My MES Live Account Journal (OneUp) - futures io
futures io futures trading



My MES Live Account Journal (OneUp)


Discussion in Trading Journals

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one sstheo with 70 posts (153 thanks)
    2. looks_two RDK91 with 10 posts (5 thanks)
    3. looks_3 contrax with 8 posts (2 thanks)
    4. looks_4 matthew28 with 6 posts (13 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one bobwest with 3.7 thanks per post
    2. looks_two mbondiett with 2.7 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 sstheo with 2.2 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 matthew28 with 2.2 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 22,992 views
    2. thumb_up 230 thanks given
    3. group 45 followers
    1. forum 160 posts
    2. attach_file 26 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

My MES Live Account Journal (OneUp)

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

I successfully completed my $50k account 15 day trading evaluation with OneUp Trader , got funded with MES Capital, and just finished my second profitable week of live trading.

Here is the graph from my OneUp evaluation account:



Here are my evaluation stats (scalping style): My average winner was $36 and 25 minutes, and my average loser was -$98 and 61 minutes. It took me 184 trades to reach the $3000 goal over 15 days, or about 12 trades per day average. The average net profit was $17 per trade.

The funding process took 3 days, but was very painless and there was no additional cost. I pay no platform fees, and the RT commission is $4.08 per YM or NQ contract, which is what I trade.

Here are the funded rules I now have to follow on top of the evaluation rules regarding instrument selection and trading times and max daily loss ($1,250) and overall account draw down ($2,500):

1. Volume. Because MES doesn't want people just sitting there doing nothing, I now have to trade at least 50% of the volume during the evaluation. So I have to trade at least 6 trades per day, but this is easy, because I am using the same style and am currently at 10 trades/day.

2. News Releases. During the evaluation there was no restriction here, but now I have to be flat 1 min before, during, and after major news releases.

3. Scaling. During the evaluation, I could trade a full 6 contracts, but now I am limited as follows: 2 under $1500, 4 under $4000, 6 over $4000 profit. This is actually very helpful for me to keep my risk in check.

4. Overall profitability. I must have a positive PnL greater than $0 at the end of the first 15 calendar days and each 15 days, but only for the first 90 days.

With both the evaluation and the live account, the daily max loss of -$1,250 doesn't change, but the overall account max loss level starts at -$2,500 and rises as you are profitable. But it doesn't go above $50k. So If I get above $52,500 balance, then my max loss stays at $50,000, which gives more breathing room as the account grows.

So how am I doing? Overall I am very pleased with my results:


  • I am up to $2,946 net profit in 12 trading days.
  • My average net profit/day is $245.
  • I have averaged 10 trades per day with a gross average profit per trade of $25.
  • Mar 21 was a bad day (-$290), but Mar 22 made up for it and then some ($1,280).
  • My average high trade is $74 and average low trade is -$65.
  • I have only traded with one contract this whole time
  • Given an initial max loss of $2,500, my average daily ROI is 9.7%.
  • My win rate is over 90%.
  • I have just now surpassed the $2500 profit mark. This means that my lower level max stop stays at $50k.
  • If I keep going at this same pace, then I will make about $50,000 net profit in 12 months at the 80% payout level.
  • I get to keep 100% of the first $8,000 in profits.

Additional thoughts:

A "$50,000 account" is misleading since the max draw down is only $2,500. However, if one considers the true maximum margin possibilities with OneUp/MES, then using the daytime margin requirements of the highest margin permitted instrument - Silver (SI) - with a $3,600 margin requirement, then one could easily argue for a true account value of 6 x $3,600 or $21,600. However, since I only trade NQ and YM with $500 margins, I could say "$3,000 is the account value" with 6 max positions. But realistically, I propose that the value of the account is only $2,500 since this is the max possible loss when starting out.

Because the true value of the account is only $2,500, why don't I just put that in my AMP Futures account and go to town and keep all 100% of the profits? I HAVE MANY TIMES. I have fallen many more times that I will admit in a public forum. It is too easy to cheat when no one is looking. It is too easy to load up on contracts when I "know" the market is about to reverse big time. So the value to me of OneUp/MES is that I have an outside guardrail keeping me on the path. I am FORCED to do proper risk control. I know that prop firms have risk control managers patrolling all their traders to make sure that no one is in a major draw down (for long), for example. Even the best traders can sometimes be like a deer in the headlights.

As another FIO member said, I also intend to take the profits from MES and try with my personal account again, but hopefully leverage my positive experience here into the success I should have had when I started futures trading many years ago.

I did try TST several years ago, but I had to get special permission from them to scalp because I have an inverted R:R style. TST may have since dropped their positive Reward/Risk rule, but OneUp/MES lets me trade how I see fit, as long as I am flat at the end of the day and during the news relevant to the traded instruments.

I will continue to update my journal and post my results.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 16 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
Where can I find Cost to Trade and Book Depth info?
Emini and Emicro Index
Reading A set of Trading Signals
EasyLanguage Programming
Work with historical tcks data on MUltichart NET PowerLa …
MultiCharts
What blockvolume is visible? - order processing
NinjaTrader
Indicators for pair trading MES and M2K
Platforms and Indicators
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
Battlestations: Show us your trading desks!
117 thanks
Want your NinjaTrader indicator created, free?
32 thanks
Selling Options on Futures?
19 thanks
Saturday Morning Market Replay!
18 thanks
Bitcoin storage wallet recommendations
18 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
 
snax's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,537 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 6,143 given, 6,128 received



sstheo View Post
A "$50,000 account" is misleading since the max draw down is only $2,500.

Congrats on your progress thus far!

I guess the drawdown is a matter of perspective. From my perspective I use a pretty simple position-sizing approach for all my "standard" trades:

 
Code
Maximum Account Risk (in dollars) / (Trade Risk (in ticks) x Tick Value) = Position Size
With this in mind, if I were trading the $50k account, a 5% max drawdown of $2.5k seems like a reasonable inflection-point, as it would signify that it was time for me to re-adjust something because I was moving in the wrong direction.

Cheers!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to snax for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

Thanks for the reply SNAX. On a normal $50k account, if you dropped $2,500 or 5%, you could certainly reevaluate your style and improve. Unfortunately, in the case of OneUp/MES, if you drop to $47,500 (in this example), you don't get a second chance. You are dead. Fortunately, with a new entry fee, you get to be resurrected with a shiny new evaluation opportunity.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

I have now completed 3 weeks on my live MES/OneUp account.

Since my last post a week ago-- Monday was really bad, but Tue, Wed, Thu were great.

I tried 2 contracts on Monday, but the extra risk twisted my brain a bit and it was my worst trading day yet at -$455 or an 18% loss on the "real" portion of the account.

So I am staying with 1 max contract until at least $4000 profit.




I am pretty excited about my overall progress and my $228/day net profit average for one contract which would be $46k per year if I change nothing.

If I can get to 2 contracts traded exactly the same (all in - all out) , then this would be over $90k year. If I don't withdraw much and get up to 6 contracts, then I could make over $250/year not changing my trading style at all.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Trading Technologies
Broker: Primary Advantage Futures. Also ED&F and Tradestation
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little GE, GC, SI & Bitcoin
 
Posts: 3,979 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 3,284 given, 7,796 received

Congratulations to you and good luck.
Is it a $2500 drawdown or a $2500 max loss? With $3k in profits those two numbers are now very different.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to SMCJB for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


SMCJB View Post
Congratulations to you and good luck.
Is it a $2500 drawdown or a $2500 max loss? With $3k in profits those two numbers are now very different.

Thanks SMCJB. Great question, and a multi-part answer is required.

DAILY MNE (AKA "Trailing Drawdown")

First of all, the MNE (maximum negative excursion) on any day is $1,250 on the $50k account on both the OneUp Evaluation and the funded partner MES Capital.

With the sim account on OneUp, if a trader hits the $1,250 loss intraday with the OneUp Evaluation they may or may not have their positions automatically flattened (it happened to me both ways I think). But they definitely can't open new positions. So hopefully the position recovers or the trader went flat at $1,250. The account is still tradable the next day as long as the total max loss for the account is not hit.

With the live account with MES, if a trader hits the $1,250 intraday MNE, then they will probably have the trade automatically flattened and the account politely disqualified the next day.

TOTAL MNE

With both sim and live, the total MNE for the entire account is $2,500. This allows for two straight down days of $1,250 and assumes that a good day-trader will be able to appropriately control the risk. This -$2,500 is the intraday and intra-trade max negative excursion death point for open positions.

However, the "Total MNE" increases proportionally with each new intraday high tick, even if a trader gives it all back by the end of the day. So the low number slowly ratchets up each day, assuming profitable trading.

Once a trader reaches $2,500 in profits then the daily max loss or MNE does not keep rising, but stays at $50k.

So in my case with $3500 in profits, my max account low point is now $50k, and I could lose $3,500 before the account were closed, assuming I lost less than $1,250 on any given day. So clearly the bigger the account, the less over risk there is assuming I don't max out on contracts.

This is from the OneUp help page and assumes a $100k account.


Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Trading Technologies
Broker: Primary Advantage Futures. Also ED&F and Tradestation
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little GE, GC, SI & Bitcoin
 
Posts: 3,979 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 3,284 given, 7,796 received

Interesting. Thank You for the explanation & good luck to you.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to SMCJB for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
New York City, USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
CarpetHooligan's Avatar
 
Posts: 61 since Aug 2017
Thanks: 9 given, 77 received

Congrats. I suggest to take what you can from them and open your own account. Don't give them %s if you don't have to.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to CarpetHooligan for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received



CarpetHooligan View Post
Congrats. I suggest to take what you can from them and open your own account. Don't give them %s if you don't have to.

Thanks CarpetHooligan. That is my intent! You just really got me thinking. . . .

It's some what embarrassing, but the reason I have even an account with them at all is because I seem to need their daily and account max loss mandatory guardrails. Unfortunately, without an external task master I have a very hard time following all my own rules. I get the next big anticipated market move in my head and then I don't let go - and fall to my death over the cliff called "account annihilation." I am a true "deer in the headlights." Since 95% of traders fail, I am guessing most suffer from the exact same syndrome of stupidity. As a % of my annual income, it feels like I have gleefully handed more money over to the big boys that anyone else in the world.

OneUp and now MES have finally tamed my wanton generosity (hopefully permanently).

Here are my options:

1. Trade on my personal account after my daily MES minimum trade count is met. I now have a required minimum number of trades per week with MES. It is 50% of the average weekly volume of my OneUp evaluation. I need to take an average of 6 trades per day. I see now that once I have made those 6 trades, I SHOULD do any other trading for the day on my personal account, following the exact same rules, since it seems to finally be working after 13 years of trading. (I am a slow learner or just foolish for not giving up much sooner.)

2. Trade copy. Alternatively, perhaps I can find a way with MultiCharts to exactly copy each entry and exit on the other account!

3. Ditch MES and only trade my personal account. I know that I could simply sever the relationship with MES and use my own account again and trade excellently as I have the past three weeks. But I am currently still fearful that I will either let one bad trade wipe me out or that I will get too aggressive on an entry when my confidence in the move outstrips all rationality.

So for now, I will consider Options 1 or 2, but Option 3 will remain a real possibility after I have been successful for many more weeks, giving me time to retrain my trading brain and build confidence in my long-term success.

Thanks again.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
New York City, USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
CarpetHooligan's Avatar
 
Posts: 61 since Aug 2017
Thanks: 9 given, 77 received

Ask a coder to write an app for you that will auto shut down your trading platform and won't allow you to start it until next day.

Oh and if you try to uninstall the shutdown app, the total amount you lost will be auto withdrawn from your bank and sent to the coder.

I'm not kidding.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to CarpetHooligan for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


CarpetHooligan View Post
Ask a coder to write an app for you that will auto shut down your trading platform and won't allow you to start it until next day.

Oh and if you try to uninstall the shutdown app, the total amount you lost will be auto withdrawn from your bank and sent to the coder.

I'm not kidding.


This is an awesome idea! This would certainly elevate things to the level of "You are an &*#@!^ing idiot if you trade outside of permitted hours." And I am sure that ANY desired behavior could be monitored -- and violations punished the same way.

But is not the goal in all trading (if not all of life!) is to become AUTO-Disciplined? LOL

And thanks to you Carpet Hooligan, I just had a major epiphany. Thanks so much!

Since this thread is my own journal, I just realized that I can utilize the scrutinous eyeballs of other thoughtful FIO members such as yourself to help me reach my desired trading behaviors. I can simply add a few columns to the daily spreadsheet that I already post weekly, and honestly track the results of the the things I am struggling with the most.

These are the first four:

(1) Did I trade only during New York Regular Trading Hours?
(2) Did I place an emergency stop on 100% of my trades?
(3) Notwithstanding the stop, did I scratch immediately if I determined the trade was going against me?
(4) What was the actual largest negative excursion?

I know that I have cheated on my trading rules for many years, and that is why I am still a beginner.

In doing my best to follow my goals and posting the results here for all to see, I am fearful that my win rate may drop precipitously, but perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised with an increase in overall profits. Is it finally time for my win rate to be sacrificed on the altar of profitability? Yes. The problem with most traders is that their need to be "right" outstrips their desire to make money. It is time for a change for me. The Holy Grail of Trading is DISCIPLINE and Discipline = $$$.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
Madrid - Spain
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja
Trading: ES
 
ignacio90's Avatar
 
Posts: 149 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 663 given, 180 received


CarpetHooligan View Post
Ask a coder to write an app for you that will auto shut down your trading platform and won't allow you to start it until next day.

Oh and if you try to uninstall the shutdown app, the total amount you lost will be auto withdrawn from your bank and sent to the coder.

I'm not kidding.

I'm kidding but it's built it...

https://daytraderprofesional.com/herramientas/guardian-angel-trader

Cheers

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to ignacio90 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


ignacio90 View Post


Is this your creation? This is amazing. What is the price in $USD?

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
Oregon
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES
 
Stillgreen's Avatar
 
Posts: 191 since May 2014
Thanks: 342 given, 246 received

Congratulations on your success so far with OneUp.
With Topstep , once you are funded, you have to pay the Professional rate for Data feeds for each CME/CBOT market.
Is this the same with OneUp ?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
Virginia Beach, VA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader
Trading: YM, NQ, MYM, MNQ
 
Brandenton's Avatar
 
Posts: 781 since Sep 2016
Thanks: 712 given, 1,482 received


Stillgreen View Post
Congratulations on your success so far with OneUp.
With Topstep , once you are funded, you have to pay the Professional rate for Data feeds for each CME/CBOT market.
Is this the same with OneUp ?

Nope. Once funded, they flip the bill. All you have to do is trade.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Brandenton for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


Stillgreen View Post
Congratulations on your success so far with OneUp.
With Topstep , once you are funded, you have to pay the Professional rate for Data feeds for each CME/CBOT market.
Is this the same with OneUp ?

As mentioned, there is nothing to pay with MES Capital for data feed.

What do those professional data feed fees cost each month?

And why would anyone consider someone on TST a professional unless they were credentialed? It seems punitive.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,979 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,657 given, 5,120 received


sstheo View Post
As mentioned, there is nothing to pay with MES Capital for data feed.

What do those professional data feed fees cost each month?

And why would anyone consider someone on TST a professional unless they were credentialed? It seems punitive.

I think the CME considers you are a pro when your trade other people's money.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to trendisyourfriend for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
Singapore
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra, MT4
Trading: ES, CL, NG, XAUUSD, USDJPY
 
dyst's Avatar
 
Posts: 107 since May 2015
Thanks: 73 given, 89 received

Good question, I wondered about that too.

If you dont have the financial licence papers, how can you be classified a professional? If it is about managing other people's money... well then idk what to say really.



sstheo View Post
As mentioned, there is nothing to pay with MES Capital for data feed.

What do those professional data feed fees cost each month?

And why would anyone consider someone on TST a professional unless they were credentialed? It seems punitive.


Numbers work... Magic lies in the numbers
Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #20 (permalink)
New York City, USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
CarpetHooligan's Avatar
 
Posts: 61 since Aug 2017
Thanks: 9 given, 77 received

If you are trading someone else's money and are signing up for TST that indicates a logic disconnect somewhere A trader is considered pro when they trade as part of an LLC, for example, because it allows multiple people to then trade the account as part of the company. They need to sign as that company if they want to later direct taxes and loss deductions against it as well.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #21 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

I finished off Friday with a bang. I waited until AFTER the NFP report and traded the consolidation that followed. $500+ in 13 trades.

Here is the current net profit graph of my live MES Capital account. The x axis is the days traded since account was opened:




And as I said I would, I have added these 4 desired behaviors to my spreadsheet. Let's see how I do.
Behaviors to track

1. Did I trade only during regular trading hours?
2. Did I place an emergency stop on 100% of my trades?
3. Did I get out "immediately" if I determined a trade was going against me?
4. What was the largest Negative Excursion?

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #22 (permalink)
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,363 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 48,502 given, 21,317 received


sstheo View Post
As mentioned, there is nothing to pay with MES Capital for data feed.

What do those professional data feed fees cost each month?

And why would anyone consider someone on TST a professional unless they were credentialed? It seems punitive.


trendisyourfriend View Post
I think the CME considers you are a pro when your trade other people's money.

Not to fill up @sstheo's thread with a lot of irrelevant stuff, but since the question came up....

When CME raised their professional data fees some years ago (it's now $105/month or any part thereof), there was a lot of back-and-forth here about the fees and about TST's decision to have their traders pay them.

The most amazing ideas of what constitutes a "professional" have been offered as part of this discussion. We finally tracked down what CME means by it. Note that it's not necessarily what other exchanges may use, and is not what IRS uses, and may not exactly make sense (especially if you don't want to pay it ), but it's how they do it.

If you read the whole thing, they are basically defining who is a Non-Professional, not who is a Professional. They include just about everything, including the kitchen sink, that you cannot be doing if you're a non-pro; if you are doing any of them, you are a pro. That's kind of round-about, but don't blame me . I highlighted some of the interesting parts:




(Source: https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/distributor/files/exhibit-a-to-schedule-4-non-pro-self-cert-form.pdf )

You can see it's complicated. The short answer is fairly close to how @trendisyourfriend put it, but it looks like if you are a professional by some criteria (look at point (d)), then you'd still be a professional even if you are currently only trading your money (points (f) and (g).) They also reserve the right to stick you with it any time they want to.

Basically, they really just want to charge you if you're not a retail trader trading only your money or that of a specific type of small business. (Many traders trade out of LLC's they set up for various reasons, or trade family trust money, etc.) And no, these criteria are not necessarily 100% consistent, or at least aren't totally clear, but don't blame me for that either.

I personally think both that (1) TST should just pick the fees up and (2) that a profitable trader would basically just shrug the fees off ($105 = just over 8 ticks on 1 ES contract, a very small trade, and it's just once a month.) Not that I'd want to pay it, though, unless I had to.

Bob.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #23 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

Bob, thanks for the thorough explanation of the issue. Nicely done.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #24 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received



SLAY the BEAST! Like many traders, I lost a TON of $ many years ago when I started trading. My emotions and account were manipulated by the big boys. But this is the nature of the beast!

13 years later I am still trying to slay that monster. I did not flee in terror. Unfortunately, there is no way to beat the professionals. YOU MUST BECOME ONE YOURSELF.

You either have to (1) become an emotion-less robot (by running algorithms) or (2) become a discretionary trader who tries to see the fear and greed in the market and do the opposite of the crowd or (3) use algorithms for signals and make your own final trade decisions.

One of the problems of algos is that the market volatility and overall bias changes daily and so algorithms often fail spectacularly immediately after optimization.

I prefer a strictly discretionary approach.

But it really doesn't matter which style you use, as long as you MASTER your emotions, find your edge, look long term (be patient with your progress), and remain fully disciplined to your own rules.

Success to you in your quest..

(Image from a game called Titan Quest by Iron Lore and published by THQ in 2006)

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #25 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received



STOPS. Anyone can "predict" market direction. But profitable money management (focusing on sizing and good exits) is the elusive component in the quest to become and remain a long-term LIVE trader.

I have had my live MES account for 3 weeks now and have almost reached the $4000 profit mark. My biggest daily loss was about -$400, but my worst single trade was a whopping -$685. I did not follow my plan that day!

Part of the big problem is that the volatility in the market right now is huge. Fed rates, tariffs, Trump tweets, Brexit, etc, etc. The list goes on forever. But this is no excuse for me to lose money consistently. I must stay alive. This is the game.

I have stepped onto the court, and now I must ADAPT OR DIE. It certainly feels like a massive "dodge ball" game where the enemy is on both sides of you hurling balls at your legs, back and face!

Surviving in the ever-changing market is certainly not easy. Trend up? Trend down? Consolidation in a range? How to trade? How to take losses?

Once you enter a trade you are at the mercy of the market. And it's not about "Will I get killed?" You WILL get killed!!! It's about -how badly- were you killed. And sometimes you will do the killing.

But your survivability is a balance called "Expectancy" which is simply the Average Profit per trade (it comes from the formula "Win% x Average Winner - Lose% x Average Loser"). So you have just 3 components to worry about: win/loss rate, the size of your winners, and the size of your losers. You must work on all three.

I am working right now on reducing the size of my losers. My mental stop has been about $300, but I will now change that to a fixed stop of $100. This will drop my win rate down from about 90% to probably 70% or less, but my overall losses should drop as well.

BUT I am going one step further. I am not going to simply wait until my stop loss is hit. That $100 is an emergency stop, and I will try to keep it from being hit. How? The moment I determine a trade is moving against me (or does nothing for about 3 minutes) I am going to go flat. This is a really hard thing to do because you have to ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG. And most traders would rather be right than profitable long term, and unless you flip the equation you may be doomed to failure. "Cut your losses quickly and let your winners run!" they always say. But it is so hard to do!.

I will do my best this week to get out "immediately" when a trade goes against me. Let's see how bloody I am next weekend.

(Picture from the 2018 US National Collegiate Dodge Ball tournament)

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #26 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

Here is my report for the last 5 trading days.

1. I am sad to report that I kept my new rules for just one day this week. The goals were to trade only during regular trading hours, always enter a stop, and always get out immediately if a trade goes against me more than a few ticks. I tried, but still have a way to go. This is so hard! Especially when we get a big spike that I KNOW is about to reverse. I need to rethink these goals.

2. I had a great trading week and am closing in on the $5000 mark now at $4,846.

3. My average daily net profit is fairly flat at $230 per day

4. I have increased my average gross profit per position up to $27 from $20. This is a 30% increase. This is the number I am most happy about. It means I am cutting my losses faster and holding on to my winners longer.


Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #27 (permalink)
Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 957 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,380 given, 1,721 received

Just to say, well done on your results and a nice job on your analysis of your ongoing performance. Very impressive

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #28 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

@matthew28 Thanks for the nice comments.

---------------------

Clarification:

I previously suggested that if I hit my the DAILY max draw down of $1,250 that my account would be closed.

But I talked with MES Capital, and they said that if I hit my max daily draw down then I will be unable to trade the live account for the rest of the day, but that my account will still be active.

Therefore, my account is safe from closure then unless I hit the $50k account floor, trade through prohibited news events, use more positions than allowed, etc.

Right now this is not a big deal, but I was really concerned about this for when I get up to 6 contracts (the max on the $50k account). $1,250 is just $200 per contract, and that could be hit so easily in this volatile trading environment.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #29 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

I have completed my first month and have almost reached a comfortable enough level to add a second position. Since I am now close to $5k in profit, I realized that I COULD take 6 positions.



My most important trading goals: Survive and Thrive

#1 Goal: Capital Preservation. I want to protect my capital and stay alive!
#2 Goal: Profits. I want to increase the size of my account

I watched a great video from Stage5 Trading (FutresTrader71) where the prop-trading broker showed how one of his traders started with the max # of contracts each day, but then had to trade with fewer each time he dropped below certain fixed thresholds (anti-Martingale!). He said something like this--"If he hits the daily stop loss, I want him to be going out with just one contract, not six. Most people do it backwards."

Intrigued, I decided to take my actual trade data for the first month and run some scenarios, assuming a repeat performance and assuming all-in, all-out trading with size scaling. I ran three different styles, automatically reducing or adding contracts as appropriate:
  • Progressive scaling, where I start with one and go up to six, being rewarded for good trades.
  • Combo scaling, where I started with 3 and add or subtract based on performance.
  • Regressive scaling, where I start with the max and reduce the contracts when doing poorly.

In each case, I tested several different ladder settings ($25 to $200) for adding or removing contracts with the next trade.

Before starting, based on all 249 trades taken so far, I determined that my best setting for a fixed emergency stop is not $100 as mentioned previously, but $150, and that is what I used here. I used Gann's suggestion to remove the worst 15% of trades and set the stop just above the 80% draw down mark.

One of the most important factors was not hitting the $1,250 max intraday draw down. So in a separate calculation, I also ran a worst-case scenario where hit my fixed $150 stop 4 times in a row with the max contracts, following the scaling plan to see what happened. All were fine except the Regressive model which exceeded the max daily draw down by only $100, so I think it is fine.

Results




The $25 contract scaling ladder step size seemed best balance in all three cases.

Profits? The Progressive scaling gave $27k, the Combination gave $35k, and the Regressive scaling gave almost $40k!

I made "just" $5k this last month, and $40k sounds pretty crazy awesome. HOWEVER . . . I don't yet trust myself enough to make such a drastic change. Despite the awesome results, I will still start with just 2 contracts.

And even though I could jump right in with 2 contracts on the Regressive model, I really like the idea of REWARDING myself with another contract for good trading like in the Progressive model, instead of PUNISHING myself for bad trading.

I like all three models though, and I can easily see myself going through a sequence from lowest risk to highest risk as my confidence rises and as my success continues: Progressive, Combo, Regressive, and Regressive with larger tiers.

Regarding the entries and exits, because my style is so fast, I may just do "all in-all out" rather than having several entry and exit places, but we will see.

It is very fun to see the effects of added positions, but it is a double edged sword. The average trade profit really needs to stay up there in the $25+ range for things not to go south fast.

-Steve

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #30 (permalink)
Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 957 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,380 given, 1,721 received

I like the idea of the Regressive sizing. I must have watched a similar video a while ago because I have a screenshot I took from it.


At least if you start with a string of losses like above one is losing less and less on each trade and can then increase as the day's balance gets back to and above zero. I wouldn't think of scaling back as "punishing myself for bad trading" but instead exercising a tested risk management model that will allow you to be more profitable over time yet ride out inevitable drawdowns.

The trouble with the Progressive model is that if making money straight from the start then knowing that when the first loss comes it will be on the largest size of the day but each of the previous wins will have been on lower size.

Also agree with only going up to two lots when you are ready. I remember somebody saying that the largest increase in size they recommend is when a person goes from 1 to 2 lots (100% increase). And then increase again only if profitable at that size level.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #31 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


matthew28 View Post
I like the idea of the Regressive sizing. I must have watched a similar video a while ago because I have a screenshot I took from it.



At least if you start with a string of losses like above one is losing less and less on each trade and can then increase as the day's balance gets back to and above zero. I wouldn't think of scaling back as "punishing myself for bad trading" but instead exercising a tested risk management model that will allow you to be more profitable over time yet ride out inevitable drawdowns.

The trouble with the Progressive model is that if making money straight from the start then knowing that when the first loss comes it will be on the largest size of the day but each of the previous wins will have been on lower size.

Also agree with only going up to two lots when you are ready. I remember somebody saying that the largest increase in size they recommend is when a person goes from 1 to 2 lots (100% increase). And then increase again only if profitable at that size level.

Yes, that's the same presentation and screen shot. Thanks for finding it!

Epiphany time--

I appreciate the logic in your statements about the true psychology of Regressive scaling. It's not punishing; it's protecting. And that is my #1 stated goal in the very same post! It's immediately reducing size if something is wrong. Then, with better trading or market conditions, I can earn it back.

Going a step further, by my taking the first trade of the day with max contracts, I am saying, "I trust myself and my style, and I am confident, and I will win!" So the Regressive approach is actually the most optimistic and least punitive of the three approaches. Both the Progressive and Combo methods say, "I am not sure you can do this. Let's watch. I am going to hold you back until you prove you can do this." So in reality, with Progressive and Combo, the OneUp evaluation actually continues each day, instead of saying "You passed, now let's go make some money!"

The largest loss of the day truly can happen at any time, but with the Progressive approach, as you explained well, I do see that I am guaranteeing that it will be a painful one. The Regressive approach will allow me to have built up a bigger buffer earlier in the day.

Testing with my own 249 trades, reported above, proved to me that the Regressive approach produces the most profit. Hmmm. It's almost time to plant my garden. Why would I intentionally plant a lower-yielding variety of anything???



And In a twist here I just realized that perhaps the Regressive model is actually the LEAST risky because I am building my account faster and have more cash as a buffer against the future inevitable draw down.

And good point on the risk of that first contract addition. There is a direct correlation with having kids. Adding a second child is way more stressful than adding a third.

Conclusion: When I feel ready to start this new scaling adventure, I will try the optimistic and confident Regressive approach. I will start with the max contracts each day and then reduce the the number of contracts, as required, according the scaling plan. Because of the potential for loss and increased stress, I will start with a max of 2 for now. I will consider 3,4, 5, and 6 only after profitability is proven and my confidence is high. There is no need to rush this.

And if all else fails, I can go back to 1 contract....

Thanks again @matthew28.

-Steve

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #32 (permalink)
Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 957 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,380 given, 1,721 received

I like your reply. You have expanded much more on my couple of sentences and given me food for thought. Thanks.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #33 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
 
snax's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,537 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 6,143 given, 6,128 received

Hi @sstheo,

Congrats! You are doing quite well!

I had some simple questions:

1) Does your funding partner make it clear to you exactly which "major economic events" you need to be out of the market (ie. "Flat") for?

2) I saw you mentioned a "minimum 6 trades per day" rule. Does this mean you have to complete 6 trades even while having a bad losing day? (I guess if you minimize to 1 contract and use reasonable stops you should be able to stay within the drawdown-limits even if all your trades lose.)

3) Do you feel this experience is helping you become a better trader in any particular way?

Thank you!
snax

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to snax for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #34 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


snax View Post
Hi @sstheo,

Congrats! You are doing quite well!

I had some simple questions:

1) Does your funding partner make it clear to you exactly which "major economic events" you need to be out of the market (ie. "Flat") for?

2) I saw you mentioned a "minimum 6 trades per day" rule. Does this mean you have to complete 6 trades even while having a bad losing day? (I guess if you minimize to 1 contract and use reasonable stops you should be able to stay within the drawdown-limits even if all your trades lose.)

3) Do you feel this experience is helping you become a better trader in any particular way?

Thank you!
snax

1) Yes, MES provides a list of the releases to watch out for https://help.oneuptrader.com/help/economic-release-calendar And they also give the relevant calendar. https://global-premium.econoday.com/byweek.asp?cust=global-premium&cty=US&lid=0If I am unclear about a particular release then I email MES and they get right back to me.

2) The 6 trades per day is ONLY FOR ME. And it is really a requirement for "30 trades per week." The GENERAL rule is that a funded trader must trade at least 50% of the average number of trades take per week during the Evaluation. For me that was about 60 trades per week, so I have to trade at least 30 per week. (For a really good trader, it might work out to just 1 to 3 per day.)

3) I would say that after 14 years of inconsistent trading, this is the first time that I have felt totally in control of my trading, despite the hightened volatility in the market. Why? I think it is simply the external 2-step guardrail that MES is providing. #1 is the fixed daily loss (with good chance of recovery the next day) and #2 is the threat of account closure at the Max Draw Down and then having to spend at least 4 more weeks in another Evaluation - plus all the costs.

BUT WHY have I failed so many times before? That's what I want to know!!! But here is what I have come up with so far. I know this seems really odd, but in all cases, NOBODY BUT ME WAS WATCHING. Since 2005, I think I have blown up more personal IB, OEC, and AMP accounts that anyone in the world. (Not to mention Nadex, and dozens FX accounts too!) It didn't matter that I hit a margin call. I could just deposit $500 or $1000 more and keep going. I did not have an external enforcement entity except the margin call. And I was underfunded IN ALL CASES, and in all cases I was not careful enough.

(Now here is my bright idea of the day). Therefore, in this light, I'd like to say that while IB, and AMP and OEC (and all other brokers) have margin calls, to increase the longevity of their account holders, they might FORCE them to select a DAILY max draw down % of no more than 50% of the margin call level. This would give all account holders at least 2 days to figure out that their trajectory is a really bad one.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #35 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

I may blow this great trading record all up after 4 weeks, like I have 3 times before with MES Capital, but I have some things going in my favor this time - and I am doing my best to succeed:

(1) I have never made it 4 weeks before, and I don't want to start over again and so am being more careful.

(2) I think I have FINALLY learned that this is not a race and I can really be patient and only take what I think are the BEST trades.

(3) By dropping to the $50k instead of $150k Evaluation, it made me focus more on my single contract trades, which I think helped me more than anything.

(4) I have been trading for 14 years and this is the best I have done for a whole month in terms of risk and reward, so I want to continue

(5) As far as patience goes, I am WAITING at market tops and bottoms more now. I used to blindly jump in short at "the top," but of course it was NOT the top! I wait now until I see evidence of weakness before shorting (for example).

(6) But most importantly, I am more relaxed as a trader now because I have a bigger buffer, now that I am over the $2,500 magical profit mark (on the $50k live account). The max loss is fixed now at $50k. This gives me more MENTAL space to maneuver around in.

I think the reason most evaluations and live accounts fail across all companies and platforms is because traders are trading too big. Until you get to the point of being able to take a loss and not break a sweat, you are handicapped and will mentally trade at a significant disadvantage. My advice to everyone here is simply to take it slow and evaluate your trades each day.

The market will teach you --- if you'll listen. If you will be humble, then it shouldn't take you 14 years like it has me, but maybe only 4, LOL.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #36 (permalink)
New York City, USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
CarpetHooligan's Avatar
 
Posts: 61 since Aug 2017
Thanks: 9 given, 77 received

Wow at what age did you start trading?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to CarpetHooligan for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #37 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


CarpetHooligan View Post
Wow at what age did you start trading?

Haha, great question. I started trading at 40.

I still don't have any gray hair, but my shoulder hurts a bit and I now have to wear glasses. LOL.

Don't get me wrong, I have had some great sprints in stocks, options, forex, and now futures. But I have always given it all back plus more. I took one FX account from $100 to $4000 in a month one time, and I was in the top 50 on ZuluTrade for a bit. But my style was unsustainable in both cases.

I will do my best to make it to month 2 and break through this 4 week barrier.

Also, I have decided to test the MES funding machine, so I will make a request tomorrow to take out $1000. Let's make sure this is all real!!!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #38 (permalink)
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,363 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 48,502 given, 21,317 received


sstheo View Post

Also, I have decided to test the MES funding machine, so I will make a request tomorrow to take out $1000. Let's make sure this is all real!!!



This is the point, isn't it?

I'm sure it will be fine.

Good work, and I hope more is to come.

Bob.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #39 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

I went ahead and made my first withdrawal today.
I sent the request in the morning, and it hit my bank the very same day.
See below.



Looks like MES Capital and OneUp Trader are both legit.

Steve

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #40 (permalink)
Detroit, MI/USA
 
 
Posts: 38 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 2 given, 9 received

that is what i was looking for an actual withdrawal thanks i think ill give them another shot.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to caacapital for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #41 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

MES Capital asked me to head their Funded Trader text-only Chat room. That was an honor.

I started today. It was pretty painless since everyone was quite professional.

And we had great discussions today with some very experienced traders.

So go pass a OneUp evaluation and then come hang out with us!

- Steve

(p.s. I don't get paid for managing the room)

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #42 (permalink)
Guadalajara + Jalisco/Mexico
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES MINI
 
Posts: 50 since Dec 2016
Thanks: 9 given, 7 received


sstheo View Post
MES Capital asked me to head their Funded Trader text-only Chat room. That was an honor.

I started today. It was pretty painless since everyone was quite professional.

And we had great discussions today with some very experienced traders.

So go pass a OneUp evaluation and then come hang out with us!

- Steve

(p.s. I don't get paid for managing the room)


Hello... since few days ago i was looking for more information about OneUpT or TST. I want to try the evaluation but first i want to know what is going to be the deal with the micro futures at 6 of may. If is going to be with lack of volatility, high comissions or even spreads... Im going to do the evaluation but i dont know what can be better... The TST or OneUp.

These past days of research... im looking forward to OneUp. But in your opinion, why u chose OneUp than TST?

Asking about the News Events, in the Funded Account u cant trade it (anyway i always close my trades before the news) but close it 1 minute before the news and after what time u can still trading again?

Thank you for ur information and for sure.. im going to follow ur thread.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #43 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


contrax View Post
Hello... since few days ago i was looking for more information about OneUpT or TST. I want to try the evaluation but first i want to know what is going to be the deal with the micro futures at 6 of may. If is going to be with lack of volatility, high comissions or even spreads... Im going to do the evaluation but i dont know what can be better... The TST or OneUp.

These past days of research... im looking forward to OneUp. But in your opinion, why u chose OneUp than TST?

Asking about the News Events, in the Funded Account u cant trade it (anyway i always close my trades before the news) but close it 1 minute before the news and after what time u can still trading again?

Thank you for ur information and for sure.. im going to follow ur thread.


The response to the micro futures will be interesting. And I don't know if they will be offered by One/Up and MES Capital. The spread and commissions might make them suitable only for swing trading (which is not a bad thing at all when you have a small account).

I tried TST several years ago and thought they were great. But at that time my style of inverted risk:reward with 95% winners did not sit well with them. They let me trade that way after I got clearance. I never completed a combine successfully after several attempts.

Then MES came to the scene, and I tried their combine for free before they joined up with OneUp. I did not succeed.

Once MES they teamed up with OneUp, I naturally wanted to try them because of my experience MES, and not knowing if TST still had the same rules.

I got funded with MES fairly quickly after trying the evaluation with OneUp. But I didn't keep all the rules. It was either trading through the news or hitting the max draw down. I am now on my 4th live account. I am doing all I can to make sure I stay alive this time.

Which is the better company? I really don't know. TST has been around longer, and so has worked out many of the bugs, but the people at OneUp and MES have been great. And as you saw, I just got paid my first $1000, so they are very real. And that payment came the very same day I asked for it!

There are not too many news releases you have to be flat for, but you better pay attention to the calendar. You have to be flat for 2 whole minutes. 1 before to 1 after.

I don't think you can go wrong with OneUp. They seem to give you more flexibility in terms of how you trade. But maybe TST has changed things since I tried them several years ago.

Success to you.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #44 (permalink)
Guadalajara + Jalisco/Mexico
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES MINI
 
Posts: 50 since Dec 2016
Thanks: 9 given, 7 received


sstheo View Post
The response to the micro futures will be interesting. And I don't know if they will be offered by One/Up and MES Capital. The spread and commissions might make them suitable only for swing trading (which is not a bad thing at all when you have a small account).

I tried TST several years ago and thought they were great. But at that time my style of inverted risk:reward with 95% winners did not sit well with them. They let me trade that way after I got clearance. I never completed a combine successfully after several attempts.

Then MES came to the scene, and I tried their combine for free before they joined up with OneUp. I did not succeed.

Once MES they teamed up with OneUp, I naturally wanted to try them because of my experience MES, and not knowing if TST still had the same rules.

I got funded with MES fairly quickly after trying the evaluation with OneUp. But I didn't keep all the rules. It was either trading through the news or hitting the max draw down. I am now on my 4th live account. I am doing all I can to make sure I stay alive this time.

Which is the better company? I really don't know. TST has been around longer, and so has worked out many of the bugs, but the people at OneUp and MES have been great. And as you saw, I just got paid my first $1000, so they are very real. And that payment came the very same day I asked for it!

There are not too many news releases you have to be flat for, but you better pay attention to the calendar. You have to be flat for 2 whole minutes. 1 before to 1 after.

I don't think you can go wrong with OneUp. They seem to give you more flexibility in terms of how you trade. But maybe TST has changed things since I tried them several years ago.

Success to you.


If Micro Futures is going to be similar of YM or ES (Instruments that i trade..) that is a good deal... If in there they add a high comission or spread (like Forex or CFD.... the same of those kind of brokers..) that is going to be a real shame... But... if in there are only the Comission like ES or YM only 1/10 of the value like they said... That is going to be awesome... and more for those who like to trade with a few contracts for do the partial trade management. Is only the reason that i want to wait to micro futures for see what is going to be the deal with them... If not im going to try with OneUp or TST.

Thank you for ur answer and yes... is awesome to see that picture that they already send u the money. BTW, with people from other countries.. is the same transfer? Obviously i think only with a days of difference for the deposit to be in the bank.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #45 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


contrax View Post
If Micro Futures is going to be similar of YM or ES (Instruments that i trade..) that is a good deal... If in there they add a high comission or spread (like Forex or CFD.... the same of those kind of brokers..) that is going to be a real shame... But... if in there are only the Comission like ES or YM only 1/10 of the value like they said... That is going to be awesome... and more for those who like to trade with a few contracts for do the partial trade management. Is only the reason that i want to wait to micro futures for see what is going to be the deal with them... If not im going to try with OneUp or TST.

Thank you for ur answer and yes... is awesome to see that picture that they already send u the money. BTW, with people from other countries.. is the same transfer? Obviously i think only with a days of difference for the deposit to be in the bank.

I am not sure about international wires. But there are many international traders with OneUp/MES, so they must have figured it all out!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #46 (permalink)
Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 957 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,380 given, 1,721 received


sstheo View Post
MES Capital asked me to head their Funded Trader text-only Chat room. That was an honor.....

Nice, good for you.
And you have changed your avatar picture in celebration of things going well! I can't remember what it was before, but it is pretty joyful now

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #47 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Tallinn, Estonia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Trading: NAS100
 
lemons's Avatar
 
Posts: 942 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 1,825 given, 2,258 received


sstheo View Post
The response to the micro futures will be interesting. And I don't know if they will be offered by One/Up and MES Capital.



Daytrading margin is only 40$
Its cheaper / better to open you own account.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to lemons for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #48 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


lemons View Post


Daytrading margin is only 40$
Its cheaper / better to open you own account.

Thanks so much.
I think you are on to something here!

Steve

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #49 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
 
snax's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,537 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 6,143 given, 6,128 received


sstheo View Post
MES Capital asked me to head their Funded Trader text-only Chat room. That was an honor.

I started today. It was pretty painless since everyone was quite professional.

And we had great discussions today with some very experienced traders.

So go pass a OneUp evaluation and then come hang out with us!

- Steve

(p.s. I don't get paid for managing the room)

Congrats, sounds like fun!

Are you finding the rules easy to abide by?

It also looks like I'd be able to use any of the listed platforms for free during the evaluation, which is pretty tempting!

Hope you continue to trade well!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to snax for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #50 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


snax View Post
Congrats, sounds like fun!

Are you finding the rules easy to abide by?

It also looks like I'd be able to use any of the listed platforms for free during the evaluation, which is pretty tempting!

Hope you continue to trade well!


The rules are easy yes, as long as you keep your eye on the calendar. This week has only one relevant news release, but most have a few. It's easy to be flat by 4:15 ET, and it's easy to keep the draw down in check and not trade more contract than I should.

Thanks for the encouragement. Some days are definitely harder to trade than others. I did about $200 net today, but Mon, Tues, I had small losses.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #51 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

Because tomorrow is a holiday, here is my report for the week.

I ended up will a net loss of ~$200 total profit for the week. However, I did pull $1000 out of the account on Monday, and I have added a "withdrawals" column on the spreadsheet.

I spent a lot of time this week losing $200! What happened? I did my best, but I wasn't able to overcome the (1) flatness of the market on Monday and Tuesday, and (2) the insane down and up of yesterday and today.

Today I was actually up $400, but ended back down close to $0. Crazy. I kept getting faked out in a market that looked like it wanted to break down, but kept rising higher and higher. LESSONS? (1) Take your money and walk away!!! (2) Markets are more erratic before a holiday/weekend. (3) Just because a market has a big down day doesn't mean it can't regain close to 100% of that move the next day. Crazy indeed.

However, I AM STILL ALIVE to trade on Monday. In the past, I might have taken too much risk on a day like today and blown my account.

Once again, I attribute my longevity to MES Capital and the forced $1,250 daily loss (on the $50k account). Yes, I am not ashamed to say this on FIO. I know I am in very understanding company.


Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #52 (permalink)
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 21 since Aug 2016
Thanks: 144 given, 42 received

I had a decent week this week according to ticks won but cheated like crazy when I got under pressure and broke my size rules, moved my stops, and proved that I still have a hard head.

Here' a good article by Linda Raschke, "Who Are You".

https://lindaraschke.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/SFO_raschke_0803.pdf

“The major work of the world is not done by geniuses. It is done by ordinary people, with balance in their lives, who have learned to work in an extraordinary manner.”
― Gordon B. Hinckley
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to mbondiett for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #53 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


mbondiett View Post
I had a decent week this week according to ticks won but cheated like crazy when I got under pressure and broke my size rules, moved my stops, and proved that I still have a hard head.

Here' a good article by Linda Raschke, "Who Are You".

https://lindaraschke.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/SFO_raschke_0803.pdf


The article looks awesome. I will read it soon. Your candor in your comments above shows you are sufficiently humble to finally become a great trader.

Time to start your own FIO Trading Journal!!!?

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #54 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

In a previous post I mentioned MNE (Maximum Negative Excursion). I have learned the the correct term to use is MAE or Maximum Adverse Excursion. The opposite is called MFE for Maximum Favorable Excursion.

Unfortunately, MAE and MFE are not available on OneUp or from MES Capital (or even MultiCharts because I am doing discretionary trading.)

Perhaps someone knows of a way on Multicharts to get this info?

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #55 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

Here is the FuturesTrader71 webinar done by BigMike with Morad Askar with Stage5 quoted earlier:

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #56 (permalink)
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 21 since Aug 2016
Thanks: 144 given, 42 received


sstheo View Post
In a previous post I mentioned MNE (Maximum Negative Excursion). I have learned the the correct term to use is MAE or Maximum Adverse Excursion. The opposite is called MFE for Maximum Favorable Excursion.

Unfortunately, MAE and MFE are not available on OneUp or from MES Capital (or even MultiCharts because I am doing discretionary trading.)

Perhaps someone knows of a way on Multicharts to get this info?

Hey Steve. I am running Ninja Trader and the analytics are standard. MAE, MFE, and ETD is default and you can have your metrics listed in currency, ticks, pips, points, or percentages. Too much to list here but here are a few of the screens I use every day to see how I have been doing. Of course this is only profiling 1 day but you can select a range of days as well a hours of the day and a bunch of other options..... and on and on.





“The major work of the world is not done by geniuses. It is done by ordinary people, with balance in their lives, who have learned to work in an extraordinary manner.”
― Gordon B. Hinckley
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to mbondiett for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #57 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


mbondiett View Post
Hey Steve. I am running Ninja Trader and the analytics are standard. MAE, MFE, and ETD is default and you can have your metrics listed in currency, ticks, pips, points, or percentages. Too much to list here but here are a few of the screens I use every day to see how I have been doing. Of course this is only profiling 1 day but you can select a range of days as well a hours of the day and a bunch of other options..... and on and on.

Great to know about NT, thanks.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #58 (permalink)
Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 957 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,380 given, 1,721 received


sstheo View Post
Unfortunately, MAE and MFE are not available on OneUp or from MES Capital (or even MultiCharts because I am doing discretionary trading.)

Perhaps someone knows of a way on Multicharts to get this info?

Never used Multicharts so can't say. But depending on the number of trades you are taking each day, if your charting package prints the entry and exit points on a chart it can be fairly quick to just scan through the chart and enter the number of ticks in to your own spreadsheet.

Or subscribe to/trial a service like Tradervue - https://www.tradervue.com:443/plans . The Silver service has MAE/MFE, and as an Elite member of this forum you can get a 20% monthly discount so it would cost less than $25.
They have MAE/MFE by tick distance or by Dollar amount (useful if scaling in and out during a trade. They do calculate MAE/MFE based on one minute charts though starting the bar after the entry minute bar, good enough most of the time but might be less accurate on very thin instruments like the Nasdaq or for very short duration trades.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #59 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

I had my second negative week in a row. I am not quite yet the "SuperTrader" I hope to become some day. But I did NOT blow my account like I have in the past.

What happened? I didn't navigate the crazy ups and downs well at all last week.

Here is the NQ for the week. chop, chop, chop, ZOOM, chop, chop, chop.



But the YM went sideways to down. chop chop chop chop. And when the two indicies are not in sync, I need to be much more careful, which I was not.

On the bright side, our new MES Capital LIVE trader Slack.com chat room is working great. We have about 8 participants and most are doing great. It is really exhilarating seeing some guys trading with 8 contracts on a $250k account who have been with MES for 2 full years.

I only see benefits being in the Slack chat room. The main benefit for me is watching others post trades they see and having them run into profit - trades I never considered. More socializing in this solitary business of trading. More eyes on the charts. Motivation and accountability.

I am still very optimistic I can get back up to the $5k mark and either make withdrawal #2 or get up to $8k and try two contracts.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #60 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
 
snax's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,537 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 6,143 given, 6,128 received


sstheo View Post
I am still very optimistic I can get back up to the $5k mark and either make withdrawal #2 or get up to $8k and try two contracts.

Thank you as always for sharing, @sstheo. I really enjoy reading your journal. I was wondering if you had any feedback to give on a couple of the rules, I may ask OneUp support about some of these rules on their site as well.

a) this rule seems weird to me: "Traders must have any 3 trading days' net profits total summed up to equal 80% of the largest day net profit." It is taken from this paragraph on the OneUp site, where they do not give an example of a rule-violation:



I don't even know how someone would sustain that condition over a meaningful period of time, unless I'm misunderstanding the rule. People have losing days, breakeven days, etc. this is the one rule that seems like carnival games, again, unless I'm mistaken. How does this play out in your experience?

b) Regarding your quote above, as I understand it from this page on the OneUp website...



...once your account balance has risen from breakeven and beyond the trailing drawdown threshhold, all that surplus accumulates to build a bigger and bigger drawdown cushion. I understand the potential need to take profits for personal expenses, taxes, etc. But apart from those items:

Are there any deterrents in the funded trader rules to simply growing the account as much as possible and building a very stable account with very little drawdown risk?

I hope these questions aren't too annoying and I wish you great trading luck!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to snax for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #61 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
 
snax's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,537 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 6,143 given, 6,128 received

I think I understand the 80% rule now, they seem to mean "can you find ANY 3 days that, when profits are summed, add up to 80% of your best day."

I apologize, I misunderstood that the first time I read it.

Also, I re-read my post and I feel like I'm bombarding you with questions, that wasn't my intention at all, I'm just glad to see you trading well and I'm interested in this evaluation too, potentially.

Have a great rest of your weekend @sstheo!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #62 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


snax View Post

Are there any deterrents in the funded trader rules to simply growing the account as much as possible and building a very stable account with very little drawdown risk?

I hope these questions aren't too annoying and I wish you great trading luck!


No deterrents at all! The only caution comes into play when a trader increases the account size and decides to trade with more positions - because the daily draw down amount does not change. This means that the per-position daily max loss is much smaller.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #63 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


snax View Post
I think I understand the 80% rule now, they seem to mean "can you find ANY 3 days that, when profits are summed, add up to 80% of your best day."

I apologize, I misunderstood that the first time I read it.

