Zen & the Art of The Small Account - futures io
futures io



Zen & the Art of The Small Account


Discussion in Trading Journals

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one PandaWarrior with 455 posts (1,602 thanks)
    2. looks_two tderrick with 74 posts (54 thanks)
    3. looks_3 Big Mike with 52 posts (176 thanks)
    4. looks_4 bluemele with 34 posts (37 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one PandaWarrior with 3.5 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Big Mike with 3.4 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 bluemele with 1.1 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 tderrick with 0.7 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 182,280 views
    2. thumb_up 2,558 thanks given
    3. group 102 followers
    1. forum 994 posts
    2. attach_file 228 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 150,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

Closed Thread
 
Search this Thread
 

Zen & the Art of The Small Account

(login for full post details)
  #161 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,182 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,680 given, 99,538 received


Michael.H View Post
Az trader, would you be willing to share your Excel spreadsheet for recording trades. Yours looks much cleaner :-)

I think he already did?

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 3 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
Multidata
EasyLanguage Programming
Tips for directional bias during Asian Session?
Traders Hideout
value chart indicator by sim22
NinjaTrader
mahDualCandlePattern
NinjaTrader
Tick Data Group Buy
Emini and Emicro Index
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
96 thanks
How many day traders are profitable?
58 thanks
how many hours per day do you watch the market?
15 thanks
Why you should move from futures to forex
15 thanks
Attached Orders
13 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #162 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
In the heat
 
Experience: None
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,163 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,328 given, 13,392 received

I have taken more live trades in the last two days than almost all the previous 7 months!. First things first here. I am proud of that fact. I used to have severe trigger pulling issues. I still do, but they are much less now.

The chart says it all. The early morning appeared to be all chop. I was nervous about that and let the first couple three go by, did not believe my eyes. But still, my method gave nice clear signals even if I did not believe them.

First trade was into a transition zone but I felt there was enough room to get ten ticks. There was and I punched out early, I was late on entry so I was a little nervous. Same thing on the next three trades.

Then some chop. I waited and waited, the break came and left me behind. I waited again. More chop, got a decent entry, out to early.

Then I have a blank space in my memory about the 3 small losses. One of them was a long entry, stop placed properly, but it was moving so slow and when I took some heat, I got impatient, punched out only to see it go up enough to at least make me some profit.

Last two trades were just to get me back break even. I was up $151 and then down $31. I refused to end the day down. Last night my trading partner and I, (he trades the same system as I do, we developed in tandem) discussed the three loss rule. We decided if the losses were small, we can continue to trade past three losses in a row provided we have a valid set up. So I did today and managed to make $25 today.

All this is silly I know, trading where hundreds of dollars are available even with one contract and happy about $25. Its not the $25 I am happy about, its the waiting and waiting until I had a valid set up to enter. I am not happy about my failure to hold trades to completion. The last trade paid 10 ticks from my entry as did all the early ones.

On this trade though, I was early and took 7 ticks of heat, have to say, since it was moving so slow, this was one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life. Holding through the heat, enduring the slowness of it, then see it go green, just wanting out with anything positive, then seeing it go almost all the way to target, pull back a bit, it was to much, I bailed with 6 ticks. 3 seconds later, bam, full target hit. Oh well, I did the hard part, which was sit through the heat. Why did I do this, because the trade was a valid entry, the stop was valid, and I bailed to early before. So I held. Should have held longer, but I am proud of holding it as long as I did.

But in keeping with my first week agenda which is to take live trades every day, not lose to much money and just get settled in trading live money, I am ok with where I am now. Would prefer to be up several hundred dollars but it is what it is. I am up $888 in my sim account though. Took some of those trades I missed early.....silly huh?

Should just shut down the sim account from now on. Its an easy escape from doing what needs to be done.

Some lessons and then the benchmarks.

Lesson 1. Never trade after 9AM PST. Its tiring and and its slow.
2. Take the DAMN trades, the edge works.
3. Hold the trade all the way to target or until price tells me to get out. Forget about the whats in between....its just noise.
4. Did I mention take the DAMN trade? I meant it. Sorry for the french. I'm not mad at myself, not even frustrated, just motivated to do better each day.

Benchmark: These are entries that set up and taken with my one contract and ten tick target, what they would have produced:

7 Trades: $700, no losses. Nuff said.
Actual: 3 ticks, $25 dollars. Nuff said.

Cash is different. But its not that different. Prices still move the way I expect them to, my method still works, whats different is the emotion. So very different. What @Gary said the other day about KNOWING your edge works is the only thing that can take the edge off the emotional roller coaster. Even though I had trouble holding today, I only had the jackhammer heart once. That's progress for me.

