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Eternal learners trading Journal (Demo)
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Eternal learners trading Journal (Demo)

  #1 (permalink)
Mumbai, India
 
 
Posts: 46 since Jan 2019
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Eternal learners trading Journal (Demo)

Hello friends, I'm a relatively noobish person to this field. Here I'm making an attempt at getting rid of all my accumulated and some in built personality faults which have sipped into my trading. This journal will be in tune with that goal in mind.

Some key points I want to make clear;
  1. I'm from India, currently it is not legal/easy to directly trade foreign markets for small time retailers, so brokers and platforms in use will be different from what majority of people here are used to.
  2. Due to the same reason mentioned above and me being noobish, I want to do this on demo account and not in my actual account on which I occasionally trade my local national exchange. I'm very afraid of losing money in experimentation phase, so please be patient with me on that. Also, I use MP for my local trading and option strategies, but here wont be doing the same, at least for time being.
  3. To keep things simpler and consistent, I'll use tradingviews demo account. Which also allows me to test things on international markets without actually having to open account at any international broking firm and I can code my own indicators there if needed, so it works out well.
  4. What I'm using for trading on this demo is Demark Sequential indicator and simple technical analysis. I'm not proficient in it as I only started using it 2 weeks ago, so my understanding might be all over the place. Note that I also understand that there have been past legal boundaries set for Demark indicators on this forum, so I hope it is okay for me to use and post charts of them. If it is not okay I'll only keep it to commentary.
  5. TD seq indicator used in my charts is from BroBear user on TV, so if you like what you see I would suggest to head there and like and follow his work.

As I mentioned, I'm rather new and in kind of eternal learning phase, be sure to comment and guide me on this. It would be of immense help.

I would also wait for nod from mods here before starting due to demark issue in this case. If all is okay, I will post charts like this

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It would take me some time to trade and catch a move like that though, so be patient

I would also like someone to be kind and tell me generally, what % or dollar amount expenses one incurs like brokerage and spread loss on ES mini and micro like instruments if traded, so I can keep it realistic on deducting from demo money made (if any).

I hope this is allowed and community here is fine with demo trading journal till I move to real money with this method.

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Dallas, TX
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, TS
Broker/Data: IB, Oanda
Favorite Futures: ES, MES, MNQ, MYM
 
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Welcome LastDino


Best of luck and look forward to more posts. I like your charts as well.

Take care,

K

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  #4 (permalink)
Lenox, Ma
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS
Favorite Futures: US Equities
 
Posts: 285 since Dec 2018
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I pay $7 round trip for one E-mini contract. If you enter with market orders then I would err on the side of caution and assume two ticks of slippage or $25 per round trip per contract.

Conservative Total: $32 per round trip per contract.

If you enter and exit with limits exclusively then you're only in it the cost of the commission.

Best of luck to you!

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  #5 (permalink)
Super Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
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bobwest's Avatar
 
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mtzimmer1 View Post
I pay $7 round trip for one E-mini contract. If you enter with market orders then I would err on the side of caution and assume two ticks of slippage or $25 per round trip per contract.

Conservative Total: $32 per round trip per contract.

If you enter and exit with limits exclusively then you're only in it the cost of the commission.

Best of luck to you!

There are other reasons to be with TOS, but I see that their commissions are still not among them.

The general standard commission for a round-turn ES trade is about $4 per contract, all in, often a bit less, and has been for a long time. TOS, of course is not just a futures broker, which may matter to you. I know you do other types of trading besides futures.

Seven bucks for futures is still kind of high. Really high, actually.

I think commissions can be negotiated with TOS, based on what others have posted over time, which I suggest you might want to look into. Things like account size and activity matter, but it's just a phone call. Check with other brokers and you will have some ammo if you decide to call.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote

Last edited by bobwest; October 9th, 2019 at 05:19 PM.
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  #6 (permalink)
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LastDino View Post
I would also like someone to be kind and tell me generally, what % or dollar amount expenses one incurs like brokerage and spread loss on ES mini and micro like instruments if traded, so I can keep it realistic on deducting from demo money made (if any).

I hope this is allowed and community here is fine with demo trading journal till I move to real money with this method.

As mentioned, you can think in terms of $4 or so commission and fees for a "round turn" (total for the buy and the sell). There are a number of fees that go into the total or "all in" number, much of which is not actual broker commission. Data and exchange fees are part of it too. Take the $4 number as a typical "emini" commission (ES, NQ, YM, etc.)

Now, with the new "micro" contracts (MES, MNQ, MYM, etc.) think in terms of around a dollar, sometime a bit less. Since the micros are one-tenth the value per contract as the minis, it is not exactly proportionate for the commission and fees to be one-fourth, but that's how it is.

When you talk about losses due to the spread, what @mtzimmer1 mentioned with market orders is reasonable and conservative... that is, you can count on losing 1 tick with a market order, which is $12.50 on ES, and if you want to be sure, then 2 ticks is going to be a safe bet, so that's $25.

Notice that if your trading software is any good in terms of how it handles sim trades, it should be fairly accurate in allowing for this kind of slippage, so you wouldn't need to factor this in. (In other words, it shouldn't assume that you always get the best possible price on your fill.) If you are doing "demo" trading without a good platform to figure in the slippage, use these numbers to be sure.

I don't know how well TradingView handles this. You'll want to see how well it manages. I would assume this amout of additional slippage on market orders until then, just so you aren't unrealistic.

Bob.

------------

Edit: using a demo account (usually called "sim") is fine. Just make it clear in your journal what you are doing. Many, many people journal sim trading, or go back and forth. Just be aware that sim trading is basically unrealistic in one sense: you have no real money at risk, which makes it much less stressful psychologically than real-money trading. You will see the difference when you make the switch to live trading.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote

Last edited by bobwest; October 9th, 2019 at 05:21 PM.
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  #7 (permalink)
Mumbai, India
 
 
Posts: 46 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 54 given, 91 received

@kareem40

Quoting 
Best of luck and look forward to more posts. I like your charts as well.

Thank you, you are too kind

@mtzimmer1

Quoting 
I pay $7 round trip for one E-mini contract. If you enter with market orders then I would err on the side of caution and assume two ticks of slippage or $25 per round trip per contract.

Conservative Total: $32 per round trip per contract.

If you enter and exit with limits exclusively then you're only in it the cost of the commission.

Thank you! Made adjustments for that brokerage in a/c, generally only exits are market orders, and there is indeed some slippage accounted by TV, just wasn't sure how much.

@bobwest

Quoting 
There are other reasons to be with TOS, but I see that their commissions are still not among them.

The general standard commission for a round-turn ES trade is about $4 per contract, all in, often a bit less, and has been for a long time. TOS, of course is not just a futures broker, which may matter to you. I know you do other types of trading besides futures.

Seven bucks for futures is still kind of high. Really high, actually.

I think commissions can be negotiated with TOS, based on what others have posted over time, which I suggest you might want to look into. Things like account size and activity matter, but it's just a phone call. Check with other brokers and you will have some ammo if you decide to call.

I wonder if someday I would manage to have an account with TOS, I think IB has local branch here but don't think they allow international account yet. Again legal complications, but going by local trend I assumed IB was like the cheapest category broker in US? Am I wrong?



Quoting 
As mentioned, you can think in terms of $4 or so commission and fees for a "round turn" (total for the buy and the sell). There are a number of fees that go into the total or "all in" number, much of which is not actual broker commission. Data and exchange fees are part of it too. Take the $4 number as a typical "emini" commission (ES, NQ, YM, etc.)

Now, with the new "micro" contracts (MES, MNQ, MYM, etc.) think in terms of around a dollar, sometime a bit less. Since the micros are one-tenth the value per contract as the minis, it is not exactly proportionate for the commission and fees to be one-fourth, but that's how it is.

When you talk about losses due to the spread, what @mtzimmer1 mentioned with market orders is reasonable and conservative... that is, you can count on losing 1 tick with a market order, which is $12.50 on ES, and if you want to be sure, then 2 ticks is going to be a safe bet, so that's $25.

Thank you for more clarifications!


Quoting 
Notice that if your trading software is any good in terms of how it handles sim trades, it should be fairly accurate in allowing for this kind of slippage, so you wouldn't need to factor this in. (In other words, it shouldn't assume that you always get the best possible price on your fill.) If you are doing "demo" trading without a good platform to figure in the slippage, use these numbers to be sure.

I don't know how well TradingView handles this. You'll want to see how well it manages. I would assume this amout of additional slippage on market orders until then, just so you aren't unrealistic.

TV is actually quite good, almost too good considering it doesn't actually cost me anything to do that and maintain the demo a/c for indefinite period. It will generally allow you to put in fixed cost to trade and slippage is also generally allowed into trades, especially if market orders, sometimes more than what in real world you will have <but thats just my observation>. You can also select your broker but I haven't explored that option, for me I need to change contract wise cost, so asking here specifically.


Quoting 
Edit: using a demo account (usually called "sim") is fine. Just make it clear in your journal what you are doing. Many, many people journal sim trading, or go back and forth. Just be aware that sim trading is basically unrealistic in one sense: you have no real money at risk, which makes it much less stressful psychologically than real-money trading. You will see the difference when you make the switch to live trading.

Ain't that the truth? I think I would be millionaire if I could replicate the same in real trading, unfortunately I can't. But sim is still good to test out your strategies manually, this TD Seq is really new stuff to me, its better for me to check it for lets say 6 months or something before I try it out in my real a/c. I've experienced blowing up my real money account before and hell don't want that to happen again, only saving grace for me was that I was still a student then and didn't have too much money to began with, so real life consequences were limited

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  #8 (permalink)
Mumbai, India
 
 
Posts: 46 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 54 given, 91 received

Okay, its about time I at least started posting some basic analysis, this is daily analysis of my local national Index Nifty 50.


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My first view is that;
Buy setup was interrupted by today's strong candle and it seems to be going to continue. its "probably" a good indication of buy as long as price stays within the channle.

No trades taken yet.

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  #9 (permalink)
Mumbai, India
 
 
Posts: 46 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 54 given, 91 received

First trade taken, some technical difficulties surfaced as well

The difficulty: To my shock apparently TV is not allowing me to paper trade in ES mini and micro, which leaves me with little choice but to trade in S&P500 (cfd) directly, that's problematic because costs involved and trade sizing is now out of order and I would need to do some recalculation. Reason for this permission problem is that ES ticker is delayed on TV, and I can only paper trade tickers which are getting updated live. Which is how it should be, just didn't think of that before planning all this.


Now the trading:
I did take a trade in S&P500 (cfd) though, so here are the details of analysis.

Entry and exit with SL marked.
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Partial profit booking tgt hit
https://www.tradingview.com/x/a7xDHWfs/

Price started turning and in view of final target missing I exited manually. Also cancelled tgt limit order from system
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.

Snip attached here of order history screen.

Notes: Although trade gave good profit it was actually not on, TD had yet not given sell setup or countdown for that matter.
Setup program needs some fine tuning in codes to make it little more cleaner in terms of producing exits.

I was lucky today but I might not be lucky everyday, so wait for trade setup/countdown to complete in close proximity of area from where reversal is expected, not at side moving area where system becomes lot less accurate and throws risk management out of window.

While this system can work for both positional and scalp, and I did manage to book approximately 2 points, its cost might not be in favor of taking such a short range trades.

Now about the cost, I also need to adjust cost to CFD now, so if anyone can help me with its cost and slippage amount just to be sure it would be great. I assume its far more than ES mini and micro.

Please excuse if any silly stuff, little overwhelmed with having to describe my own thoughts in public and that too with not mastered setup

Thanks for being patient

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  #10 (permalink)
Super Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 5,059 since Jan 2013
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LastDino View Post
The difficulty: To my shock apparently TV is not allowing me to paper trade in ES mini and micro, which leaves me with little choice but to trade in S&P500 (cfd) directly, that's problematic because costs involved and trade sizing is now out of order and I would need to do some recalculation. Reason for this permission problem is that ES ticker is delayed on TV, and I can only paper trade tickers which are getting updated live. Which is how it should be, just didn't think of that before planning all this.

(Edited to take out a mistake; see my next post for what was wrong.)

You can still "trade" in a simulated way by just keeping track of your buy and sell prices yourself. This is what "paper trading" used to be, when it had to be done entirely on paper.

In other words,
(a) you see a trade opportunity develop,
(b) record your entry price based on the chart at that time (very easy if you would buy/sell at the close of a bar; just add a tick or two for slippage to the closing price and write that down or mark it on the chart),
(c) do the same for the exit of the trade.

Unless you are trying to get hyper-small price moves, you'll be accurate within a tick or so of your "trade" price, and that will be more than good enough for you to know if you are trading well or not. I used to do this manual method a lot, some time ago, and it works fine. It will make you think you're in a time warp to an earlier age, but it does work.

My only point is to not give up too soon. Where there's a will, there's a way, and all that.

Good luck, whichever way you decide.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote

Last edited by bobwest; October 11th, 2019 at 05:26 PM.
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