Zen & the Art of The Small Account - Trading Journals | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Zen & the Art of The Small Account
Updated: Views / Replies:124,770 / 994
Created: by PandaWarrior Attachments:228

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Closed Thread
 228  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Zen & the Art of The Small Account

  #411 (permalink)
Membership Permanently Revoked
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 221 given, 844 received


aztrader9 View Post
Bad news out of the gate. A BEAUTIFUL short set up right after the opening today. I was slightly late due to fixing a cup of tea for my house guest and so took a re-entry. I entered a sell stop, was filled and realized I could move my stop much closer. I moved it but noticed something wrong. I had entered a BUY limit instead and of course the perfect short ended up being a stop out. Why did it stop, because I was moving the profit target down instead of the stop and did not notice until too late my "profit target" which was really a stop was about to be hit. By the time I noticed, it was stopped out.

I then pulled the old trick of getting down on myself......FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF is what I wanted to say. I then had 7 more losers in a row. I should not have traded in that frame of mind. I was disgusted with myself for making a stupid mistake.

I stopped when I had given back yesterday's gains. 62 ticks gone due to stupidity. A bit later after I had gotten control of my self, I stepped back in cautiously and was able to gain back all but 13 ticks. Still finished down but was able to dig back out of the hole for the most part.

Onward and upward....

Cheers

so since I went back to reading the whole thread from start... you should be proud to have come this far ..

https://futures.io/journals-daily-charts-chart-reading/4211-zen-art-small-account-9.html#post51057

The following user says Thank You to sysot1t for this post:
 
  #412 (permalink)
Elite Member
In the heat
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: Energy
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,155 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,306 given, 13,250 received

I have a headache

I missed the big sell off right at the beginning of the day. Got to the computer right at 6AM instead of the normal 5:45. I had one opportunity to participate and passed on it. I also forgot to roll over the contract today until about an hour into the session.

Then what seemed like hours of pure torture. I was up then down. Could not get a feel for it. Finally quit at -62 ticks. Took a break for 30 minutes. Came back and with great caution, managed to claw back to only -11.

Then some even tighter chop and finished the day down -45.

I traded much longer than normal today due to the lack of perceived opportunities. Of course it was simply perception as there were in fact opportunities but they came disguised as head fakes and one pip failures today.

So on a day when CL moved 200 cents from the moment I sat down, I managed to lose $450.00. Honestly, its days like today that really bother me as a trader. I know I am better than this. But there seems to be a threshold I can't seem to break through.

I really am sick of it to tell you the truth. I beat my head against the wall in a very similar fashion about 10 years ago wondering why I could not break the $100,000 income barrier in the mortgage business and it took me three years of earning almost that much to do it. Once I did though, the income shot up like a rocket. Am I in the same spot now as I was then? I don't know. But it sure feels like it. Those weeks leading up to the end of the year knowing I was not going to quite make it were awful weeks. They felt like today, knowing I had to be almost perfect to dig out of the hole. The years where I made the 100K in the first quarter, those years felt like I was not working, just grooving with my system. The money just flowed like water. Today I worked. No grooving at all.

So tomorrow, back to basics. Looking for the groove.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
The following 5 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
  #413 (permalink)
Elite Member
Nashville, Tennessee
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja / Jigsaw / 9G
Broker/Data: AMP / CQG
Favorite Futures: NQ, YM and ES
 
tderrick's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,589 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 4,260 given, 2,527 received



aztrader9 View Post

So on a day when CL moved 200 cents from the moment I sat down, I managed to lose $450.00. Honestly, its days like today that really bother me as a trader. I know I am better than this. But there seems to be a threshold I can't seem to break through.

I really am sick of it to tell you the truth.

So tomorrow, back to basics. Looking for the groove.


No worries, my brother... This to, will pass.


AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


"Life On The Edge of SR"
The following 2 users say Thank You to tderrick for this post:
 
  #414 (permalink)
Elite Member
Kent, England
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra
Broker/Data: Infinity
Favorite Futures: Oil
 
Mickey Caine's Avatar
 
Posts: 196 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 1,607 given, 347 received

You and me both AZ. Not that it will make you feel any better, but I too finished the day 45 ticks down on CL. I will post where I went wrong in my journal. Just wanted to stop by and offer my condolences. I feel the pain too.

Attached Thumbnails
Zen & the Art of The Small Account-nevergiveup.jpg  
The following 2 users say Thank You to Mickey Caine for this post:
 
  #415 (permalink)
Membership Permanently Revoked
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 221 given, 844 received

I am reading First Month of Training as we speak.. and I read your comments ... I figure I share something that I find interesting that I think will help you.. I know it is helping me at the moment, along with various futures.io (formerly BMT) based content ... anyhow.. from the site, two quotes..

"we lay out suggestions as to how structure your daily routine. Ultimately, how you structure your day individually is up to you, but you must learn how to schedule time for your record keeping and preparation time necessary for each day’s markets. There should be no discussion with yourself when it comes to doing your necessary preparation for the markets each morning or night and you will see the value when you find that it helps you start the trading day feeling totally prepared and in control, ready to go"

"a crucial component of the trading diary should be the honest recording of a trader’s emotional state before, during and after the trading day. There is a very strong correlation between the state of mind of the individual trader and his profit & loss. This correlation should be noted and its effects pre-empted by recording the emotional state at regular intervals in the trading diary and addressing negative emotions swiftly. By ensuring traders complete a trading diary effectively you can learn to take control of your trading behaviour. By having the discipline and honesty to complete an objective trading diary, traders take a big step towards conquering themselves – the biggest challenge for any aspiring, professional trader."

needless to say... your daily routine was broken.. and once you saw the opportunity pass you by, you were probably a bit upset about it... I know both things happen to me, so I figure I share... I personally have to be more disciplined and less emotional when trading.


aztrader9 View Post
I missed the big sell off right at the beginning of the day. Got to the computer right at 6AM instead of the normal 5:45. I had one opportunity to participate and passed on it. I also forgot to roll over the contract today until about an hour into the session.

Then what seemed like hours of pure torture. I was up then down. Could not get a feel for it. Finally quit at -62 ticks. Took a break for 30 minutes. Came back and with great caution, managed to claw back to only -11.

Then some even tighter chop and finished the day down -45.

I traded much longer than normal today due to the lack of perceived opportunities. Of course it was simply perception as there were in fact opportunities but they came disguised as head fakes and one pip failures today.

So on a day when CL moved 200 cents from the moment I sat down, I managed to lose $450.00. Honestly, its days like today that really bother me as a trader. I know I am better than this. But there seems to be a threshold I can't seem to break through.

I really am sick of it to tell you the truth. I beat my head against the wall in a very similar fashion about 10 years ago wondering why I could not break the $100,000 income barrier in the mortgage business and it took me three years of earning almost that much to do it. Once I did though, the income shot up like a rocket. Am I in the same spot now as I was then? I don't know. But it sure feels like it. Those weeks leading up to the end of the year knowing I was not going to quite make it were awful weeks. They felt like today, knowing I had to be almost perfect to dig out of the hole. The years where I made the 100K in the first quarter, those years felt like I was not working, just grooving with my system. The money just flowed like water. Today I worked. No grooving at all.

So tomorrow, back to basics. Looking for the groove.


The following 4 users say Thank You to sysot1t for this post:
 
  #416 (permalink)
Elite Member
Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation
Broker/Data: Tradestation
Favorite Futures: CL, RB, HO, YG, YI, EMD, US
 
chipotlebop's Avatar
 
Posts: 252 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 369 given, 331 received


aztrader9 View Post
So tomorrow, back to basics. Looking for the groove.

Don't give up. Mental fitness is the hardest part of trading.

Making NO errors is what establishes the certainty of victory...
The following 2 users say Thank You to chipotlebop for this post:
 
  #417 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,351 given, 83,221 received

Az,

Very early on I was already skyping to a trading buddy that CL was just in a 50 tick chop and not to trade. Then an hour before close was my only trade for the day for 100 ticks.

Didn't it seem like CL was in a chop zone to you? My chart seems to show we gapped down, then held at support around 81.50. I made comments early on in skype to my trading buddy that it seems like some accumulation was going on as volume was high and range was small, and we'd see a big move after we get through this. At 60 minutes prior to close I made the decision to enter short at 81.15 after I felt the support was now broken. My target was based on daily and weekly support levels that were below the prior support that was just broken. My ultimate target was not hit before the pit closed (was targeting 150 ticks, it moved only 100).

Anyway, I post only to demonstrate how patience was rewarding on a day like today. I admire you posting to your journal on a bad day, its tough to do but will help you ultimately to overcome this behavior.

Early on I saw chop so did not trade, and then just waited for the right opportunity which came at the end of the day. You did not mention how many trades you made today. If it was only two or three and you ended with -60 ticks, then I don't think it's the end of the world. Sometimes it takes one, maybe two at most trades before you realize you are in chop. Other days you can see it before taking any signals and just wait it out. However, if you took a dozen or more trades on a day that was very choppy, and those trades were unprofitable (you were not setup for a choppy day) then I think you need to ask yourself why you didn't see it was range bound earlier than you did...

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

The following 8 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #418 (permalink)
Elite Member
In the heat
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: Energy
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,155 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,306 given, 13,250 received

Bonce back day

After yesterday, was wondering if I was cut out to be a trader. (come on, admit it, you've thought it too, no judging here, honesty is the watch word right?) But my friend talked me off the cliff and today I made my profit target. It did take to many trades. At this point though, I don't care how many trades it takes, as long as I am within my daily stop limit, I'll take 100 trades if I think I see a legit one set up.

Something I learned today; Trust the system. It almost never lies. What lies is my judgment and coupled with impatience, that can be bad. Today I resolved to be patient and for the most part I was. There were only a couple of trades I took where I can say I was trigger happy. (Remember a few months ago I had the opposite problem!)

I did miss my two favorite set ups today. One twice actually. Shorts off the 75% fib failure. They were perfect and I never saw them until after the trading day was over! Had I caught them, would have been an even better day.

So after two really bad trading days this month, I am flat in the account from the beginning of the month. Not a great record but proof that if you keep your losses smaller than your winners and have more winners you can be profitable. The two big losing days were daily stop limit violations. After talking with my friend yesterday, I realized I'd done it twice this month without really knowing I was doing it. I keep the P&L hidden most of the time and so those days slipped by me without notice. I am thinking of putting the P&L on the chart where I can see it all the time. Ideas on this?

Cheers....

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
The following 4 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
  #419 (permalink)
Elite Member
Lubbock TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Stage 5 Trading
Favorite Futures: CL
 
MWinfrey's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,879 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 1,449 given, 3,306 received

I like seeing the PNL but have a problem letting it influence the way I trade. In other words, later in the morning when I have positive PNL I become hesitant to pull the trigger. I'm working on that and trying to view the PNL objectively and trust my plan.

Mike Winfrey


aztrader9 View Post
After yesterday, was wondering if I was cut out to be a trader. (come on, admit it, you've thought it too, no judging here, honesty is the watch word right?) But my friend talked me off the cliff and today I made my profit target. It did take to many trades. At this point though, I don't care how many trades it takes, as long as I am within my daily stop limit, I'll take 100 trades if I think I see a legit one set up.

Something I learned today; Trust the system. It almost never lies. What lies is my judgment and coupled with impatience, that can be bad. Today I resolved to be patient and for the most part I was. There were only a couple of trades I took where I can say I was trigger happy. (Remember a few months ago I had the opposite problem!)

I did miss my two favorite set ups today. One twice actually. Shorts off the 75% fib failure. They were perfect and I never saw them until after the trading day was over! Had I caught them, would have been an even better day.

So after two really bad trading days this month, I am flat in the account from the beginning of the month. Not a great record but proof that if you keep your losses smaller than your winners and have more winners you can be profitable. The two big losing days were daily stop limit violations. After talking with my friend yesterday, I realized I'd done it twice this month without really knowing I was doing it. I keep the P&L hidden most of the time and so those days slipped by me without notice. I am thinking of putting the P&L on the chart where I can see it all the time. Ideas on this?

Cheers....


The following 5 users say Thank You to MWinfrey for this post:
 
  #420 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,351 given, 83,221 received



aztrader9 View Post
I keep the P&L hidden most of the time and so those days slipped by me without notice. I am thinking of putting the P&L on the chart where I can see it all the time. Ideas on this?

Cheers....

I would advise against it. I hide mine entirely. I want each trade to stand on its own merits and not be influenced by the rest of the day. But, I am human. I do check my pnl tab throughout the day. Most of the time it is just to confirm execution prices, as I know where I am at on the day because it is easy to remember the figures as you are trading... unless you are taking a bunch of trades.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

The following 4 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:

Closed Thread



futures io > > > Zen & the Art of The Small Account

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
paper account real account interactive brokers Mehdi IB Trader Workstation 15 January 6th, 2012 12:16 PM
Big time frames with small account Morainer Psychology and Money Management 10 June 24th, 2011 04:16 PM
Growing A Small account - Have to start somewhere cgleckman Trading Journals 26 April 4th, 2011 01:46 PM
My account got messed up & lost 2K cause I did not wait on a support call thinkfuture Traders Hideout 8 November 3rd, 2010 01:25 PM
Best Data Provider to compliment Zen-Fire for Mkt Internals & EOD Data? waverider Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 17 October 14th, 2010 11:33 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:40 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-13 in 0.18 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.82.79.109