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DOM Sphere for NinjaTrader (www.domsphere.com)


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DOM Sphere for NinjaTrader (www.domsphere.com)

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  #1 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Ran across this today almost by accident when doing some Google search.

Basically it is an advanced DOM add-on for NinjaTrader. Anyone use it or have experience with it or the company?



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 Devil Man 
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I just downloaded it..........diggin' the volume histogram and mini distribution columns!

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 AHALPERN 
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I will download it and report back.

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 lolu 
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Big Mike View Post
Ran across this today almost by accident when doing some Google search.

Basically it is an advanced DOM add-on for NinjaTrader. Anyone use it or have experience with it or the company?



Mike

I receive an error message when I submit an entry order (see my attached screenshot). I'm on Market Replay; could the Market Replay mode be the cause of the error message.

Is your screenshot on your Real-time live data-feed ?

Lolu



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gary at domsphere
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Hi everyone,

The error reported by lolu is a known issue, caused when changing exchanges in NT instruments manager.
This and another issue which happens with some instruments are already fixed.
We are finishing testing and will be uploading a fixed version in the next few days.

Thanks you for using DOMSphere and don't hesitate to contact our support if you experience problems.

Gary

Senior DOMSphere developer

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  #7 (permalink)
 monpere 
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gary at domsphere View Post
Hi everyone,

The error reported by lolu is a known issue, caused when changing exchanges in NT instruments manager.
This and another issue which happens with some instruments are already fixed.
We are finishing testing and will be uploading a fixed version in the next few days.

Thanks you for using DOMSphere and don't hesitate to contact our support if you experience problems.

Gary

Senior DOMSphere developer

Does this product fall under the Trading Technologies static DOM patent?

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 GoldStandard 
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monpere View Post
Does this product fall under the Trading Technologies static DOM patent?

Just got it installed on a ninja demo account and I notice that it does center itself, like a dynamic DOM, but it does so very very slowly, in small increments. Looks like they may have found a clever way to provide a useable DOM without violating the TT patent.

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 monpere 
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GoldStandard View Post
Just got it installed on a ninja demo account and I notice that it does center itself, like a dynamic DOM, but it does so very very slowly, in small increments. Looks like they may have found a clever way to provide a useable DOM without violating the TT patent.

Bingo! Screw TT. I don't use a DOM, but I will buy this product, just to support that company, and stick it to TT and their patent It's about time someone ended the TT reign of terror with their static DOM patent.

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  #10 (permalink)
 MetalTrade 
 
 
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monpere View Post
Bingo! Screw TT. I don't use a DOM, but I will buy this product, just to support that company, and stick it to TT and their patent It's about time someone ended the TT reign of terror with their static DOM patent.

There is no TT terror, It's because of creativity, entrepeneurship and hard work that all you guys can look at a bloody DOM !!

I love my X-trader Depth of market with all his fantastic extra features, and screw all you abusing the TT's patent

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 monpere 
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MetalTrade View Post
There is no TT terror, It's because of creativity, entrepeneurship and hard work that all you guys can look at a bloody DOM !!

I love my X-trader Depth of market with all his fantastic extra features, and screw all you abusing the TT's patent

Just wait a few months, as soon as this company goes production and starts making a little money, it will get on TT's radar screen, and they will swoop down like a hawk with threats of litigation, even though the product may technically abide by the patent. And guess what, being a small company, they know they would not survive the litigation costs being brought down by the 300lbs gorilla. Their only option to stay in business will be to make their customers pay the TT fees. Another small company gets raped, we the customers get raped. "Bend over and take it"

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 MetalTrade 
 
 
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But tell me monpere, didn't they just copied the dom created by TT ?

I can't believe that some guys believe that should deserve some credit.

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 monpere 
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MetalTrade View Post
But tell me monpere, didn't they just copied the dom created by TT ?

I can't believe that some guys believe that should deserve some credit.

Sure they copied it. Didn't NT copy chart trader from TradeMaven, Didn't Gomi copy the volume ladder from Market Delta? Didtn't whoever uses Market profile copy it from some body else? Didn't someone copy ATM's from somebody else? Didn't TT copy candlestick charts that move from right to left from someone else? How much are they paying for that? Didn't every product out there copy something from somebody else? Were not those ideas original? Aren't all those ideas making money for many companies without resorting to extortion?

Again, I am asking, if everyone who came up with every one of those original ideas had the TT mentality, and asked a fee for every product who used those original ideas, how much do you think it would cost you to put on 1 trade? My protest is against the stifling and heavy handed nature of TT, but the legal system which allows them to claim that anyone displaying clickable static numbers vertically on a screen has to pay a fee, is just ridiculous.

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 MetalTrade 
 
 
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OK monpere, please answer this :

you create something
you design something
you are the only one
you worked hard on it
you worked really hard on it
you sell it
you have an edge on your competition because of it
--
they just copy it

please tell me how you would feel ? what would you do if you had the power ?

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 monpere 
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MetalTrade View Post
OK monpere, please answer this :

you create something
you design something
you are the only one
you worked hard on it
you worked really hard on it
you sell it
you have an edge on your competition because of it
--
they just copy it

please tell me how you would feel ? what would you do if you had the power ?

You need to ask that question to the people that TT copied scrolling candlestick charts from, and bracket orders, and indicators at the bottom of a chart from, and... etc. I'm not saying they don't have the right to do it, I'm just saying they do it because they are greedy blood suckers, and I will not support a company with that mentality.

Plenty of companies have come up with innovative stuff that they worked hard on, they make money by making sure that their product is the best at it. All of these other companies could have gotten patents and charge every body and their sister for using the idea, but they are not greedy opportunists. Now, Ninjatrader needs to get a patent on ATM's and make TT pay for using bracket orders.

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 cory 
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TT is able to charge a fee because they had audacity to file pattern for a common interface and some how got it approved, dumb luck I guess.

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 Trafford 
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AHALPERN View Post
I will download it and report back.


Anyone found this new DOM useful?

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 ThatManFromTexas 
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Trafford View Post
Anyone found this new DOM useful?

@Gary at domsphere

I downloaded it and tried it in SIM.

Pro:

Easy to add or delete columns,

When using their version of "ATM", it shows where the stops will be dynamically before you place an order

Volume with options to see the numbers and/or the graph

Slow scrolling allows easy entry at the correct price while keeping current price centered, almost like a hybrid between static and dynamic DOM

Cons:

If you want to see the trades marked on a chart, you will need to have two charts, one for the strategy to run without ChartTrader and a second chart with ChartTrader .

For some reason when I setup an "ATM" with a Target and a Stop Loss, the DOM would cancel the stops saying that it couldn't confirm the orders . It would leave the position open.

When I configured an "ATM" with just a stop loss it worked perfectly.

There is a setting to tell it not to cancel the orders but it still relinquishes control of the stops, so you would have to manage everything manually. Not sure WTF is going on with that.

It appears you give up the ability NT has to move Stops with "One Click".

I haven't spent that much time with it , so anything I couldn't get to work may not necessarily be the fault of the software.

YMMV

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

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gary at domsphere
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Hi Big Mike community again,

We have a new version out which fixes some issues with several instruments.
You may download and enjoy, let us know if you encounter any problems. Also please don't PM me here on big mike I can not reply until I have enough posts. You can contact me through our website.

ThatManFromTexas


ThatManFromTexas View Post

For some reason when I setup an "ATM" with a Target and a Stop Loss, the DOM would cancel the stops saying that it couldn't confirm the orders . It would leave the position open.

If you can reproduce this please contact us. This is a precautionary measure. If no confirmation for an automated target or stop order is received then the connection may be down. In this case you can select whether to cancel or leave the auto generated orders. DOMSphere will do its best to accommodate you in this instance.


ThatManFromTexas View Post

It appears you give up the ability NT has to move Stops with "One Click".

Every orders bar has up/down button to move an order 1-3 ticks with a single click. This is usually enough for most instruments. But we are open to suggestions for improvements.

