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Trying to find my trading edge


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Trying to find my trading edge

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  #21 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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chipwitch View Post

@bobwest Boy did I catch a ration of ca-ca for saying I had made a mistake! LOL People telling me that there are no mistakes in trading. I'm glad to see at least someone besides me doesn't have a problem with that concept

No mistakes in trading? Ha.

Not in this universe.

But I think this is fairly widely understood here, in spite of any particular situation you may have run into. Knowing it as a simple fact of life is what makes support possible. I like to think it's a common recognition here... with some exceptions at times, of course, since everyone makes mistakes, after all .

Bob.

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  #22 (permalink)
zzzz2021
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Anagami View Post
...Many traders already have the technical skills to make money... but cannot pull it off because of 'psychology'. Just my 2 cents after being around for a long time.

That's why I'm using any 'prop firm' to help me mastering my trading skills and mentality especially improving level of discipline due to tight drawdown rules. However I don't recommend anyone using these firms esp. newbies because their business model is to make money with ZERO purpose of helping and retaining traders.


bobwest View Post
No, you're not a POS. You're a human being who made a mistake. OK, more than one, and more than once.

If you think you're the only one who has ever done this, no, you're not. You're not the first one to every beat himself up either.

So give yourself some slack on the self-evaluation front, and figure out something good to try. Probably you know a lot of things that work, and apparently you also have issues about execution (including sometimes executing things you shouldn't -- call it impulse, or impatience, or "itchy fingers.")
...

C'on... I've been making these mistakes for years. There is no excuse for that. You might recall that I created a similar thread like this more than a year ago. I blew up my funded account and took some losses to my own trading account. I took time off from Futures.io to continue improving my strategies. Yet, I still make those mistakes again when I give it another shot. I appreciate your kind comments though.


chipwitch View Post
@bobwest said it's hard to give advice. It is true. Your emotions are strong and impulsive, perhaps even compulsive and that will interfere with your trading. I think one reason that it's hard to give advice is because there are a number of personalities (16, to be precise based on Briggs-Meyers). While everyone of us have our own emotions and challenges dealing with them, there is definitely a solution for it. But my personality probably isn't yours. What works for me, may not work for you. For some of us, it will be relatively easy to overcome the emotions. Others will have to work doubly hard.
......

My problem is that after I tested hundred of strategies to find reliable ones, somewhere somehow I developed some bad trading habits over the years. I've no doubt that many experienced traders would make the same mistakes like the way I do because when a discretionary trader becomes 'biased' of where price might go next, it's so easy to make mistakes right there. My current situation is how to trade like a robot with the current setups that I've so I don't make those mistakes again. I don't mean that my current setups are 100% profitable, but at least I know how and where to cut losses fast without emotion. The best solution is to automate my setups but I don't know how due to complicated 'stuff' that I use which seems almost impossible to write coding for it. The alternative solution is to improve my level of patient as a manual trader for now. Thank you for your inputs.

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  #23 (permalink)
zzzz2021
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Day 01: + $665. Also a positive day for my own trading account as well as a positive week, however I only put in 3 trades this week.

Setup #1: +$595. I took this trade under sim though.

Setup #2: Got triggered twice but I skipped them both. Price dropped far away from the base which I worried about sudden reversal, especially on Friday afternoon.

Setup #3: +665. No comment on this trade while I followed the rules to trade, except I didn't have the gut to hold it until the end.

Have a great weekend y'all.

TCP

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  #24 (permalink)
 AllSeeker 
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zzzz2021 View Post
A super terrible day. I made +$200 for one trade following my setup. But I got out too early for this trade while price kept going up and up for hours. I felt bad at myself for getting out too early. I supposed to call it a day because I do not take any trade half an hour before market close.

Then I completely forgot earnings from Amazon and Apple after 4pm. When price dropped to a key support level, my itchy fingers got triggered. I went in and got washed out. I didn't even get a chance to get out before hitting daily stop loss limit.

Game over. Now, I've to reset my account. Another stupid mistake to learn repeatedly. I know I'm a POS.


tcp

No one who is ballsy enough to admit, accept, address and move ahead is that.


Oh, and I read 16 personalities thing, it was bit of a trend when I was in uni, also fact that all popular Game of Thrones had so many of the example personalities that everyone wanted to find out who was which character in it.

I'm INTJ, probably most people on these trading forums are "Analyst" types anyways

Nvm, point being, whichever you are, you are much better than ball of ego which has plastered all over his post that "I shall conquer markets in 6 months time", or worse "already did so"

So don't worry, we are all in same boat.

Keep trying!

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  #25 (permalink)
zzzz2021
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AllSeeker View Post
No one who is ballsy enough to admit, accept, address and move ahead is that.


Oh, and I read 16 personalities thing, it was bit of a trend when I was in uni, also fact that all popular Game of Thrones had so many of the example personalities that everyone wanted to find out who was which character in it.

I'm INTJ, probably most people on these trading forums are "Analyst" types anyways

Nvm, point being, whichever you are, you are much better than ball of ego which has plastered all over his post that "I shall conquer markets in 6 months time", or worse "already did so"

So don't worry, we are all in same boat.

Keep trying!

Life is harsh for some of us. Came to Canada as a refuge kid who had to work for many different part jobs to support my parents and siblings while attending grade 9 to university. I remember that my first time to watch a movie with some friends is during my 2nd year of university. I didn't even own a computer until I got my first job upon university graduation.

So, time is precious to me. I'm not here to waste my time to pretend for something that I'm not about. If this trading thing doesn't work out for another year or so, I'll have to move on to something else. All I wanted is to make extra income to support my family. That's all.

p.s. What does INTJ stand for? I never saw such acronym here before.

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  #26 (permalink)
 AllSeeker 
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zzzz2021 View Post
Life is harsh for some of us. Came to Canada as a refuge kid who had to work for many different part jobs to support my parents and siblings while attending grade 9 to university. I remember that my first time to watch a movie with some friends is during my 2nd year of university. I didn't even own a computer until I got my first job upon university graduation.

So, time is precious to me. I'm not here to waste my time to pretend for something that I'm not about. If this trading thing doesn't work out for another year or so, I'll have to move on to something else. All I wanted is to make extra income to support my family. That's all.

p.s. What does INTJ stand for? I never saw such acronym here before.



Fully agree, don't want to get into details of my personal troubles here but I certainly get where you are coming from. I was born and brought up by butt poor mostly farming family and my mother killed herself when I was 7 in front of me, worse my father was put on trial falsely with my testimony being the deciding factor in his innocence, needless to say he didn't have any job till he was on trial. By age 21 I was only weighing 41Kg, that's called malnourishment in I think every country that WHO presides over. To make it worse, I did graduation in engineering while doing odd jobs and later MBA in marketing with minor in finance, but due to where I was born, I used to make less than a burger flipper in your part of the word. Relatively that is still fairly large amount here, but you should get the point and see that I also know that what someone born legally in west is blessed with and what we have to fight with our blood to get it.

I'm 33 running now, have bunch of private businesses going on, got married last year, wife also holds a full time job and small craft work business. Oh, and if you are wondering, I'm 67Kg now, not a lot but I'm considered healthy and fit now.

Having said that, grass is always greener on otherside

And this is why, I must insist that you should keep at it, that is of course till you can. For people like us that's usually the only way. And we are in all same boat here.

This turned out to be very personal post. But at the end of it I can only say that only you know your situation best, we are here to just encourage you and support by means possible for us.

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  #27 (permalink)
 Anagami 
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AllSeeker View Post
No one who is ballsy enough to admit, accept, address and move ahead is that.


Oh, and I read 16 personalities thing, it was bit of a trend when I was in uni, also fact that all popular Game of Thrones had so many of the example personalities that everyone wanted to find out who was which character in it.

I'm INTJ, probably most people on these trading forums are "Analyst" types anyways

Nvm, point being, whichever you are, you are much better than ball of ego which has plastered all over his post that "I shall conquer markets in 6 months time", or worse "already did so"

So don't worry, we are all in same boat.

Keep trying!

FORMER INTJ here. As I evolved, so did my personality type... into something like ENFJ, if I remember correctly.

You are never in the wrong place... but sometimes you are in the right place looking at things in the wrong way.
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 matthew28 
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zzzz2021 View Post
p.s. What does INTJ stand for? I never saw such acronym here before.

Personality types. I had never heard the acronym before either and found this page.

https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types

All the categories given seem a little aspirational to me though which must be somewhat unrealistic surely unless it is just for ego massage.
Where are the categories for the people who are unpleasant to be around, or completely incompetent, and so on. There could be a BELL-END category or something for instance.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
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 chipwitch 
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matthew28 View Post
Personality types. I had never heard the acronym before either and found this page.

https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types

All the categories given seem a little aspirational to me though which must be somewhat unrealistic surely unless it is just for ego massage.
Where are the categories for the people who are unpleasant to be around, or completely incompetent, and so on. There could be a BELL-END category or something for instance.

Carl Jung is probably the one we can credit with this, at least in concept. It was eventually popularized by an academic who took Jung's work and created a written test to evaluate the types (Briggs-Meyers or Meyers-Briggs). Jung apparently called them "psychological" types. I think the link you referenced is a demonstration how websites tend to repackage something to have appeal the masses for the purposes of generating click throughs.

Personality is more complex than can be summed up in just 16 variations. As with all attempts to categorize people, they fall way short of perfection. Some accounts from other sites I've read have said that my particular type is one that you might find "unpleasant." And, I certainly can be at times.

Basically, the theory claims to identify 4 "dichotomies" which each can be thought of as spectrum where we all tend to lean one way or the other. For example, introvert/extrovert probably has a slightly different meaning in psychology than what is popular. Neither is bad or good. But, obviously if you're an extrovert you're probably not going to be deeply introspective. Someone who does not have that tendency to be introspective will likely struggle with "trigger finger" more than one who is. It's not saying that extroverts are doomed to be trigger happy. But recognizing that one tends to live life outside their head will probably have to work harder to look inward to their own psychology.

I would venture to guess that everyone of us who has traded has experienced revenge trading. How many different methods are there to overcome it? If there was one method that was consistently helpful every time, everyone would know it and repeat it often to help newcomers. I think the reason it is so hard to help someone is that we do have these different personality types. In the end, it is apparently a deeply personal journey to being a successful trader. If we're going to acknowledge that our personal psychology plays a significant role, and I believe it is the hardest part, then we have to learn to understand and accept ourselves, warts and all. Van Tharp has apparently had great success in helping his students. He does not have a one-type-fit's-all approach, but rather structures different approaches for his students based on their personality type. I believe anyone who has the desire can learn those techniques without the aid of a formal class.

I strongly encourage anyone who believes psychology is a cornerstone to successful trading, who is struggling with impulses consider what it is about their personality (psychology) that is causing repeated unwanted behavior. You are NOT flawed. There is no right personality. You are NOT a POS. There are simply things you have not learned yet because the lessons you've been presented with do not align with some aspect of your personality. The concept of personality types is subjective. It is for the individual to decide what type they are, not some test. But that test will likely reveal things about you, to you, that can only help you to become a successful trader.

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zzzz2021
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AllSeeker View Post
Fully agree, don't want to get into details of my personal troubles here but I certainly get where you are coming from. I was born and brought up by butt poor mostly farming family and my mother killed herself when I was 7 in front of me, worse my father was put on trial falsely with my testimony being the deciding factor in his innocence, needless to say he didn't have any job till he was on trial. By age 21 I was only weighing 41Kg, that's called malnourishment in I think every country that WHO presides over. To make it worse, I did graduation in engineering while doing odd jobs and later MBA in marketing with minor in finance, but due to where I was born, I used to make less than a burger flipper in your part of the word. Relatively that is still fairly large amount here, but you should get the point and see that I also know that what someone born legally in west is blessed with and what we have to fight with our blood to get it.

I'm 33 running now, have bunch of private businesses going on, got married last year, wife also holds a full time job and small craft work business. Oh, and if you are wondering, I'm 67Kg now, not a lot but I'm considered healthy and fit now.

Having said that, grass is always greener on otherside

And this is why, I must insist that you should keep at it, that is of course till you can. For people like us that's usually the only way. And we are in all same boat here.

This turned out to be very personal post. But at the end of it I can only say that only you know your situation best, we are here to just encourage you and support by means possible for us.

What a horrible childhood you had to endure. I'm glad to hear that you have pulled through. You're A REMARKABLE MAN. Really.

What matter now is how you enjoy your life with your loved ones. What I find is that as long as we've a nice and loving family, it worth every effort of us to bring home the bacon. God bless you.

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