How I Trade For a Living - futures io
futures io



How I Trade For a Living


Discussion in Trading Journals

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one rocksolid68 with 238 posts (1,219 thanks)
    2. looks_two bobwest with 53 posts (262 thanks)
    3. looks_3 DaxyMcDaxFace with 37 posts (55 thanks)
    4. looks_4 wldman with 28 posts (143 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Inletcap with 16.2 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Big Mike with 10 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 rocksolid68 with 5.1 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 bobwest with 4.9 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 102,537 views
    2. thumb_up 3,079 thanks given
    3. group 140 followers
    1. forum 662 posts
    2. attach_file 95 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

Closed Thread
 
Search this Thread
 

How I Trade For a Living

(login for full post details)
  #501 (permalink)
 tbondtrader 
midwest
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja trader+tws
Broker: amp/cqg
Trading: zb and es
 
tbondtrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 434 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 992 given, 472 received

i voted to unban alex


if he does as charged in the future you can reinstate the ban he explained the situation from his side this morning,..

The following 2 users say Thank You to tbondtrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #502 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,014 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,474 given, 98,315 received

Sitting here with his video recording in the background. He just mentioned that I can read everyone's PM's, and it sent chills down my back.

This comes up occasionally (this morning was the first time maybe this year, in another thread where someone was banned). So I just want to state the absolute facts:

- Anyone with database access can technically read all users private messages
- It would be extremely time consuming and technically challenging (SQL statements)
- This is similar to any IT department staff, reading the emails of other users
- It is technically possible, but immoral

In some situations, users send me private messages or use the "Report PM" feature of the site, which then sends a copy of the PM to me, as an admin of the site, to read. This is what happened this morning in an unrelated banning of a different user, which gave me the info I needed to make an informed decision about banning the other guy.

I spend 5 minutes writing this post because I don't need more people out there spreading that I read private messages. Banned vendors love to throw this at me as a reason they were banned. No disrespect towards Alex for mentioning that, I do believe he meant any harm by saying it. But I felt it was necessary for me to clarify before everyone's tin foil hat gets put on...

Here is the other thread I spoke about from this morning:


Thanks,
Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 7 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #503 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 2,990 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,591 given, 5,938 received


Big Mike View Post
Guys,

Let's do this. I normally fully believe that in cases such as this, a decision must simply be made and move on, because if you invite too much discussion for every decision it just ends in chaos. In the end, a leader must lead, and his followers can decide if he is a good leader or a bad one.

However, because of the complexity of this particular case, I am going to simply let you decide. Below is the poll, you can vote and we'll just go based on that. I will implement whatever the members want. Poll is open until end of Friday.



Mike


Is there somewhere all the facts are presented for everyone? For instance, how many people reported PMs with solicitation (and what was the content the complainer reported getting?). Otherwise, this will be just a popularity contest on Alex.

Follow me on Twitter
 
(login for full post details)
  #504 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,014 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,474 given, 98,315 received


kevinkdog View Post
Is there somewhere all the facts are presented for everyone? For instance, how many people reported PMs with solicitation (and what was the content?). Otherwise, this will be just a popularity contest on Alex.

No one reported any of rocksolid's PM's, so in no way has any of his PM's been read. It was an email thread between a FIO member and an admin of FIO.

The user can come forward if he wishes. The user made me aware of some things (the other admin forwarded me the email), and then I investigated on my own. The decision was mine, not the other admin, not the member that sent the email.

Hindsight trading alert

Please forgive me if I don't respond too much more in this thread, it has already occupied a lot of my time.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
(login for full post details)
  #505 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 2,990 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,591 given, 5,938 received


Big Mike View Post
No one reported any of rocksolid's PM's, so in no way has any of his PM's been read. It was an email thread between a FIO member and an admin of FIO.

The user can come forward if he wishes. The user made me aware of some things (the other admin forwarded me the email), and then I investigated on my own. The decision was mine, not the other admin, not the member that sent the email.

Hindsight trading alert

Please forgive me if I don't respond too much more in this thread, it has already occupied a lot of my time.

Mike


Makes sense, but without all the facts, how can any of us vote properly?

Follow me on Twitter
 
(login for full post details)
  #506 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,014 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,474 given, 98,315 received


kevinkdog View Post
Makes sense, but without all the facts, how can any of us vote properly?

When is it ever possible to know all of the facts? That would be like saying you need to know if the next trade is a winner or loser before taking it.

All we ever have in life is our opinion and our perspective based on our experiences. We all trade our beliefs, we all live our life based on our beliefs.

In my original post, I linked to the same links that were given to me in the email from the member. I had no direct communication with the member, just a forwarded copy of an email with some links.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 3 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #507 (permalink)
emptymind
San Diego California
 
 
Posts: 129 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 23 given, 50 received

Big Mike, I thank you for giving Alex a chance with the poll option.

Honestly before this whole incident, I didn't know what values this site stood for, or more or less just thought it was another trading forum.
All I heard in the chatroom from Alex prior to the incident on why he wasn't charging was because hes trying to make a change in the industry which I believe. And to have an 18 year old who has the experience in trading and the right character traits is hopeful for the younger generation and this forum.

Anyways, I am really humbled and have new-founded appreciation to be a part of this community. Hopefully once I become consistently profitable for a few weeks....instead of constantly losing.......then I can see what the elite membership is all about and dive further in. Good luck to you Alex with the votes.

 
(login for full post details)
  #508 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,856 received

while I still do not understand some things, my gut is that Alex is extremely talented...not trading specific, rather in general. Like what I said earlier, some things seem unconventional about his approach and sometimes I wonder. I am willing to extend benefit of doubt because I believe Alex can become really significant to forum participants.

Evidence the way he plead his side in the attached youtube video. I think Alex might simply be an exceptional individual with a pure heart.... the exception.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 4 users say Thank You to wldman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #509 (permalink)
 sharmas 
Auckland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker: Zen-Fire
Trading: CL and ES
 
Posts: 764 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 3,793 given, 735 received

I believe the user who reported must and should man up and front up.

@rocksolid was providing the services for free and he sent invites but was up to the user to accept and go to his room

I know how it feels when you get accused of something you haven't done.

With what @BigMike had he did what he felt was correct path and i haven't seen Big Mike open a poll to unban a user before, so we need to acknowledge and appreciate that.

Lets give Rocksolid another opportunity.

Sharmas


Big Mike View Post
No one reported any of rocksolid's PM's, so in no way has any of his PM's been read. It was an email thread between a FIO member and an admin of FIO.

The user can come forward if he wishes. The user made me aware of some things (the other admin forwarded me the email), and then I investigated on my own. The decision was mine, not the other admin, not the member that sent the email.

Hindsight trading alert

Please forgive me if I don't respond too much more in this thread, it has already occupied a lot of my time.

Mike


Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 2 users say Thank You to sharmas for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #510 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012

There are enough con artist scamming noobs into scalping ES, like Al Brooks. Yes his room is free, though I think ulterior motives are at hand. Do you really think this 18 year old is going to make you a profitable ES scalper? Give me a break. Enough people have lost lots of money due to these type of scammers.

@Big Mike, make him show you actual proof of his claims. In the room today he stated he traded live. Make him show you his ES brokerage statements proving he is trading live and profitable as he claims. Otherwise I say stay banned. And ban Al Brooks and all the other vendors who also show no prove of their claims.

 
(login for full post details)
  #511 (permalink)
 bgrosse 
Irvine
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: thinkOrSwim
Trading: ZB
 
Posts: 18 since Oct 2016
Thanks: 11 given, 33 received


rwbil View Post
There are enough con artist scamming noobs into scalping ES, like Al Brooks. Yes his room is free, though I think ulterior motives are at hand. Do you really think this 18 year old is going to make you a profitable ES scalper? Give me a break. Enough people have lost lots of money due to these type of scammers.

@Big Mike, make him show you actual proof of his claims. In the room today he stated he traded live. Make him show you his ES brokerage statements proving he is trading live and profitable as he claims. Otherwise I say stay banned. And ban Al Brooks and all the other vendors who also show no prove of their claims.

I don't see Alex trying to scam anyone into anything. He's not saying, "Here.. trade the way I do and you'll make money." He's saying, "This what works for me." He encourages everyone to do their own work to find the system that works for them. Since he's not selling anything, nor even saying that he has found the holy grail of methods, I don't see why anyone should need to see brokerage statements. If you're interested, go to his room, watch his trades. If you learn something, great. If not, no sweat.

The following 3 users say Thank You to bgrosse for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #512 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,856 received

@rwbil that is harsh man.

True enough that ANYONE that believes someone else will turn them into a successful ANYTHING is doomed.

True enough that FOOLS lose lots of money. Without the fools all of us that have provided a consistent, ongoing and often lucrative standard of living from speculation or trading would have to find some other vocation.

There was a way in the works for live trading orders and confirmations to populate a thread here at fio. What ever happened to that? I do agree that ANY broadcast of any type of trade is highly suspect without such seamless and systemic verification. Corollary to that you have some set of balls to demand like you do that @Big Mike do anything, especially force someone to turn over trade confirms and statements.

There were periods where I simply stopped posting at BMT because I was not going to divide time to answer detractors. What could I possibly gain from making shit up and taking the time to post it. I was not going to copy and redact statements and confirms because someone thought I got a boner from lying in an internet forum. If you don't believe what someone says state your difference and wait for a reply, if no adequate common understanding comes, stop reading that person, simple.

Here is the biggest fraud: if the kid @rocksolid68 posted seamless trade confirms that validated claims he has never made...say right 80%, winners 3:1 larger than losers and 10-15 trades of 10 contracts per day...how many forum participants would subscribe at even $1,000 a month?

I've seen information, guidance, indicators etcetera literally worth millions of dollars posted here for free, I've also seen tons of useless bullshit for sale at hilarious prices. Retain what is valuable, discard without harm what is not valuable, again simple. I'm sorry if the learning curve is too steep or too expensive for many of the hopium addicted dreamers. Take a chance and click the button, or don't, but be responsible for yourself. You are among alpha predators in the most competitive vocation on Earth.

Mike has gone to great lengths to maintain a terrific forum.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 11 users say Thank You to wldman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #513 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,459 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 48,936 given, 21,596 received


wldman View Post
while I still do not understand some things, my gut is that Alex is extremely talented...not trading specific, rather in general. Like what I said earlier, some things seem unconventional about his approach and sometimes I wonder. I am willing to extend benefit of doubt because I believe Alex can become really significant to forum participants.

Evidence the way he plead his side in the attached youtube video. I think Alex might simply be an exceptional individual with a pure heart.... the exception.

I do not know if I am simply a sucker, but I decided to vote for unban as well, much for Dan's reasons.

Actually, "reason" has not got much to do with it. I'm acting on my gut, not my head.

I will be really, really pissed if I turn out wrong. But that's always the chance you take.

I hope no one is influenced by my vote; I hope everyone who votes makes up their own mind. But I did want to say something, since I had expressed my disappointment earlier.

Bob.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 4 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #514 (permalink)
 Inletcap 
Murrells Inlet SC
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Trading: ES, CL, ETFs
 
Inletcap's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,158 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 9,765 given, 25,979 received

So far I have bit my tongue while soaking in all the information regarding this situation. I was always curious how the kid went from this in late March:


rocksolid68 View Post
Stick to SIM? You told me that it is unrealistic.


Inletcap View Post
It is- but you are just doing this for fun. On sim you get all the excitement for FREE!

.

to this


Seems he really moved quickly to go from a struggling trader, to passing a combine, through funded trader prep and traded enough as a funded trader to open a real brokerage with enough $$ to hold multiple GC contracts overnight along side ES and CL positions... I've been around this industry for 2 decades and I must say this is quite the turnaround.

I have also been puzzled by the fact that when he came back, his new journal was opened in the NON Elite section whereas the old one was elite.

All this could easily be accounted for so I will move on to what really bothers me:

Alex, you claim that a few of us are your "mentors". I've personally spent a bunch of my time replying to your questions and offering assistance. We have all shared our ideas in the forums and ask for nothing in exchange but a "Thanks" every once in awhile... How can you, in good conscience, take what others have graciously put out there for your benefit and attempt to monetize it under the guise of helping others? Whether you ultimately charged people or not, the fact that you were initially inclined to do so speaks volumes to me about your character. I have yet to determine my vote as I fear you will gather more information here and one day make another attempt but the other side says to give the kid a break. I truly feel used and abused- I hope this is a good life lesson for you at a young age and no matter what the outcome is, you can learn from this experience as well as all the others made available on FIO.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
(login for full post details)
  #515 (permalink)
 chipps1983 
Dover+NJ/US
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Stage5/Advantage Futures
Trading: NQ
 
chipps1983's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,040 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 5,105 given, 3,642 received

Even though I don't trade ES, I have been to the room maybe 3 times.
Honestly, I did not find any unnecessary talk in the room. It was quite, nice and simple. Very useful to the new traders IMHO.

Remember, you have to find your own path. I unbanned him as my opinion to help others using the forum.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

--------
Chipps
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 4 users say Thank You to chipps1983 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #516 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,856 received

@bobwest I'd hate to be wrong too. I'm not endorsing the room or the approach, BUT I could be convinced either way by the kids consistent actions. What I am saying is that I questioned, like many, that Mike let it go on in the first place. We all have experience seeing all kinds of BS perpetrated here. This could end like that. Everyone has to evaluate for themselves those things set before them. Alex has not set anything down that proves he's anything, yet. For me, I will judge by how he responds to specific questions...like the one I posed in the last thread post prior to ban.

Full disclosure from the wldman: I see potential in the kid across a few specific talents. I am not sure, as I have posted before, if I will return to regular intraday directional speculation as a vocation, as a hobbyist, or at all. For a long time I've considered organizing as a RIA or hedge fund and going full speed back into institutional professional trading. 2% and 20% is dead, but passive is too. Given that it would take in excess of a million bucks to get off the ground and doing so would guarantee me 12-14 hour work days I am always on the lookout for items that could sway the decision. My thought, upon meeting the kid, was that he has skills that I do not have. (as do many members) Let me see if I can investigate and cultivate a relationship that would allow me to make a determination.

The kid lost a lot, often and early. He adjusted his approach. He learned from mistakes. He pressed forward. I have yet to hear a complaint, or a negative word from him. He is humble. He is grateful. He is positive. He communicates well. He gives credit where due. He takes responsibility. He has attempted to give before asking anything.

Yes, I look at all of you through that prism.

Possible the house is built on sand, yes. What is the upside? Everything is a trade, it is an affliction...but this one is still open.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following user says Thank You to wldman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #517 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,856 received

@Inletcap

I wonder the same. The kid went from struggling to sage faster than anyone I've seen. But his statements are not over the top...public or private. Alex is an interesting cat for sure. I put it in a context of a guy that just turned 18 and then compare it to me when I was 18. That is intriguing. If the kid is legit, dang, I want him on the team.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 3 users say Thank You to wldman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #518 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
Posts: 2,743 since May 2014
Thanks: 5,444 given, 8,140 received

I very strongly believe the ban should be maintained.

All of below is my personal opinion of course.

Alex and his father Chris Sielaff have in my personal opinion been playing games with us. These men are relatively intelligent and I must believe were manipulating the crap out of members here with forethought.

Alex the kid takes over his father's account (starts rockyroad journal) after his father (by writing style) has spent a lot of time looking at many vendor reviews. Lots of research there in his posts. He and his father I believe had a long standing plan to open a commercial trading room:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160306082836/crossfiretrading.com/

Check the whois pdf print attached and dates etc.

In order to gain market share for free they sought out popular rooms on FIO while playing for compliments and support from the more experienced guys using Jr's, just a 17 year old kid, emotional tug. "Sharing" the account one can observe odd changes in writing style from rocksolid68.

Why? Money and lots of it I have to think. Alex the 17 year old when he started working on us has previous worked as an "instructor" for Global Trade Room who have quite an interesting history of their own and many accusation thrown around. We know from CTFC investigations that vendors can make millions and GTR was maybe in trouble (early this year) due to a spat with Emmett Moore a while back.

Despite taking many tips and tricks from GTR he was still, at best, a mediocre trader so it takes quite a lot of gall to take hundreds in fees for his room beyond say 5 bucks per person to pay for Gotomeeting or whatever he used.

If Mike had said not said no to him plugging ZeroGravity commercially on FIO (as is normal) he would have switched to a two day trial (scammer length IMO) and activated the commercial zerogravity site as was his father's plan since January.

Also Alex (or the rocksolid68 collective) did not wish to lose "Wizard" status by becoming a vendor. You cannot be both in the FIO forum system he told me in a PM. A vendor is nobody really but a "Wizard" can highly influence new members so he would gain followers faster for the planned switch to commercial.

the "rocksolid68 collective", Alex and Chris would have MASSIVELY benefited from market-share gained via the "stolen valor" of a kind from Spoos and Scalpers thread guys; seasoned people who would have behaved differently knowing their complete past.

I feel he tried to deceive me, lies of omission are lies nonetheless in my reality.

Attached Thumbnails
How I Trade For a Living-crossfiretrading-com-whois-lookup-_-whois-domain-availability-search-database-godaddy.pdf  
 
(login for full post details)
  #519 (permalink)
 calafrius 
Belo Horizonte MG / Brazil
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart, R Trader
Trading: CL / ES
 
calafrius's Avatar
 
Posts: 147 since May 2010
Thanks: 211 given, 366 received

If he deserves to come back or not, I do not know. If he has good intentions or not, I do not know.
He, coming back or not, already have enough popularity.
Those who do not like him did a great job!

 
(login for full post details)
  #520 (permalink)
davidtaylor
London, United Kingdom
 
 
Posts: 13 since Sep 2016
Thanks: 74 given, 28 received

Even Stevie Wonder could see that Alex is a sim trader.

The following 4 users say Thank You to davidtaylor for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #521 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,856 received

That could all very well be the case. Good points.



Rory View Post
I very strongly believe the ban should be maintained.

All of below is my personal opinion of course.

Alex and his father Chris Sielaff have in my personal opinion been playing games with us. These men are relatively intelligent and I must believe were manipulating the crap out of members here with forethought.

Alex the kid takes over his father's account (starts rockyroad journal) after his father (by writing style) has spent a lot of time looking at many vendor reviews. Lots of research there in his posts. He and his father I believe had a long standing plan to open a commercial trading room:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160306082836/crossfiretrading.com/

Check the whois pdf print attached and dates etc.

In order to gain market share for free they sought out popular rooms on FIO while playing for compliments and support from the more experienced guys using Jr's, just a 17 year old kid, emotional tug. "Sharing" the account one can observe odd changes in writing style from rocksolid68.