Thanks,

Gary

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 ThatManFromTexas 
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gary at domsphere View Post



ThatManFromTexas



If no confirmation for an automated target or stop order is received then the connection may be down. In this case you can select whether to cancel or leave the auto generated orders. DOMSphere will do its best to accommodate you in this instance.

The connection was fine.

If I setup a Stop Loss only, it worked every time. I thought I might need to do something different with the target setup, but other than the ticks , there wasn't much to change.

I'll try the new version and see if there's any difference.


gary at domsphere View Post


Every orders bar has up/down button to move an order 1-3 ticks with a single click. This is usually enough for most instruments. But we are open to suggestions for improvements.

I was being descriptive, not judgmental. I don't know if this is even important to traders . I trade from the chart.

On the NT DOM, if you enable "One Click" trading, with targets and/or Stop Loss set, if you click on a price, the Target or Stop Loss will move to that position with one click, regardless of the number of ticks.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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 ThatManFromTexas 
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Ok, I tried the new version...

The targets and stops worked as designed

One interesting thing... if you set your stops and targets with the ATM ... and you have them displayed on a chart with chart trader enabled ... you can not drag the targets and stops on the chart, they will go back to the setting in the ATM. You can move them on the DOM by clicking the up down movement graphics.

If this DOM was connected to an NT ATM strategy like I did with my Tool Bar Push buttons, this issue would go away.

Overall it seems like a good tool if you want a different DOM than what is available in NT.

YMMV

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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 lolu 
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gary at domsphere View Post
Hi Big Mike community again,

We have a new version out which fixes some issues with several instruments.
You may download and enjoy, let us know if you encounter any problems. Also please don't PM me here on big mike I can not reply until I have enough posts. You can contact me through our website.

ThatManFromTexas



If you can reproduce this please contact us. This is a precautionary measure. If no confirmation for an automated target or stop order is received then the connection may be down. In this case you can select whether to cancel or leave the auto generated orders. DOMSphere will do its best to accommodate you in this instance.



Every orders bar has up/down button to move an order 1-3 ticks with a single click. This is usually enough for most instruments. But we are open to suggestions for improvements.

Thanks,

Gary

@DOMSphere's Gary

Have a look at this Real-time live recording of my "test-out" of the DOMSphere in my trade early this morning (my morning). You'll notice the message that popped up in the course of my trade. Meanwhile, see the attached screenshot for my CES Template settings.

So, what is responsible for the Message ? The CES settings seem simple. I'll even want to explore the AutoTrailing Stop setting, but I can seem to proceed to do that just yet.

Lolu



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gary at domsphere
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Hi everyone,


ThatManFromTexas View Post
Ok, I tried the new version...
One interesting thing... if you set your stops and targets with the ATM ... and you have them displayed on a chart with chart trader enabled ... you can not drag the targets and stops on the chart, they will go back to the setting in the ATM. You can move them on the DOM by clicking the up down movement graphics.
YMMV

We have not really considered chart trading along side DOMSphere but you have certainly given me something to think about for the next the release. It is however more problematic at a deeper glance.
Consider a profit target after you have scaled in. You would essentially have two take profit orders at the same price that are supposed to be linked together. Using an external tool like a chart or the NT control center you can alter the price of one of those orders but not the other. It is not clear how the CES is supposed to behave after you have split your profit target. Currently it returns the moved order to its former price. If you have some thoughts on this I would love to hear them.


lolu View Post
So, what is responsible for the Message ?

I believe the message means that the CES has attempted to move your trailing stop but did not receive the confirmation for the new price, indicating a possible connection problem. I can know more if you mail me the log file of that CES.
When a CES becomes inactive a log file detailing its activity is written. Log files are located under the folder "My Documents\DOMSphere\CESLogs".

Thanks,

Gary

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 ThatManFromTexas 
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gary at domsphere View Post


We have not really considered chart trading along side DOMSphere but you have certainly given me something to think about for the next the release. It is however more problematic at a deeper glance.
Consider a profit target after you have scaled in. You would essentially have two take profit orders at the same price that are supposed to be linked together. Using an external tool like a chart or the NT control center you can alter the price of one of those orders but not the other. It is not clear how the CES is supposed to behave after you have split your profit target. Currently it returns the moved order to its former price. If you have some thoughts on this I would love to hear them.


With NT DOM up and a Chart with Chart Trader enabled, If I have pending orders (Stops and Targets generated by the ATM) they show up in the DOM and in the Chart.

If I move an order on the DOM it will move on the chart also.

If I drag an order on the Chart, it will move on the DOM also.

I do not know if this is important to other traders or not.

I was simply trying to give a comparison of the two DOM's




gary at domsphere View Post

I believe the message means that the CES has attempted to move your trailing stop but did not receive the confirmation for the new price, indicating a possible connection problem. I can know more if you mail me the log file of that CES.
When a CES becomes inactive a log file detailing its activity is written. Log files are located under the folder "My Documents\DOMSphere\CESLogs".

This is the same issue I mentioned before. The connection can be fine and you will get these type of errors. I can place the same orders through NT DOM at the same time as your DOM and NT will handle them without a problem.

I do not doubt that something is "timing out" to cause this problem , but I would caution against using blanket "NT Support-esque" type of answers.

Introducing a new product against an established product can have it's challenges, but giving better/more empathetic/friendlier support than NT would not require that much effort.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #26 (permalink)
 Braulio 
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Has anyone ever tried to program the Super DOM? (I mean here on Big Mike's) Why not? Because it's not supported?

Tried a quick search but found very little.
This if from Ninjatrader Support forum :

Super DOM Programming - NinjaTrader Support Forum

B

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 monpere 
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Braulio View Post
Has anyone ever tried to program the Super DOM? (I mean here on Big Mike's) Why not? Because it's not supported?

Tried a quick search but found very little.
This if from Ninjatrader Support forum :

Super DOM Programming - NinjaTrader Support Forum

B

Interesting idea. That's another way to potentially defeat the crazy TT static DOM patent. Allow a backdoor to allow the user to programatically change the behavior of the dynamic DOM, to become static. That way the onus is on the user, and NT is not violating the patent. I'll support any endeavor to stick it to TT

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OK - I understand that this will sound like I am taking the pi$$ Mike - but is this thread to discuss the vendor or the product?

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I will carry on - although I am not sure what's allowed here...

I had a trial of Domsphere. It's a good product but takes up a lot of screen real estate. I was a little surprised at the features as it duplicates some of those in Ninjas ATM strategies and so does actually have the potential to reduce Ninjas revenues. As such, I was a tad surprised Ninja allowed those features as a partner.

I moved from Tradestation to Ninja and so I do miss a number of these features - I just think they need to be compressed a little. Still - even if it does take up a fair amount of real estate, it is a much better DOM than Ninja.

In terms of TT patent, it could be an issue - but not for anyone that buys it. If you get this, you can trade with Ninja without paying for their TT credits or their ATM features. For some people that could make it worth the purchase price.

It is certainly a well developed product.

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 Braulio 
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Taking requests? Now we're talking!!! Since we're on it, I would like to have a column on each side of the DOM just for limit orders, like Infinity.


monpere View Post
Interesting idea. That's another way to potentially defeat the crazy TT static DOM patent. Allow a backdoor to allow the user to programatically change the behavior of the dynamic DOM, to become static. That way the onus is on the user, and NT is not violating the patent. I'll support any endeavor to stick it to TT


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MetalTrade View Post
OK monpere, please answer this :

you create something
you design something
you are the only one
you worked hard on it
you worked really hard on it
you sell it
you have an edge on your competition because of it
--
they just copy it

please tell me how you would feel ? what would you do if you had the power ?

It's a good point - but I don't think TT actually invented anything.

My understanding was they cornered a patent on something that already existed. The first time somebody has the $$$ to challenge it, the patent will be Toast...

