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I've been following the various journals in here of people doing the gauntlet vs combine etc, and seeing their progress. Very inspiring work guys.
I'm quite interested in starting one myself, however I am having trouble deciding between which one is the most worthwhile. My concern is the drawdown limit rules, even a portfolio of robust walk-forward tested algorithms could still be timed poorly and hit the max DD, before reaching new equity peaks.
Who do you guys think offers the greatest flexibility or the most competent management? I'm sure some of these shops set applicants up for failure and make their money purely from application fees.
Thanks.
Can you help answer these questions from other members on NexusFi?
When Lemons says "max 15 days" he means minimum 15 days (Section 2: Follow the Rules https://www.oneuptrader.com ).
Unlike him I only have experience with TST. Their minimum is also 15 days. A minimum of 5 days for Step 1, 10 days for Step 2.
Regarding cost, TST $165, OneUp $150, both for the 50K 80/20 split (The 50K Combine is the most popular at TST). Not really much of a difference. As for the rest of the rules they are very similar to TST. When OneUp started as MES Capital in competition against TST, their tests were free. That didn't work out and they changed their name and restarted with new test rules essentially the same as TSTs. (
I agree with Lemons about the evaluation period rules. With TST the loss rules tighten as one goes through the three stages from Step 1 to Step 2 to funded. Depending on your trading style this can mean making adjustments at each stage reducing the chance for the trader to build up a confidence in their consistently applied methodology. However TST very clearly lays out all the rules and their customer support service have always been very helpful. The ideal way is to follow the Funded Trader rules as closely as possible while doing Step 1 and Step 2 so that is not a concern when starting funded.
Regarding Earn2Trade I have never tried them for two reasons:
1. Unlike TST or OneUp, you don't know what the funding/profit split offer will be until you have paid for and then successfully completed the test. I have read a few journals on here where people say they have passed the test but are doing it again because the offer they received was too low or not a good split and they were told that if they improved this or that aspect of their results they should receive a better offer.
2.They use full margin because they allow traders to hold positions overnight. This means the ability to scale up takes a lot longer. (Though scaling up can be a double edged sword if done too quickly). If however I was interested in swing trading and holding overnight then I would go with them.
Back to TST. For me the Combine costs a little more but during it you are entitled to a complimentary Performance coach session once a month. There are also free group session webinars. There are lots of videos, various news letters and an active Facebook group and Twitter and the Squawk Radio. I don't use the Facebook group but the rest is good added value that also to my mind boosts their credibility and reputation. In the same vein, I have watched videos of and know the names of their performance coaches, risk manager, firm CEO, and lastly their group founder Michael Patak.
They also adjust their rules and improve their product. I failed Step 2 at one point by adding an extra contract by mistake and exceeding the added scaling plan rule limit. I took it off after a couple of seconds to get back to two contracts, but received an email the next day saying a rule had been violated so the test was no longer valid. I had no complaint because I knew the rule and I broke it. I am guessing this caught a lot of people out because in Step 2 the scaling plan contract limits weren't hard coded in to the platform, only the max contract size was and couldn't be exceeded. Now the rule has changed ( https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000140787-What-is-the-scaling-plan- ) with the addition about 'fat finger' errors corrected within ten seconds will not be penalised.
I am clearly more in favour of TST, but then I would be because they were the company I chose to go with rather than the others. Just my 2 cents.
You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
"With TST the loss rules tighten ... " this is actually bad deal. Ok you start Step 1 also with Step 2 rules Daily loss limit = weekly loss limit. Monday normal losing day and you are almost done for a week and need to wait next week to continue.
I have experience with all 3 and my preference goes to Earn2Trade, let me explain why.
Earn2Trade is the more expensive one at $349, however at TST you have to pay for both stage 1 and stage 2.
It is possible to complete both in one month, but in my opinion not without taking to much risk versus the available draw down, with TST you need to hit the target twice, with a 50K account you have to make 6K within 1 month, with a 2K trailing draw down, to avoid double payment. It is possible, but risky, that is exactly what TST wants you to do, take the risk, fail and try again.
OneUp is different from TST, here you only have 1 stage and then a demo fase which will be the withdrawal threshold.
Once you reach the withdrawal threshold you go to a live account, however the biggest flaw with OneUp is that they have a trailing draw down based on open equity, for example if you open a trade which goes in to your favor for lets say $500 but because your target was not hit yet, you closed the trade break even. With OneUp this means you are DOWN $500 on your trailing draw down even tough you did not lose any money. This makes it very hard in my experience since a small period of draw down is inevitable over time.
So the biggest advantage of Earn2Trade is their fixed draw down limit, you only lose the Gauntlet if you go below $22500, there is never a daily loss limit, there is never a trailing draw down. With TST and OneUp you can scale up if you hit the maximum contracts allowed according to the plan you signed up for, however you have to retake a combine/evaluation account of a larger size to get to trade the larger size. Earn2Trade's prop firm Helios Trading Partners can go up to 1 million apparently, at least this is what they are saying.
Another advantage of Earn2Trade is that they recently started with a Gauntlet Guarantee program which gives you a refund of the Gauntlet (in the funded account with Helios), they require you to get at least 1:4 profit vs draw down, however for this offer they only calculate the draw down from the initial starting balance, not the highest equity you had during the Gauntlet.
I am currently doing a Gauntlet myself and very close to going through to the next stage, let it be clear that i am in absolutely no way connected or paid by Earn2Trade to say these things, i just think they are better then both OneUp and TST. They are less about the subscription fee hamster wheel and more about seriously finding good traders and fund them. At least, that is my opinion
You don't have to race to do it in one month. Say you took two months at $165 a month that is $330 so the same pretty much as Earn2Trade for most people. After two months I think almost everybody will either have reached their target if they are consistent or hit the max loss a long time ago whichever company they are with.
How is doing the test, then trading a demo account before going live, different to doing a TST Test 1 and Test 2 before going live?
I don't know about OneUp but that isn't correct for TST. ( https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/220389528-What-is-the-scaling-plan- )
Using the 50K example again one could be up to the full five lots after making $2K in profit. Once $5K is reached one can negotiate increasing size and adjusting the daily loss limit.
Regarding this sentence "The Scaling Plan rule will be evaluated each day when the Trade Report is calculated. You will need to email the Funded Account Specialist to be able to trade the next tier." That is simply so that the automatic risk system can be updated. When a trader starts live the account begins with the minimum number of contracts preset and remains on that figure until the trader asks for that figure to be raised to what ever the Scaling Plan allows them to trade. The system doesn't automatically raise their contract limit at each Scaling Plan threshold as some traders will want to stay at a lower level if that is what they are comfortable with, and still have the security of knowing the risk system will prevent them adding contracts beyond their chosen amount.
You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
yes min 15 days 