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Getting Funded: Here's my story


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Getting Funded: Here's my story

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  #1 (permalink)
Delhi, India
 
 
Posts: 6 since Oct 2019
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So, I've had in initial foray into getting funded with Earn2Trade ($50K account). I failed due to the position sizing requirement. I had a three-lot stop order instead of just two. When I set the stop order I had planned on reversing a trade at that level. However, I had cut down my position size earlier from two contracts to one and then forgot to adjust the stop order to reflect that change. Long story short, I failed in my first attempt and need to pay up and try again. Getting my mindset right before giving it another go.

On that note, I have considered going with OneUp Trader as they seem to have slightly higher Daily Loss and Drawdown limits. Will update when I decide. That's all for now.

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  #3 (permalink)
cajamarca
 
 
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sorry, What do you think about leelotrading?

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  #4 (permalink)
Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
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Showmytrading View Post
sorry, What do you think about leelotrading?

Lots of discussion here:

Good luck with your thoughts and trading NekkieTrada.

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  #5 (permalink)
Delhi, India
 
 
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matthew28 View Post
...

Good luck with your thoughts and trading NekkieTrada.

Thanks, @matthew28. Will share my story when I get going with the eval in a coupla weeks.

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  #6 (permalink)
baltimore md/usa
 
 
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First attempt at funded trading. Getting close to phase 1 at topstep trader. So far 9 days at $8700 in profits in 150K combine, still more of a follower of couple of twitter accounts for ideas as i polish my own strategy.

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  #7 (permalink)
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zest View Post
First attempt at funded trading. Getting close to phase 1 at topstep trader. So far 9 days at $8700 in profits in 150K combine, still more of a follower of couple of twitter accounts for ideas as i polish my own strategy.

You might want to start your own journal, rather than posting in NekkieTrada's journal.
That way if you have any thoughts while polishing your own strategy, you have your own journal thread to ask them in.
The "Trading Journals" section is open to anybody, (the "Elite Trading Journals" require one to have paid for forum membership to either post in or read those sections).

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  #8 (permalink)
Delhi, India
 
 
Posts: 6 since Oct 2019
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So, here's my update. Tried a couple of different ones: OneUp Trader and Earn2Trade. Didn't fare well and bombed out. Reason: I didn't measure up to the required standards.

What I liked about them: Ability to trade full size accounts for a relatively small fee.
What I disliked about them:
Too many restrictions trading around news (fair enough except in cases where a med-impact speech needs to finish before you can trade and it is hard to know when the speaker if done with their speech unless you are watching the speech live.)
Their dreaded "trailing drawdown" rules. In volatile markets, if a trader is not quick enough to close their position or lock in profits with trailing stops, they lose the account.
Anyways, it was a good learning experience and I am glad I went through it. Will I try again? Nope.
What am I doing now? I've just funded a tiny account so that I can trade micro-eminis. I will be switching between SIM and live trading as I go. I need to get my act together with scaling in and scaling out.
With the self-quarantine thing going on around the world, now is a good time to get started.
Might update this journal on a weekly basis if there is something of significance to share.
My main focus now is to get risk management right.

Here are the rules I have set for myself:
Rule No. 1: Never risk more than 2% on a single trade idea
Rule No. 2: Max loss per day is 10% of the day's starting balance
Rule No. 3: Stop trading if live account balance has dropped 20% from the day's starting balance. Demo trade until I have fixed bad habits/overcome my weaknesses/learnt something new. On regaining confidence, go back to live trading.

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  #9 (permalink)
Elite_Member
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NekkieTrada View Post
So, here's my update. Tried a couple of different ones: OneUp Trader and Earn2Trade. Didn't fare well and bombed out. Reason: I didn't measure up to the required standards.

What I liked about them: Ability to trade full size accounts for a relatively small fee.
What I disliked about them:
Too many restrictions trading around news (fair enough except in cases where a med-impact speech needs to finish before you can trade and it is hard to know when the speaker if done with their speech unless you are watching the speech live.)
Their dreaded "trailing drawdown" rules. In volatile markets, if a trader is not quick enough to close their position or lock in profits with trailing stops, they lose the account.

Surprised you didn't go with Topstep Trader, you only have to be flat a minute before and after a few major news events news, and apart from the Crude Oil Inventories or FOMC reports they are all before the US RTH equity markets open ( https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000140767-What-economic-releases-do-I-need-to-be-flat-for- ).
Your drawdown limit is fixed at the beginning of the day too, or the beginning of the week for the micro account, and doesn't trail your profit up on a good day.

