Zen & the Art of The Small Account - Trading Journals | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Zen & the Art of The Small Account
Updated: Views / Replies:124,870 / 994
Created: by PandaWarrior Attachments:228

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Closed Thread
 228  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Zen & the Art of The Small Account

  #161 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,353 given, 83,234 received


Michael.H View Post
Az trader, would you be willing to share your Excel spreadsheet for recording trades. Yours looks much cleaner :-)

I think he already did?

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

The following 3 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #162 (permalink)
Elite Member
In the heat
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: Energy
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,155 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,306 given, 13,250 received

2nd Day Live

I have taken more live trades in the last two days than almost all the previous 7 months!. First things first here. I am proud of that fact. I used to have severe trigger pulling issues. I still do, but they are much less now.

The chart says it all. The early morning appeared to be all chop. I was nervous about that and let the first couple three go by, did not believe my eyes. But still, my method gave nice clear signals even if I did not believe them.

First trade was into a transition zone but I felt there was enough room to get ten ticks. There was and I punched out early, I was late on entry so I was a little nervous. Same thing on the next three trades.

Then some chop. I waited and waited, the break came and left me behind. I waited again. More chop, got a decent entry, out to early.

Then I have a blank space in my memory about the 3 small losses. One of them was a long entry, stop placed properly, but it was moving so slow and when I took some heat, I got impatient, punched out only to see it go up enough to at least make me some profit.

Last two trades were just to get me back break even. I was up $151 and then down $31. I refused to end the day down. Last night my trading partner and I, (he trades the same system as I do, we developed in tandem) discussed the three loss rule. We decided if the losses were small, we can continue to trade past three losses in a row provided we have a valid set up. So I did today and managed to make $25 today.

All this is silly I know, trading where hundreds of dollars are available even with one contract and happy about $25. Its not the $25 I am happy about, its the waiting and waiting until I had a valid set up to enter. I am not happy about my failure to hold trades to completion. The last trade paid 10 ticks from my entry as did all the early ones.

On this trade though, I was early and took 7 ticks of heat, have to say, since it was moving so slow, this was one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life. Holding through the heat, enduring the slowness of it, then see it go green, just wanting out with anything positive, then seeing it go almost all the way to target, pull back a bit, it was to much, I bailed with 6 ticks. 3 seconds later, bam, full target hit. Oh well, I did the hard part, which was sit through the heat. Why did I do this, because the trade was a valid entry, the stop was valid, and I bailed to early before. So I held. Should have held longer, but I am proud of holding it as long as I did.

But in keeping with my first week agenda which is to take live trades every day, not lose to much money and just get settled in trading live money, I am ok with where I am now. Would prefer to be up several hundred dollars but it is what it is. I am up $888 in my sim account though. Took some of those trades I missed early.....silly huh?

Should just shut down the sim account from now on. Its an easy escape from doing what needs to be done.

Some lessons and then the benchmarks.

Lesson 1. Never trade after 9AM PST. Its tiring and and its slow.
2. Take the DAMN trades, the edge works.
3. Hold the trade all the way to target or until price tells me to get out. Forget about the whats in between....its just noise.
4. Did I mention take the DAMN trade? I meant it. Sorry for the french. I'm not mad at myself, not even frustrated, just motivated to do better each day.

Benchmark: These are entries that set up and taken with my one contract and ten tick target, what they would have produced:

7 Trades: $700, no losses. Nuff said.
Actual: 3 ticks, $25 dollars. Nuff said.

Cash is different. But its not that different. Prices still move the way I expect them to, my method still works, whats different is the emotion. So very different. What @Gary said the other day about KNOWING your edge works is the only thing that can take the edge off the emotional roller coaster. Even though I had trouble holding today, I only had the jackhammer heart once. That's progress for me.

I'm gratified my entries work, and I'm gratified I took for the most part, valid entries, just did not hold long enough.

Day two ends well.

Charts a little messy, my writing is disjointed but I am tired now....hardest day of work in a long time!

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Attached Thumbnails
Zen & the Art of The Small Account-03-august-2010-nt-summary.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-03-august-2010-nt-trades.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-03-august-2010-tf-chart.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-03-august-excel.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-03-august-msa.jpg  
The following 4 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
  #163 (permalink)
Elite Member
In the heat
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: Energy
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,155 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,306 given, 13,250 received


Just bought three books:

Stress Free Trading
The Daily Trading Coach
The New Market Wizards.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
The following 2 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
  #164 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,353 given, 83,234 received


aztrader9 View Post
Just bought three books:

Stress Free Trading
The Daily Trading Coach
The New Market Wizards.

Haven't read the first one, but the last two are positively fantastic.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

The following user says Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #165 (permalink)
Elite Member
Houston, Tx
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT / NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Esignal / Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: CL
 
trippenlatin's Avatar
 
Posts: 185 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 144 given, 314 received

good job in digging out of the hole. I agree with you on that no stop trading rule. Today I did the same thing. I ditched the rule and traded to make money. If the edge is on your side, then you will make more than you lose so why close down when after hitting a losing streak, cause if you do you just lost your ability to catch your winning streak.

The following user says Thank You to trippenlatin for this post:
 
  #166 (permalink)
Just starting out...
Upstate, NY
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: TraderPro
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 3 since May 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received

Mike,

I agree with you 100%. My leverage is 3500/1 and I add one car to every $3500 increase in my equity curve. A sure way to blow an account is to be over leveraged.

Cheers
itrade

The following user says Thank You to itrade4income for this post:
 
  #167 (permalink)
Elite Member
In the heat
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: Energy
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,155 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,306 given, 13,250 received

Day 3 Live

The word for the day is "HOLD THE TRADE".

8 trades
Net $142.

Was down $132 after three trades, then 5 winners in a row.

About the two losing trades, neither of them fit the rules. They were break out trades: I HATE break out trades. Sorry to all you break out traders. I have a phobia about them. What it that phobia? It seems all break out trades take lots of heat. Right now, I can't handle the heat, so I can't cook in that kitchen.

I saw two break out trades work, took the 3rd one, but the stop was soooooooooo far away, could not handle it. Same on the next one. Stupid Stupid Stupid.

Actually, I think I was really nervous. Before I even turned on the monitor this morning, my heart was pounding and my hands were shaking. Under previous circumstances, I would just trade sim and wimp out. Not today. I know I have an edge, so I can trade it even if nervous. Also, my trading buddy was late this AM and he brings a sense of calm. I had three trades done before he got there.

Anyway, settled down, committed to only taking the right trades, and for the most part I did. Was late on almost all of them but still managed to make money. I felt in control of my emotions after the first three trades, the heart pounding went away, I was focused and business like. Just what is needed for successful trading.

Held two of the 5 winners to target of 10 ticks, held one to 5 ticks, market said it was going the other way and I punched out with two ticks and prices went against my entry enough to have stopped me out. Good trade management.

The other two winners could have and should have been held to full target. I just got nervous.

Still, today was better than yesterday in terms of entries and holding to target.

The entries could still be MUCH better. But I will continue to work on them until I can take them without hesitation.

At $142 in profit, I decided to close the live account down and trade sim for a bit. At that point, I had been trading sim alongside the live account testing a theory of mine but not really paying attention to it. The sim account was down $396. I managed to rescue the sim account as well and pull $117 net profit off. Could have been more but I was greedy and held a trade to long and got much less than I should have. I knew the price level would give it trouble but held anyway. Good example of taking profit where the market tells you to.

A few minutes past my trading cut off, a nice short started setting up. Remembering yesterdays marathon, I decided against any kind of trading at that point and let it go. Of course it was a big winner but so what. I'm not tired or worn out now and that is more important.

Benchmark for rule based entries: 6 trades: $600. More actually but I am using a ten tick target and so I limit the benchmark to ten ticks of profit per trade. In fact, on a couple of them today, there were 20-30 ticks of profit.

Actual: 8 trades: $142

Performance today:

B for trade management.
D for entry execution
C for holding trade to completion
A for making money anyway!
D for benchmark to actual

Another good day and I am above my starting point for the week. If I can end the week up slightly or only down a tiny bit, it will have been a very successful week.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Attached Thumbnails
Zen & the Art of The Small Account-04-august-excel.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-04-august-msa.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-04-august-nt-summary.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-04-august-nt-trade-list.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-04-august-tf-chart.jpg  
The following 4 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
  #168 (permalink)
Elite Member
Houston, Tx
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT / NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Esignal / Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: CL
 
trippenlatin's Avatar
 
Posts: 185 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 144 given, 314 received

awesome job, keep up the good work, going green in cash is tough, way to keep your wits about you and keep on

The following user says Thank You to trippenlatin for this post:
 
  #169 (permalink)
Elite Member
In the heat
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: Energy
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,155 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,306 given, 13,250 received

Finally Profitable on the week!