Also, I re-read my post and I feel like I'm bombarding you with questions, that wasn't my intention at all, I'm just glad to see you trading well and I'm interested in this evaluation too, potentially.

Have a great rest of your weekend @sstheo!


You got it! The 80% rule is a good rule, and it is only for the evaluation. They don't want someone getting lucky on NFP day and then taking 14 scalps the rest of the 15 days. LOL.

Ask all the questions you want!!!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #64 (permalink)
Guadalajara + Jalisco/Mexico
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES MINI
 
Posts: 50 since Dec 2016
Thanks: 9 given, 7 received

Hello, I have a question about "Funded Trader Dynamic Scaling Targets".

Example for a 250k account:

In the Evaluation, Maximium of 25 contracts.
Between 15 and 20 Trading Days u must have profit of $15,000usd


In the Funded Real 250k Account:

You now start at maximium of 6 Contracts, until you reach $0 - $5000usd
$5,001 - $12,000 12 Contracts
$12,000 - $20,000 18 Contracts
Over $20.001 25 Contracts.


In The Funded Real Account, you still have the "Profit Target"??? I dont think so because they are limiting you the contracts size from the current profit balance.

What happen if in the Real Account, you end at breakeven in the end of the month? Thank you.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to contrax for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #65 (permalink)
Antwerp
 
 
Posts: 454 since Jun 2016


contrax View Post
Hello, I have a question about "Funded Trader Dynamic Scaling Targets".

Example for a 250k account:

In the Evaluation, Maximium of 25 contracts.
Between 15 and 20 Trading Days u must have profit of $15,000usd


In the Funded Real 250k Account:

You now start at maximium of 6 Contracts, until you reach $0 - $5000usd
$5,001 - $12,000 12 Contracts
$12,000 - $20,000 18 Contracts
Over $20.001 25 Contracts.


In The Funded Real Account, you still have the "Profit Target"??? I dont think so because they are limiting you the contracts size from the current profit balance.

What happen if in the Real Account, you end at breakeven in the end of the month? Thank you.

There is no profit target in the real account, it means you must have reached at least $20K profit before you can trade the 25 contacts, it doesn't matter how long it takes.

All you need to do is to keep a positive balance after 15 days and every 15 days there after for the first 90 days.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #66 (permalink)
Guadalajara + Jalisco/Mexico
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES MINI
 
Posts: 50 since Dec 2016
Thanks: 9 given, 7 received


RDK91 View Post
There is no profit target in the real account, it means you must have reached at least $20K profit before you can trade the 25 contacts, it doesn't matter how long it takes.

All you need to do is to keep a positive balance after 15 days and every 15 days there after for the first 90 days.

Thank you for ur reply (i tought i already reply to this hahaha), Then, in the real funded account, they doesnt care how much time you take to grow the account... They only focus to you be at breakeven/profits every 15 days? (And obviously focus in the rules from Evaluation plus the flat trade during news)

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #67 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


contrax View Post
Thank you for ur reply (i tought i already reply to this hahaha), Then, in the real funded account, they doesnt care how much time you take to grow the account... They only focus to you be at breakeven/profits every 15 days? (And obviously focus in the rules from Evaluation plus the flat trade during news)

That is correct.

And that requirement is waived at the 90 calendar day mark.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #68 (permalink)
Boston, MA
 
Experience: None
 
Posts: 12 since Apr 2019
Thanks: 9 given, 12 received

Hey!

I was looking at their profit info -- does anyone know how it works with a 50k amount? Let's say I make 8k with Oneup, is the max I can withdraw 5.5k? What happens to the remaining 2.5k? Will I receive it when I no longer trade with Oneup?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #69 (permalink)
Antwerp
 
 
Posts: 454 since Jun 2016


dyoung View Post
Hey!

I was looking at their profit info -- does anyone know how it works with a 50k amount? Let's say I make 8k with Oneup, is the max I can withdraw 5.5k? What happens to the remaining 2.5k? Will I receive it when I no longer trade with Oneup?

You can receive up to 50% of the withdrawal threshold when you close the account, depeing on the time you have spent in the funded account.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #70 (permalink)
Guadalajara + Jalisco/Mexico
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES MINI
 
Posts: 50 since Dec 2016
Thanks: 9 given, 7 received


sstheo View Post
That is correct.

And that requirement is waived at the 90 calendar day mark.


Hello, i have a question about the Rule of to be flat on some News.

I send an email to ONEUP support about it, and they send me this link:

https://global-premium.econoday.com/byweek.asp?cust=global-premium&cty=US&lid=0


But i dont know exactly what news should be, i reply them but until now they didnt respond me.

Can u help me with that?

Where are you watching the Calendar News?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #71 (permalink)
Antwerp
 
 
Posts: 454 since Jun 2016


contrax View Post
Hello, i have a question about the Rule of to be flat on some News.

I send an email to ONEUP support about it, and they send me this link:

https://global-premium.econoday.com/byweek.asp?cust=global-premium&cty=US&lid=0


But i dont know exactly what news should be, i reply them but until now they didnt respond me.

Can u help me with that?

Where are you watching the Calendar News?

All the information you need is on the website.


For major economic releases, Funded Traders must be flat before, during, and after a corresponding major economic release below

The funding partners refer to this Economic Calendar, for details on each event refer to Event Definitions



ALL PRODUCTS

FOMC Statement / Meeting Annoucement

FOMC Minutes / Press Conference



EQUITY INDEXES, CURRENCIES, INTEREST RATE FUTURES, AND METALS

Unemployment Rate / Claims

ADP/Non-Farm Employment Change

US GDP (Advance, Preliminary, Final)



CRUDE OIL AND NATURAL GAS PRODUCTS - CL, QM, NG, QG, HO

Crude Oil Inventories - EIA Petroleum Report

EIA Natural Gas Report



GRAINS FOR THEIR CORRESPONDING REPORTS - ZC, ZS, ZW, ZM, ZL

Crop Production



CURRENCIES - 6A, 6B, 6C, 6E, 6J, 6S, 6N, mini-currency pairs

Central Bank Announcements, GDP, and Unemployment with respect to local currency (ex. Bank of England - 6B, European Central Bank-6E)



IF ANY NEWS EVENT IS NOT LISTED ABOVE, MEANS YOU CAN TRADE THROUGH IT AND YOU MAY HOLD POSITIONS DURING THAT EVENT. TRADES WITH A DURATION LESS THAN 10 SECONDS PRIOR / DURING / AFTER ANY NEWS EVENT IS PROHIBITED

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #72 (permalink)
Guadalajara + Jalisco/Mexico
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES MINI
 
Posts: 50 since Dec 2016
Thanks: 9 given, 7 received


RDK91 View Post
All the information you need is on the website.


For major economic releases, Funded Traders must be flat before, during, and after a corresponding major economic release below

The funding partners refer to this Economic Calendar, for details on each event refer to Event Definitions



ALL PRODUCTS

FOMC Statement / Meeting Annoucement

FOMC Minutes / Press Conference



EQUITY INDEXES, CURRENCIES, INTEREST RATE FUTURES, AND METALS

Unemployment Rate / Claims

ADP/Non-Farm Employment Change

US GDP (Advance, Preliminary, Final)



CRUDE OIL AND NATURAL GAS PRODUCTS - CL, QM, NG, QG, HO

Crude Oil Inventories - EIA Petroleum Report

EIA Natural Gas Report



GRAINS FOR THEIR CORRESPONDING REPORTS - ZC, ZS, ZW, ZM, ZL

Crop Production



CURRENCIES - 6A, 6B, 6C, 6E, 6J, 6S, 6N, mini-currency pairs

Central Bank Announcements, GDP, and Unemployment with respect to local currency (ex. Bank of England - 6B, European Central Bank-6E)



IF ANY NEWS EVENT IS NOT LISTED ABOVE, MEANS YOU CAN TRADE THROUGH IT AND YOU MAY HOLD POSITIONS DURING THAT EVENT. TRADES WITH A DURATION LESS THAN 10 SECONDS PRIOR / DURING / AFTER ANY NEWS EVENT IS PROHIBITED

Yes i know, before i ask something i always make my reasearch. But the Author is already funded member and i want to know where He watch the Calendar and with what names exactly in his calendar.

Thank you for ur reply.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #73 (permalink)
Antwerp
 
 
Posts: 454 since Jun 2016


contrax View Post
Yes i know, before i ask something i always make my reasearch. But the Author is already funded member and i want to know where He watch the Calendar and with what names exactly in his calendar.

Thank you for ur reply.

Any decent economic calendar will do, there are hundreds out there.
I personally use https://www.fxstreet.com/economic-calendar

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #74 (permalink)
Guadalajara + Jalisco/Mexico
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES MINI
 
Posts: 50 since Dec 2016
Thanks: 9 given, 7 received


RDK91 View Post
Any decent economic calendar will do, there are hundreds out there.
I personally use https://www.fxstreet.com/economic-calendar

Are you a funded member too?

If not, we are at the same page... I know a few very serious "Economic Calendar"...

Im just asking to a Funded Member for dont have any risk of confuse... For know exactly what News He is avoiding with his Economic Calendar and exactly what names in his Economic Calendar.

Thats all.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #75 (permalink)
Antwerp
 
 
Posts: 454 since Jun 2016


contrax View Post
Are you a funded member too?

If not, we are at the same page... I know a few very serious "Economic Calendar"...

Im just asking to a Funded Member for dont have any risk of confuse... For know exactly what News He is avoiding with his Economic Calendar and exactly what names in his Economic Calendar.

Thats all.

You just have to avoid the news mentioned on the OneUp website and the economic calendar from FxStreet shows them all ... (Except for the crop production numbers maybe, never traded those products).

I really don't get the problem? Just take any economic calendar out there, check if they show the economic releases that you have to avoid et voila, problem solved.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #76 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

https://global-premium.econoday.com/byweek.asp?cust=global-premium&cty=US&lid=0

This is the official MES calendar.

sstheo

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #77 (permalink)
Oklahoma City OK US
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Charts
Trading: ES M6E/6E
 
binarylonewolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 19 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 46 given, 70 received

@sstheo,

I had a couple of questions about OneUp funded account. I have seriously been considering them over TST after a not so friendly encounter with TST.

First, can you use NinjaTrader in the funded account? I see that Ninja is recommended as a platform, but what DOM is actually used to place the trades? I have a lifetime license for Ninja and I know there is no data fee once funded, but can you place your OneUp trades using Ninja? I know Ninja only has like 2-3 brokers that can be used for actual trading.

Second, on the test account, if you do not reset, do you still have access to the account for demo trading as previously mentioned to avoid reset? TST seemed very agitated when I asked them that question and I did not even mention the reason for not resetting.

Third, once funded, about how long does it take to get everything setup to trade live?

Lastly, you mentioned a few times that after 90 days certain rules change, can you elaborate on those? For instance, you mentioned the 15-day profitability rule for the first 90 days, what other rules or guidelines change?

I think you've been doing awesome and really appreciate your transparency as it helped me make a decision between TST and OneUp. Also I had a way to sign up using your link, and because I cannot message you privately (not enough posts sadly) I could not request it from you. May you PM it to me and I will be happy to sign up using your link?

Blessings Abound,

Wolf

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #78 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


binarylonewolf View Post
@sstheo,

I had a couple of questions about OneUp funded account. I have seriously been considering them over TST after a not so friendly encounter with TST.

First, can you use NinjaTrader in the funded account? I see that Ninja is recommended as a platform, but what DOM is actually used to place the trades? I have a lifetime license for Ninja and I know there is no data fee once funded, but can you place your OneUp trades using Ninja? I know Ninja only has like 2-3 brokers that can be used for actual trading.

Second, on the test account, if you do not reset, do you still have access to the account for demo trading as previously mentioned to avoid reset? TST seemed very agitated when I asked them that question and I did not even mention the reason for not resetting.

Third, once funded, about how long does it take to get everything setup to trade live?

Lastly, you mentioned a few times that after 90 days certain rules change, can you elaborate on those? For instance, you mentioned the 15-day profitability rule for the first 90 days, what other rules or guidelines change?

I think you've been doing awesome and really appreciate your transparency as it helped me make a decision between TST and OneUp. Also I had a way to sign up using your link, and because I cannot message you privately (not enough posts sadly) I could not request it from you. May you PM it to me and I will be happy to sign up using your link?

Blessings Abound,

Wolf

I know that Ninja is the most common platform used on OneUp. I use Multicharts, but I don't think you should have any trouble with Ninja.

If you hit your stop, I don't think you have access to sim trade. The platform is locked. But I will ask. I think this is where the new micro-indicie futures should come into your plan. Open a live account with any broker and trade the new contracts that are 1/10 the size of the regular futures contracts.

I will ask MES about the specifics of the 90 day rule.

Thanks.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #79 (permalink)
Guadalajara + Jalisco/Mexico
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES MINI
 
Posts: 50 since Dec 2016
Thanks: 9 given, 7 received



Thank you, and yes... that is the same link i recieve from OneUp support.

I reply them abount specify the name in that calendar:

US:FOMC Meeting Begins

US:FOMC Minutes

US:FOMC Meeting Announcement


US:ADP Employment Report

US:Employment Situation


US:GDP




Those of above are the news that we need to be on Flat right 1min before and 1min after the news. For example if one is at 10:00 we need to be flat at 9:59 until 10:01

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #80 (permalink)
Burnaby Canada
 
 
Posts: 26 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 2 given, 19 received

Congrats! very exciting and interesting process you been on. I have 3 questions if you would be so kind to answer.

1. Did your orders always show up in the LIVE dom?


As I heard oneup leave traders in the sim unless profitable


2. Does the traildown once hit $2500 profit stay at $50k even when you withdraw the $2500?

as in, if you withdraw all your money, and are down 1 tick, you lose the account?


3. Are you not allowed to trade the full number of contracts when you withdraw all your profits?

Like you are now allowed to trade 6 lots, but if you withdraw all your profits, do they reset you back to 1 lot or something?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #81 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


Courage View Post
Congrats! very exciting and interesting process you been on. I have 3 questions if you would be so kind to answer.

1. Did your orders always show up in the LIVE dom?


As I heard oneup leave traders in the sim unless profitable


2. Does the traildown once hit $2500 profit stay at $50k even when you withdraw the $2500?

as in, if you withdraw all your money, and are down 1 tick, you lose the account?


3. Are you not allowed to trade the full number of contracts when you withdraw all your profits?

Like you are now allowed to trade 6 lots, but if you withdraw all your profits, do they reset you back to 1 lot or something?

Great questions!

Even though I have withdrawn money, my orders are not yet reflected in the DOM. Hopefully soon. I am not as profitable (yet) as some traders.

On the $50k account, you have to be at at least $3,500 to withdraw funds, and you can only withdraw $1000 in this case. Once you cross $52,500, then your minimum account balance before liquidation is $50,000. If you have $55,000 in the account (like I did at my first withdrawal), then you could withdraw a max of $2,500. (I withdrew $1,000 at that time).

The scaling rules are in effect at all times on the balance. For the $50k account it looks like this



So if I am at $5k then withdraw back down to $2,500, then I will be limited to 4 contracts instead of 6.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #82 (permalink)
Burnaby Canada
 
 
Posts: 26 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 2 given, 19 received


sstheo View Post
Great questions!

Even though I have withdrawn money, my orders are not yet reflected in the DOM. Hopefully soon. I am not as profitable (yet) as some traders.

On the $50k account, you have to be at at least $3,500 to withdraw funds, and you can only withdraw $1000 in this case. Once you cross $52,500, then your minimum account balance before liquidation is $50,000. If you have $55,000 in the account (like I did at my first withdrawal), then you could withdraw a max of $2,500. (I withdrew $1,000 at that time).

The scaling rules are in effect at all times on the balance. For the $50k account it looks like this



So if I am at $5k then withdraw back down to $2,500, then I will be limited to 4 contracts instead of 6.

What is the reason for "If you have $55,000 in the account (like I did at my first withdrawal), then you could withdraw a max of $2,500."

If you made $5,000 in a $50k account to bring it to $55k, shouldn't you be able to withdraw $5k?

Does Oneup holds $2,500 forever?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Courage for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #83 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

Thank you to those who are following my MES Journal. I have THREE big announcements:

1) New $150k live account. I have had so much success with my $50k account that I decided I wanted to qualify for an upgrade to a $150k MES account which would let me trade with 15 contracts and have a larger daily draw down to give me more breathing room. So I jumped in with a 40% discount code from OneUp for having a live MES account. I am happy to report that after 3 weeks of trading (the minimum), I just met the $9,000 goal on Friday on the 15th trading day with $9,005. I should be live with a new $150k account by Wed or Thu next week and will start reporting on this new live account.

p.s. If you try the evaluation, please give yourself 30, 60, or 90 trading days to reach the goal instead of just 15 days (which is the minimum). 30 days would be $300 or 6% per day (based on the $5,000 max draw down allowed), 60 days would be $150 or 3% per day, and 90 days would be $100 or 1.5% per day. The best hedge funds in the world can't sustain 1% per day. So be kind to yourself, and take your time.

2) Referral. If you have found my journal to be helpful, please let things flow back this way a bit. OneUp has started a referral program. I can't post the link here, but if you PM me privately, I will give you a link to sign up, and OneUp will give me a referral fee. There is no extra cost to you.

3) Free trader chat room. There are about 10 great traders in a FREE Slack.com chat room that I started for funded (or previously funded) traders. We meet daily, especially during the first two hours of the NY session. I have talked with my co-host, and we have decided to open it up to ALL traders who have ever been funded by OneUp/MES, TopStep, OR any other trader who feels they have reached some level of competence and thinks they have something to add. We are not going to turn anyone away, but we do discuss some advanced concepts and don't want anyone to be lost; so if you have been trading for less than one year, please keep learning and PM me when you feel you are ready. In the room people do call out trades at times, but the room is much more than a "free trade" room. (BTW, following someone else's trades can be a very risky thing! Everything is at your own risk!). We are brothers and sisters in the battle to remain profitable. We rejoice in each others successes and console after the bad trades (we all have them). We toss in some humor. We try to keep the language clean. We have fun for sure. PLEASE JOIN US. PM me for the link.

Steve

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #84 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


Courage View Post
What is the reason for "If you have $55,000 in the account (like I did at my first withdrawal), then you could withdraw a max of $2,500."

If you made $5,000 in a $50k account to bring it to $55k, shouldn't you be able to withdraw $5k?

Does Oneup holds $2,500 forever?


For the $50k account, they keep the $2,500 in reserve according to this schedule (from my contract):




SUMMARY: The amount you can withdraw from the reserve is scaled, but after 90 days, you get to keep a maximum of 80% of the reserve amount (consistent with the overall 80% profit plan).

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #85 (permalink)
Antwerp
 
 
Posts: 454 since Jun 2016


sstheo View Post
SUMMARY: The amount you can withdraw from the reserve is scaled, but after 90 days, you get to keep a maximum of 80% of the reserve amount (consistent with the overall 80% profit plan).

The maximum you can withdraw from the threshold is 50% after 90 days, not 80%.

Edit: looks like i am in the wrong here, it actually is 80%.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #86 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


RDK91 View Post
The maximum you can withdraw from the threshold is 50% after 90 days, not 80%.

Edit: looks like i am in the wrong here, it actually is 80%.


If someone elects from day one for the 50% profit plan, then you are correct. The max they could get out of the reserve account after 90 days would be 50%. 80% plan would be 80%.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #87 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

It took about 4 days for MES to get me started with the upgrade live $150k account, but the deed is done as of this Friday afternoon.

I took one scratch trade this afternoon to test things out and it worked, so I am ready for a new day, week, and month. May was a rotten one for the markets for sure, but not for day traders who are not married to their positions.

I really feel for the bulls right now, but they have had their fun in the last couple years. Now it is time for bears and "directionally-opportunistic traders" to have their turn.

I am eager to continue the success I had on my live $50k account. While my averages were amazing the first month, they trailed off once I decided I was going to swap up to $150k. But if I continue those averages, then I will aim for the following:
  • $275 per day
  • 12 trades per day
  • $25 avg gross profit per position
  • Generally upsloping graph with low draw downs

I have to be above $0 on day 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, and 90.

I have to not hit the $4000 intraday limit at any time and can't let the account drop below a max of -$5000.

I was about to say "Off to the races!" but this one is not a race. It's all about steady growth with no time limit.

-Steve

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #88 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
 
Posts: 64 since May 2018
Thanks: 53 given, 83 received


sstheo View Post
It took about 4 days for MES to get me started with the upgrade live $150k account, but the deed is done as of this Friday afternoon.

I took one scratch trade this afternoon to test things out and it worked, so I am ready for a new day, week, and month. May was a rotten one for the markets for sure, but not for day traders who are not married to their positions.

I really feel for the bulls right now, but they have had their fun in the last couple years. Now it is time for bears and "directionally-opportunistic traders" to have their turn.

I am eager to continue the success I had on my live $50k account. While my averages were amazing the first month, they trailed off once I decided I was going to swap up to $150k. But if I continue those averages, then I will aim for the following:
  • $275 per day
  • 12 trades per day
  • $25 avg gross profit per position
  • Generally upsloping graph with low draw downs

I have to be above $0 on day 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, and 90.

I have to not hit the $4000 intraday limit at any time and can't let the account drop below a max of -$5000.

I was about to say "Off to the races!" but this one is not a race. It's all about steady growth with no time limit.

-Steve

I thought if you hit the $4000 intraday limit, you're simply stopped out and can't trade until the next day?

This was the biggest differentiator b/w OUT and others like TST since with TST, if you hit the daily loss limit, you immediately flunk out whereas with OUT, they simply stop you out and let you resume trading the next day.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to canoekoh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #89 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


canoekoh View Post
I thought if you hit the $4000 intraday limit, you're simply stopped out and can't trade until the next day?

This was the biggest differentiator b/w OUT and others like TST since with TST, if you hit the daily loss limit, you immediately flunk out whereas with OUT, they simply stop you out and let you resume trading the next day.


Yes, you are correct. If you hit $4,000 on the $150k account you are not automatically flunked, but have another $1000 toward the max drawdown to deal with the next day.

But here is what is interesting. After my own initial experience on my old funded accounts and after talking with other traders, you should know that you MAY NOT automatically be flattened by the system at -$4000.

For sure you will NOT be able to add additional contracts if below -$4000, but if the market is tanking (for example), it may allow you to go all the way to -$5000 before stopping you out.

The only prudent thing to do is keep the losses small from day to day. I am going to be using -$2000 as my absolute max loss on a daily basis until I grow the account to above $160k.

-Steve

p.s. remember to that the max drawdown is computed INTRADAY. So if you were up $1000 in the morning before you reach -$4000 in the afternoon then you just got killed.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #90 (permalink)
Shirley
 
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2019
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received

I have lurked on and off in this forum for a while. I mostly trade stock options, but have wanted to give a go at futures more than ever since I got Bookmap. I think I will try Oneup. When I'm ready I will ask you for the referral details.

Congratulations on your success and thanks for sharing your journey.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Bobabob for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #91 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


Bobabob View Post
I have lurked on and off in this forum for a while. I mostly trade stock options, but have wanted to give a go at futures more than ever since I got Bookmap. I think I will try Oneup. When I'm ready I will ask you for the referral details.

Congratulations on your success and thanks for sharing your journey.

Thanks Bobabob.

My main motivation for writing is to hold myself accountable, but your post identifies my secondary motivation for taking the time to record my adventures.

I hope to memorialize the true account of an amateur becoming a successful trader and in the process, help others to have the courage to go for it too.

Perhaps it will end up being the story of abject failure and violent screams as I go down in flames; but I am doing my best to make it something worth singing about.

Steve

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #92 (permalink)
Detroit, MI/USA
 
 
Posts: 38 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 2 given, 9 received


Bobabob View Post
I have lurked on and off in this forum for a while. I mostly trade stock options, but have wanted to give a go at futures more than ever since I got Bookmap. I think I will try Oneup. When I'm ready I will ask you for the referral details.

Congratulations on your success and thanks for sharing your journey.

save your money the CME has micro contracts trade MNS MES trade those if your completely new to futures these combines offer no real advantage for someone trying to learn to trade. Unless you are able to get funded to learn use micro contracts you can get started for less than what you would loss on combines.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to caacapital for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #93 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


caacapital View Post
save your money the CME has micro contracts trade MNS MES trade those if your completely new to futures these combines offer no real advantage for someone trying to learn to trade. Unless you are able to get funded to learn use micro contracts you can get started for less than what you would loss on combines.

Caacapital, I think your observation is spot on. 100% truth. Five stars to you good sir.

I have been hoping for these micro contracts for about 10 years now, and I am excited they are finally here. I just started trading them last week on a $1000 Amp account. So far so good.

Not all brokers have the pricing down to the level of Amp ($.74 RT in the literature, but really $.78) or Ninja ($.82 RT). OEC says the FCM hasn't lowered the fees to them yet (say what???). But most traders should now have access to index trading at a margin level that is safe for beginners.

I really appreciated FuturesTrader71's webinar. It really opened my eyes

Here are two more videos on micros:

And

If someone can't put $1000 into an account and start trading micros, then for sure they can't afford the $2000 to $5000 (my estimate) that most people will spend on the combine/evaluation mill at TST/OneUp/LeeLoo (all the ones I have tried). If these had come out two years ago, then I probably would not have spent the thousands I have on the evaluations.

If fact, I have been encouraging the traders in my chat room who fail an evaluation or live account with MES to go to the micros. I will do more of this on my posts here. I have not been trying to position MES as the answer to the questions of the universe, but just post my personal journey.

Nevertheless, I DO have a brand new $150k MES account to begin trading this very morning, and I will do my best and keep posting my results here.

But I will also do my best with my new "micro account" on Amp. Does this deserve a new journal? No--too much work, but I guess the race has just begun between my two accounts. I want both of them to succeed. And I can show the results of both here.

Thanks again.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #94 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received

As I wrote the last post, I believe now that most traders should probably NOW use the new gift from Heaven called "The Micros" instead of getting on the combine treadmill.

However, based on my conversations with a couple great traders in our new chat room, I think that TST, OneUp, LeeLoo, and Earn2Trade (and others) DO have a place in the world--

I think they are great for experienced traders who want to get "FREE" money. Even if they pay 20% split, after a relatively small initial investment of $200 to $500 (depending on the size of the new account), they have 6 to 20+ contracts to trade with.

After siphoning off profits for safety, these types of accounts can continue to be great while things grow. And as long as we are careful to not mix up our accounts, as happened to one trader in our room last week (he accidentally broke a rule on his MES live account thinking it was another account), then all should be fine.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #95 (permalink)
Dallas TX/US
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 131 since May 2012
Thanks: 1,002 given, 448 received

1. Volume. Because MES doesn't want people just sitting there doing nothing, I now have to trade at least 50% of the volume during the evaluation. So I have to trade at least 6 trades per day, but this is easy, because I am using the same style and am currently at 10 trades/day.

What if you want to take a vacation or have something come up?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to kingjelly for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #96 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


kingjelly View Post
1. Volume. Because MES doesn't want people just sitting there doing nothing, I now have to trade at least 50% of the volume during the evaluation. So I have to trade at least 6 trades per day, but this is easy, because I am using the same style and am currently at 10 trades/day.

What if you want to take a vacation or have something come up?

Great question. MES is great about responding to emails, and they said all you have to do is email them when you are going on vacation.

But remember that the volume requirement is by the WEEK, not the day. Also, I just found out they count the TRADES not the contracts.

-Steve

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to sstheo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #97 (permalink)
Shirley
 
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2019
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received


caacapital View Post
save your money the CME has micro contracts trade MNS MES trade those if your completely new to futures these combines offer no real advantage for someone trying to learn to trade. Unless you are able to get funded to learn use micro contracts you can get started for less than what you would loss on combines.

It isn't getting through the evaluation that concerns me. It's the vagueness of the rules in print. Nowhere does it say that you have to make a minimum amount of trades a day or week on the rules. It pretty much goes against everything I have learned about trading. While I am an active trader, I think the rules are little more than land mines designed to boot you out. At least that's the impression I'm getting.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Bobabob for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #98 (permalink)
Detroit, MI/USA
 
 
Posts: 38 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 2 given, 9 received


Bobabob View Post
It isn't getting through the evaluation that concerns me. It's the vagueness of the rules in print. Nowhere does it say that you have to make a minimum amount of trades a day or week on the rules. It pretty much goes against everything I have learned about trading. While I am an active trader, I think the rules are little more than land mines designed to boot you out. At least that's the impression I'm getting.

All of these companies have a minimum trade requirement listed somewhere on their sites. the only reason i can think of is to get you to fail. Thought they will say its to get an accurate sample of your trading skill but none of the funding time frames support this get funded in 15 days is the main selling point so thats counter to getting a true sample of skill.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #99 (permalink)
Shirley
 
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2019
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received


caacapital View Post
All of these companies have a minimum trade requirement listed somewhere on their sites. the only reason i can think of is to get you to fail. Thought they will say its to get an accurate sample of your trading skill but none of the funding time frames support this get funded in 15 days is the main selling point so thats counter to getting a true sample of skill.

I'm going to finish the free trial and opened a futures account at TS to trade the Micro ES. I may give the evaluation a try at some point in time in the future. (No pun intended) Didn't mean to highjack your thread. Looking forward to your continued postings.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #100 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2K
 
sstheo's Avatar
 
Posts: 152 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 421 received


Bobabob View Post
It isn't getting through the evaluation that concerns me. It's the vagueness of the rules in print. Nowhere does it say that you have to make a minimum amount of trades a day or week on the rules. It pretty much goes against everything I have learned about trading. While I am an active trader, I think the rules are little more than land mines designed to boot you out. At least that's the impression I'm getting.

MES has told me that they have had traders who have qualified, started to trade, and then just let the account lie dormant. They needed a rule to protect themselves from this scenario. And "50% of the average trade count per week" seems extremely reasonable to me.

To prove the point, I asked MES this very question during my trial,
"I have a question regarding the minimum average number of trades to take per week to stay in compliance. I am asking because during the recent market volatility, I took a lot of trades. I want to reduce the number of REQUIRED trades on my live account.

What is considered a "trade"? Is a trade counted as just ONE trade, even if it has four contracts? Or is that considered FOUR trades for accounting purposes?

I would really like it if you said that I could trade 10 contracts per day instead of 10 trades per day (for example)!"
They replied,
"Scaling in and out counts as multiple trades. If you buy and sell in one shot as described above it would be one trade. Please keep in mind these rules are never really hard for anyone that is trading somewhat normal and we are very lenient with it. Like nearly all of our rules, they had to be enforced because people would try and take advantage of the situation or quit trading after being close to their draw downs without letting us know."
So there you have it. If you are reasonable, MES will be reasonable too.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sstheo for this post:


futures io Trading Community Trading Journals > My MES Live Account Journal (OneUp)


Last Updated on July 28, 2019


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
 

Battlestations! Show us your trading desk - $1,500 in prizes!

March
 

Importance of Finding Your Own Way w/Adam Grimes

Elite only
 

Journal Challenge w/Jigsaw

April
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts