Zen & the Art of The Small Account - futures io
futures io



Zen & the Art of The Small Account


Discussion in Trading Journals

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one PandaWarrior with 455 posts (1,602 thanks)
    2. looks_two tderrick with 74 posts (54 thanks)
    3. looks_3 Big Mike with 52 posts (176 thanks)
    4. looks_4 bluemele with 34 posts (37 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one PandaWarrior with 3.5 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Big Mike with 3.4 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 bluemele with 1.1 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 tderrick with 0.7 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 184,080 views
    2. thumb_up 2,558 thanks given
    3. group 102 followers
    1. forum 994 posts
    2. attach_file 228 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 150,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

Closed Thread
 
Search this Thread
 

Zen & the Art of The Small Account

(login for full post details)
  #131 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
In the heat
 
Experience: None
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,163 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,328 given, 13,393 received

Crazy day today....Got started with a nice winner, then 4 losers back to back....3 is my quitting point...But, I had been calling the direction right, just bad execution on the entries. Talked it over with my trading partner. Decided to try one or two more trades provided they were excellent entry setups.

I got two, the first one did not really have a logical place to put the stop, so I guessed. I got stopped out. But at the same time, I recognized the real entry, same direction as the last one but this time with a real stop location and it was the second move....as they say, the second mouse gets the cheese!

By this time, I was down $604.00, this represented most of the profit I've made in the income account in the last 8 trading days since I started it. But the last set up was a high probability trade with some serious downside potential. So I used a 30 tick target, once it got going, I moved it to 40 and then to 50. The trade stalled out at 40 and I got nervous so I closed it out with 37 ticks. My biggest trade ever if I remember correctly. This got me back profitable for the day. 30% win rate....ugly but effective.

Then, the trade moved another bazillion ticks in my direction....I left more than half the trade on the table. I guess I don't know how to feel about that. On one hand, it feels great knowing I got the call right. On the other hand, I should have held out for more. In the end, it was a winner, my biggest ever, and I am happy. Besides, who knew it would run so much...

One more day in the experiment and I am moving to cash. At this point, unless I get really stupid tomorrow and blow out the account, I cannot lose money this month. Even with 3 stops in a row, I am still profitable for the month.

I will add it all up and post the month's stats tomorrow.

Trading a small account is hard but doable......I have proved it this month....at least on sim. Next week with cash, we will see....but I am confident.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	29 July Income Excel.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	474.7 KB
ID:	17687   Click image for larger version

Name:	29 July Income MSA.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	218.6 KB
ID:	17688   Click image for larger version

Name:	29 July NT Trades List.jpg
Views:	164
Size:	210.1 KB
ID:	17689   Click image for larger version

Name:	29 July TF Chart2.jpg
Views:	202
Size:	180.6 KB
ID:	17690   Click image for larger version

Name:	29 July TF Chart.jpg
Views:	217
Size:	235.0 KB
ID:	17691  
Started this thread
The following 4 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
I Am A Self-Directed Trader About To Broker With JP Morg …
Traders Hideout
Order Flow Volume Profile POC parameters in Ninjatrder
NinjaTrader
new kid on the block
The Elite Circle
Historical Tick Data for E-mini Futures
The Elite Circle
Moving Average Price Scan
ThinkOrSwim
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
12 thanks
Cycle Analysis... a way of looking at price action.
8 thanks
Want your NinjaTrader indicator created, free?
7 thanks
Basic Education for Beginner Trader
7 thanks
TST/OneUp/LeeLoo/Earn2Trade
4 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #132 (permalink)
 jgreene 
Palm City, Fl
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 23 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 5 received


aztrader9 View Post
Crazy day today....Got started with a nice winner, then 4 losers back to back....3 is my quitting point...But, I had been calling the direction right, just bad execution on the entries. Talked it over with my trading partner. Decided to try one or two more trades provided they were excellent entry setups.

I got two, the first one did not really have a logical place to put the stop, so I guessed. I got stopped out. But at the same time, I recognized the real entry, same direction as the last one but this time with a real stop location and it was the second move....as they say, the second mouse gets the cheese!

By this time, I was down $604.00, this represented most of the profit I've made in the income account in the last 8 trading days since I started it. But the last set up was a high probability trade with some serious downside potential. So I used a 30 tick target, once it got going, I moved it to 40 and then to 50. The trade stalled out at 40 and I got nervous so I closed it out with 37 ticks. My biggest trade ever if I remember correctly. This got me back profitable for the day. 30% win rate....ugly but effective.

Then, the trade moved another bazillion ticks in my direction....I left more than half the trade on the table. I guess I don't know how to feel about that. On one hand, it feels great knowing I got the call right. On the other hand, I should have held out for more. In the end, it was a winner, my biggest ever, and I am happy. Besides, who knew it would run so much...

One more day in the experiment and I am moving to cash. At this point, unless I get really stupid tomorrow and blow out the account, I cannot lose money this month. Even with 3 stops in a row, I am still profitable for the month.

I will add it all up and post the month's stats tomorrow.

Trading a small account is hard but doable......I have proved it this month....at least on sim. Next week with cash, we will see....but I am confident.

Thanks for the forum, I find it very interesting. What system do you trade? I cannot seem to find it in this forum.

Thanks

The following user says Thank You to jgreene for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #133 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
In the heat
 
Experience: None
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,163 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,328 given, 13,393 received



jgreene View Post
Thanks for the forum, I find it very interesting. What system do you trade? I cannot seem to find it in this forum.

Thanks

Well to be frank, its not really a system so much as trying to trade with the trend and using a couple simple tools to do that with. Its also a culmination of a year and a half chasing the holy grail. I just happen to be a believer in fib trading and just found this thing that works for me. There are some nuances that must be learned by watching for a while....
The real success is not in the system or method, but between my ears. I believe you must learn, own and understand your method before you will trust it enough to trade it. In my case, I finally do. There is a whole story behind why I trust this and not something else but that would take all night to explain.

I use the dynamic fib lines located in the elite Big Mike's Day Trading Forum - PayPal Donate download section, the futures.io (formerly BMT)CMA in the download section and a custom shorter term MA set to 11. I also use the standard ninja OLHC with all but the open set to transparent, standard ninja prior day HL, the rangehighlow indie, the futures.io (formerly BMT) chart label for convenience and a 6 range bar on CL, TF, 6E, 4 range on ES.

Hope this helps....PM me if you want more detailed info....I may write this up in detail at a later date but not until after I'm making real money using it....then there will be some credibility behind it. Until then, its just talk.

The download section has a video with it to explain how to use the dynamic fibs and some of my previous posts have charts with them on it.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Started this thread
The following user says Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #134 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
In the heat
 
Experience: None
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,163 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,328 given, 13,393 received

Hello and goodbye. Hello to cash trading, goodbye to comfortable sim trading.

Last day of the month and I had the jitters and jackhammer heart. I know its because Monday is live trading. No other reason. Well actually thats not true. I also had the feeling I had finish strong today. Make plenty of money. Prove I was right....good indication to not trade right? But I kept at it. I suppressed that and decided I just needed to trade well.

I read in a post yesterday from Big Mike that when he has a bad feeling about a trade, just get out, red or green, just get out. I did that today. That saved my bacon as I was wrong a few times, I managed to get small profits on some of those and small losses on others. Overall, my winners won out and I made money.

7 total trades, net of $338 of my last day of trading.

So here are the final tallies of trading this $1000 account. These include both the income and wealth accounts. I stopped trading the wealth account a couple days after beginning the income account. This was to focus more on daily bread than growing my account as fast as possible. I figured I need to eat before I get fat.

Number of trades: 152
Number of winners: 88
Number of losers: 65
Average winner: $149
Average loser: $132
Win rate: 59.58%
Lose rate: 40.41%
Average ticks per trade: 3.262
Total net profit: $4038.00
Final balance of account: $5038.00

What were the major challenges?

1. The biggest one was the revenge trading day. That set me back $1800. It was almost like starting over.
2. Avoiding chop, I am getting marginally better at this.
3. Holding trades to completion.
4. Exiting a trade when I know I am wrong. Just need to punch out.
5. The need to be right. This is very strong. There is also a strong element of competition against other traders. Real or imagined, its there.
6. Patience for the right set up. Strong temptation to always be in the market. Getting better at this too.

What were the major successes?

1. Surviving the challenge intact
2. Finishing my first month ever profitably
3. Overcoming the revenge trading episode
4. Gradually learning to be patient, let the trade come to me, take it at the right time. Work in progress
5. Finding out I can trade for more than 10 ticks if needed.
6. Last but not least, the satisfaction I feel knowing I did what I set out to do. Finish this thing with integrity, transparently and I was consistent in my chart set up, my work hours, my journal, and most of all, the daily conversation with my wife.

Next month, I will continue this thread with live money. I will post my trades of course but not my account balances for obvious reasons. I will however, post a weekly profit and loss summary so you can at least see how the profit picture looks.

I will also continue to post my charts and daily debriefs. Hopefully this time next month I can write a similarly positive report.

Until next week..................