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gary at domsphere
Israel
 
 
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DionysusToast View Post
I will carry on - although I am not sure what's allowed here...
It's a good product but takes up a lot of screen real estate.

Hi DionysusToast,

If you would like to save on screen real estate you should try the following tip. Go to DOMSphere's general options window and try to reduce the font size. You will note that the DOM scales down to the current font size.
Hope that helps.

Gary

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I will admit - I did look at this but not in too much depth as I was a bit lazy in learning something new. Still - I think it may be of value and I have a few questions.

Is there any way to identify how many trades/month it would take before this product pays for itself.

By that I mean savings in:
- ATM fees
- TT credits?

Also - would using this software allow me to connect to multiple brokers WITHOUT a multi-broker NT license? Could i use a free license but connect to IB through your DOM?

Do you have any performance metrics/videos of this next to a Ninja DOM to show how it does during peak times?

Finally - I have read the literature but wasn't sure of the difference between what you offer in terms of the exit strategies and any features you have that aren't in the ATM strategies.

For example - could I do something like this:

- On entry - 6 tick target 8 tick stop
- each time the market moves up 2 ticks - tighten the stop
- STOP any automation of exits if I move something manually?
- don't tighten past breakeven

Of course - that is very specific to me, I'm just trying to get a handle on how tunable it is compared to Ninja ATM.

One other thing - does it submit OCOs to IB? My understanding is that Ninja submits OCO orders to IB that sit on IBs server. With most brokers, both legs of the OCO go to the broker but the cancellation of the opposite leg (when one side is hit) is done on the platform. My understanding is that with IB the cancellation of the opposite leg is server side. Is there anything specific you have done for this or is it just standard with IB?

Cheers

Pete

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 Big Mike 
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DionysusToast View Post
I will admit - I did look at this but not in too much depth as I was a bit lazy in learning something new. Still - I think it may be of value and I have a few questions.

Is there any way to identify how many trades/month it would take before this product pays for itself.

By that I mean savings in:
- ATM fees
- TT credits?

Also - would using this software allow me to connect to multiple brokers WITHOUT a multi-broker NT license? Could i use a free license but connect to IB through your DOM?

Do you have any performance metrics/videos of this next to a Ninja DOM to show how it does during peak times?

Finally - I have read the literature but wasn't sure of the difference between what you offer in terms of the exit strategies and any features you have that aren't in the ATM strategies.

For example - could I do something like this:

- On entry - 6 tick target 8 tick stop
- each time the market moves up 2 ticks - tighten the stop
- STOP any automation of exits if I move something manually?
- don't tighten past breakeven

Of course - that is very specific to me, I'm just trying to get a handle on how tunable it is compared to Ninja ATM.

One other thing - does it submit OCOs to IB? My understanding is that Ninja submits OCO orders to IB that sit on IBs server. With most brokers, both legs of the OCO go to the broker but the cancellation of the opposite leg (when one side is hit) is done on the platform. My understanding is that with IB the cancellation of the opposite leg is server side. Is there anything specific you have done for this or is it just standard with IB?

Cheers

Pete

As you know, he cannot reply to you - vendors cannot make posts which promote their product.

Did you send this to him via email so he could answer you privately, and just copy it here? If not, please do and then let us know.

Mike

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Mike - I haven't but I will...

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gary at domsphere
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Well I need 5 posts to reply privately to you so this should get me there.

Have a great weekend guys,

Gary

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 rainbowtrader 
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It seems as if DOMSPHERE doesn't exist anymore because I tried to access the website several times and always get a time out message

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 cory 
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GoldStandard View Post
Just got it installed on a ninja demo account and I notice that it does center itself, like a dynamic DOM, but it does so very very slowly, in small increments. Looks like they may have found a clever way to provide a useable DOM without violating the TT patent.

TT got them?!?!?

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 monpere 
Bala, PA, USA
 
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cory View Post
TT got them?!?!?

Bastards!

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rainbowtrader View Post
It seems as if DOMSPHERE doesn't exist anymore because I tried to access the website several times and always get a time out message

Yes, they closed up shop.

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