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TF day trading

  #601 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post
How many hours or how much in time passed by would move someone to a non-beginner? Just curious as I have an interesting pdf my wife always shares with me on the different levels of a trader.

I have about 2 years straight day in day out at least 4 hours a day if not 8 staring and looking at charts and about 2,000 different systems that I have programmed and tried to make work on the side. From currencies to equities to futures as well as a fundamental trader off-on for about 11 years. So far the best system that I have seen anyone trade is the one I do in this journal and I have seen a lot of 'systems'.

I tried Market Profile for a while (about 3 months) and found it 'lacking' as much as any other system. To me it is more of just spending time with your system and falling in love with it and making it yours.


I've not posted much in your thread as I don't watch the videos so can't comment on the actual trading....but one thing I have read over and over in the thread is this....."if only I had let the winner run". Even with all the noise over the reality of Horsts trades, I think you have a good system. Maybe better than most. I have no idea. But I do know this, Horst was making money and you were/are not. He is trading the same method I think so what is the difference?

Here is what I think and I might be wrong but here goes. You have committed to trading this no matter what and I think that is a good thing. I think you have a good feel for what the method says should happen in certain circumstances. I also think you know what you should do in those circumstances in terms of entering the trades. I think there are possibly two things you should do different.

1. Wait a little longer to enter.....deeper in the fibs so to speak. That seems to be the lowest risk trade most of the time
2. Let the winners run. Get up and go do something different. Ask yourself, "Self, how often do I pick a level price should go to and it does". How long does it take to do it most of the time. Am I prepared to wait that long to get my target level? If you answered the first question more than 50% of the time, then you just need to steel yourself to sit through the trade or perhaps leave it on and go find something else to do.

I left a trade on today for over an hour. Something I never do. But I put it in with stops, picked a level I liked for targets and left the house with no trail stop. That trade went 30 ticks in my favor, then back to BE then back to 30+ ticks and I eventually took it off with almost 50 ticks after it did all that while I was gone. The point is, I called the levels correct and let the market do the rest while I was otherwise engaged. This is NOT something I recommend as a normal trading practice but you get the idea.

I think you are on the right track. Developing the ability to dance with the market in context of your system. Its not all about the strict mechanics.....probably at least 50% is feel....and that cannot be taught, it must be developed and that takes time but not just rote time....I think time listening to that little voice inside that says trade/don't trade is more valuable than the mechanics of the system. You learned the system in just a few days and the nuances in a few weeks. Now its feel.

Don't be afraid to go with the gut. Its almost always right.

All of this said in the context of me still struggling to achieve what I just discussed. Take it for what its worth.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


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  #602 (permalink)
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aztrader9 View Post
I've not posted much in your thread as I don't watch the videos so can't comment on the actual trading....but one thing I have read over and over in the thread is this....."if only I had let the winner run". Even with all the noise over the reality of Horsts trades, I think you have a good system. Maybe better than most. I have no idea. But I do know this, Horst was making money and you were/are not. He is trading the same method I think so what is the difference?

Here is what I think and I might be wrong but here goes. You have committed to trading this no matter what and I think that is a good thing. I think you have a good feel for what the method says should happen in certain circumstances. I also think you know what you should do in those circumstances in terms of entering the trades. I think there are possibly two things you should do different.

1. Wait a little longer to enter.....deeper in the fibs so to speak. That seems to be the lowest risk trade most of the time
2. Let the winners run. Get up and go do something different. Ask yourself, "Self, how often do I pick a level price should go to and it does". How long does it take to do it most of the time. Am I prepared to wait that long to get my target level? If you answered the first question more than 50% of the time, then you just need to steel yourself to sit through the trade or perhaps leave it on and go find something else to do.

I left a trade on today for over an hour. Something I never do. But I put it in with stops, picked a level I liked for targets and left the house with no trail stop. That trade went 30 ticks in my favor, then back to BE then back to 30+ ticks and I eventually took it off with almost 50 ticks after it did all that while I was gone. The point is, I called the levels correct and let the market do the rest while I was otherwise engaged. This is NOT something I recommend as a normal trading practice but you get the idea.

I think you are on the right track. Developing the ability to dance with the market in context of your system. Its not all about the strict mechanics.....probably at least 50% is feel....and that cannot be taught, it must be developed and that takes time but not just rote time....I think time listening to that little voice inside that says trade/don't trade is more valuable than the mechanics of the system. You learned the system in just a few days and the nuances in a few weeks. Now its feel.

Don't be afraid to go with the gut. Its almost always right.

All of this said in the context of me still struggling to achieve what I just discussed. Take it for what its worth.

No, the best golf instructor is not yourself right?

I agree and I think HORST would also!

I think it comes down to feeling good and well and having many many consecutive winning days (both live and sim) and then the market went into what I shall call 'spazz' mode of up up up or down down down no matter what is happening. The way I was taught that NO MATTER WHAT the indicators are always right.

So, then I started being a victim and 'why me' and blah blah blah. So I promised myself, no live trading until I can hit at least 2-3 points a day (learn how to dribble the basketball!) consistently or what is the point.

Your comments are good and where I am at now is coming out of where the dance instructor says, "You have to move your hips more" to hearing the music and wanting to move my hips more.

It can be as easy as a decision to be made and I think that is where it gets frustrating for some teaching as it is so obvious. But, for some reason we always make it harder than it is. I guess that is all part of the mental game as it goes.

Thanks for the input and per your advice, that is exactly what I have been doing a lot better lately. (items 1 & 2)


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  #603 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post

Your comments are good and where I am at now is coming out of where the dance instructor says, "You have to move your hips more" to hearing the music and wanting to move my hips more.

The best people at any endeavor are the ones that abandon themselves to it and are willing to risk looking foolish. My wife is a singer. She sings great.....the one thing her voice teacher told her was, "Open it up and let it fly. Everyone looks weird when they are really letting it go". I do live audio mixing quite frequently and when my wife sings, I need to turn her down as her natural voice and the ability to really just turn it loose will often drown out the ones using a mic! She's not afraid to abandon her ability to the music.

I guess one has to just accept that all really worthwhile achievements are outside our comfort zone and strive to release ourselves to experiencing what that feels like. I used to purposely try things outside my normal conservative plain vanilla life just to expand myself. That was great. Haven't done that in a while.....maybe I will tomorrow.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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  #604 (permalink)
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aztrader9 View Post
The best people at any endeavor are the ones that abandon themselves to it and are willing to risk looking foolish. My wife is a singer. She sings great.....the one thing her voice teacher told her was, "Open it up and let it fly. Everyone looks weird when they are really letting it go". I do live audio mixing quite frequently and when my wife sings, I need to turn her down as her natural voice and the ability to really just turn it loose will often drown out the ones using a mic! She's not afraid to abandon her ability to the music.

I guess one has to just accept that all really worthwhile achievements are outside our comfort zone and strive to release ourselves to experiencing what that feels like. I used to purposely try things outside my normal conservative plain vanilla life just to expand myself. That was great. Haven't done that in a while.....maybe I will tomorrow.

All good points.

Aloha!

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  #605 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post
I will not trade tomorrow at all as too many traders are confused on that day.

...at least watch the market tomorrow, and watch how the pros slaughter the pigs...but I have a funny feeling when you are watching the market, you'll actually see setups that you "could" actually trade successfully....meaning you are not one of those "confused" traders on that day you dread to trade...hmmm


bluemele View Post
It was slow, so I sped it up after a while as I got bored.

Yes, and very BAD. Why? Rewind and listen to what you said..."I'm DONE..." meaning, you sit on your hands and just watch the market or do something else outside of the office. But Noooooo, you sped up the replay and "traded." Are you AWARE of that? The subtleties of the mind are hard to find especially when the BAD HABIT wants to creep back in.

Well, at least I notice you're open to try new things with this system like using tape reading and effectively using trend lines.

If you really want to make this system your own and you're open to my observation then let me know and I'll share some tips and tricks that will test and stretch your belief system towards your system.

From the members that respond to your journal, I can tell they can't wait for you to get better returns than Horst...and that would include me. You decide...

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
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  #606 (permalink)
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rtrade View Post
...at least watch the market tomorrow, and watch how the pros slaughter the pigs...but I have a funny feeling when you are watching the market, you'll actually see setups that you "could" actually trade successfully....meaning you are not one of those "confused" traders on that day you dread to trade...hmmm



Yes, and very BAD. Why? Rewind and listen to what you said..."I'm DONE..." meaning, you sit on your hands and just watch the market or do something else outside of the office. But Noooooo, you sped up the replay and "traded." Are you AWARE of that? The subtleties of the mind are hard to find especially when the BAD HABIT wants to creep back in.

Well, at least I notice you're open to try new things with this system like using tape reading and effectively using trend lines.

If you really want to make this system your own and you're open to my observation then let me know and I'll share some tips and tricks that will test and stretch your belief system towards your system.

From the members that respond to your journal, I can tell they can't wait for you to get better returns than Horst...and that would include me. You decide...

Haha, well, Horst is a friend and someone I respect immensely. It is not a competition to me but thanks for the vote of confidence. I think Horst probably wants me to be very profitable soon as well! (I enjoy how Horst handles himself to be honest and something I know is a bit down the road for me as far as self control but it will come soon enough)

You have a very very good point about the stop trading and then speeding it up. Bad me... Thanks for pointing that out as that is a definite 'addiction' and I could have been very comfortable but like everything in my life I love to push things to the limit and keep going going going.

I have used trendlines for a very long time and they are not new at all. I have actually built systems in MT4 using trendlines and decided for some reason that it wasn't enough action!

You all are point out some of my obvious limitations as a trader and my gaps are front and center and that is somewhat of the point of airing out my dirty laundry along with my clean laundry.

Just PM me your concepts and I can let you know what I think etc. or feel free to post them here. The book of trades is just more of a learning and I actually used it about a year ago as well but gave up on it since it was raddled and didn't really tell me much some of the time. But, I have to say that on a couple of occasions it has influenced my direction thinking.

I am open for comments, but I may not agree with them all. Just being open and forward.

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  #607 (permalink)
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no trading today

No Trading today due to contract switchover. I reviewed the market and it looked pretty ugly to me, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

Excited for Monday and a State Holiday in Hawaii today!

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  #608 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post
I am open for comments, but I may not agree with them all. Just being open and forward.

Hi blue, Ok, I will be brutally honest with my opinion with what I observe regarding your trading system. You have to realize the person that sold you this course, the author, and I say this mildly, is just a “Sales and Market-eer.”

Also, Horst’s past trading experience is different from your past trading experience. So there was something in this trading system that was the missing puzzle that accelerated Horst’s trading to a new level. Unfortunately, this is not the case for you. Your perception of this system is different from others because of your past trading experience…which is common to most traders regarding courses/systems.

This system you’re using, I can sum up in one word, or one name…Fibonacci. Yup, that’s the premise of this system. Fibonacci that has been wrapped around by re-created indicators and varying multiple charts representing frames of time. This is nothing new, google Fibonacci systems and you’ll see a plethora of “Sales and Market-eers” similar to yours…no real new creation but just a re-hash of clever creativity.

You see blue, I really didn’t have an interest reading your journal until the Horst drama, and by the way, I have no issues with the guy. But I became interested in your journal because I got annoyed when I listened to NFT’s introduction video.

There is a certain madness to why I’m framing this post the way I’m doing. And you’re going to have to think outside this system that you were conned into buying – oops – I meant the system you were sold. Yes, you can tell what I think of this system, but it’s not what I think – IT’S WHAT YOU THINK. And if you BELIEVE you can make it work than you can. So I will be as SIMPLE as possible to assist you in looking at this system at a different angle.

First, this is yours…you owe nothing to the author of this system. Let me be frank, he took your money and he’s NO WHERE to help you. All you have is the futures.io (formerly BMT) community. (ya, we may rant and rave about politics and religion, but when it comes to trading we’re serious about helping each other by keeping it real).
Second, you need to really, I mean really, understand how to “effectively” use Fibonacci. There’s a fairly new post by Jettrader that has reference of Fibonacci Masters. I say this because these Master’s are proven in their respected field and all you see in their charts are Fibs and ONLY Fibs. Yes, I see you using pivot points, but many times you miss using the “significant” pivot points in determining the retracements.

Third, you need to understand how bands work. I’m sure you heard the saying “band to band.” Well, I know you’re aware that sometimes it doesn’t work like that …sometimes it goes “band to…and wedges it out and then some.” Which leads to the final step one that you can observe yourself…

Forth, you have a series of indicators which basically represents time and weight…I simple would use the word SCALE. You have to be aware that at a certain time respective to each of the chart, the price action will move accordingly to that specific time and the amount of movement of the price action will be proportion to the charts weight.

I know this is where I might be losing you so I’ll be a simple as possible with this KEY observation. I mentioned Band to Band earlier but before it can accomplish that it has to…pass the mid-band. This is the KEY OBSERVATION I want you to get of all the steps!!! I notice you have a main chart that you use and you cover up all the other “weighted” charts and only show the indicators. Now, I want you to NOTICE on your main chart, when your indicator on the bottom of the chart reaches the 0 line, where is the price action in respect to the bands? Sorry it’s not a rhetorical question but I’ll answer it…the price action is at the MID BAND of the Band!!! You should be getting an AHHAAAA. If not let me continue with a visual example:

I took the liberty of using YOUR own charts no recreation. Also I did NOT cherry pick the chart like how most charlatan traders do for their presentation . I’m too lazy to look through all of your videos . I just chose the recent video and guess what…my observation is right

In chart 1 I want you to observe A, B, and C. notice the where the indicator is at…the 0 line and notice where the price action is at…the mid band. I’m glad I took this particular video because you can see there’s some small whip saw at the 0 line and midband…welcome to trading…nothing is always perfect.

Now I want you to observe D, when the indicator breaks above the 0 line…what is the tendencies of the price action? Sorry, not rhetorical, but I’ll answer…it goes to the upper band. AHHAAA. I bet if you reveled the chart for chart E or 233?, the price action is at the midband. And the same with chart F. But the beauty of chart G…it’s heading to it’s midband…meaning…CHA-CHING Baby!!! And I bet the second chart I’ve included, the ending session of your video, you can verify it as well.

Now blue, I’m NOT going to tell you how to trade…THAT’S YOUR JOB!!! But if you incorporate the Effective use of Fibonacci, the study of Band to Band trading, and the Time and Weight of this Observation, SCALE…your trading skills will be more deadly than a Navy Seal . Trust me, what I’m sharing with you is worth more than 10k .

But on the other hand, if you’re unable to see what I’m saying and reveling and disagree, then I it’s OK too. Godspeed on your trading journey!

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
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  #609 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post
How many hours or how much in time passed by would move someone to a non-beginner? Just curious as I have an interesting pdf my wife always shares with me on the different levels of a trader.

I have about 2 years straight day in day out at least 4 hours a day if not 8 staring and looking at charts and about 2,000 different systems that I have programmed and tried to make work on the side. From currencies to equities to futures as well as a fundamental trader off-on for about 11 years. So far the best system that I have seen anyone trade is the one I do in this journal and I have seen a lot of 'systems'.

I tried Market Profile for a while (about 3 months) and found it 'lacking' as much as any other system. To me it is more of just spending time with your system and falling in love with it and making it yours.


I don't think there is a set number of hours one needs to overcome in order to reach the next level on the ladder of trading success. I would rather say that it is a question of knowledge and, more importantly, wisdom. Luck even plays a role.

I can see that you are serious about becoming a successful trader, and I applaud your efforts. I hope you succeed!

You talk about systems, I was referring to "knowledge". A deeper understanding of the dynamics and mechanics of the marketplace is, at least for me, critical in order to make "sense" of it all. I am not against using indicators or various charting types etc if the trader can tell me why he is doing so and what he is trying to accomplish.

Market Profile is not a system, it is a way of organizing and displaying data. Like with all other charting methods (except the tick chart), it is a way of filtering price to accomplish an objective.

I have been getting some PMs about my trading method, and I am going to write a more detailed post on that tomorrow.

Thus I will leave it at that for now...


Last edited by Lornz; June 11th, 2011 at 08:05 PM.
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  #610 (permalink)
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Lornz View Post
I don't think there is a set number of hours one needs to overcome in order to reach the next level on the ladder of trading success. I would rather say that it is a question of knowledge and, more importantly, wisdom. Luck even plays a role.

I can see that you are serious about becoming a successful trader, and I applaud your efforts. I hope you succeed!

You talk about systems, I was referring to "knowledge". A deeper understanding of the dynamics and mechanics of the marketplace is, at least for me, critical in order to make "sense" of it all. I am not against using indicators or various charting types etc if the trader can tell me why he is doing so and what he is trying to accomplish.

Market Profile is not a system, it is a way of organizing and displaying data. Like with all other charting methods (except the tick chart), it is a way of filtering price to accomplish an objective.

I have been getting some PMs about my trading method, and I am going to write a more detailed post on that tomorrow.

Thus I will leave it at that for now...

Great, thanks.

Yes, I am somewhat familiar with Market Profile using Market Delta etc..

I am awaiting your post on your system as the Market Profile guys don't really share much on here. I think Cunparis used to, but he went off to his own blog etc..

To me Market Profile concepts were the same as using indicators and the rules one creates around them. I have seen so many systems, but it seems nobody is actually profitable doing them, or so few that I have a hard time identifying if they are truly profitable or just need the ego boost.

Why not set up a journal to discuss all your trading and share it with the world.

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