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	30 July TF Chart.jpg
Views:	227
Size:	235.2 KB
ID:	17744   Click image for larger version

Name:	30 July Income Excel.jpg
Views:	196
Size:	499.7 KB
ID:	17745   Click image for larger version

Name:	30 July Income MSA.jpg
Views:	156
Size:	241.5 KB
ID:	17746   Click image for larger version

Name:	30 July NT Summary.jpg
Views:	157
Size:	280.3 KB
ID:	17747   Click image for larger version

Name:	30 July NT Trade Log.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	229.8 KB
ID:	17748  
Started this thread
The following 8 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #135 (permalink)
 Zoethecus 
United States of America
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
 
Posts: 1,149 since Aug 2009

Good luck next month and every month thereafter.

 
(login for full post details)
  #136 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,182 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,681 given, 99,579 received

AzTrader,

I am extremely proud of you and this thread! No miracle cures, no holy grail, just hard work, determination, and relentless pursuit of your passion. You learned from your mistakes, you listened to others and took advice and made tweaks. Even on days you lost money, you learned valuable lessons and you applied them. You didn't walk in circles, you pressed onward and broke the mold, continuing your development and that all led to making money.

I look forward to your live trading. I don't mean to be a bummer, but I would suggest that your goal be to not lose money in live trading (say over a 30 day period), instead of focusing on making money. Walk before you run

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #137 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
In the heat
 
Experience: None
 
PandaWarrior's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,163 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 6,328 given, 13,393 received


Big Mike View Post
AzTrader,

I am extremely proud of you and this thread! No miracle cures, no holy grail, just hard work, determination, and relentless pursuit of your passion. You learned from your mistakes, you listened to others and took advice and made tweaks. Even on days you lost money, you learned valuable lessons and you applied them. You didn't walk in circles, you pressed onward and broke the mold, continuing your development and that all led to making money.

I look forward to your live trading. I don't mean to be a bummer, but I would suggest that your goal be to not lose money in live trading (say over a 30 day period), instead of focusing on making money. Walk before you run

Mike

Thank you for the kind words. My primary goal for the first week is to just try and have the same mental focus and stability as I did in sim. Anything above that will be a major win. I will also be looking to keep the losses small. My stats show I make 3.62 ticks every time I pull the trigger. That is a comforting stat.

After the first week, assuming I am still alive and have money in my account, I will begin to look toward slowly increasing the account. By the end of the month, I would like to have put at least $1000 extra dollars in there. That's $50 a day. I do think I can do much more, but I agree, the first goal is not to lose to much money or at least break even.

I will be trading exactly the way I have been trading, hopefully better but with the same system, etc. I also intend to treat my actual account as though it only has $1000 in it.

My money management will add cars only when I have enough money to withstand 3 full losses in a row at the new higher contract size and still be able to trade at the lower contract size comfortably. This means I will be compounding slower than I wanted, but its smarter in the long run.

See you next week.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
Started this thread
The following 3 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #138 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,182 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,681 given, 99,579 received

It's good to have those stats.

They can keep you grounded, and can act as a reminder. If you have a bad day or two, you don't go jumping to conclusions about a changing market or method, instead you should analyze your trades and see how they compare to your larger sample of sim trades the prior month. If things are off, like average time in position, win/loss dollar ratio, win percentage, your MAE and MFE, etc etc, then you know its likely execution and can focus (like you said) on that.

Have a good weekend,
Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following user says Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #139 (permalink)
 studio88 
Queensland, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, ProRealtime, Others
Broker: IB
 
Posts: 94 since May 2010
Thanks: 102 given, 47 received


aztrader9 View Post
Hello and goodbye. Hello to cash trading, goodbye to comfortable sim trading.

Next month, I will continue this thread with live money. I will post my trades of course but not my account balances for obvious reasons. I will however, post a weekly profit and loss summary so you can at least see how the profit picture looks.

I will also continue to post my charts and daily debriefs. Hopefully this time next month I can write a similarly positive report.

Until next week..................


Great Stuff there Arizona,


Looking forward to reading further posts of your upcoming transition and again well done for tackling what you set out to do and have done.

The following user says Thank You to studio88 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #140 (permalink)
 boxi 
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: AmiBroker, NinjaTrader
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 55 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 198 given, 41 received


aztrader I like the simplicity of your set ups, what is the violet line on your charts, a moving average? Best of luck trading real money.

The following user says Thank You to boxi for this post:

Closed Thread

futures io Trading Community Trading Journals > Zen & the Art of The Small Account


Last Updated on July 25, 2011


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
     



Copyright © 2022 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada), info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts