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Get Rich or Die Trying


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Get Rich or Die Trying

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  #1 (permalink)
Bend + OR/USA
 
 
Posts: 54 since Aug 2019
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So, Iím new to futures trading. I started trading stocks in February, and absolutely fell in love with the market. It feels like I wasnít meant for it. My mind is meant for analysis. I was fairly successful. At my peak, I was up about 15%, just before the trade war started, and had saved almost three grand, which is a significant amount for a millennial that had never really saved a penny in their life.

I dabbled with options, but it never really took off. I traded bitcoin sporadically. Eventually, I switched brokers so I could short stocks, however, having watched the Tim Sykes videos and wanting to capitalize on the massive volatility of the penny stock world. However it wasnít long before I came to the futures market.

At first, I was mostly breaking even. I would see some pretty big trades, and make a good run, but give it back eventually. I started out trading one e-micro at a time (began with about $2800), and would add a second contract if it was trending.

Eventually, when I became more confident, I was regularly trading 4 e-microís on the S&P at a time. I would definitely get some big trades, but I had numerous small losses that would accumulate really fast, so my profits would eventually dwindle, and Iíd go back to zero, and then would trail into deficit.

Three weeks in, Iím now down $1300. Iím feeling extremely defeated, and have half-way considered throwing in the towel. I know I will be successful eventually, but Iím super frustrated, and am not sure what to do next. Iíd considered going back to paper trading for a bit. I know I need to lower my position sizes for sure. I am getting trapped a great deal by false breakouts.

I am in no way lacking in dedication, or motivation. I study this stuff like a crackhead. However, it seems I am still greatly lacking in awareness, and method. I hope I can resolve these mistakes soon.

Thanks for reading!

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  #2 (permalink)
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Wizard3ootz View Post
So, Iím new to futures trading. I started trading stocks in February, and absolutely fell in love with the market.
I am in no way lacking in dedication, or motivation. I study this stuff like a crackhead. However, it seems I am still greatly lacking in awareness, and method. I hope I can resolve these mistakes soon.

It sounds like you've covered a lot of ground and been in a lot of markets just since February. Every market involves a different type of strategy and, while I don't know what method you're using to trade futures, my guess is that you need to take time to formulate a strategy for futures. Even within futures, different markets may need different approaches.

If you have decided to make futures your home, or at least one of your primary markets, I would suggest this:
1. Devise a strategy if you don't already have one. There are plenty of different ways to gain an edge so just pick one and practice it. There are plenty of good trading books and courses out there, but be cautious about laying down big money for somebody's "guaranteed" plan to make big bucks in just a few weeks.
2. A part of your trade plan must include strict money management and risk control. No matter how good you get, there will be losses, sometimes multiple days of losses. You have to have a trade plan that limits your risk so that when you have the inevitable losses, you will still be able to get up the next morning with a smile on your face and sit down at the computer to trade again.
2. Use a simulated account at first to get the strategy down. I would recommend two to four weeks, although some people say don't come off sim until you are profitable for a number of weeks.
3. After sim, go for the micros. They are the best invention for beginners. You have to be serious because it is real money and real commissions, but you are unlikely to lose your shirt because the amounts at risk are small.
4. Once you're profitable on micros, then try some of the other markets: energy, metal, indexes and so forth. Find one or two that you are comfortable with and stick with those.

To be honest, it sounds like you have really bounced around a lot in just a few months. There's nothing inherently wrong with that because it helps you decide where you feel most comfortable. But, once you decide that, then it's time to dig in, educate yourself, practice, and gear up for the long haul.

Futures, and the markets in general, are fascinating and, yes, there is money to be made. I look forward to seeing your journal as you progress, and you will find lots of help in this community as long as you are willing to listen and learn. I hope you enjoy the journey and best of luck to you along the way!

Mike
NW Trader

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  #3 (permalink)
desert CA
 
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Ok, I see now. You had a nice rise with the uplifting market since Feb. Then got out during these volatile times to try out the futures market. You probably already heard this somewhere but you've been trading for a very relatively short while. Sure it's fine to take a break. I'd 'given up' and took breaks for a over a year or longer multiple times during my journey. I wouldn't believe that pap about Sykes, He got lucky over ten years ago as a teen, then started a tradeucation business as one of the teen trading first fads, shorting, pump/dump, and also fleecing his subscribers and shadily making one of the biggest windfalls of scamsites history. See the tradingschools review: (https://www.tradingschools.org/ ) You might want to check out some of the trading journals here some which had been going on for years, and maybe start one on your own.