Today was a tough day for me. The big move had already happened when I got in front of the machine. So it was mostly just waiting for a bit. There was a lower probability re-entry signal but I did not take it.

Took a real signal to short, prices reversed and I exited right away for a small loss. Then a small winner, two small losses then two small winners.

All three of the winners SHOULD have been held for the full ten tick profit. Once again, I played the part of the chicken. But my entries were better today. I am doing better at the entry execution, still a bit late on some but better.

Most importantly, I exited two trades instantly when prices told me to. That is a big plus. Otherwise I would be red on the day instead of green.

Tomorrow's goal is to hold at least one trade all the way to target. If I get that on the first trade, I will be done for the day and week, having managed to make a profit however small in my first week of live trading. This will have been a major accomplishment for me.

Next week, same goal, hold good trades to target and work on executing entries faster when prices tell me to.

Next week, my weekly goal is $500 or 10 ticks net per day. If I get that done, I might go buy a starbucks and celebrate!

Benchmark: 6 entries, (1 failed) 5 HPE (High Probability Entries) that paid at least 10 ticks. So $500 less what ever was lost from the failed entry. I did take that entry late, got out with one tick loss. Had I been on time with the entry, I may have gotten out with a small profit.

Actual: 6 Trades: Net of $86 on the day.

Grades:

Entry execution: C
Holding trades: D
Trade management: D because of the holding issue, getting out when price said to: A
Being profitable for the day: D in comparison to benchmark.

Goals on the week: B+, could change tomorrow if I have red day.

The mental stuff was slightly easier today, almost no jackhammer heart, almost no hand shaking while clicking the button, etc. If the rest of my career was exactly like today in terms of the mental and emotional side, I would be happy.

One bright spot, last trade of the morning, waited for prices to confirm the short, drew a fib on a larger range chart to get a possible target, discovered it was WAY down there and entered the trade, prices went in my direction nicely and then proceeded to make its way all the way to my target and then some. But I had a problem with NT and that was the reason I bailed. My ATM had a BE+9 on it and when it fired, I got some kind of warning from my broker about an invalid order. Not knowing what that was, I freaked out a bit and bailed fast. But I had my target all the way down at the location the fib said it should be. So I got the call right,just had an equipment or technology malfunction. Have the broker looking at it now.

Have a great day....

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Attached Thumbnails
Zen & the Art of The Small Account-05-august-chart.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-05-august-excel.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-05-august-msa.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-05-august-nt-trades.jpg   Zen & the Art of The Small Account-05-nt-summary.jpg  
The following 2 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
  #170 (permalink)
Elite Member
maui
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT, TWS
Broker/Data: IB.AMP.CQG.DTN
Favorite Futures: Currency, Futures, Options
 
peterg's Avatar
 
Posts: 119 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 28 given, 175 received


Ever consider a ATR Volatility Stop for your "holding" issue. As well it can depict momentum, support, resistence, stops, entries , breakouts..etc all from one indicator.

The breakout/fake out trade issue is common and is easily resolved with a pullback retest entry, or a scale in entry. However with such a small account size multiple contracts is detrimental.

However, with CME's micro currency contract or a micro forex account, scaling is possible with out over leveraging.

The following user says Thank You to peterg for this post:

Closed Thread



futures io > > > Zen & the Art of The Small Account

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
paper account real account interactive brokers Mehdi IB Trader Workstation 15 January 6th, 2012 12:16 PM
Big time frames with small account Morainer Psychology and Money Management 10 June 24th, 2011 04:16 PM
Growing A Small account - Have to start somewhere cgleckman Trading Journals 26 April 4th, 2011 01:46 PM
My account got messed up & lost 2K cause I did not wait on a support call thinkfuture Traders Hideout 8 November 3rd, 2010 01:25 PM
Best Data Provider to compliment Zen-Fire for Mkt Internals & EOD Data? waverider Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 17 October 14th, 2010 11:33 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:29 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-16 in 0.17 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.160.245.121