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Whilst I broadly agree with this, my feeling is that swing trading is different to day trading and the skill set required is different.
The markets are very fractal in nature. Technically, it's pretty much the same skill set.
For day trading i think you need great technical skills, stamina and the ability to sit in front of a computer for hours analysing lots of set ups etc.
Swing trading, on the other hand, is slower paced and you have more time to analyse set ups etc.
Because the markets are fractal in nature, it's going to require the same skills. You just get to apply them much more often in day trading because the time frame offers more opportunities.
For example, my system mostly involves playing retrace-continuation into significant market profile/volume profile levels. This occurs on every time frame.
What this means is that day trading is probably more profitable if you get it right as you are trading much more often?
If following prudent risk management, day trading is probably more profitable. Because you are getting more opportunities to make money given the same level of risk.
My inclination is not to day trade so I think that I'm better off putting my energy into mastering swing trading. However, I appreciate your point that you will get much more practice if you swing trade.
You advise picking a time-frame where you can get lots and lots of practice. If I was to swing trade would you recommend the daily poor weekly time frames?
Whether you swing trade or day trade, it's going to probably take a couple thousand to several thousand trades to become proficient. A couple of thousand trades happens a lot faster day trading than swing trading. The skill set is basically the same because of the fractal nature of the market.
I believe that can be reduced to 2,000 - 3,000 hours with exclusive one-on-one mentoring. Unless you're born into a trading family, that kind of accelerated learning probably isn't going to possible.
I think proficiency (getting profitable) is like the prop-shops say - 2,000 to 3,000 trades. This is not mastery. This is just getting to a basic level of proficiency.
Here are my two SIM trades taken while catching up on posts on Fio. I have made no other trades today. +$995 trading (3) contracts each of FESX and NQ. (2) trades, about 90-minutes of exposure.
After 1,600 - 1,800 SIM trades, I can consistently do this SIM (and have been doing it for the last 150+ trading days). I try this on Top Step Trader (sort-of LIVE trading) and I can barely break-even. The psychological barrier is immense. But I've only been doing TST for two weeks. I've got the pre-requisite condition already solved - I have a working system/edge tested real-time (not back-test) over a statistically significant number of trials. Now, maybe a couple to several more months of getting my emotional state under control. In the end, I think it's going to take me 2,000 - 3,000 trades... Just like the prop shops say.
If you can't trade profitably on SIM, you won't be able to trade profitably LIVE. Save yourself a lot of money by trading SIM until you're proficient.
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FESX, gap up open. Trading in the direction of the trend, retrace-continuation, HVE to HVE.
NQ. A much sloppier trade, took 6-points of heat, but the same basic idea as the FESX trade.
You can find brokers who will let you do NQ on $500 day margin per contract, FESX requires about $1200 day margin. I would use overnight margin. NQ at $7000 and FESX at $2200.
I have been trading Nq seriously for almost two years after having mainly traded CL before that. It has been sort of a love/hate relationship, but things have definitely improved in the last few months. Here a few points and observations that I have gathered …
The Op trades mostly NQ now even though the thread says crude oil trading system.
He has many videos and stories about his journey.
Rejoice in the Thunderstorms of Life . . .
Knowing it's not about Clouds or Wind. . .
But Learning to Dance in the Rain ! ! !
[QUOTE=Binkius;699513]Gladwell says 10,000 hours for mastery.
That's roughly 5 years of 8-hour work days.
I believe that can be reduced to 2,000 - 3,000 hours with exclusive one-on-one mentoring. Unless you're born into a trading family, that kind of accelerated learning probably isn't going to possible.
I think proficiency (getting profitable) is like the prop-shops say - 2,000 to 3,000 trades. This is not mastery. This is just getting to a basic level of proficiency.
Here are my two SIM trades taken while catching up on posts on Fio. I have made no other trades today. +$995 trading (3) contracts each of FESX and NQ. (2) trades, about 90-minutes of exposure.
After 1,600 - 1,800 SIM trades, I can consistently do this SIM (and have been doing it for the last 150+ trading days). I try this on Top Step Trader (sort-of LIVE trading) and I can barely break-even. The psychological barrier is immense. But I've only been doing TST for two weeks. I've got the pre-requisite condition already solved - I have a working system/edge tested real-time (not back-test) over a statistically significant number of trials. Now, maybe a couple to several more months of getting my emotional state under control. In the end, I think it's going to take me 2,000 - 3,000 trades... Just like the prop shops say.
If you can't trade profitably on SIM, you won't be able to trade profitably LIVE. Save yourself a lot of money by trading SIM until you're proficient.
---
FESX, gap up open. Trading in the direction of the trend, retrace-continuation, HVE to HVE.
NQ. A much sloppier trade, took 6-points of heat, but the same basic idea as the FESX trade.
You can find brokers who will let you do NQ on $500 day margin per contract, FESX requires about $1200 day margin. I would use overnight margin. NQ at $7000 and FESX at $2200.[/QUOTE @Binkius thanks very much for the reality check. I was falling into the newbie trap of thinking that I could start trading and, within weeks, be profitable. Yet all common sense indicates that there is a steep learning curve (as you have pointed out very clearly in your excellent post).
You are absolutely right. To become good at trading one needs to put the hours in and actually do some WORK.
That four letter word is what I think many of us new to the game do not want to hear.
I am going to follow your advise and trade sim only until l can prove to myself that l can be consistently profitable. Even then, that does not guarantee success in a live environment where emotion will play a big part.