I'm gratified my entries work, and I'm gratified I took for the most part, valid entries, just did not hold long enough.

Day two ends well.

Charts a little messy, my writing is disjointed but I am tired now....hardest day of work in a long time!

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	03 August 2010 NT Summary.jpg
Views:	158
Size:	278.6 KB
ID:	17929   Click image for larger version

Name:	03 August 2010 NT Trades.jpg
Views:	170
Size:	198.9 KB
ID:	17930   Click image for larger version

Name:	03 August 2010 TF Chart.jpg
Views:	239
Size:	287.0 KB
ID:	17931   Click image for larger version

Name:	03 August Excel.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	424.7 KB
ID:	17932   Click image for larger version

Name:	03 August MSA.jpg
Views:	141
Size:	205.1 KB
ID:	17933  
Started this thread
The following 4 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #163 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
In the heat
 
Experience: None
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,163 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,328 given, 13,392 received


Just bought three books:

Stress Free Trading
The Daily Trading Coach
The New Market Wizards.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Started this thread
The following 2 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #164 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,182 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,680 given, 99,538 received


aztrader9 View Post
Just bought three books:

Stress Free Trading
The Daily Trading Coach
The New Market Wizards.

Haven't read the first one, but the last two are positively fantastic.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following user says Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #165 (permalink)
 trippenlatin 
Houston, Tx
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT / NinjaTrader
Broker: Esignal / Zen-Fire
Trading: CL
 
trippenlatin's Avatar
 
Posts: 185 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 144 given, 315 received

good job in digging out of the hole. I agree with you on that no stop trading rule. Today I did the same thing. I ditched the rule and traded to make money. If the edge is on your side, then you will make more than you lose so why close down when after hitting a losing streak, cause if you do you just lost your ability to catch your winning streak.

The following user says Thank You to trippenlatin for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #166 (permalink)
itrade4income
Upstate, NY
 
 
Posts: 3 since May 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received

Mike,

I agree with you 100%. My leverage is 3500/1 and I add one car to every $3500 increase in my equity curve. A sure way to blow an account is to be over leveraged.

Cheers
itrade

 
(login for full post details)
  #167 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
In the heat
 
Experience: None
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,163 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,328 given, 13,392 received

The word for the day is "HOLD THE TRADE".

8 trades
Net $142.

Was down $132 after three trades, then 5 winners in a row.

About the two losing trades, neither of them fit the rules. They were break out trades: I HATE break out trades. Sorry to all you break out traders. I have a phobia about them. What it that phobia? It seems all break out trades take lots of heat. Right now, I can't handle the heat, so I can't cook in that kitchen.

I saw two break out trades work, took the 3rd one, but the stop was soooooooooo far away, could not handle it. Same on the next one. Stupid Stupid Stupid.

Actually, I think I was really nervous. Before I even turned on the monitor this morning, my heart was pounding and my hands were shaking. Under previous circumstances, I would just trade sim and wimp out. Not today. I know I have an edge, so I can trade it even if nervous. Also, my trading buddy was late this AM and he brings a sense of calm. I had three trades done before he got there.

Anyway, settled down, committed to only taking the right trades, and for the most part I did. Was late on almost all of them but still managed to make money. I felt in control of my emotions after the first three trades, the heart pounding went away, I was focused and business like. Just what is needed for successful trading.

Held two of the 5 winners to target of 10 ticks, held one to 5 ticks, market said it was going the other way and I punched out with two ticks and prices went against my entry enough to have stopped me out. Good trade management.

The other two winners could have and should have been held to full target. I just got nervous.

Still, today was better than yesterday in terms of entries and holding to target.

The entries could still be MUCH better. But I will continue to work on them until I can take them without hesitation.

At $142 in profit, I decided to close the live account down and trade sim for a bit. At that point, I had been trading sim alongside the live account testing a theory of mine but not really paying attention to it. The sim account was down $396. I managed to rescue the sim account as well and pull $117 net profit off. Could have been more but I was greedy and held a trade to long and got much less than I should have. I knew the price level would give it trouble but held anyway. Good example of taking profit where the market tells you to.

A few minutes past my trading cut off, a nice short started setting up. Remembering yesterdays marathon, I decided against any kind of trading at that point and let it go. Of course it was a big winner but so what. I'm not tired or worn out now and that is more important.

Benchmark for rule based entries: 6 trades: $600. More actually but I am using a ten tick target and so I limit the benchmark to ten ticks of profit per trade. In fact, on a couple of them today, there were 20-30 ticks of profit.

Actual: 8 trades: $142

Performance today:

B for trade management.
D for entry execution
C for holding trade to completion
A for making money anyway!
D for benchmark to actual

Another good day and I am above my starting point for the week. If I can end the week up slightly or only down a tiny bit, it will have been a very successful week.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	04 August Excel.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	445.3 KB
ID:	18001   Click image for larger version

Name:	04 August MSA.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	228.5 KB
ID:	18002   Click image for larger version

Name:	04 August NT  Summary.jpg
Views:	143
Size:	278.2 KB
ID:	18003   Click image for larger version

Name:	04 August NT Trade List.jpg
Views:	140
Size:	192.6 KB
ID:	18004   Click image for larger version

Name:	04 August TF Chart.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	244.5 KB
ID:	18005  
Started this thread
The following 4 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #168 (permalink)
 trippenlatin 
Houston, Tx
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT / NinjaTrader
Broker: Esignal / Zen-Fire
Trading: CL
 
trippenlatin's Avatar
 
Posts: 185 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 144 given, 315 received

awesome job, keep up the good work, going green in cash is tough, way to keep your wits about you and keep on

The following user says Thank You to trippenlatin for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #169 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
In the heat
 
Experience: None
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,163 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,328 given, 13,392 received

Today was a tough day for me. The big move had already happened when I got in front of the machine. So it was mostly just waiting for a bit. There was a lower probability re-entry signal but I did not take it.

Took a real signal to short, prices reversed and I exited right away for a small loss. Then a small winner, two small losses then two small winners.

All three of the winners SHOULD have been held for the full ten tick profit. Once again, I played the part of the chicken. But my entries were better today. I am doing better at the entry execution, still a bit late on some but better.

Most importantly, I exited two trades instantly when prices told me to. That is a big plus. Otherwise I would be red on the day instead of green.

Tomorrow's goal is to hold at least one trade all the way to target. If I get that on the first trade, I will be done for the day and week, having managed to make a profit however small in my first week of live trading. This will have been a major accomplishment for me.

Next week, same goal, hold good trades to target and work on executing entries faster when prices tell me to.

Next week, my weekly goal is $500 or 10 ticks net per day. If I get that done, I might go buy a starbucks and celebrate!

Benchmark: 6 entries, (1 failed) 5 HPE (High Probability Entries) that paid at least 10 ticks. So $500 less what ever was lost from the failed entry. I did take that entry late, got out with one tick loss. Had I been on time with the entry, I may have gotten out with a small profit.

Actual: 6 Trades: Net of $86 on the day.

Grades:

Entry execution: C
Holding trades: D
Trade management: D because of the holding issue, getting out when price said to: A
Being profitable for the day: D in comparison to benchmark.

Goals on the week: B+, could change tomorrow if I have red day.

The mental stuff was slightly easier today, almost no jackhammer heart, almost no hand shaking while clicking the button, etc. If the rest of my career was exactly like today in terms of the mental and emotional side, I would be happy.

One bright spot, last trade of the morning, waited for prices to confirm the short, drew a fib on a larger range chart to get a possible target, discovered it was WAY down there and entered the trade, prices went in my direction nicely and then proceeded to make its way all the way to my target and then some. But I had a problem with NT and that was the reason I bailed. My ATM had a BE+9 on it and when it fired, I got some kind of warning from my broker about an invalid order. Not knowing what that was, I freaked out a bit and bailed fast. But I had my target all the way down at the location the fib said it should be. So I got the call right,just had an equipment or technology malfunction. Have the broker looking at it now.

Have a great day....

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	05 August Chart.jpg
Views:	176
Size:	249.1 KB
ID:	18074   Click image for larger version

Name:	05 August Excel.jpg
Views:	143
Size:	465.8 KB
ID:	18075   Click image for larger version

Name:	05 August MSA.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	214.6 KB
ID:	18076   Click image for larger version

Name:	05 August NT Trades.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	171.3 KB
ID:	18077   Click image for larger version

Name:	05 NT Summary.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	276.3 KB
ID:	18078  
Started this thread
The following 2 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #170 (permalink)
 peterg 
maui
 
Experience: Master
Platform: NT, TWS,TW
Broker: IB.AMP.CQG.DTN
Trading: Currency, Futures, Options
 
peterg's Avatar
 
Posts: 122 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 35 given, 190 received


Ever consider a ATR Volatility Stop for your "holding" issue. As well it can depict momentum, support, resistence, stops, entries , breakouts..etc all from one indicator.

The breakout/fake out trade issue is common and is easily resolved with a pullback retest entry, or a scale in entry. However with such a small account size multiple contracts is detrimental.

However, with CME's micro currency contract or a micro forex account, scaling is possible with out over leveraging.

The following user says Thank You to peterg for this post:

Closed Thread

futures io Trading Community Trading Journals > Zen & the Art of The Small Account


Last Updated on July 25, 2011


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
     



Copyright © 2022 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada), info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts