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My MES Live Account Journal (OneUp)
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My MES Live Account Journal (OneUp)

  #31 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Favorite Futures: NQ YM
 
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Posts: 69 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 51 given, 167 received


matthew28 View Post
I like the idea of the Regressive sizing. I must have watched a similar video a while ago because I have a screenshot I took from it.

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At least if you start with a string of losses like above one is losing less and less on each trade and can then increase as the day's balance gets back to and above zero. I wouldn't think of scaling back as "punishing myself for bad trading" but instead exercising a tested risk management model that will allow you to be more profitable over time yet ride out inevitable drawdowns.

The trouble with the Progressive model is that if making money straight from the start then knowing that when the first loss comes it will be on the largest size of the day but each of the previous wins will have been on lower size.

Also agree with only going up to two lots when you are ready. I remember somebody saying that the largest increase in size they recommend is when a person goes from 1 to 2 lots (100% increase). And then increase again only if profitable at that size level.

Yes, that's the same presentation and screen shot. Thanks for finding it!

Epiphany time--

I appreciate the logic in your statements about the true psychology of Regressive scaling. It's not punishing; it's protecting. And that is my #1 stated goal in the very same post! It's immediately reducing size if something is wrong. Then, with better trading or market conditions, I can earn it back.

Going a step further, by my taking the first trade of the day with max contracts, I am saying, "I trust myself and my style, and I am confident, and I will win!" So the Regressive approach is actually the most optimistic and least punitive of the three approaches. Both the Progressive and Combo methods say, "I am not sure you can do this. Let's watch. I am going to hold you back until you prove you can do this." So in reality, with Progressive and Combo, the OneUp evaluation actually continues each day, instead of saying "You passed, now let's go make some money!"

The largest loss of the day truly can happen at any time, but with the Progressive approach, as you explained well, I do see that I am guaranteeing that it will be a painful one. The Regressive approach will allow me to have built up a bigger buffer earlier in the day.

Testing with my own 249 trades, reported above, proved to me that the Regressive approach produces the most profit. Hmmm. It's almost time to plant my garden. Why would I intentionally plant a lower-yielding variety of anything???

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And In a twist here I just realized that perhaps the Regressive model is actually the LEAST risky because I am building my account faster and have more cash as a buffer against the future inevitable draw down.

And good point on the risk of that first contract addition. There is a direct correlation with having kids. Adding a second child is way more stressful than adding a third.

Conclusion: When I feel ready to start this new scaling adventure, I will try the optimistic and confident Regressive approach. I will start with the max contracts each day and then reduce the the number of contracts, as required, according the scaling plan. Because of the potential for loss and increased stress, I will start with a max of 2 for now. I will consider 3,4, 5, and 6 only after profitability is proven and my confidence is high. There is no need to rush this.

And if all else fails, I can go back to 1 contract....

Thanks again @matthew28.

-Steve


Last edited by sstheo; April 14th, 2019 at 11:20 AM.
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  #32 (permalink)
Legendary Elite Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw daytradr
Favorite Futures: US Equity Index Futures
 
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Posts: 666 since Sep 2013
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I like your reply. You have expanded much more on my couple of sentences and given me food for thought. Thanks.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
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  #33 (permalink)
Chicago
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Favorite Futures: (June 13, 2019): /MESM9 - current expectancy = (9.8025 * 0.7043) - (10.5588 * 0.2957) = 3.7817 ticks
 
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Posts: 362 since Feb 2019
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Hi @sstheo,

Congrats! You are doing quite well!

I had some simple questions:

1) Does your funding partner make it clear to you exactly which "major economic events" you need to be out of the market (ie. "Flat") for?

2) I saw you mentioned a "minimum 6 trades per day" rule. Does this mean you have to complete 6 trades even while having a bad losing day? (I guess if you minimize to 1 contract and use reasonable stops you should be able to stay within the drawdown-limits even if all your trades lose.)

3) Do you feel this experience is helping you become a better trader in any particular way?

Thank you!
snax

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  #34 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Favorite Futures: NQ YM
 
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Posts: 69 since Oct 2012
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snax View Post
Hi @sstheo,

Congrats! You are doing quite well!

I had some simple questions:

1) Does your funding partner make it clear to you exactly which "major economic events" you need to be out of the market (ie. "Flat") for?

2) I saw you mentioned a "minimum 6 trades per day" rule. Does this mean you have to complete 6 trades even while having a bad losing day? (I guess if you minimize to 1 contract and use reasonable stops you should be able to stay within the drawdown-limits even if all your trades lose.)

3) Do you feel this experience is helping you become a better trader in any particular way?

Thank you!
snax

1) Yes, MES provides a list of the releases to watch out for https://help.oneuptrader.com/help/economic-release-calendar And they also give the relevant calendar. https://global-premium.econoday.com/byweek.asp?cust=global-premium&cty=US&lid=0If I am unclear about a particular release then I email MES and they get right back to me.