Why? Money and lots of it I have to think. Alex the 17 year old when he started working on us has previous worked as an "instructor" for Global Trade Room who have quite an interesting history of their own and many accusation thrown around. We know from CTFC investigations that vendors can make millions and GTR was maybe in trouble (early this year) due to a spat with Emmett Moore a while back.

Despite taking many tips and tricks from GTR he was still, at best, a mediocre trader so it takes quite a lot of gall to take hundreds in fees for his room beyond say 5 bucks per person to pay for Gotomeeting or whatever he used.

If Mike had said not said no to him plugging ZeroGravity commercially on FIO (as is normal) he would have switched to a two day trial (scammer length IMO) and activated the commercial zerogravity site as was his father's plan since January.

Also Alex (or the rocksolid68 collective) did not wish to lose "Wizard" status by becoming a vendor. You cannot be both in the FIO forum system he told me in a PM. A vendor is nobody really but a "Wizard" can highly influence new members so he would gain followers faster for the planned switch to commercial.

the "rocksolid68 collective", Alex and Chris would have MASSIVELY benefited from market-share gained via the "stolen valor" of a kind from Spoos and Scalpers thread guys; seasoned people who would have behaved differently knowing their complete past.

I feel he tried to deceive me, lies of omission are lies nonetheless in my reality.


Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 2 users say Thank You to wldman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #522 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,856 received

share this sentiment based on answers or lack there of...but I was short of a decision and can't be sure. I do not like SIM even more than I do not like "backtesting"...the secret code word for the SIM Society.


davidtaylor View Post
Even Stevie Wonder could see that Alex is a sim trader.


Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
(login for full post details)
  #523 (permalink)
 jdox 
Chicago, Illinois
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 78 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 776 given, 62 received

Hey @Inletcap I've learned a lot from you and I respect you a lot so please don't take any of this the wrong way.

I think when he was considering having a charge for the room, it was basically to cover the expenses and maybe keep the riff raff out. He mentioned that when the room goes over 100 people, it increased the cost of the chat room and I believe it was mostly intended to pay for that. When it came down to it, he decided against charging and ended up funding all the costs on his own which for an 18 year old kid, is commendable if you ask me. I don't think its really fair to get upset at him just because the thought of charging crossed his mind. It doesn't really seem any different than having a charge for the forum, the way that Big Mike does. Keeps the trouble makers out and gives everyone a reason to take it seriously. I don't know if you've had a chance to log onto the room or not but Alex has mentioned your name quite a few times and I know he really looks up to you and some of the other frequent posters on futures.io

Anyway that's just my take on it. Again, I have nothing but respect for you and really appreciate all your contributions and efforts around here. I try to make it down to the inlet a few days each year and expect to run into you sometime and when I do, drinks are on me!

The following user says Thank You to jdox for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #524 (permalink)
 Neo1 
Christchurch, New Zealand
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Broker: IB, BC, Dx Feed
Trading: US Equities
 
Neo1's Avatar
 
Posts: 428 since Jul 2014
Thanks: 471 given, 501 received

The Kid is "18", been trading for 2-3 years. Hardly the credentials for running a trade room.

The writing style in his posts portrays someone much older than 18.

Either way, something is off.

Just my 2cents.

"Free markets work because they allow people to be lucky, thanks to aggressive trial and error, not by giving rewards or incentives for skill. The strategy is, then, to tinker as much as possible and try to collect as many Black Swan opportunities as you can"
The following 6 users say Thank You to Neo1 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #525 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 2,990 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,591 given, 5,938 received

Since he broke the forum rules (according to @Big Mike he promoted GTR without disclosing his relationship with them), then I don't see how the ban can be undone. Pretty simple - rules are rules.

If he gets unbanned, we will be headed down a slippery slope.

Follow me on Twitter
The following 9 users say Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #526 (permalink)
 jdox 
Chicago, Illinois
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 78 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 776 given, 62 received


kevinkdog View Post
Since he broke the forum rules (according to @Big Mike he promoted GTR without disclosing his relationship with them), then I don't see how the ban can be undone. Pretty simple - rules are rules.

If he gets unbanned, we will be headed down a slippery slope.

Can you show me the post or quote where he promoted them? I can't find it anywhere.
Thanks.

The following 3 users say Thank You to jdox for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #527 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
Posts: 2,743 since May 2014
Thanks: 5,444 given, 8,140 received

Just to say, as I posted above, I have to go out for a couple of hours.

I'm not ignoring anyone who comments and a couple of PMs I just got.

I know on FIO we will not degrade into the polarised US election. (not feeling very smiley sadly).

 
(login for full post details)
  #528 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 2,990 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,591 given, 5,938 received


jdox View Post
Can you show me the post or quote where he promoted them? I can't find it anywhere.
Thanks.


Big Mike refers to it in this post...



Follow me on Twitter
 
(login for full post details)
  #529 (permalink)
 jdox 
Chicago, Illinois
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 78 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 776 given, 62 received


kevinkdog View Post
Big Mike refers to it in this post...



I see that post and the links but am still having trouble finding the part where he promotes them. Can you quote the promotional part please?

Thanks again

The following user says Thank You to jdox for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #530 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 2,990 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,591 given, 5,938 received


jdox View Post
I see that post and the links but am still having trouble finding the part where he promotes them. Can you quote the promotional part please?

Thanks again

In these posts he discusses GTR, and he acts like a customer, not an employee...





Follow me on Twitter
 
(login for full post details)
  #531 (permalink)
 jdox 
Chicago, Illinois
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 78 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 776 given, 62 received


kevinkdog View Post
In these posts he discusses GTR, and he acts like a customer, not an employee...





How is that promotional? And didn't he say on the recording that those posts were before they asked him to be a moderator?

The following user says Thank You to jdox for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #532 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,014 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,474 given, 98,315 received


jdox View Post
I think when he was considering having a charge for the room, it was basically to cover the expenses and maybe keep the riff raff out. He mentioned that when the room goes over 100 people, it increased the cost of the chat room and I believe it was mostly intended to pay for that.

Just some info:

We have a 500 seat GoToWebinar license, the cost is $249.00 per month. Alex originally said he was going to charge $429 per person per year for the room. Breaking that down monthly that would work out to $36 per person. He would need 7 people to break even. If he has just 7 people, why does he need a 500 seat license? Lower seat capacity is dramatically cheaper.

I'm just trying to state some numbers, not offer an opinion. As for "keep the riff raff out", the concept is not lost on me (see: FIO Elite).



Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 11 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #533 (permalink)
 tturner86 
Elite Member
Portland, Oregon
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: F-16CM-50
Trading: GBU-39
 
tturner86's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,172 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 10,456 given, 12,606 received


jdox View Post
How is that promotional? And didn't he say on the recording that those posts were before they asked him to be a moderator?

Being an employee and acting as a customer leaving a review is very unethical in any business.

Forget his other room and his story, The rules of the forum that alone would be a ban-able offence. That is exactly why thousands of vendors have been banned in the past.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 10 users say Thank You to tturner86 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #534 (permalink)
 jdox 
Chicago, Illinois
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 78 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 776 given, 62 received


tturner86 View Post
Being an employee and acting as a customer leaving a review is very unethical in any business.

Forget his other room and his story, The rules of the forum that alone would be a ban-able offence. That is exactly why thousands of vendors have been banned in the past.

From what I can tell, he was looking into the signing up for the room (as a customer) at the time he made the posts. He didn't end up being a moderator until after the fact.

I really shouldn't speak for him though because I don't know. I'm just basing this off of what I've read and what I understood he described in the room this morning. To me, the bottom line is that he seems like he's genuinely trying to help people and doesn't appear to be a phony from what I can tell. I feel that if nothing else, he at least deserves a chance to defend himself.

I'll leave it at that.

 
(login for full post details)
  #535 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
Posts: 66 since Apr 2016

If you want to buy a dream got to:

Stream Dream | Teachers

He is the teacher. His father owns the site, check streamdream @whois and get his info.

At least you know who you are dealing with.

 
(login for full post details)
  #536 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,856 received

think that this was/is headed to vendor status for sure. I do wonder at the notion of a guy with such little experience and without an audit able track record (industry standard) being in a position to charge for anything. I was/am concerned by lack of specifics and very few specific answers to questions BUT I was not interested in Alex for his trading advice. I wanted a chance to vet the kid as a salesman and a front guy for a fund aimed at millennials.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following user says Thank You to wldman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #537 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,856 received


IzhakHaim View Post
If you want to buy a dream got to:

Stream Dream | Teachers

He is the teacher. His father owns the site, check streamdream @whois and get his info.

At least you know who you are dealing with.

Looks perhaps like Mike's initial contempt was correct. Wldman has to be done with this for now.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 5 users say Thank You to wldman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #538 (permalink)
 noobforlyfe 
Toronto , Ontario, Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart, SC
Trading: Emini ES, CL, USD/CAD
 
Posts: 424 since Jun 2016
Thanks: 1,379 given, 723 received

So, I feel like in my opinion the evidence @Rory brought up changes a few things. Although he did not promote anything during the duration of the trading room at all, however, I am quite shocked by the crossfiretrading result that shows a relation to RockSolid68's account as the account is used by Alex and his father interchangeably.

We have crossfiretrading, streamdream, now zerohedgetrading, and god knows how many more in the past, and a possible theory is that this trading room could be a small jist of what is offered in the future on a subscription basis? idk, its my theory, although he has never forced anything on anyone at all or even mentioned selling anything in the room.

But if you clearly have some relations to sites like crossfiretrading, stream dream, which is owned by his father, and they both used this account at one point, then it should be disclosed that yes you have these sites even if you don't sell or force anyone to anything.

I feel there were some corners cut and things unmentioned on purpose, which should have been disclosed from beginning knowing the rules of this forum.

Although I really like the place where a lot of us got together and just chatted around, I think that ignoring the rules of the forum are not acceptable, and I feel in my opinion the ban should remain (this doesn't mean you should vote like me as well). No doubt he has put in his genuine effort to put up with a free room for us to visit if you'd like, its not forced, it was totally optional. But I also feel betrayed to an extent when I saw the external roots connected to this account, which we wouldn't have known about if none of this ever happened.

I feel it is a good decision by @bigmike, a little bit of digging by FIO members and we have found 3 sites affiliated with this account, this is ringing a big red bell in my head, and i feel its a good call. we shouldn't even have the voting in my opinion, that would mean everyone else in the future would also deserve voting then.

This is all of my personal opinion and by no way am I trying to persuade anyone, so you guys form your own decision and vote accordingly to your decision (that's if you'd like to vote).

Edit: Also, I feel maybe 1/1000 people would uptake a cost of $50 / month to host a free room for everyone. It was strategic in my mind to keep it on a thread where even guests can see. Anyone who has many sites offering trading subscriptions and services and then say they are holding a room just to genuinely help people out for free sounds really to good to be true. I applaud whoever tipped this to moderator for this forum.

No wonder why he asks anyone whose name isn't familiar since they weren't regular people, and he'd ask them "how'd you find me and this room? " Who knows how many sites he has, but we know so far of 3. You also have the question, why have more than 1 website, streamdream, crossfire, zerohedge. In the morning I really gave him the benefit of doubt and now we see how cleverly this has been executed. I'm also deeply hurt.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 7 users say Thank You to noobforlyfe for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #539 (permalink)
 ratfink 
Birmingham UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: TST/Rithmic
Trading: YM/Gold
 
ratfink's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,651 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 17,422 given, 8,403 received

Surely it is simple moving beyond this pickle.

Enough people can still go into his room without any connection or detraction here on FIO and work out for themselves how profitable they are from what they learn in the room. If it's good then great. If not, then situation normal. There is no conflict, just pending clarity.

If he wants to, Alex can provide proof of trading statements and real profits at any time. For my own dumb-hat wearing I made a massive assumption that his profitability and real trading were not even in question. He gets my respect back if it was all legitimate, but I voted ban stays unless proved otherwise.

I didn't partake of the room as I don't trade the ES and also could not see how his scaling method was going to help new starters with small accounts get going anyway. Plus the fact that he's 18, no disrespect, he may be a real smart cookie but is 'bear market' even in the vocabulary?

Trading aside it was even simpler, as @Rory pointed out a while back, just too many !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'s.

A car insurance company today had to back-track on some social media account scanning, (usual fox in the hen house cobblers when Facebook says the privacy of its users is important,) but the real message was simple - excessive use of exclamation marks correlates with overconfidence.

Let the future happen, it will do anyway.

Cheers

Travel Well
Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 8 users say Thank You to ratfink for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #540 (permalink)
 DaxyMcDaxFace 
London
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts
Broker: CQG
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 578 since May 2016
Thanks: 1,065 given, 444 received


jdox View Post
I was only able to catch the first portion in the room this morning but did get to hear his side of things which I am glad for. First let me say that you could hear in the guys voice that he was genuinely upset and hurt by all of this because he loves the futures.io community so much and it helped him get to where he is today. As another poster indicated, he started out by saying that he is not mad at Mike and only wishes that he had a chance to answer to these accusations before being banned. He said that he would've gladly never mentioned the room again if he would've been allowed to stay.

He said that when he first had the idea to open a room, he thought about charging a small fee to cover the costs and to make a small amount for his time. After talking to Mike, he decided against it and made the decision to fund the costs of the room with his own money. At one point (years ago from what I gathered) he was asked to be a moderator on another site but eventually left because he didn't agree with their business practices. Here is what he says about that on his site:

In my second year I was asked to join one of these rooms and moderate for them. I spent a lot of my time speaking with the members one on one. I quickly came to the realization that none of them were profitable and that they needed real help. It was the that I decided to leave and become my own man. I wanted to develop my own trading style and help those that hadnít done so yet.


I've only been to his chat room a handful of times but he has never asked anyone for money or tried to sell anyone anything when I've been there. He also didn't understand what was wrong with his posts from 2015 because he never promoted the other chat room and actually said some negative things about it. Apparently, someone thought he was a 48yr old so he showed his drivers license and college ID to prove that he is who he says he is.

I found it interesting that about a week ago, he asked for feedback on the room no matter if it was good, bad or ugly and everyone had only good things to say. Then as soon as he gets accused of something, basically the whole forum switched directions and jumped all over him when nothing has changed.

He was very positive towards Mike and futures.io and even asked everyone not to be mad at Mike and wanted to keep things civil. I do understand that there are a lot of snake oil salesmen in this industry and that you have to be on the lookout for these people constantly but with all due respect, I think you guys may have got it wrong on this one.

I concur, it was a bit hard listening to him, his voice was breaking.

Still not sure why he was allowed to run a room when it was obvious from his website (in his profile) that it was geared towards educating. Though it stipulated it was free, that's clearly BS, every single page was about mentoring/educating. It was a matter of time/or private messages. If the room wasn't allowed from start he would still be contributing here.

And second, why not hear the person out? He stipulated many times that if the room compromises this forum then he would close it down immediately. Perhaps because he lied? Which I can understand, but would still like to hear what he has to say.

Oh well.



Sent using the futures.io mobile app

The following user says Thank You to DaxyMcDaxFace for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #541 (permalink)
 sagor 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: YM
 
Posts: 83 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 193 given, 126 received

I voted to keep ban.

1. The fact that he was heavily promoting it outside of FIO. If he was giving back to community, then why promote outside of FIO? Unless his objective is to get as many people as possible into his room.
2. I read through his original journal in elite section. He blew his combine. He started another one (150K), started good, then seems like got almost to blowing it up, and after that he stopped posting into journal. Three month later he is consistently profitable and apparently funded with TST. With no proof to show. Kind of weird. I would expect him at least posting into journal regarding getting funded, it should have been super exciting news to share in his journal.
3. All the other posts by other members here showing more controversy.

Way too many questions. It is very fishy.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 10 users say Thank You to sagor for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #542 (permalink)
 DaxyMcDaxFace 
London
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts
Broker: CQG
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 578 since May 2016
Thanks: 1,065 given, 444 received


jdox View Post
How is that promotional? And didn't he say on the recording that those posts were before they asked him to be a moderator?

Yes, he joined them 8 months after, allegedly.

He slates them in one post. Not sure the issue with these posts tbh, it's before he was affiliated to them and one is very very negative about GTR, admitting he got 'suckered in'.



Sent using the futures.io mobile app

The following user says Thank You to DaxyMcDaxFace for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #543 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012


wldman View Post
@rwbil that is harsh man.

True enough that ANYONE that believes someone else will turn them into a successful ANYTHING is doomed.

True enough that FOOLS lose lots of money. Without the fools all of us that have provided a consistent, ongoing and often lucrative standard of living from speculation or trading would have to find some other vocation.

There was a way in the works for live trading orders and confirmations to populate a thread here at fio. What ever happened to that? I do agree that ANY broadcast of any type of trade is highly suspect without such seamless and systemic verification. Corollary to that you have some set of balls to demand like you do that @Big Mike do anything, especially force someone to turn over trade confirms and statements.

There were periods where I simply stopped posting at BMT because I was not going to divide time to answer detractors. What could I possibly gain from making shit up and taking the time to post it. I was not going to copy and redact statements and confirms because someone thought I got a boner from lying in an internet forum. If you don't believe what someone says state your difference and wait for a reply, if no adequate common understanding comes, stop reading that person, simple.

Here is the biggest fraud: if the kid @rocksolid68 posted seamless trade confirms that validated claims he has never made...say right 80%, winners 3:1 larger than losers and 10-15 trades of 10 contracts per day...how many forum participants would subscribe at even $1,000 a month?

I've seen information, guidance, indicators etcetera literally worth millions of dollars posted here for free, I've also seen tons of useless bullshit for sale at hilarious prices. Retain what is valuable, discard without harm what is not valuable, again simple. I'm sorry if the learning curve is too steep or too expensive for many of the hopium addicted dreamers. Take a chance and click the button, or don't, but be responsible for yourself. You are among alpha predators in the most competitive vocation on Earth.

Mike has gone to great lengths to maintain a terrific forum.


It never ceases to amaze me how asking for actual proof of claims in the day trading business is an "EVIL". No other business operates this way. And lets say the regulators finally decided to regulate this industry. What do you think the first thing they will ask for; Brokerage Statement for proof.

And to top it all off this kid was associated with Global Trading Room. If that does not say something I do not know what does.

As for BM. He is providing a forum for these vendors. Let me ask you do you think NT should be held responsible for the people they let promote without checking any credentials what so ever. I do and I hope the regulators finally crack down and we will see. I have NO doubt BM knows Al Brooks and these other Micro Scalpers are scammers, yet he gives them credibility by allowing then to put on webinars. In fact he once called out the Rock Star Journals, which were all fake.

With Emmett's site the truth is finally being told about these scammers and the regulators are finally closing them down like Open Range Trader who posted all fake results. And sadly he was not the exception in this business.

If someone thinks some 18 year old kid who shows no proof of trading profitable is going to teach someone to scalp ES profitable, then they are the fool born every minute.

 
(login for full post details)
  #544 (permalink)
 Massive l 
Legendary Market Wizard
Portland, OR
 
Experience: None
 
Massive l's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,012 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 1,698 given, 4,191 received

I can't judge one way or the other because I have no clue what happened. I will say that those types of intro posts show a lack of experience. He is young though and I was there at one point as well. Best of luck either way.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 3 users say Thank You to Massive l for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #545 (permalink)
 TheTradeSlinger 
Huntington WV
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: ES, CL
 
TheTradeSlinger's Avatar
 
Posts: 430 since Jun 2015
Thanks: 714 given, 589 received

Mind-blowing that @Big Mike would even allow a vote on this whole charade.

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 7 users say Thank You to TheTradeSlinger for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #546 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,014 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,474 given, 98,315 received


rwbil View Post
As for BM. He is providing a forum for these vendors. Let me ask you do you think NT should be held responsible for the people they let promote without checking any credentials what so ever. I do and I hope the regulators finally crack down and we will see. I have NO doubt BM knows Al Brooks and these other Micro Scalpers are scammers, yet he gives them credibility by allowing then to put on webinars. In fact he once called out the Rock Star Journals, which were all fake.

Uhm, no. Seriously? If I knew someone was a scammer, WTF would I allow them to be associated with the site? To me, this implies that you think very little of me and have no respect for my decisions, and/or strongly dislike what our community works so hard to do. Please clarify your statement if I am wrong.

Since you named Al Brooks specifically, then I will respond and say that just because I don't personally agree with Al's trading methodology does not mean that I think he is running a scam. I do my best to provide a range of content to our members, and that includes content I don't always agree with (for example: scalping is extremely popular, despite me strongly advocating against it).

Like with any vendor, all members of our community are encourage to post feedback in the Vendor Review section about their experiences, including experiences with people that give webinars on FIO. I hope you would realize that if a lot of people start showing proof that someone that gives a webinar on FIO is a scam, that I would no longer invite them back to the site. In addition, I always create a discussion thread for each webinar event and ask for feedback so that members can tell me what they thought. This feedback is used to decide future events and whether or not a presenter is invited to return.

In the past, I have removed webinar content after-the-fact from a vendor that I felt was running a scam, and I did everything I could to distance FIO from them (this was many, many years ago and that vendor was banned). Unfortunately, this was very early days of the forum and my "spidey sense" was still developing, so I got caught up with someone I shouldn't have.

There are one or two other examples where guest speakers will NOT be invited back to do webinars because I strongly disliked how they conducted themselves in the webinar (for example: strong selling to our members, despite being told in advance our strict rules against such things).

I don't recall what the "Rock Star Journals" are, but suffice it to say that yes -- I have uncovered many stealth vendors in the 7 years of running the site, and banned all of them I am aware of.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 14 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #547 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,856 received

NOT typed in an Obama voice.

@rwbil

In rethinking my post that you referenced I want to be clear and say that I do not think it is unreasonable at all to expect or require verification in a situation where somebody is selling something. Audit able track record is an industry standard.

I meant that to require it in a collegial non commercial setting, for me, is a step too far. BUT I do understand that there may be folks that need some type of protection or warning.

That said, there was a thread and associated effort here, I thought, by which some device was created that would allow automatic posting to a thread of orders and executions in real time. Do I have that wrong? If such a thing existed, only guys that KNEW they were excellent traders would even consider it. Again, the only likely reason for even those guys would be to convince a following to send in money. Here is the disconnect for me personally...ANYONE banging out consistent profits, even at a low level makes way way more from that than they could from simply selling trade indications. In some cases where you have the brokerage and get a kick back on the clearing and the deposit credits to firm net liquidation I guess you could get close to maybe being in a situation where selling trade indications was worth the time.

Again, from my experience there are pundits and there are players. Pundits are engaged in the "bullshit game" that is to say selling or telling. Players are the folks that actually get to the doing and excel in a measurable, meaningful and consistent way. If you can not tell the difference, learn to. If you can tell the difference, you know where you stand and what you need to do next.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 4 users say Thank You to wldman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #548 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,014 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,474 given, 98,315 received


rwbil View Post
I have NO doubt BM knows Al Brooks and these other Micro Scalpers are scammers

BTW, FuturesTrader71 is a scalper as far as I know -- are you lumping him in there? I don't agree with his methodology personally, but I doubt you would question his credibility in the industry. He and I have had friendly unscripted/live discussions in past events that discuss our differences in methodology.

Just because I think that most traders should not scalp doesn't mean that I think FT71 is a scam, nor does it mean that it is a bad decision to bring FT71 onto the site. I believe most users on the site would agree they've learned from his past events and found them beneficial.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 17 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #549 (permalink)
 sharmas 
Auckland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker: Zen-Fire
Trading: CL and ES
 
Posts: 764 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 3,793 given, 735 received

A lot has been said and discussed.

Lets leave where things are and allow @Big Mike to come to a conclusion and we all agree to disagree.

So much discussion and taking people away from their real work.

my 5 cents worth before the election on Wednesday.


Sharmas

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following user says Thank You to sharmas for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #550 (permalink)
 Inletcap 
Murrells Inlet SC
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Trading: ES, CL, ETFs
 
Inletcap's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,158 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 9,765 given, 25,979 received


rwbil View Post
It never ceases to amaze me how asking for actual proof of claims in the day trading business is an "EVIL". No other business operates this way. And lets say the regulators finally decided to regulate this industry. What do you think the first thing they will ask for; Brokerage Statement for proof.

And to top it all off this kid was associated with Global Trading Room. If that does not say something I do not know what does.

As for BM. He is providing a forum for these vendors. Let me ask you do you think NT should be held responsible for the people they let promote without checking any credentials what so ever. I do and I hope the regulators finally crack down and we will see. I have NO doubt BM knows Al Brooks and these other Micro Scalpers are scammers, yet he gives them credibility by allowing then to put on webinars. In fact he once called out the Rock Star Journals, which were all fake.

With Emmett's site the truth is finally being told about these scammers and the regulators are finally closing them down like Open Range Trader who posted all fake results. And sadly he was not the exception in this business.

If someone thinks some 18 year old kid who shows no proof of trading profitable is going to teach someone to scalp ES profitable, then they are the fool born every minute.

Oh man, I sincerely hope you don't feel this way about @Big Mike and our community. I feel we have the finest place to come together on the web and Mike is charged with doing what he can to share his opinions yet be open minded to others strategies and ideas. This is what brings us all together and his policing is done to help keep us safe. I wouldn't want the job. Mike has demonstrated that he's a stand up guy with strong morales who has to draw a line in the sand that's often subjective- his efforts give us what we have here and I am very appreciative.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
(login for full post details)
  #551 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012


Big Mike View Post
Uhm, no. Seriously? If I knew someone was a scammer, WTF would I allow them to be associated with the site? To me, this implies that you think very little of me and have no respect for my decisions, and/or strongly dislike what our community works so hard to do. Please clarify your statement if I am wrong.

Since you named Al Brooks specifically, then I will respond and say that just because I don't personally agree with Al's trading methodology does not mean that I think he is running a scam. I do my best to provide a range of content to our members, and that includes content I don't always agree with (for example: scalping is extremely popular, despite me strongly advocating against it).

Like with any vendor, all members of our community are encourage to post feedback in the Vendor Review section about their experiences, including experiences with people that give webinars on FIO. I hope you would realize that if a lot of people start showing proof that someone that gives a webinar on FIO is a scam, that I would no longer invite them back to the site. In addition, I always create a discussion thread for each webinar event and ask for feedback so that members can tell me what they thought. This feedback is used to decide future events and whether or not a presenter is invited to return.

In the past, I have removed webinar content after-the-fact from a vendor that I felt was running a scam, and I did everything I could to distance FIO from them (this was many, many years ago and that vendor was banned). Unfortunately, this was very early days of the forum and my "spidey sense" was still developing, so I got caught up with someone I shouldn't have.

There are one or two other examples where guest speakers will NOT be invited back to do webinars because I strongly disliked how they conducted themselves in the webinar (for example: strong selling to our members, despite being told in advance our strict rules against such things).

I don't recall what the "Rock Star Journals" are, but suffice it to say that yes -- I have uncovered many stealth vendors in the 7 years of running the site, and banned all of them I am aware of.

Mike


Here is the problem. No one can prove a vendor is a scammer. There is no way unless you are a regulator with authority to get a judge to force them to produce their results and acquire their brokerage statements.

So yes I think there needs to be a Basic standard set and that standard is they have to show they can do what they claim. Is that seriously asking to much? Al Brooks claims to be profitable trading ES, yet has never shown a live trade or provided any proof he trades live or can trade profitable. In fact, he refused to show Emmett any proof what so ever even knowing he was going to give him a review. IHMO, it is clear to anyone with any common sense Al Brooks is a scammer and should not be allowed to do webinars without showing proof he truly scalps the ES market as he claims.

Now that might be an interesting poll to take. I mean do you hire a roofer that refuses to show they are licensed or ever installed a roof, but they say they are a super great roofer?

If you are going to allow Al Brook's the priveledge of promoting his system and thus his educational books without any verification what so ever he trades profitable then where does it end. Why ban anyone? What Alex is doing is far less damage than what Al is doing IMHO. By that standard anyone should be allowed to do a webinar. What is the standard. After all if proving you can actually do what you claim is not a standard then what is?

And if you highly advice against scalping, why is that if you think Al and these other scalping vendors are legit. Yet not one can show any proof of their claim. I mean not a single one.

So put up that poll. Should vendors like Al Brooks actually have to show they can trade a live account profitable? This is not a tough standard. To be it is the basic entry point standard and simple for them to show their brokerage statement. But here is the rub, they know if they put out fake statements, the regulators can then go after them and they have no real statements to show, as they are not profitable traders, but educators. I wonder if Al is even a Doctor. That is how bad this industry is. Don't believe me read Emmett's site and these Trading Rooms.

Because if a vendor can not trade their own method or software profitable, there is zero chance anyone else will be able to do it.

 
(login for full post details)
  #552 (permalink)
 tturner86 
Elite Member
Portland, Oregon
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: F-16CM-50
Trading: GBU-39
 
tturner86's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,172 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 10,456 given, 12,606 received

If you don't like Al Brooks ask him for a refund. If you have an issue with any of the webinar presenters collect your evidence and PM @Big Mike or me. Hosting the webinars I have been privy to see the amount of work Mike takes to ensure the content of this site is top notch. You have no idea the amount of time, money, or resources Mike puts into this site.

And this is my last post here.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 7 users say Thank You to tturner86 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #553 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012


tturner86 View Post
If you don't like Al Brooks ask him for a refund. If you have an issue with any of the webinar presenters collect your evidence and PM @Big Mike or me. Hosting the webinars I have been privy to see the amount of work Mike takes to ensure the content of this site is top notch. You have no idea the amount of time, money, or resources Mike puts into this site.

And this is my last post here.

Refund????

You seem to have missed my entire point. Do you think member want to see webinars by Actual proven profitable traders or by people who claim to be profitable. I could right now make up a trading method, write a book and say I am a profitable trader. It means nothing. Bernie Madoff did it. It means NOTHING. Do you not understand that. If not I cannot help you see the light.

And as I stated no one can prove a vendor is a scammer, they have to prove they are legit as any business does. The best you can do is ask for brokerage statement and when they refuse that tells you all that you need to know. And that has already been done

http://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/al-brooks-trading/


And BTW, I use Al Brooks as just an example as he is one of the top webinars on here. But it applies to all. So TTturner what exactly is your standard??????????????


Again put of the poll. Would you rather watch webinars by proven profitable traders or by educators that claim they can trade profitable, yet refuse to show any proof. According you you TTurner, the latter will take the win.

 
(login for full post details)
  #554 (permalink)
 SoftSoap 
Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: InteractiveBrokers
Trading: NQ
 
SoftSoap's Avatar
 
Posts: 594 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 347 given, 1,222 received

To be clear, I never attended his room but I did hear his side of the story (or at least most of it).

I wasn't going to say anything in this thread as I honestly liked rocksolid68, but I think @Big Mike might be making the wrong decision by letting the community decide whether or not to unban.

One of the things that makes FIO such a great community are the rules that are in place to protect its members. Those rules aren't always popular, and that's proven to be the case in this thread.

We don't all like the rules, but look at the other trading communities and you'll understand why they are so important.

I think we should all respect the decision that Big Mike made on this topic and move on for now.

If he is a young, highly profitable trader who wants to help others, this ban won't stop him from doing any of that. And he will be here in a year or so. Then Big Mike can make a decision on whether or not to revoke his ban. Let time prove who he really is.

Regarding the whole profitability question. Rocksolid68 mentioned that he wasn't going to post his statements because it wouldn't benefit him in any way, and people would think it's photoshopped, etc.

Are there not third party neutral sites that can verify results? Isn't that the purpose of FundSeeder? Can someone enlighten me on why it's not as easy as hooking your broker up to FundSeeder, and linking your FundSeeder profile to prove that you are indeed a profitable trader?

Yesterday's excellence is today's standard and tomorrow's mediocrity
Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 4 users say Thank You to SoftSoap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #555 (permalink)
 fourtiwinks 
Singapore
 
Experience: Beginner
 
Posts: 206 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 479 given, 201 received

Guys, let's not reduce this thread into an argumentative one.


Neo1 View Post
The Kid is "18", been trading for 2-3 years. Hardly the credentials for running a trade room.

The writing style in his posts portrays someone much older than 18.

Either way, something is off.

Just my 2cents.

As Neo1 stated above, whatever it was "something is off".

Alex should have come clean about his initiatives, so he would not have to be banned in the first place.



kevinkdog View Post
My motto in the Internet age is: "verify, then trust."

That makes me a cynical middle aged skeptic, but it has saved my skin many a time.

We're all adults, so it is up to us to make our own judgement calls or adopt a practical one, as mentioned by kevinkdog.


Having another poll or other forms of "safe-guards", as suggested by rwbil, won't stop a fool from parting his money again. I know coz I've been one of those fools.

These vendors will just pop up again in various forms, like weeds in a garden.

The following 4 users say Thank You to fourtiwinks for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #556 (permalink)
 hursthead 
Malaysia
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: IB
Trading: CL
 
Posts: 99 since Apr 2016
Thanks: 130 given, 219 received

I really like the way this forum is run and moderated, it is unlike other forums out there. Credit goes to @Big Mike for keeping it the way it is and enforcing the rules.

Lets all be adults, respect the decision and move on. I don't know about you guys, but I'm here to learn Trading in this forum, not learn Arguing.

The following 6 users say Thank You to hursthead for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #557 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012


SoftSoap View Post
To be clear, I never attended his room but I did hear his side of the story (or at least most of it).

I wasn't going to say anything in this thread as I honestly liked rocksolid68, but I think @Big Mike might be making the wrong decision by letting the community decide whether or not to unban.

One of the things that makes FIO such a great community are the rules that are in place to protect its members. Those rules aren't always popular, and that's proven to be the case in this thread.

We don't all like the rules, but look at the other trading communities and you'll understand why they are so important.

I think we should all respect the decision that Big Mike made on this topic and move on for now.

If he is a young, highly profitable trader who wants to help others, this ban won't stop him from doing any of that. And he will be here in a year or so. Then Big Mike can make a decision on whether or not to revoke his ban. Let time prove who he really is.

Regarding the whole profitability question. Rocksolid68 mentioned that he wasn't going to post his statements because it wouldn't benefit him in any way, and people would think it's photoshopped, etc.

Are there not third party neutral sites that can verify results? Isn't that the purpose of FundSeeder? Can someone enlighten me on why it's not as easy as hooking your broker up to FundSeeder, and linking your FundSeeder profile to prove that you are indeed a profitable trader?


You are right anyone can fake statement, but the minute you do that it opens you up to fraud like happened to Open Range Trader. A better solution is just show your brokerage account and the trades taken that day live right in the room. Just hide your account number. No personal information is given out and not very hard to do. Now that can also be faked but much more effort to do such.


BTW what happened to the poll. I no longer see it.

 
(login for full post details)
  #558 (permalink)
 sagor 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: YM
 
Posts: 83 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 193 given, 126 received


rwbil View Post
BTW what happened to the poll. I no longer see it.

Still there, on page 50.
Currently it is split exactly 50\50.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
(login for full post details)
  #559 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,014 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,474 given, 98,315 received


rwbil View Post
BTW what happened to the poll. I no longer see it.

Polls are randomly shown on the page, along side other content such as our Twitter feed. It is not missing.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
(login for full post details)
  #560 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,014 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,474 given, 98,315 received


rwbil View Post
You are right anyone can fake statement, but the minute you do that it opens you up to fraud like happened to Open Range Trader. A better solution is just show your brokerage account and the trades taken that day live right in the room. Just hide your account number. No personal information is given out and not very hard to do. Now that can also be faked but much more effort to do such.

I had a very long post all written out. Then I realized, there is no point. Some people get it, some do not, and I've tried my best to explain it before already (just read my thread).

Here is the shortest post I can make: stop chasing vendors of any kind, and in the process of doing that, stop obsessing over brokerage statements. And when you say no one posts statements - remember who you are talking to, the guy that posted them every day for months (real live cash, real-time trades).

Please take my advice if you think that I have learned anything in the 7+ years of watching people on this forum repeat the same mistakes. Stop chasing vendors!

And now, just because I spent so much time on my other post, here is a screenshot of it before it's deleted forever



Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 11 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #561 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,014 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,474 given, 98,315 received

Thank you to everyone who has shown their support.

I'm finished posting in this thread until Friday, at which point a (new) decision will be made, for better or worse.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 17 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #562 (permalink)
 lovetotrade 
Rockledge, FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Gain Capital, OANDA
Trading: GBP
 
lovetotrade's Avatar
 
Posts: 416 since Oct 2014
Thanks: 1,058 given, 807 received

Either way, kudos to Mike for running such an awesome forum so brilliantly. Thanks for being involved in the discussion, it helped us see into some of the thoughts and decision making that made this site what it is today. Agree or disagree you deserve the respect.

As for Alex, I visited the room a few times and let it run in the background while I went about my business. He seemed knowledgeable and sincere in his desire to help others. To offer something for free(even if it is temporary) that provides value to others is commendable. So I wish him all the best.

Hopefully everyone has learned something from this experience.


Sent from my iPad using futures.io futures trading

Rule number one in the markets is to never lose money. Well since that isn't realistic, I say if you're going to lose some money anyway then lose small, but when you win, give it all you've got and win big!
Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 7 users say Thank You to lovetotrade for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #563 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012


Big Mike View Post
I had a very long post all written out. Then I realized, there is no point. Some people get it, some do not, and I've tried my best to explain it before already (just read my thread).

Here is the shortest post I can make: stop chasing vendors of any kind, and in the process of doing that, stop obsessing over brokerage statements. And when you say no one posts statements - remember who you are talking to, the guy that posted them every day for months (real live cash, real-time trades).

Please take my advice if you think that I have learned anything in the 7+ years of watching people on this forum repeat the same mistakes. Stop chasing vendors!

And now, just because I spent so much time on my other post, here is a screenshot of it before it's deleted forever



Mike

Sorry BM but had to reply. I have not chased vendors for quite some time, not since I realized 99% of them can not trade profitable and are scammers. I never talked about chasing vendors. The fact that you say don't chase vendors has to point to the fact that you know what I am saying is Right on the Mark. My point is not about chasing vendors but about not allowing unvetted unverified vendors the ability to promote their goods via this site. That is my one and only point.

As for obsessed over brokerage statement. I guaranty you that is what the regulators will be obsessed with if this business ever gets regulated. Brokerage Statement, though as I pointed out can be faked, is the best way to see proof one can trade profitable. Best if they be seen live as I stated. And showing fake brokerage statements is one way to get the regulators to investigate you. I know of no better way to vet a vendor, maybe someone else knows a better way to see actual proof of their claims. I wonder if Bernie Madoff told his clients, "Don't be obsessed over seeing proof I actually am investing your money." Sorry, but again I must disagree with you. Proof is the only thing that matters. Anything else is meaningless.

Again just amazing how people accept vendors without any proof what so ever of their claims.

And I know many many members agree with my points and apparently are afraid to stand up and say so.

"And when you say no one posts statements - remember who you are talking to, the guy that posted them every day for months (real live cash, real-time trades)."

Lots of people take live trades. My point, maybe misunderstood, was about vendors selling their system or software. Especially ones telling you they profitable scalp ES on a 5 Minute chart and show no proof what so ever of their claims. That is my one and only point.

 
(login for full post details)
  #564 (permalink)
 ratfink 
Birmingham UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: TST/Rithmic
Trading: YM/Gold
 
ratfink's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,651 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 17,422 given, 8,403 received


rwbil View Post
My point, maybe misunderstood, was about vendors selling their system or software. Especially ones telling you they profitable scalp ES on a 5 Minute chart and show no proof what so ever of their claims. That is my one and only point.

I agree with your point, many do, it would be great if it was that easy.

There are so many problems with proof of proof that it becomes the next level joke. Plus traders have runs of luck, funds have runs of luck, how many days/weeks/months do they have to show profit, is it continuous/every day/every week. What about different styles of trading.

And look at the car industry as a great regulated example of giving 'proof' - consumption figures and emissions standards !!!!! <- deliberate overuse here.

At the end of the day there is only one way, learning to become responsible for ourselves and our own good and bad decisions and then moving on.

Cheers

Travel Well
Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 9 users say Thank You to ratfink for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #565 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,459 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 48,936 given, 21,596 received

I am a strong @Big Mike partisan. I have seen his intense efforts to keep this forum clean over a span of many years, and my hat's off to him.

There is no practicality in demanding "proof" of anything. We have seen extremely clever and effective faking over the years, in statements and even videos of supposed trades. Because of the obvious motive, vendors will give anything a try, and often will be believed.

Ironically, @Big Mike published several months of real-time results, with daily broker confirmations and monthly statements, and was not believed by some, even though he is a known quantity here, with no financial ax to grind.

As to how decisions should be made, I am OK with Mike's judgment and experience. I do know that he is open to reconsidering his decisions based on evidence, and have seen him do it. (He's doing it now.) I also think he is right most of the time, and someone does have to decide, one way or the other.

I am a little sorry now that this present question has been put to vote. I agree that the situation has some complexity, and there may be circumstances that need to be weighed. I made my vote, and I am unsure if I was right or wrong -- which is the problem. This probably should not be put to the membership, because of the possibility of uninformed voting, both pro and con, and the simple fact that our instincts have not been sharpened by years of being on the job of keeping the forum safe. It is too likely that votes will be made based on emotional or other reasons, being for or against Alex on fairly weak grounds, instead of experienced consideration. Of course, many, probably most, will do their honest best to get it right.

I'll accept the poll outcome, on the hope that the community's judgment will turn out to be right. I do hope that this is the last such experiment, however. I'll take Mike's judgment and fundamental fairness over a membership poll any day.

With all that said, since it has been put to vote, anyone who does have a view should register it, so the odds of a good decision are increased by the additional participation.

Bob.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 10 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #566 (permalink)
 2tenor 
Tampere, Finland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Saxobank, Sierra Chart
Trading: DAX futures
 
Posts: 51 since Dec 2015
Thanks: 9 given, 42 received

< content deleted, wrong thread, I will continue in my own journal>

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following user says Thank You to 2tenor for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #567 (permalink)
 Ceerock81 
Rutherford,NJ
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, CL
 
Ceerock81's Avatar
 
Posts: 112 since Sep 2016
Thanks: 353 given, 196 received

I tried to stay away from this subject for many reasons; mainly because i'm new to this forum and I don't know any of you.
Partly because I've defended people before and have been wrong. Personally, I liked @rocksolid68, he was very helpful and didn't seem bothered when I asked him for help. I've been to his TR and he has only spoken highly of this forum and of his many mentors, you all know who you are. I know you mentors feel let down or betrayed; get past it....Everyone will have an opinion on this, because as the saying goes "opinions are like A#*holes.. everybody has one".

The ban was , in my opinion, a bit overzealous. A man was hung but no trial was held.You all speak of @BIGMIKE doing a great job running this site. Then trust that if he wants to have a vote then he has thought long and hard about this and is doing it for the good of FIO. If BM sees a benefit from possibly unbanning him, then accept it.

I will say this though, read my so called journal :



I would be a prime sucker to be approached by a vendor for monetary compensation for a TR or an Indicator or some sort of "Holy Grail"... I suck @ trading and it's all over all my posts, but yet I was never asked for anything.

Again, let me clarify that I am not defending anyone. I just believe in second chances. I was once given a second chance and have made up for my mistakes and learned my lesson, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

As @ratfink put it "At the end of the day there is only one way, learning to become responsible for ourselves and our own good and bad decisions and then moving on"

Also @chipps1983 "Remember, you have to find your own path. a trading room will not make you a better trader".

"It's not about being right or wrong, it's about how much money you make when you're right, and how much you don't lose when you're wrong"
Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 5 users say Thank You to Ceerock81 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #568 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,459 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 48,936 given, 21,596 received


2tenor View Post
Hi Folks!

I am not very active here, nor have I followed this thread, but noticed that the thread is very active;
May be I introduce myself & my method here, if

1) it would help somebody
2) I got good comments from you folks ...

FYI, this is someone else's personal trading journal. It is active because of an issue that is currently being discussed. Before that, it was active because of his trading posts.

You should start your own journal, and post your trades there, not in this thread.

I don't mean to be discouraging, but that is correct forum etiquette and politeness. It's easy to start a journal and get some interest in your trading there. This is not the right place.

Bob.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 2 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #569 (permalink)
 2tenor 
Tampere, Finland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Saxobank, Sierra Chart
Trading: DAX futures
 
Posts: 51 since Dec 2015
Thanks: 9 given, 42 received

< content deleted, wrong thread >

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following user says Thank You to 2tenor for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #570 (permalink)
 jdox 
Chicago, Illinois
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 78 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 776 given, 62 received


bobwest View Post

I am a little sorry now that this present question has been put to vote. I agree that the situation has some complexity, and there may be circumstances that need to be weighed. I made my vote, and I am unsure if I was right or wrong -- which is the problem. This probably should not be put to the membership, because of the possibility of uninformed voting, both pro and con, and the simple fact that our instincts have not been sharpened by years of being on the job of keeping the forum safe. It is too likely that votes will be made based on emotional or other reasons, being for or against Alex on fairly weak grounds, instead of experienced consideration.

Agree 100%. After reading a lot of these posts, it's apparent that many people don't have all the facts or have the facts misunderstood.

I also noticed that yesterday, the poll was staying pretty consintent right around 60/40 in favor of lifting the ban. Then rather quickly, it swung to 48/52 in favor of keeping the ban. Is there any chance that someone is making fake accounts to alter the vote? Or are new members prevented from voting? Just curious because it seems odd that it changed so abruptly.

 
(login for full post details)
  #571 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,459 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 48,936 given, 21,596 received


2tenor View Post
Hi Bobwest,

Sorry about disturbing,
and OK, I already have an own trading journal since almost a year,



< edit: should I delete my previous post, or is it OK? >

It's not my call, of course, to say what you should do. I just wanted to point out something you may not have understood.

You should do what you think is right.... but I would think it was right to delete it, if it were mine. But I have no authority on this, that's up to the moderators, and I am certainly not one.

Just my opinion, do as you think best. And I do wish you good luck in your trading and in your journal. I may pop by to see what's happening there.

Bob.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 2 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #572 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,459 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 48,936 given, 21,596 received


jdox View Post
Agree 100%. After reading a lot of these posts, it's apparent that many people don't have all the facts or have the facts misunderstood.