Having said all that though, micros are probably the best way to go, especially with current volatility. Good luck with your account.

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  #10 (permalink)
Delhi, India
 
 
Posts: 6 since Oct 2019
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matthew28 View Post
Surprised you didn't go with Topstep Trader, you only have to be flat a minute before and after a few major news events news, and apart from the Crude Oil Inventories or FOMC reports they are all before the US RTH equity markets open ( ).
Your drawdown limit is fixed at the beginning of the day too, or the beginning of the week for the micro account, and doesn't trail your profit up on a good day.

Having said all that though, micros are probably the best way to go, especially with current volatility. Good luck with your account.

I did consider Topstep and then was dissuaded by the some stating that the two-step process (Combines 1 and 2) makes it that much harder to reach your targets. If I am not mistaken, a trader must hit the profit target twice. Hmmm... with that said, for my style of trading, that drawdown limit would've made a huge difference. I love to let my profits run before beginning to scale down or close the trade. Oh well... for the next 21 days, I am all in with my micro account. At the end of this period, I will report back with my results.

I value your input a lot, @matthew28. Thanks heaps, mate.

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  #11 (permalink)
Delhi, India
 
 
Posts: 6 since Oct 2019
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Update: Down about 28% with my micro-account. So, have stopped trading.

Things I did right:
Took most of the trades that met my criteria and even held some long enough
Didn't go overboard trading each and every setup. Was very selective.
Traded prudently for a few sessions and made some good progress.
Things I messed up:
Depended on Rithmic's Risk Parameters to take me out of a trade and that led to a much larger loss than I had anticipated. Should've used stop loss instead
Didn't practise using "Strategies" feature of Multicharts thoroughly on demo before using it on live trades. Led to confusion and therefore bigger losses than usual.
Continued to trade beyond my 10% loss limit (Rithmic Pro was not open at that time and exceeded daily loss limit)
Anyways, looking forward to funding my account in the first week of May 2020. Will demo trade and get really familiar with Multicharts in the meantime. The key to trade management is in using Multicharts' Strategies, especially in fast moving and volatile markets that we are witnessing now.

Back when I am ready to

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  #12 (permalink)
Ostrava Czech Republic
 
 
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NekkieTrada View Post
Rule No. 1: Never risk more than 2% on a single trade idea

I am somehow surprised, that people seem to often overlook the parameters of funded accounts.
You basically just get a very small account with insane leverage possibilities, because they want people to fail and reset.
If you indeed count 2%, you can only calculate it from the money available to trailing.
So usually a "100k" has only 5k to trailing - 100 USD!!!
Now ask yourself, who trades a 100k with 4 micros like he should?

Awesome business model for the funding companies, not so much for the traders. Nonetheless might be still better than trading your own money until you are really good.

Btw. anyone here, who managed to withdraw money with leeloo ?

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  #13 (permalink)
New Haven, CT
 
 
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biotic View Post
I am somehow surprised, that people seem to often overlook the parameters of funded accounts.
You basically just get a very small account with insane leverage possibilities, because they want people to fail and reset.
If you indeed count 2%, you can only calculate it from the money available to trailing.
So usually a "100k" has only 5k to trailing - 100 USD!!!
Now ask yourself, who trades a 100k with 4 micros like he should?

Awesome business model for the funding companies, not so much for the traders. Nonetheless might be still better than trading your own money until you are really good.

Btw. anyone here, who managed to withdraw money with leeloo ?

It's no that I overlooked everything you said but that in the past, I have lost money I could not afford to lose and kept digging a deeper and deeper hole, that I saw the funded trader path as a safer way to participate in futures markets.

That being said I passed the mini gauntlet after 2 months and as statistics would predict blew up in a few days. I have been working to get funded again but have decided to step back for a few months. I have a job that has become too demanding for me to focus on both pursuits and the stress has been too much, causing me to make errors and become downright indifferent to either.

The funded account may not be the best solution but may be the only one for many with skill and time but not enough money.

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  #14 (permalink)
Ostrava Czech Republic
 
 
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Sorry, my comment was not directed at anyone specific, but since risk management is key in trading I am really surprised their illusion does work so nicely.
I can not even count the amounts of posts on the OUP board I wrote to make people rethink their risk management and not to fall to those illusionary numbers.

Truth is, trading is ultra hard. And even harder, if you trade while working full time.
It really takes a long time to understand the market - and even if you do, you can still make silly mistakes.

I think you do the right thing - key is always to conserve your capital. And taking a break can be used to analyze your mistakes and create a strategy for your success.
The best way to start a trading career is probably:
-First doing some SIM to verify you are good enough for the next step.
-Then do some demo evaluations and once you are ready you go to payed evaluation.
-And once you can get funded and keep your funded account, you take back your money and funding your own account.
... Or you might want to stay with funding companies, so you can safely trade higher leverage, as you would with your own money.

To be successful in the market you need a system that works and has defined entries and an exit strategy.
But what many new traders have to learn is, that the handling of the trade is even more important. And in case you do not use automated systems (i have yet to see one, that is really doing a good job in avoiding most bad entries) it is where your softs-kills come into play. And most of us (especially me) have no ideal skillset for a trader.

So we need to work on ourselves, especially the discipline to stick to rules you have set yourself. The patience to wait for the right moment. Get rid of fear and greed, that influence our trading negatively. And the good thing is, that this might actually help us to be a better version of ourselves, not just in trading, but also in all other aspects of life...

Hope you can come up with a training plan, how to tackle your weaknesses and improve your discipline.
And once ready, being able to keep your funded account.

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  #15 (permalink)
Rovigo (ITALY)
 
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biotic View Post
I am somehow surprised, that people seem to often overlook the parameters of funded accounts.
You basically just get a very small account with insane leverage possibilities, because they want people to fail and reset.
If you indeed count 2%, you can only calculate it from the money available to trailing.
So usually a "100k" has only 5k to trailing - 100 USD!!!
Now ask yourself, who trades a 100k with 4 micros like he should?

Awesome business model for the funding companies, not so much for the traders. Nonetheless might be still better than trading your own money until you are really good.

Btw. anyone here, who managed to withdraw money with leeloo ?

Hi, I just read this post and I don't agree with your vision. In topstep you can trade with just one contract for as much as you want, there is no need to increase size. In that case you can take a 150K account and trade one contract at the time. Since Nasdaq notional value is around 250K if you trade 1 contract you have a 2:1 leverage which is nothing.

I have trade my own account before trading with TST and lost over 85K over the years. I think that 99,9% of the people would be better off by trying topstep many many times before going with their own real money. Most of the people have no idea of what they are doing.
I went through it and I lost so much money.

I have now a lot of experince trading, thanks to TST and I learn to manage risk. I passsed TST many time, and I lost my funded account a couple of times, but I learnt something.

With real money you have much more leverage than with TST. If you have 150K account with todays margins you can potentially trade 150 contracts, and even 300 with some browsers. On top of this with most of the brokers you can leverage on the money that you just made without waiting for the next day. So if you open an account with 3K you can trade 3 minis, if you gain 1000 USD then you can immediately trade 4K, which does not happen in TST.

I know many people find TST impossible, and they blame the company but the reality is that they don't have any clue about risk management. If you give them a 4 millions account they willl blow it up in 3 months.

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  #16 (permalink)
Rovigo (ITALY)
 
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NekkieTrada View Post
So, I've had in initial foray into getting funded with Earn2Trade ($50K account). I failed due to the position sizing requirement. I had a three-lot stop order instead of just two. When I set the stop order I had planned on reversing a trade at that level. However, I had cut down my position size earlier from two contracts to one and then forgot to adjust the stop order to reflect that change. Long story short, I failed in my first attempt and need to pay up and try again. Getting my mindset right before giving it another go.

On that note, I have considered going with OneUp Trader as they seem to have slightly higher Daily Loss and Drawdown limits. Will update when I decide. That's all for now.

take it easy, to get funded and keep the account it will take it around 2 to 3 years. It's not easy and keeping the account is even more difficult.
If you have been trading live for less than 3 years you are a "beginner" (don't take it as an offense) it takes a long time to learn trading.

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  #17 (permalink)
Toronto Canada
 
 
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I think one advantage with the combines is that you would avoid being on the hook for a catastrophic mistake. Of course it shouldn't happen anyway but it may be a big load off one's shoulders to know one is losing the maximum of the combine cost (e.g., $150-300), while still having the pressure of dealing with real money to an extent.

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  #18 (permalink)
Ostrava Czech Republic
 
 
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@SBtrader82
Well, we probably did not understand each other correctly, as I wrote:

The best way to start a trading career is probably:
-First doing some SIM to verify you are good enough for the next step.
-Then do some demo evaluations and once you are ready you go to payed evaluation.
-And once you can get funded and keep your funded account, you take back your money and funding your own account.
... Or you might want to stay with funding companies, so you can safely trade higher leverage, as you would with your own money.

But the key is, that evaluations are set up in a way, that make traders lose their accounts.
Their main business model is based on fees.

I think trailing is ok, but they should really offer reasonable trailing. It is cool to call an account "100k", but why only have 2-3k trailing drawdown but offer 15 contracts? That is so silly and just calls for people to fail. The problem in trading is that we are allowed to play by our own rules, but few have the discipline to play it right (risk management).

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  #19 (permalink)
Ostrava Czech Republic
 
 
Posts: 7 since Mar 2018
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....btw I am going to try out that 38 bucks offer from LeeLoo, so far all good.
Love their low comissions - only .58 for micros it seems.

What confuses me is that i see no rule that prevents a "lucky shot"...
Also they clearly state, that the funded account is a sim one, where they will or will not copy trades.
Ok with me as long as they are open about it.

Only downside seems to be, that it takes quite some time to be able to withdraw some money (you probably want to build up cushion anyways, though)

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  #20 (permalink)
Austin
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, SC, MT
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biotic View Post
@SBtrader82
...but they should really offer reasonable trailing...

You say that, but you haven't really articulated how that would benefit TST. TST "should" do what benefits TST over the long term. That, presumably, will involve providing an attractive value proposition to customers... but not so attractive that it leaves profits on the table to an excessive degree.

Once the product parameters are set, it's up to the customer to maximize their own benefit. That may very well involve trading smaller than max contracts at critical points. It may involve not buying TST's products at all, which will provide feedback (from one trader's perspective) about what TST "should" be doing.

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  #21 (permalink)
Rovigo (ITALY)
 
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biotic View Post
@SBtrader82
Well, we probably did not understand each other correctly, as I wrote:

The best way to start a trading career is probably:
-First doing some SIM to verify you are good enough for the next step.
-Then do some demo evaluations and once you are ready you go to payed evaluation.
-And once you can get funded and keep your funded account, you take back your money and funding your own account.
... Or you might want to stay with funding companies, so you can safely trade higher leverage, as you would with your own money.

But the key is, that evaluations are set up in a way, that make traders lose their accounts.
Their main business model is based on fees.

I think trailing is ok, but they should really offer reasonable trailing. It is cool to call an account "100k", but why only have 2-3k trailing drawdown but offer 15 contracts? That is so silly and just calls for people to fail. The problem in trading is that we are allowed to play by our own rules, but few have the discipline to play it right (risk management).

@biotic I agree with you that TopStep mainly makes money out of commission, but the point is that you don't need to "set up the evaluation in a way that traders lose money", I think TopStep can set up the evaluation in any possible way and the trader will lose money most of the time.
Trader lose money because market works in such a way to take money out of beginners. TST set the evaluation in a way that once it gives you money they must be protected.
There have been days lately in which Nasdaq was making moves of 6000 USD per contract, multiply that by 15 and you have a potential loss or gain of 90.000 USD. If TopStep does not put any limit on the behaviour of the traders they could potentially lose 90K in less than 10 minutes.

Concerning the 15 contracts, you don't have to use them. I think they are just a way to attract people. If you are smart you can trade 15 micros that are like one mini and a half. Or you can trade 15 contracts of products that are smaller, like corn o soy etc...
To make money with TST you must be an advanced trader, you must have experience.

I think that traders can do a very simple experiment, instead of trading with TopStep, they can open an account and with 5K and trade micros. Any broker will allow you to trade up to 10 contracts (margin is usually 500 usd per contract), then they can trade by their own rule: no max daily loss, no trailing drawdown nothing. Trading micro son 5K is like trading minis on 50K.
In less than one week, they will have zero in their account. ....and if they open an account with one million dollars it will be exactly the same.

I have been there, I blew up 85.000USD in 6 month... and I considered myself as a smart guy, engineering degree, Mba etc...
Trading is a tough business.

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  #22 (permalink)
San Francisco CA USA
 
 
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Best of luck in your future endeavors.

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