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Zen & the Art of The Small Account


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Zen & the Art of The Small Account

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  #11 (permalink)
 MetalTrade 
 
 
Posts: 1,081 since May 2010

Thanks for this thread, looking forward reading it.

I'm a strong believer nobody should be in this game without at least $30.000 but you might prove the contrary.


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  #12 (permalink)
 LukeGeniol 
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aztrader9 View Post
Here goes....

..............................................................................
Fast forward 16 months to today. I am finally beginning to show some consistency on sim. I decided to trade my small sim account as though it were my actual account for a month. In other words, if I could develop an edge in sim, I can do it with real money!
.....................................................

I'm not agree with this statement cos real trade is really different from sim trade, I know many people that make this error, thinking that they can make money cos they do in sim, initially me too.........
In real trading all change, there are different emotion that came into play, and you can lose your focusing, take bad decision etc.....
Most of the traders I hear lost their money when go live, I also had blown up my account 2 times before became profitable.
So I think u have to take into consideration also the possibility to fail when u go live for the first time.
So starting with a little account is a good idea, but i must trade accordingly to keep your risk low and this is not simple in the futures market cos there are only standard lot. An opttion could be starting trade the spot market with micro and mini lot.

Good luck.

Luke.

Take your Pips, go out and Live.
Luke.
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  #13 (permalink)
 jungian 
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LukeGeniol View Post
So starting with a little account is a good idea, but i must trade accordingly to keep your risk low and this is not simple in the futures market cos there are only standard lot. An opttion could be starting trade the spot market with micro and mini lot.

Good luck.

Luke.

I agree with Luke. Micro FX account would be best for an account of your size.

I started with a micro FX account with $500 and doubled it in about 3 weeks. But I quickly lost it all by trading WAY too many lots. Starting with 1 lot and worked my way up to 2 or 5 or 10 if I saw the right setup.

But your stops must be in proportion to your account size/strategy win and loss ratio.

Also, the emotional/psychological component is what is the hardest to overcome.

Personally I found myself looking at targets 10-15 even 20 pips away but would take profits early (same old broken record trader's story of letting losers run and winners being cut short)....

Good luck !

Jungian

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  #14 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
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MetalTrade View Post
Thanks for this thread, looking forward reading it.

I'm a strong believer nobody should be in this game without at least $30.000 but you might prove the contrary.


i agree but don't have that so here we go....I believe with discipline and focus, it can be done. Tough but doable.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Started this thread
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  #15 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
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LukeGeniol View Post
I'm not agree with this statement cos real trade is really different from sim trade, I know many people that make this error, thinking that they can make money cos they do in sim, initially me too.........
In real trading all change, there are different emotion that came into play, and you can lose your focusing, take bad decision etc.....
Most of the traders I hear lost their money when go live, I also had blown up my account 2 times before became profitable.
So I think u have to take into consideration also the possibility to fail when u go live for the first time.
So starting with a little account is a good idea, but i must trade accordingly to keep your risk low and this is not simple in the futures market cos there are only standard lot. An opttion could be starting trade the spot market with micro and mini lot.

Good luck.

Luke.

Hi Luke, thanks for the input. You are so right, real money is VERY different from sim money. But I also know if you cannot be honest and disciplined in sim, forget about real. I know, I've been irresponsible in sim which meant my real account paid for it. Sim is where you develop your edge and confidence so when you trade live, some but not all your fears are somewhat mitigated by the confidence you have in your sim success. Thats all I am saying.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Started this thread
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  #16 (permalink)
 timmyb 
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HI aztrader,

I want to thank you for doing this. I thought of myself allot while I read your post. I lost my business etc during all this termioil also and claimed Bankruptcy. This was about 2 years ago now. I am also attempting to trade for a living. Doing ok for the first 4 months and still struggling daily with things. But becoming better at understanding its a business and trying to get rid of the need to be right mindset. I was fortunate once to start an account years ago with 30k and sad to say it got blown. But I have also been able to start with 1-3k and get to 30k. In which I typically screwed up. What I found is I actually trade better with little money. So 4 months ago that is how I started. I put 2k in my futures account and got it to 15k in 1.5 months. Thank god I pulled money out weekly. Cause eventually i was trading with about 7k and blew it in one day of rediculous trading about a month ago. I then decided to take a break from futures and go back to options. So i took 3k and pulled 14k out of my account. Then last week i had about 4k left and the account and got killed on Puts i should have sold for profit numerous times. But all in all even with losses pulled out just over 20k in trading in the last 2 months all with a 2500 starting capital. I so look forward to this thread. I hope to learn from you. I myself nwo am restarting futures Monday with 1k to 2k. And hope I ahve learned enough to keep things in check this time.

thanks again

Tim

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  #17 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
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timmyb View Post
HI aztrader,

I want to thank you for doing this. I thought of myself allot while I read your post. I lost my business etc during all this termioil also and claimed Bankruptcy. This was about 2 years ago now. I am also attempting to trade for a living. Doing ok for the first 4 months and still struggling daily with things. But becoming better at understanding its a business and trying to get rid of the need to be right mindset. I was fortunate once to start an account years ago with 30k and sad to say it got blown. But I have also been able to start with 1-3k and get to 30k. In which I typically screwed up. What I found is I actually trade better with little money. So 4 months ago that is how I started. I put 2k in my futures account and got it to 15k in 1.5 months. Thank god I pulled money out weekly. Cause eventually i was trading with about 7k and blew it in one day of rediculous trading about a month ago. I then decided to take a break from futures and go back to options. So i took 3k and pulled 14k out of my account. Then last week i had about 4k left and the account and got killed on Puts i should have sold for profit numerous times. But all in all even with losses pulled out just over 20k in trading in the last 2 months all with a 2500 starting capital. I so look forward to this thread. I hope to learn from you. I myself nwo am restarting futures Monday with 1k to 2k. And hope I ahve learned enough to keep things in check this time.

thanks again

Tim

Tim, thanks so much for your honesty and transparency. Its only through honesty with ourselves and those around us will we master our selves.

This is what I want to hear....people that have done it and struggled to keep it going. I think keeping it going is a result of a lack of long term discipline. It goes good for a while and we quit doing what got us there.

Its classic. We've all made this mistake. Hopefully by participating in this thread, we can all keep each other honest....

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Started this thread
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  #18 (permalink)
 jgreene 
Palm City, Fl
 
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Thanks for your effort. I am sure this thread will benefit many if kept very active.

Blew a lot of money trying to trade the Q's with Darlene Nelson course. Did not know what I was doing and kept throwing good money after bad.

I now trade a system I have found and still fine tuning. Will keep you up to date.

Thanks,

Jack

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  #19 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
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jgreene View Post
Thanks for your effort. I am sure this thread will benefit many if kept very active.

Blew a lot of money trying to trade the Q's with Darlene Nelson course. Did not know what I was doing and kept throwing good money after bad.

I now trade a system I have found and still fine tuning. Will keep you up to date.

Thanks,

Jack

Jack, your input is appreciated. Please be a contributor as well as a reader. It will help you and all of us who read the thread.

I hope the thread is beneficial to you.....if it is, please let us know....also if you the thread to address a particular issue, please let us know...

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Started this thread
 
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  #20 (permalink)
 aslan 
Madison, WI
 
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aztrader9 View Post
You are so right, real money is VERY different from sim money. But I also know if you cannot be honest and disciplined in sim, forget about real.

You hit the nail on the head. Sim is only as real as you make it. You have to trade in sim like that is real money, not just reset after a week because you made some dumb mistakes that you know you would not have made normally. Most people think they have sim down and are ready, but most people are wrong because it was not done as if real. Did they have a plan or were they just pushing buttons? Did they do daily trade logging or just look at the PnL? Lots of ways to fool yourself, I know I have been there.

One of the key uses of sim, is using it to make sure you have the mechanics down, so you can execute a trade in your sleep, without trying to remember how to enter a stop order etc. This is necessary for anyone starting out, especially with a small account.

Another item with sim, be sure you set your account balance small. If you are using a $100K sim account, you are hurting yourself if you plan to trade $5-10K.

No matter how good you do your sim, the feelings WILL be different when you go to real money. You have to accept this, monitor it, and adjust.

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