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New Beginnings: The Journal of a Trader's Journey to Equanimity
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New Beginnings: The Journal of a Trader's Journey to Equanimity

  #31 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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sysot1t View Post
Plethora, take a read at webster definition of a gamble.. and not as to what popular culture defines it as... you will have a better understanding of what a true gambler is and does..

respectfully, I a disagree that a gambler believes he will lose... the most confident people I know, are gamblers... and they always know they will win... they dont just play poker, but craps and other card games; and they have discipline as their foundation... they actually approach their gambling as a job, not an addiction.

I agree with you. Naturally, the word gambling is associated with moral issues, but the reality is that every decision you make where you don't know the outcome for certain is a gamble. A gamble consists of 3 components:
1) Odds
2) Human Psychology
3) Randomness
The combination of the three will determine it's final outcome.

Also, simplicity plays a BIG role in decision making of life's decision (gambles).
When analyzing situations start with all the variables and start reducing them to those that are most important.
There is always a component of uncertainty you cant remove and that is what makes some more successful than others.
They are willing to live with that uncertainty.

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  #32 (permalink)
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sysot1t View Post
Plethora, take a read at webster definition of a gamble.. and not as to what popular culture defines it as... you will have a better understanding of what a true gambler is and does..

respectfully, I a disagree that a gambler believes he will lose... the most confident people I know, are gamblers... and they always know they will win... they dont just play poker, but craps and other card games; and they have discipline as their foundation... they actually approach their gambling as a job, not an addiction.

As to your doubt of me being a gambler... I have played blackjack now for over 10 years, got started on my 21st birthday by my uncle and cousin... and I am still up.. not because I have not lost money to the casino's, but because of my money management which took me about 2 years to develop and understand ... also, the example I put forth about the job was a personal one.

I took a gamble to increase my personal job income, and it didnt worked out. I did put my family at risk when I did it, just as everyone else out there does when they take a new job, but I did not blindly gamble on my new job. I was able to adjust my plan as I saw the conditions unravel. I changed my mind about relocating the family for me to be closer to work and save on the 3 hours rountrip commute; I looked at my budget and spending and started to control it and manage it more closely to a baseline; those were all things I did when I quickly realize the gamble did not worked as expected when I was told that my year end bonus would be 20% of plan and to pick between cash and stock options, that I could not have both. Believe me, considering the savings I had delivered to the company from their operating budget, I was rather pissed off about not being properly compensated, but nothing much one could do as I had plenty of friends that were laid off and did not even get a bonus thanks to the whole financial crisis we faced in 2008.

We are all gamblers; we all play and bet on uncertain outcomes, we all play the game of life for property or money, we all take chances, we are all exposed to risk and hazards on a daily basis. There are differences betwen those that see that simple fact of life, and those that dont.

Primarily, those that see the gamble in life will learn to exert proper risk management... those that dont, will just blame others, conditions, etc. and hope for hitting the lotto and get rich quick.. which is also why so many enter the futures market, and why those with skills take their money every single day.. and luckily, there is never a shortage of those that dont understand the simple facts of life and trading the markets... you need proper risk and money management for everything.

How you get into a trade (your "setup") matters less than how you manage that trade once you are in it... of course, a setup will increase your probabilities of success, so one gambles with common sense and a perceived edge to aid on the success... but that is all a setup does... once you are in a trade, your psychology kicks in.. and fear and greed tend to take over, and without a plan.. winners turn into loosers, and you end up averaging those losers and cutting short your winners and never adding to them. I've paid tuition to the markets, and as such I made all those mistakes as well; but those mistakes stopped when I started treating my futures trading no different than how I dealt with Black Jack, and how I traded options, after all they are just another derivative and nothing else.

as usual, I will disclaim... my beliefs dont have to be your own.. I formulated my beliefs from my life journey, those that mentor me, from friends and acquantainces experiences and plainly put, from others mistakes... so it is tailored to me and my personality, and it will more than likely not fit you... take what is of value from it and apply it to your own if any value exists for you. I dont profess to know it all, and I still have lots and lots to learn about trading and myself in general given that as complex beings we change all the time.

You should not follow anyone's advice directly, but rather listen and understand their challenges and then draw from the experiences based on how you think and your personality. Trading requires you to know yourself, as one faces all of ones demons at the same time when trading. IMO, without knowing who you are, you will fail.

Bravo, sysot. Great post. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

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  #33 (permalink)
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Calling mainstream:


mainstream - this is for you.

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  #34 (permalink)
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plethora View Post
AZ, a wonderful gift you have given me on Christmas. Thank you so much for your time and generosity. Every single word you wrote resonates with much truth and validity for me.



Thank you so much. You can't imagine how much I appreciate your words. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I agree with @ Metaltrade with regards to Perry's platform. I use something similar but with my own twists and turns. I tend to use support/resistance as defined by Fibs along with the idea of Perry's platform. Perry's is simple, easy to learn and follow. Like all trend following systems, it will not do well in sideways markets, but he has a filter that takes care of much (but not all) of the chop. For this reason, you'll miss some moves but that is the price you pay for a system like this. It will win enough that you should not care about the missed ones.

As to the indicators you use, I don't know enough about them to pass judgment but I suspect mixing market profile with the other items you mentioned will result in some confusion. Best of my knowledge, market profile is best used stand alone.

Yes I do have a trading buddy, we skype every day, talk on the phone every day and I have about three other traders I talk to weekly. The main topic of conversation????? The mental game. Almost never do we speak of set ups or trade management. Money management yes. We speak of that often but the actual trading not so much. We will skype our trades periodically throughout the day but I don't take his trades nor he mine. Once in a while we will but those almost always end up being a bust. The reason is this: Even though both of us are reasonably decent traders, our methods are not the same.

Anyway, the point is this, we spend most of our time working through the mental aspects of trading. And I suspect once you find your trading buddy, so will you. If you can't find one you respect, then a paid trading coach could be the answer. There are several out there that I know about but none are cheap. I suppose if they helped you conquer your mental issues, almost any amount of money would be worth it.

Stay on sim until you have found a system/method you have learned to trust, even if it takes a year. Once you have, you can move back to live money. One word about this though. Don't believe back tested results. Find something you like and forward test it using real live data. Trade it real time. You need to be able to execute it. If its too complicated or to severely curve fitted to optimize back tested results, you'll find this out in the forward testing process.

If for some reason you simply cannot find a method that works for you, you can try automated trading. Some here on the forum highly recommend it. There are many brokers that can provide you with tested auto trading systems. There are also several auto systems at collective2 you can try but I highly recommend you attempt to become a good discretionary trader before you go down this path.

Good luck on the journey.....

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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  #35 (permalink)
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aztrader9 View Post
I agree with @ Metaltrade with regards to Perry's platform. I use something similar but with my own twists and turns. I tend to use support/resistance as defined by Fibs along with the idea of Perry's platform. Perry's is simple, easy to learn and follow. Like all trend following systems, it will not do well in sideways markets, but he has a filter that takes care of much (but not all) of the chop. For this reason, you'll miss some moves but that is the price you pay for a system like this. It will win enough that you should not care about the missed ones.

As to the indicators you use, I don't know enough about them to pass judgment but I suspect mixing market profile with the other items you mentioned will result in some confusion. Best of my knowledge, market profile is best used stand alone.

Yes I do have a trading buddy, we skype every day, talk on the phone every day and I have about three other traders I talk to weekly. The main topic of conversation????? The mental game. Almost never do we speak of set ups or trade management. Money management yes. We speak of that often but the actual trading not so much. We will skype our trades periodically throughout the day but I don't take his trades nor he mine. Once in a while we will but those almost always end up being a bust. The reason is this: Even though both of us are reasonably decent traders, our methods are not the same.

Anyway, the point is this, we spend most of our time working through the mental aspects of trading. And I suspect once you find your trading buddy, so will you. If you can't find one you respect, then a paid trading coach could be the answer. There are several out there that I know about but none are cheap. I suppose if they helped you conquer your mental issues, almost any amount of money would be worth it.

Stay on sim until you have found a system/method you have learned to trust, even if it takes a year. Once you have, you can move back to live money. One word about this though. Don't believe back tested results. Find something you like and forward test it using real live data. Trade it real time. You need to be able to execute it. If its too complicated or to severely curve fitted to optimize back tested results, you'll find this out in the forward testing process.

If for some reason you simply cannot find a method that works for you, you can try automated trading. Some here on the forum highly recommend it. There are many brokers that can provide you with tested auto trading systems. There are also several auto systems at collective2 you can try but I highly recommend you attempt to become a good discretionary trader before you go down this path.

Good luck on the journey.....

AZ,
I spent the last couple of hours reading Perry's thread and am ecstatic. It is beyond my wildest imagination. I wish I had started yesterday but succumbed to procrastination due to fear. It is so much more than I imagined anyone could provide. Like Perry says, he takes the stress out of trading. Go figure. I haven't nearly gone through the entire 70 pages. Think I am only on 11 but I'm copying and pasting everything of importance into a word file so I have an organized document to study. If anyone else needs it, perhaps I will add it to the thread once I get up and running. Tomorrow I'll start loading the charts. I don't know how to thank everyone. My gratitude for your kindness and of course, Metal's for mentioning Perry and finally Perry's generosity, how does one acknowledge so much goodness. Well, I have a lot before me to study so I'm going underground for a couple of days. I don't remember the last time I felt this happy.
Many, many thanks once again.

Have a wonderfully productive trading time this last week in 2010 to all you generous souls who helped me out here.

Much appreciation.

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  #36 (permalink)
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Thanks Man!

Right back at you... Worden style!

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  #37 (permalink)
The fun is in the numbers
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plethora View Post
The unbearable pain is the only thing that has made me look at myself in the mirror: I'm a gambler. ... My therapist asks why I use labels that limit me? But I'm so scared I'm unable to trade like a normal, healthy person, because I have no other way to support myself.

Hi Plethora,
I guess its all been said by the other replies. It must be very hard if you " have no other way to support myself"
I would like to say I agree with Metal - go to a simulator. If you MUST trade then perhaps you could set yourself a rule I will only take one trade of one ES or 100 SPY shares per day. That you are trading on the low volume before Christmas is ... well silly.

Here are my suggestions if you would like to see what might work for you:
1. First thing in the morning after you have made your coffee, sit quietly and and in a notebook just for this purpose, list 10 things you are thankful for numbered 1 to 10.
"Thank-you for my coffee. Thank-you for a warm place to sleep." ect

2. Secondly, write some of your accomplishments.
"I got to bed on time."
They can be anything. Big or small but stated in the positive. Be generous with yourself - it doesn't have to be something that someone else would regard as an accomplishment.

3. Thirdly, Stand in front of a mirror and say
"Plethora I love you."
for a couple of minutes - from Louise Hay You Can Heal your Life.

3B. Go for a brisk walk at a pace of 4 miles per hour, swing your arms breath deeply and smile

4. Write a list of affirmations and read them aloud.

5. As for trading, well the others are better sources than I.

The ES is very hard to trade, very 'hurky-jerky' without good trending.
On narrow low volume days you are meat for the floor traders.

All the best.

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  #38 (permalink)
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You mean ex-floortraders right ?

The making of lists, talking in the mirror and other stuff like that doesn't work for me. Loosing a lot of money because of my fault fixed my problems.

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  #39 (permalink)
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MetalTrade View Post
You mean ex-floortraders right ?

The making of lists, talking in the mirror and other stuff like that doesn't work for me. Loosing a lot of money because of my fault fixed my problems.

I concurr... the whole "make yourself feel like a star" so you trade better doesnt work for me neither... on anything at all acutally, not just trading... it might work for others, so it doesnt mean that it does not work... just doesnt work with my personality.

it is either one has the confidence to trade or do anything else.. or you gain that confidence by learning the basics, applying oneself, and achieving success and when facing failures admiting to those failures and learning from the mistakes... no success without effort and putting in the time to learn it is what I believe in.

unlesss one has papa noel to ask him for things... notice how "the ability to gain better understanding and work hard" was never part of the wish ..

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  #40 (permalink)
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plethora View Post
AZ,
I spent the last couple of hours reading Perry's thread and am ecstatic. It is beyond my wildest imagination. I wish I had started yesterday but succumbed to procrastination due to fear. It is so much more than I imagined anyone could provide. Like Perry says, he takes the stress out of trading. Go figure. I haven't nearly gone through the entire 70 pages. Think I am only on 11 but I'm copying and pasting everything of importance into a word file so I have an organized document to study. If anyone else needs it, perhaps I will add it to the thread once I get up and running. Tomorrow I'll start loading the charts. I don't know how to thank everyone. My gratitude for your kindness and of course, Metal's for mentioning Perry and finally Perry's generosity, how does one acknowledge so much goodness. Well, I have a lot before me to study so I'm going underground for a couple of days. I don't remember the last time I felt this happy.
Many, many thanks once again.

Have a wonderfully productive trading time this last week in 2010 to all you generous souls who helped me out here.

Much appreciation.

Excitement is great, but until you get to the point of where you do not feel excitement to trade or click the button then you are ready for live.

STRICTLY MY OPINION but that is how I lost a bit of money. EXCITEMENT. haha...

Excitement is great because it will drive you to learn more.

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