2) The 6 trades per day is ONLY FOR ME. And it is really a requirement for "30 trades per week." The GENERAL rule is that a funded trader must trade at least 50% of the average number of trades take per week during the Evaluation. For me that was about 60 trades per week, so I have to trade at least 30 per week. (For a really good trader, it might work out to just 1 to 3 per day.)

3) I would say that after 14 years of inconsistent trading, this is the first time that I have felt totally in control of my trading, despite the hightened volatility in the market. Why? I think it is simply the external 2-step guardrail that MES is providing. #1 is the fixed daily loss (with good chance of recovery the next day) and #2 is the threat of account closure at the Max Draw Down and then having to spend at least 4 more weeks in another Evaluation - plus all the costs.

BUT WHY have I failed so many times before? That's what I want to know!!! But here is what I have come up with so far. I know this seems really odd, but in all cases, NOBODY BUT ME WAS WATCHING. Since 2005, I think I have blown up more personal IB, OEC, and AMP accounts that anyone in the world. (Not to mention Nadex, and dozens FX accounts too!) It didn't matter that I hit a margin call. I could just deposit $500 or $1000 more and keep going. I did not have an external enforcement entity except the margin call. And I was underfunded IN ALL CASES, and in all cases I was not careful enough.

(Now here is my bright idea of the day). Therefore, in this light, I'd like to say that while IB, and AMP and OEC (and all other brokers) have margin calls, to increase the longevity of their account holders, they might FORCE them to select a DAILY max draw down % of no more than 50% of the margin call level. This would give all account holders at least 2 days to figure out that their trajectory is a really bad one.


Last edited by sstheo; April 14th, 2019 at 10:44 PM.
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  #35 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Favorite Futures: NQ YM
 
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Posts: 69 since Oct 2012
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More thoughts on why this time is different

I may blow this great trading record all up after 4 weeks, like I have 3 times before with MES Capital, but I have some things going in my favor this time - and I am doing my best to succeed:

(1) I have never made it 4 weeks before, and I don't want to start over again and so am being more careful.

(2) I think I have FINALLY learned that this is not a race and I can really be patient and only take what I think are the BEST trades.

(3) By dropping to the $50k instead of $150k Evaluation, it made me focus more on my single contract trades, which I think helped me more than anything.

(4) I have been trading for 14 years and this is the best I have done for a whole month in terms of risk and reward, so I want to continue

(5) As far as patience goes, I am WAITING at market tops and bottoms more now. I used to blindly jump in short at "the top," but of course it was NOT the top! I wait now until I see evidence of weakness before shorting (for example).

(6) But most importantly, I am more relaxed as a trader now because I have a bigger buffer, now that I am over the $2,500 magical profit mark (on the $50k live account). The max loss is fixed now at $50k. This gives me more MENTAL space to maneuver around in.

I think the reason most evaluations and live accounts fail across all companies and platforms is because traders are trading too big. Until you get to the point of being able to take a loss and not break a sweat, you are handicapped and will mentally trade at a significant disadvantage. My advice to everyone here is simply to take it slow and evaluate your trades each day.

The market will teach you --- if you'll listen. If you will be humble, then it shouldn't take you 14 years like it has me, but maybe only 4, LOL.


Last edited by sstheo; April 14th, 2019 at 10:48 PM.
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  #36 (permalink)
New York City, USA
 
Trading Experience: None
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Wow at what age did you start trading?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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  #37 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
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CarpetHooligan View Post
Wow at what age did you start trading?

Haha, great question. I started trading at 40.

I still don't have any gray hair, but my shoulder hurts a bit and I now have to wear glasses. LOL.

Don't get me wrong, I have had some great sprints in stocks, options, forex, and now futures. But I have always given it all back plus more. I took one FX account from $100 to $4000 in a month one time, and I was in the top 50 on ZuluTrade for a bit. But my style was unsustainable in both cases.

I will do my best to make it to month 2 and break through this 4 week barrier.

Also, I have decided to test the MES funding machine, so I will make a request tomorrow to take out $1000. Let's make sure this is all real!!!

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  #38 (permalink)
Sarasota FL
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
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sstheo View Post

Also, I have decided to test the MES funding machine, so I will make a request tomorrow to take out $1000. Let's make sure this is all real!!!



This is the point, isn't it?

I'm sure it will be fine.

Good work, and I hope more is to come.

Bob.

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  #39 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Favorite Futures: NQ YM
 
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Posts: 69 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 51 given, 167 received

First real money withdrawal

I went ahead and made my first withdrawal today.
I sent the request in the morning, and it hit my bank the very same day.
See below.

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Looks like MES Capital and OneUp Trader are both legit.

Steve

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  #40 (permalink)
Detroit, MI/USA
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: S5 Trader, Tradovate
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that is what i was looking for an actual withdrawal thanks i think ill give them another shot.

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