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  #4 (permalink)
Bend + OR/USA
 
 
Posts: 54 since Aug 2019
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NW Trader View Post
It sounds like you've covered a lot of ground and been in a lot of markets just since February. Every market involves a different type of strategy and, while I don't know what method you're using to trade futures, my guess is that you need to take time to formulate a strategy for futures. Even within futures, different markets may need different approaches.



If you have decided to make futures your home, or at least one of your primary markets, I would suggest this:

1. Devise a strategy if you don't already have one. There are plenty of different ways to gain an edge so just pick one and practice it. There are plenty of good trading books and courses out there, but be cautious about laying down big money for somebody's "guaranteed" plan to make big bucks in just a few weeks.

2. A part of your trade plan must include strict money management and risk control. No matter how good you get, there will be losses, sometimes multiple days of losses. You have to have a trade plan that limits your risk so that when you have the inevitable losses, you will still be able to get up the next morning with a smile on your face and sit down at the computer to trade again.

2. Use a simulated account at first to get the strategy down. I would recommend two to four weeks, although some people say don't come off sim until you are profitable for a number of weeks.

3. After sim, go for the micros. They are the best invention for beginners. You have to be serious because it is real money and real commissions, but you are unlikely to lose your shirt because the amounts at risk are small.

4. Once you're profitable on micros, then try some of the other markets: energy, metal, indexes and so forth. Find one or two that you are comfortable with and stick with those.



To be honest, it sounds like you have really bounced around a lot in just a few months. There's nothing inherently wrong with that because it helps you decide where you feel most comfortable. But, once you decide that, then it's time to dig in, educate yourself, practice, and gear up for the long haul.



Futures, and the markets in general, are fascinating and, yes, there is money to be made. I look forward to seeing your journal as you progress, and you will find lots of help in this community as long as you are willing to listen and learn. I hope you enjoy the journey and best of luck to you along the way!



Man, I owe you a sincere and heartfelt thanks for your in depth and lengthy response. I really appreciate the feedback! And yeah, I definitely have bounced around a lot; itís taken me quite a while to figure out what markets I was able to gain an edge in, and what markets I was either limited by my experience (like options) or by account size (like equities).

Although I definitely wasnít happy with my recent losses, it was probably inevitable, and Iíll chop it up to growing pains. From most of the responses Iíve gotten, almost everyone Iíve talked to has mentioned getting beaten down pretty hard at first. Fortunately, these small sessions have definitely helped me to remain proactive about my approach, and get to the heart of the matter, so again, thank you for your participation.

I just got home, but Iím sure Iíll be posting here soon. Again, canít thank you enough!

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  #5 (permalink)
Bend + OR/USA
 
 
Posts: 54 since Aug 2019
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Cloudy View Post
Ok, I see now. You had a nice rise with the uplifting market since Feb. Then got out during these volatile times to try out the futures market. You probably already heard this somewhere but you've been trading for a very relatively short while. Sure it's fine to take a break. I'd 'given up' and took breaks for a over a year or longer multiple times during my journey. I wouldn't believe that pap about Sykes, He got lucky over ten years ago as a teen, then started a tradeucation business as one of the teen trading first fads, shorting, pump/dump, and also fleecing his subscribers and shadily making one of the biggest windfalls of scamsites history. See the tradingschools review) You might want to check out some of the trading journals here some which had been going on for years, and maybe start one on your own.



Yeah man, I saw that on there!!! Couldnít believe it. Thatís part of the reason why I switched. I was using some of his techniques and I was just sitting on my whole account, not doing crap. At least with futures, albeit Iím losing money (for now) Iím still making forward progression, in terms of personal development. Lol.

But yeah man, I hear ya. And I think Iím starting to flatten out. Tbh, I think a lot of it has to do on getting bitten on my orders, getting jipped for 1-2 ticks, just cause I was sloppy and bidding too aggressively during low-volume periods, when I could have bought at the bid or midpoint, and lastly, made a nice close today by finding my target, setting up my sell point in advance, so I could get executed before the masses/algo traders had a change to milk their profits.

Thanks for the feedback!!!

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  #6 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Indianoplace, IN
 
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Wizard3ootz View Post
From most of the responses Iíve gotten, almost everyone Iíve talked to has mentioned getting beaten down pretty hard at first.

Fear not, the beatings shall continue LOL... it takes a while for sure.

Some guys have been doing this for 10-20 years, spending tens of thousands of dollars in the process and still take a whoopin' Sounds like you've been all over the place in a short amount of time, don't be surprised if it takes longer than you might think. Your attitude is great though, stick with it... you have received some great advice here so build upon it. Get yourself into the micros and don't even think about moving up until you can prove your edge in a live environment.

All the best man.

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Bend + OR/USA
 
 
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Rrrracer View Post
Fear not, the beatings shall continue LOL... it takes a while for sure.



Some guys have been doing this for 10-20 years, spending tens of thousands of dollars in the process and still take a whoopin' Sounds like you've been all over the place in a short amount of time, don't be surprised if it takes longer than you might think. Your attitude is great though, stick with it... you have received some great advice here so build upon it. Get yourself into the micros and don't even think about moving up until you can prove your edge in a live environment.



All the best man.



Lol, appreciate the encouragement! And haha yeah, it definitely seems that way, although Iím trying to focus on the positives. Although Iíve pretty much donated almost half my roll at this point, Iím not allowing myself to be crippled by it. Iím going back to paper trading for as long as it takes me. Once I have proven to myself that I have what it takes, Iíll start playing again. It would be one thing if I was taking hits, and didnít modify my behavior, but the fact that Iím reaching out, pulling out for a while, and committing to re-working my practice, I think, bodes pretty well.

Thanks again for the feedback man. I am really happy to be a part of this community, and to have the support of all you guys. Have felt really welcomed since i started posting on here! ^^

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Posts: 54 since Aug 2019
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Well, my initial follow through could have been better, but the good news is that I have taken all of your feedback/comments into strong consideration, and have implemented them into my practice.

Simply put, Iím going back to paper trading until I can develop a better strategy, and start getting some better entries/exits etc.. Although it sucks im down so much, I think this is a necessary stepping stone to success, and I sense that, with patience a and hard work, I will make all my money back - and then some!

As per my plans, my intention is to strictly paper trade, until I can be consistently profitable for the next few weeks. It will be kind of a drag. If I am being perfectly honest with myself, there is certainly any addictive tendency to trading that I will need to contend with, and that has certainly led to some of the more significant losses in the short term. I donít consider myself an addict, but if again, Iím Iím truly being honest with myself, I definitely get a rush from trading, and Iíll need to keep that in check, moving forward.

Iím also making an intention to go through all of my trades at the end of the session, to observe how my entries/exits were, what the overall security was doing etc... and hopefully pick up on some patterns. Iíve noticed that I have a tendency to buy high and sell low sometimes, or short low sell high (Iíve included a pic of a failed short below, illustrating such behavior). Iíve been mostly trading on my phone right now as well, which is definitely not ideal. However, I just ordered a new flash drive so I can throw boot camp on my Mac, in order to run both MacOS and Windows 10, so I can use the TradeStation desktop application (Iíve got parallels but itís just too dang slow).

But yeah, once I see enough consistent profits from paper trading, Iíll shift back over, and start slowly, trading one lots, and see how it goes. No more jumping in with a full position like I have been. I think a great deal of it has to do with jumping in full steam, and not having the account balance to allow for wide enough swings, so Iíll panic, and close out, just to have it rally. Therefore, a lower position should help, in theory.

On a side note, I cannot thank everybody enough for the amazing responses and support you all have provided. Contrary to r/WallStreetBets and the like, everyone here has been extremely warm and welcoming, and has provided a ton of great feedback and suggestions. Cannot thank you enough for being willing to invest in someone elseís success like that. I hope I can return the favor someday (or pay it forward, at the least!)

Thanks again!

P.S. on a side note, I just applied to go to Oregon State University for my Bachelors Degree in Business yesterday. Already have my Associates. Also found out I got a $3,300 grant, per term!

Below:

Photo 1: Solid gains on oil (short) +$120
Photo 2: Failed short. Looked like it was going to continue to drop, then rallied. -$62




Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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Wizard3ootz View Post
Contrary to r/WallStreetBets and the like, everyone here has been extremely warm and welcoming, and has provided a ton of great feedback and suggestions. Cannot thank you enough for being willing to invest in someone else’s success like that. I hope I can return the favor someday (or pay it forward, at the least!)

Thanks again!

P.S. on a side note, I just applied to go to Oregon State University for my Bachelors Degree in Business yesterday. Already have my Associates. Also found out I got a $3,300 grant, per term!

haha, aren't those subreddits a riot? Thank you for your appreciative attitude to the responses here. Congrats on your grants to Oregan state and getting your associates. I think your plan to practice is good and solid and you're well on your way. I'll add that maybe you might have heard of Al Brooks for a price action primer. Bulkowski (thepatternsite.com) also has books on patterns, and I've read books from both and think Bulkowski's books (can be any one of them, not his whole library) detail common chart patterns and price action better overall imo. Best of luck.

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Thanks for sharing! I look forward to following your journal! I wish I could help in a strategy. If there is one thing I learned, you have to develop a strategy that works with your personality. Cheers mate.

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