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Broker: Advantage, Trading Technologies, OptionsCity, IQ Feed
Trading: CL, NG
Posts: 1,038 since Jul 2010
Thanks Given: 1,713
Thanks Received: 3,863
Hi Horst,
That's an impressive amount of winning trades you took. Congratulations! How long have you been trading? I was just curious to learn what your point gains were on these days per contract. I think that would be a nice contrast vs. the total dollar amount gained. I mean, if I averaged 3 points/day (30 ticks) on TF trading 15 contracts, that would yield me roughly $90k/month. But three points isn't that impressive. It's just the leverage being used that makes it sound so amazing. I haven't seen you run into many difficulties while in your trades example being full stop outs, etc. That's pretty remarkable. I've been trading for over 13 years and I still take small losses here and there even though I'm consistently profitable. Just curious how you do it?
I started my career trading fibonacci levels and found them to be so so. Don't get me wrong, I made money using them but the problem I found with them is you can easily get steam rolled taking a counter trend trade. The other issue I found with fibs is you may or may not be using the correct anchor level which will in turn steam roll you. But I definitely think they are still a valuable tool that I use in my trading but not the only tool I use.
Anyway, I've enjoyed reading your thread today and hope to learn more from you on this. Like others have mentioned, I'd also be interested in seeing a Ninja Trader trade summary report or some sort of account statements, trade blotter from broker, etc. It would be enlightening to see your stats on these trades as they appear to be very effective. Just include a month to date summary.
Yes, I do trade this system, but I am 1.5 years in as where Horst is about 4.5 years in or almost 5? Plus he was doing some day trading prior to that. I deep down do believe hours spent understanding patterns is a GOOD thing, but I do believe that HORST is legit. Also, I am not anyone to measure success upon as my focus has been a bit scattered.
There are some people in the group that pull these kinds of points out of the market, but with fewer contracts, so the point being is that 820 ticks is possible (in my opinion and especially trading CL!) but like PrivateBanker said, it is matter of leverage or account size.
It is up to Horst if he chooses to show his account statement, but like so many have said before, that unless he shows EVERYTHING and even then people will doubt it. I know I would, at least a little as due to this business of significant 'liars' then we are forced to.
I have spent time getting to know Horst from about 5 months ago. I encouraged him to come journal to show his success to others and motivate.
I think there are three paths to take here:
1. Horst does his best to accommodate everyone and everything to show he is legit.
2. Horst just stops posting due to the 'aggression' he is or will be getting.
3. Horst just ignored this and keeps posting his journal.
Again, if you are a seasoned and experienced trader who has shown 31 days of trading consistently with some losses (intra-day) but overall profitable, then you will get a shit load of input.
Honestly, only Horst and his broker know what the reality is, and I suggest we just let him motivate us all to become better traders! That is what I am doing.
P.S. There are other traders in the group, like I mentioned, but I do believe they are not quite as consistent or profitable, but on the path.
These aren't just single trades either. He had some pretty 'shitty' days with a lot of 'gifts'. The key is though that he just sticks in there and keeps going.
That is why he is so tied into his Mentor as he kept him on the path until he has created this significant consistency!
There is no limit in ways to fake "winning" trades, here are three:
- Only show winning trades, not losers. This could be as simple as re-recording videos over and over until a trade works.
- Change NT to show what appears to be a live acct # even though it isn't actually cash. Easily done in NT settings.
- Hedge in another account. In other words, the trades could be 100% real - but you don't see the second account taking the opposite position in the background to hedge.
Look, there is no end to how to deceive someone. The ultimate question is motive.
I agree. For Horst specifically (not saying you are saying he is doing these things) for me Horst didn't have the technical aptitude from October (when he first started using NT) to fake anything and I remember several days where he hit 10+ points per day.
I also checked the account #'s that he used for several several weeks and I came up w/ 3 distinct accounts. I know he switched brokers in-between using the first 2 and the last account. He also notified me that he had some questionnable action on his account with his broker when he let out the broker he was using etc...
He could be hedging, but I doubt it. After what I have seen from him for 5 months and also from his Mentor, I do believe he is legit and I am envious.
I was profitable for like 30 days in a row in my journal also BTW! But, I was like +3 ticks per average, +8 ticks etc.. Horst is just better at seeing the longer/bigger runs, and he probably has a bigger trading account so he can trade 10 contracts without too much effect.
I will stop defending him as he doesn't need me, but I do know how it is. I wish all traders on here will be that consistent, and I think a few are getting there (AZ, MWinfrey) etc..
Don't feel like reading thread through but easy way to prove whether one is legit or not is to ...
Post trade idea, entry, stop loss before taking the trade. Therefore there is a realtime record of wins, losses, etc. Scaling or anything else like that should be thought out before the trade scenario occurs so that could be reported in realtime as well before taking the trade. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.
Its laughable that anyone would care if Horsts trades exist as a tangible P&L in his own account . Its clear that if someone doubts this success is actually doable that they are only doubting themselves and cant conceive that someone else can achieve this .
I enjoy this journal and dont care who packs their account to the hilt everyday (just myself) although I believe he does . Whats significant is the consistency and focus being applied and whether its live or sim or smoke and mirrors doesnt matter . Besides , if you followed his method you probaby wouldnt duplicate his results but might come close with any method if you had his focus and dicipline .
