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My Trading Quest - a 90 day Trading Course Challenge


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My Trading Quest - a 90 day Trading Course Challenge

  #11 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 3,646 since Jul 2012
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eresults01 View Post
A Quick Update: I will be attending an all-day webinar on Saturday to gather more information in my development of a shortlist. Hopefully, by early next week, I will share my shortlist of courses.

Until then I would like to ask you:

Would you be happy with my goal of averaging $200 per day ($1000 PW) using 1 contract, in 90 days if you were doing this quest? If not, then please tell me why.

Your help is appreciated

Cheers
Garry

Just doing the math here...

Let's say you are trading ES. Current overnight exchange margin is $11660. Let's round this up to $15K...

You start the year with $15K, you average $200 per day for the whole year, just trading 1 contract. That is $50K profit, so your end balance is $65K.

That is 333% annual return.

That is astounding performance. Very, very rare air. And learning how to do this in only 90 days. WOW.


Put another way, you are looking for 4 points a day in ES. Just for reference, a while back I spoke with a medium size outfit in Chicago that traded ES, and their goal was 10-20 points in ES per MONTH. And they did very well with that performance (that would be around 60% annual return on $15K per contract).


IMO, $200 a day average for 1 contract is in "too good to be true" land. Even more so if you expect to be averaging that in 90 short days after starting.

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  #12 (permalink)
 
eresults01's Avatar
 eresults01 
Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, Tradestaion
Trading: US, ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 52 since Apr 2012

Hi sienna,

I have looked at Nobstrades a while ago.

Thanks for you input.

I am looking for a system that will work in all the time frames. Rather then just the US day time.

Cheers
Garry

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  #13 (permalink)
 
eresults01's Avatar
 eresults01 
Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, Tradestaion
Trading: US, ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 52 since Apr 2012


Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your input.

Let's leave the goal at the $200 per say and see how we go.

Cheers
Garry

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  #14 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
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eresults01 View Post
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your input.

Let's leave the goal at the $200 per say and see how we go.

Cheers
Garry


I am rooting for you, for sure.

FWIW, I have talked to and e-mailed with thousands of traders over the years, and I can safely state that the more unrealistic their trading goals are:

1) the more likely they are to fail completely
2) the more likely they are to be taken advantage of by fake trading gurus ("furus")

Learning how to earn $200 per day trading one contract, in only 90 days, is unrealistic.

I'd love to be proven wrong, though, by anyone here with real supporting data (not anecdotes).


I'll stop raining on your parade now, unless specifically asked to reply to something.

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  #15 (permalink)
 
eresults01's Avatar
 eresults01 
Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, Tradestaion
Trading: US, ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 52 since Apr 2012

Hi Kevin,

Please keep commenting as I appreciate it. I may not agree or may want to try something different, but that is ok.

Thanks
Garry

Started this thread
  #16 (permalink)
 
eresults01's Avatar
 eresults01 
Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, Tradestaion
Trading: US, ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 52 since Apr 2012

Worthy of Mention!

Choosing my shortlist has been an interesting and time-consuming exercise.

From the shortlist, I will compare and decide which course I will trial for the first 90-day challenge.

I have decided that I will only choose Futures Trading Courses for my short-list for this Quest.

One of the courses in my top 5 was a Forex course which is worthy of mentioning. It ticked a lot of the boxes and you can read belong my comments about the course.


Tribe of Traders – Forex
Website: https://www.tribeoftraders.com/

What they say about their Company:
  • A Forex company based in London
  • Trades and teaches 2 Semi-Automated Strategies
  • Claim to achieve 74% Success rate consistently trading less than 30 mins per day
  • Focused on Community, Education, Psychology, Money Management and Minimum Effective trading time
  • Platform – MT4
  • If you use their Broker and are profitable then you may have an opportunity to become a Funded Trader
  • 30-day Money-back Guarantee

My Observations:
  • Appear to be trustworthy and care about their community
  • Strategies are simple and appear to have great results
  • Students appear to get good results
  • Easy to do and doesn’t take a lot of time. Initially, I would suggest 1 -2 hours per day (at most)
  • Cost for their trading-business-in-a-box is approx 997 Pounds then 47 Pounds per month
  • 30-day Money-back Guarantee – Not many trading companies are willing to offer a Guarantee!
  • No obvious negatives as long as you want to trade Forex

My Experience with this Company:
  • I have followed this company for a couple of years
  • Watched most of their interviews, videos, webinars and Facebook posts
  • Have a basic understanding of how the systems work
  • Have reviewed and tracked their system trades both live and backtested

Resources

The following resource is a free ebook which explains Forex vs Futures from an interesting perspective:
Note: it requires you to enter your email address but is worth reading.


Feedback

If you have any experience with The Tribe of Traders then please let me know about both your good and bad experiences.

If you have a course to recommend for the Challenge then please send through the details and I will look at it to see how it compares to the shortlist.

Disclaimer

I am not affiliated with any of these companies.

Cheers
Garry

Started this thread
  #17 (permalink)
 
eresults01's Avatar
 eresults01 
Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, Tradestaion
Trading: US, ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 52 since Apr 2012

Trading Course Contender #1

The two trading course contenders are Futures Courses.

From the shortlist, I will compare and decide which course I will trial for the first 90-day challenge.

The first trading course contender is…


IDTA International Day Traders Academy – Futures
Website: https://www.idta.com.au/

What they say about their Company:
  • A Futures trading company based in Australia and with students in over 21 countries
  • Trades and teaches in 3 Live Trading Rooms, Online Courses and Live in House.
  • Performance is posted on the website
  • Appears to have Excellent results from students who are only trading 90 mins per day
  • Focused on Community, Education, Psychology, Money Management, Minimum Effective trading time and the Business of Trading
  • Platform – NT7
  • They have a number of free introductory webinars – Basic intro to IDTA and what they do, a more detailed Workshop on how they trade and a trial period in their Live Trading Room (currently during the European Open).
  • The cost depends upon the course and package. Ranges from about $5000 – $20,000 AUD depending on the course.
    The most expensive is the Trading Business School – 12 month program.
  • On-going monthly costs commence at the end of the package you purchase. Other on-going costs include software and LTR costs.
  • All the courses include a Coaching component
  • They are growing quickly and are innovative with ways to help students

My Observations:
  • Appear to be professional, genuine, trustworthy and care about their community
  • Strategies are simple and appear to have great results with limited daily trading time
  • After discussions with their students, a lot appears to get great results
  • The live trading room (LTR) moderators are excellent, especially Lachy, who trades while he explains very clearly what, where and why he believes what is happening in the markets. His market calls are clear and in advance. I have been in many rooms and he is one of the best, if not the best
  • You won’t be doing this alone … just the information in the Live Trading Rooms is a big asset
  • I was impressed that some of the students outperform the moderator. The moderator is more concerned with the students understanding what is happening in the market than his own results.
  • They have a Learning Pathway to take you from beginner to having your own trading business
  • They lead by example – a number are living the laptop travel life, even Lachy who developed the system is traveling, trading and facilitating in the LTR. Showing it can be done!
  • They are not pushy if you sign up for any of their free introductions
  • The Risk to Reward can be quite high sometimes. They stress, to only trade within your risk limits
  • The cost of the courses is higher than the average course but if you achieve some of the results that their students are achieving then the return on investment would be fantastic

Response to recent world events and volatility:
  • Results continue to be exceptional
  • Commenced promotions on the use of Micro Instruments to limit the risk
  • Educating members on Health and Mindset in Challenging Times – 4 part online series

My Experience with this Company:
  • I have followed this company for a number of years
  • Watched most of their videos, webinars, conferences and Facebook posts
  • Have an understanding of how their systems work
  • Know and followed a number of students who have had mixed results. Some fantastic but others only break even
  • The results over the last year have been incredible for a lot of their students and they make it usually in 90 mins of trading
  • The cost of the courses is higher than the average course in the industry
  • In the last couple of years, the company appears to be getting much better results

Resources

IDTA – Online Free Worshop https://www.idta.com.au/workshop
IDTA – Live On Demand Introductory webinar https://www.idta.com.au/on-demand
Live Trading Room – Trading Performance
https://www.idta.com.au/category/members-performance/
Live Trading Room Tour https://www.idta.com.au/live-trading-room/

Feedback

If you have any experience with IDTA then please let me know about both your good and bad experiences.

If you have a course to recommend for the Challenge then please send through the details and I will look at it to see how it compares to the shortlist.


Disclaimer

I am not affiliated with any of these companies.

Started this thread
  #18 (permalink)
 
eresults01's Avatar
 eresults01 
Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, Tradestaion
Trading: US, ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 52 since Apr 2012

Trading Course Contender #2

The second and final contender for my first 90-day Challenge

I will now compare the two contenders and decide which I believe will help me on my journey to profitability.

In no particular order – The second trading course is…



Apex Investing – Futures
Website: https://apexinvesting.com/bootcamp/

What they say about their Company:
  • Predominantly a Futures trading company based in the US
  • Trades and teaches in 1 Live Trading Room which is open 24 x 7, Online Courses, Skype mentor rooms, regular webinars, and Facebook group
  • 2 Moderators, trade, call and discuss the trades when appropriate. They are in the live room from 9:30 EST until at least 11:00 am.
  • Free Sniper Trading Bootcamp (no Credit card) with access to course, training, tools, indicators and trading room. Free for 30 days than currently only $1 for the next 30 days.
  • The Bootcamp is structured to give you all the tools and support to be successful
  • Appears to have Excellent results from students
  • Focused on making the trading as easy possible for the students, Making 3 profitable trades and finishing for the day, Community and regular Education
  • Recently introduced a Semi-automated Trade Assistant
  • Platform – NT7
  • The Sniper Bootcamp focuses on trading the NQ but the methodology can work on any market
  • After your first 30 days (free) and your next 30 days(currently $1) then the cost depends upon the plan. Plans are Sniper, Gold or Platinum and you can pay monthly, annual or lifetime. The starting costs are Monthly $200 pm, Annual $2000 or Lifetime $4000. The lifetime is definitely the best value.
  • The Bootcamp is for everyone from beginner to experienced
  • Support is excellent
  • They are growing quickly and are innovative with ways to help students

My Observations:
  • Appear to be very knowledgeable, genuine, trustworthy and care about their students being profitable
  • Darrell, who is the owner of the business makes some very large trades with this method
  • Trade setups are easy but need practice
  • You must understand the rules as others in the rooms may not be following the rules
  • In an effort to make the system easier they regularly slightly modify the rules to some setups – this can be good and bad. I appreciate why they do it.
  • Students have commented that the current system that Apex is using, is the best system Apex have had
  • Students appear to achieve their goals quickly at the start of the US open
  • The cost, the length of the trial and what you receive is very unusual in the trading industry
  • The cost after the trial is very reasonable

Response to recent world events and volatility:
  • Results continue to be exceptional
  • They have changed the market that they focus on due to the increased volatility. They now recommend ES (mini) or the MES (micro) as the main market to start with.
  • I am really impressed by how they make it so you can try and trade their system for very little money upfront or when you start trading. A lot of people do not have the money at present and this solution is very viable.
  • Basically, you could start testing and trading this method for Free in month 1.
  • In Month 2 it will cost $1 for all the tools and support.
  • If you are confident and/or didn’t want to risk your own capital, you could sign up with a Funding Company that Apex has just partnered with.
  • This will allow you to pass a trading test which requires you to trade a minimum of 10 days and reach a profit goal based on the package you purchase.
  • $160 for 30 days, would allow you to trade with up to 8 contracts and the target is $3000. After you pass the test the only cost is approx $90 per month. They pay you 100% for the first $8000 profit you make and then 80%. If you are with them after 1 year then the profit share to you is 90%
  • The rules that the Funding Company is basically only 1 rule. Nothing like the other Funding Companies that seem to want to fail you and have many rules.
My Experience with this Company:

  • I signed up for some information about this company in 2014, but didn’t remember it until I was talking to the owner
  • Had discussions with the Owner and he happily answered all my questions
  • Watched most of their videos, webinars and Facebook posts
  • Have an understanding of how their system work
  • Followed and discussed results with several of their students. All positive comments. The results vary but generally achieving 60 – 90% wins.

Resources

Apex Sniper Bootcamp Info and Video https://apexinvesting.com/bootcamp/

APEX Investing Facebook https://www.facebook.com/apexinvesting/


Feedback

If you have any experience with APEX Investing, especially the new Sniper Bootcamp then please let me know about both your good and bad experiences.

If you have a course to recommend for the Challenge then please send through the details and I will look at it to see how it compares to the shortlist.


Disclaimer

I am not affiliated with any of these companies. ​

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  #19 (permalink)
 
eresults01's Avatar
 eresults01 
Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, Tradestaion
Trading: US, ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 52 since Apr 2012

PART A - Winning Trading Course and Why!

I thought this would be easier!

Deciding between the final two Trading Course contenders for my first 90-Day Challenge has been harder then I expected.

Can you pick what one I have chosen?​



Just remember: No matter how good a course is … I must put the work in!

No course is perfect, so choosing one is about finding the one that is the closest fit to what I require.

In case you missed the last two posts, the two courses I am choosing between are:

IDTA International Day Traders Academy – Futures
Website: https://www.idta.com.au/

Apex Investing – Futures
Website: https://apexinvesting.com/bootcamp/


Let’s review some of the criteria I require in a course and how these courses compare:


Trust and transparency

After discussions and observations with the Owners, moderators, and students, both these companies appear trustworthy with a high level of transparency.

Are they trading what they teach, successfully?

IDTA has a number of strategies that the students use based on their experience and risk profile. The moderators and owners do exactly the same, if the setup meets the individual’s trading plan then they trade it. So, yes they do trade what they teach and achieve great results (observed).

Apex Investing has two moderators who use the basic setups and some slightly more advanced setups. The advanced strategies are slowly being introduced to students as they become more competent with the basics.

Are their students achieving good results using the system?

IDTA has a number of students who appear to be outperforming the moderators.

Apex Investing has been around for a number of years but the Sniper Bootcamp focus has only been around since mid-2019. The main focus is for the students to achieve 3 net winning trades and then stop trading. Most of the students within a short period achieve this goal. The owner has some very impressive trades on most days.

If I was to achieve what the students achieve, would the results meet my goals?

From all my research and observations, It would appear that if I put the work in then I should reach my goals using either of the courses.

Can I see myself doing this course and trading this way?

The strategies from both of the companies appear to be relatively easy to learn and implement. As long as I put the work in, I can see myself using either company. The strategies are very different from each other.

Is it possible to be profitable in 90 days using this system?

From all my research and observations, It would appear that if I put the work in then I should be profitable in 90 days, using either of the courses.

Continued in Part B

Started this thread
  #20 (permalink)
 
eresults01's Avatar
 eresults01 
Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, Tradestaion
Trading: US, ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 52 since Apr 2012


PART B - Winning Trading Course and Why!

How much is it going to cost, initial and ongoing costs? Is this good value?

This is one of the big separators between the two companies.

IDTA

The cost depends upon the course and package. Ranges from about $5000 – $20,000 AUD depending on the course. The most expensive is the Trading Business School – 12-month program.
On-going monthly costs commence at the end of the package you purchase. Other on-going costs include software and LTR costs.

Apex Investing

Basically, you could start testing and trading this method for Free in month 1. All tools, training, and support are provided.
In Month 2 it will cost US $1 for all the tools, training and support.

If you are confident and/or don’t want to risk your own capital, you could sign up with a Funding Company that Apex has just partnered with.

This will allow you to pass a trading test which requires you to trade a minimum of 10 days and reach a profit goal based on the package you purchase. The cost is US $160 for 30 days. Apex at present, have discounts on the first month

$160 for 30 days, would allow you to trade with up to 8 contracts and the target is $3000. After you pass the test the only cost is approx US $90 per month. They pay you 100% for the first $8000 profit you make and then 80%. If you are with them after 1 year then the profit share to you is 90%
The rules that the Funding Company is basically only 1 rule. Nothing like the other Funding Companies that seem to want to fail you and have many rules.

Apex Investing does offer more advanced courses but does not push them. They believe you can be profitable just with the Sniper Bootcamp Course.

Is the Risk/Reward for the trading setups within my risk profile?

Both companies have high win rates which can often hide the risk/reward factor.

The risk/reward refers to the risk you have when you enter a trade. So if with a stop of $100 then the risk is $100. The reward is what profit you are aiming for. So if you have a stop (risk) of $100 and a profit target (reward) of $100, then the Risk/reward would be 1:1. A lot of companies suggest that a 1:1 is what people should aim for. Yes, that would be nice but market conditions don’t always allow for that.

IDTA uses market action to determine where the stops are placed and as soon as the market supports reducing the risk then they move the stop. I have observed, especially in this current high volatility market the initial risk/reward for IDTA to be in the range from 1:1 to 6:1. What this means is that if you lose 1 trade and your risk/reward is 3:1 then you will need 3 winning trades to be back to being even. This assumes that the risk dollars and the reward dollars are equal in each trade.

As you become more advanced IDTA teaches you how to go for longer targets which the R:R.

They stress that the higher risk trades should only be taken if you and your account can afford to risk that amount. The other option is to use micros instead of mini contracts to reduce the dollar risk.

Apex Investing also uses market action to determine the stop location. Basically, it works out as a risk/reward of approximately 2.2:1. Methods to reduce the risk during the trade are discussed in the course.

Trailing and longer targets are taught as you become more experienced. This allows the R:R to reduce.

As part of the Bootcamp, Apex Investing has used mini and micro charts for their trades.

If I have a problem, will I be supported in a timely fashion

Both companies respond to problems in a timely fashion using different methods.

It is important to say that in both, it is essential to ask for help if you are struggling. And if someone doesn’t answer your question then ask it again.

IDTA uses the course coaching, Live Trading Room, private Facebook group, Hub and directly to the head office. They operate 3 live trading rooms with moderators per day. They are the Euro Open, pre US Open and US Open.

The Hub is a group of IDTA traders within a geographical area, who meet monthly or at regular periods. The Hubs can be via the internet or in person. Sometimes all the global hubs connect for meetings. Hubs are only as good as the people and leaders in it. From discussions with hub members, it would appear that they work really well and support is always available form the hubs.

Apex Investing use in the course stresses that you need to ask questions and post charts (both wins and losses) to be a success. They have a roadmap to walk you through the start, setup, and sequence to learn. This includes recorded videos, checklists, regular weekly (1 or 2 PW) live training where you can ask any questions, a Facebook group to post charts or questions in and a trading room that stays open 24 x 7.

The trading room is where anyone can ask questions and post charts at any time of the day or night. Live charts are streamed in this room at all times. The two moderators are in the room form 930 am US EST until at least 11 am. The focus is usually on one market where they call trades and discuss the reason to enter or stay out of trades.

Darrell, the owner and one of the moderators will often be in the trading room at other times of the day or night where he may share his wisdom, answer questions or just be trading.

After the first two months and you have joined Apex then you will be invited into a small group (approx 20) where you have skype access to a small group of traders who also share questions, charts, and support. The two moderators regularly pop into these groups to answer questions and give support.

So, you always have somewhere to ask questions and get help if needed.

Does the course cover things from the basics of running a trading business?

Both courses take you from beginner to futures to running a trading business.

Does the company incorporate continuous improvement into the business?

Yes, both of the companies do incorporate CI into the business.

IDTA appears to fully test and evaluate any potential improvements before implementing them. The basic structure has not changed in a number of years, only slight improvements have been made.

Apex Investing has only introduced the Sniper Bootcamp over the last year and has made a number of small changes or clarifications along the way.

Check out Part C ... coming soon

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Last Updated on May 18, 2020


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