of 'liar', and I think they're so often let off of the hook by saying they're merely good at what they do.

Scott is far from brilliant, in my opinion, as many of his spam marketing emails to me are long drawn out novels berating his enemies (like aldo), and seem childish and angry. . . I think the key to his success is that hes just incredibly aggressive, and absolutely shameless.

Anyyhow, I've said enough on this topic. . no more negativity from me. Just wanted to make sure you knew, Kujo, that the post wasn't meant to reflect negatively on you in the least, and I strongly agree with most of your points.

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  #25 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Montréal, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TWS (IB), NinjaTrader 7
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: CL and GC. NOT YM, nor NQ, nor TS. And certainly not ES!
 
Posts: 23 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 9 given, 6 received

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https://futures.io/beginners-introductions/1-introduce-yourself-here-734.html#post634524

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