I also noticed that yesterday, the poll was staying pretty consintent right around 60/40 in favor of lifting the ban. Then rather quickly, it swung to 48/52 in favor of keeping the ban. Is there any chance that someone is making fake accounts to alter the vote? Or are new members prevented from voting? Just curious because it seems odd that it changed so abruptly.

@Big Mike and @sam028 are very alert to duplicate accounts, and stamp them out quickly (you can tell from the computer's IP address.) And Mike is not preventing anyone from voting to skew the results or anything.

The vote is changing because there are many opinions, that's all. The fact that different people have a different view of what the facts are, or what they mean, is the point to the voting.

Let it go on to its conclusion now.

Bob.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 2 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #573 (permalink)
 Hulk 
Texas, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT Pro, Custom
Broker: dxFeed
Trading: Futures, Spreads
 
Hulk's Avatar
 
Posts: 249 since May 2014
Thanks: 596 given, 669 received


Big Mike View Post

stop chasing vendors of any kind

Mike

If I had the control or power to do this, I would have this embedded in everyone's subconsciousness. You cannot make money trading by "following" some vendor. Just cannot, cannot, cannot.

No one shares their primary money making system - NO ONE! I will never be convinced that someone, out of the goodness of his heart or "to give back to the community" is sharing his edge. This is THE most competitive business in the world folks. People just do not share their edge. That's the truth.

When you go work for a hedge fund, even as a short-term consulting gig, the first thing you sign is a non-disclosure, non-compete agreement. Why do you think that is the case?

I second BM's advice: stop chasing vendors of any kind. Please.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 11 users say Thank You to Hulk for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #574 (permalink)
 trade888 
Vancouver + Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra
Trading: CL UB ES
 
Posts: 131 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 859 given, 110 received

I think the main thrust of the forum is to assist each other in finding our own individual way to be a successful trader.
I agree that there is no right way to trade.
There are many different ways to be a successful trader.
There are also many ways to fail.
This forum provides several options for members to learn, discuss and share.
Having a room where members can discuss ideas and ask for suggestions is an option which is worth while.
There is obviously a demand amongst the membership for a room venue.
I would suggest the following option:

Lets have a cooperative room which is for learning, discussing and sharing ideas.
This would not be a signal calling room but certainly a place to discuss what each member is seeing and thinking of doing.
If the cost of a room for 500 members is $250 per month (and less if the room was smaller); I would be willing to pay for a months cost.
If there were 10 other people willing to pay $250 a year then there would be no need to sell indicators or charge for the room. (I have suggested this to Alex and he has agreed to the idea of sharing the room)
The room would be free.
The room would be run by a committee of moderators.
There would be no one person in control who could change to a charge for access.

I suggest there be a schedule of moderators.
We would see and hear different approaches to trading.
The burden of moderating would be shared to lessen the load.

I have been a part time moderator in a previous (free) room and suspect there are others who would share their thoughts.

I think a live room is a valuable addition to the exchange of ideas.
Lets take this idea and make it work.

Are there 10 others who would share the cost (assuming $250) and 3 or more people who would be willing to moderate for an hour at a time.
Try it for a year and see if it goes.

Thoughts?

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 2 users say Thank You to trade888 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #575 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012


ratfink View Post
I agree with your point, many do, it would be great if it was that easy.

There are so many problems with proof of proof that it becomes the next level joke. Plus traders have runs of luck, funds have runs of luck, how many days/weeks/months do they have to show profit, is it continuous/every day/every week. What about different styles of trading.

And look at the car industry as a great regulated example of giving 'proof' - consumption figures and emissions standards !!!!! <- deliberate overuse here.

At the end of the day there is only one way, learning to become responsible for ourselves and our own good and bad decisions and then moving on.

Cheers

You are right, they can fake their statements. Two points.
.
1) Showing their brokerage statements would be the minimum standard. It would have to be over a reasonable period including draw downs and all. If they cannot even do that then Pass.

2) 99% of these Trading Room can not show anything. They never trade live!!!! Emmett will ask these con artist to show 3 months of brokerage statements and they can not do it and then he ask them to show 1 month and they cannot even do that. Heck I remember him asking one Trading Room if they could even show a single day they traded live and they could not even do that. This industry is so corrupt, most of these Trading Room would not be able to show any proof of profitable trading even over a short period where they might have lucked out. This minimum filter, which as you pointed out should be easy to met, they cannot. As most are out and out frauds that never trade a live account. That is how sad it is.

 
(login for full post details)
  #576 (permalink)
 sagor 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: YM
 
Posts: 83 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 193 given, 126 received


rwbil View Post
You are right, they can fake their statements. Two points.
.
1) Showing their brokerage statements would be the minimum standard. It would have to be over a reasonable period including draw downs and all. If they cannot even do that then Pass.

2) 99% of these Trading Room can not show anything. They never trade live!!!! Emmett will ask these con artist to show 3 months of brokerage statements and they can not do it and then he ask them to show 1 month and they cannot even do that. Heck I remember him asking one Trading Room if they could even show a single day they traded live and they could not even do that. This industry is so corrupt, most of these Trading Room would not be able to show any proof of profitable trading even over a short period where they might have lucked out. This minimum filter, which as you pointed out should be easy to met, they cannot. As most are out and out frauds that never trade a live account. That is how sad it is.

I think they do not show statements, even fake ones, because IF they were to show fake statements, they would be prosecuted by SEC then. But until then, there is nothing really they can do about them. At least right now I think.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
(login for full post details)
  #577 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012


bobwest View Post

Ironically, @Big Mike published several months of real-time results, with daily broker confirmations and monthly statements, and was not believed by some, even though he is a known quantity here, with no financial ax to grind.



Bob.

I have been a member for years and do not remember that. I remember his footprint thread with general discussions and an occasional DOM, but showing proof of live trades backed by daily brokerage statements. I am not doubting it, just do not remember it. Please do not post, "How dare you question ....." Can you send me a link.

Now saying that I know many successful traders, but not one that is a vendor. And that is my whole point there needs to be a minimum standard and I am talking bare minimum standard that they show proof of their claims. I still cannot believe how no one ask for that and when you do you are the "BAD" person. How dare you question my integrity. I do not need to prove anything. And so forth and so forth. Pure Con Artist Responses.

 
(login for full post details)
  #578 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012


bobwest View Post
I am a strong @Big Mike partisan. I have seen his intense efforts to keep this forum clean over a span of many years, and my hat's off to him.

There is no practicality in demanding "proof" of anything. We have seen extremely clever and effective faking over the years, in statements and even videos of supposed trades. Because of the obvious motive, vendors will give anything a try, and often will be believed.

Ironically, @Big Mike published several months of real-time results, with daily broker confirmations and monthly statements, and was not believed by some, even though he is a known quantity here, with no financial ax to grind.

As to how decisions should be made, I am OK with Mike's judgment and experience. I do know that he is open to reconsidering his decisions based on evidence, and have seen him do it. (He's doing it now.) I also think he is right most of the time, and someone does have to decide, one way or the other.

I am a little sorry now that this present question has been put to vote. I agree that the situation has some complexity, and there may be circumstances that need to be weighed. I made my vote, and I am unsure if I was right or wrong -- which is the problem. This probably should not be put to the membership, because of the possibility of uninformed voting, both pro and con, and the simple fact that our instincts have not been sharpened by years of being on the job of keeping the forum safe. It is too likely that votes will be made based on emotional or other reasons, being for or against Alex on fairly weak grounds, instead of experienced consideration. Of course, many, probably most, will do their honest best to get it right.

I'll accept the poll outcome, on the hope that the community's judgment will turn out to be right. I do hope that this is the last such experiment, however. I'll take Mike's judgment and fundamental fairness over a membership poll any day.

With all that said, since it has been put to vote, anyone who does have a view should register it, so the odds of a good decision are increased by the additional participation.

Bob.


sagor View Post
I think they do not show statements, even fake ones, because IF they were to show fake statements, they would be prosecuted by SEC then. But until then, there is nothing really they can do about them. At least right now I think.


Regulators are not prosecuting folks for showing genuine brokerage statements as long as they are not doing something fraudulent like showing a fake track record over 3 months and stating this is their performance and only showing winning statement and none of the losers. They prosecute for committing fraud. One of the scams these guys use is to say they cannot show statements because of the regulators. That is con artist talk. The first thing the regulators will want to see are brokerage statements. Fraud is what is illegal. Open honest transparency is what is desired.

 
(login for full post details)
  #579 (permalink)
 sagor 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: YM
 
Posts: 83 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 193 given, 126 received


rwbil View Post
You can not be prosecuted for showing genuine brokerage statements as long as you are not doing something fraudulent like showing a fake track record over 3 months and stating this is his performance and only showing winning statement and none of the losers. They prosecute for committing fraud. One of the scams these guys use is to say they cannot show statements because of the regulators. That is con artist talk. The first thing the regulators will want to see are brokerage statements. Fraud is what is illegal. Open honest transparency is what is desired.

Exactly my point!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
 
(login for full post details)
  #580 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012


sagor View Post
Exactly my point!

I was just expanding on it, no offense meant. I just see these scammer using this as an excuse why they can not show legit brokerage statement.

 
(login for full post details)
  #581 (permalink)
 KBH80 
Denver, CO
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: CQG
Trading: ES, Tbonds
 
Posts: 25 since May 2016
Thanks: 666 given, 44 received

I've looked at this from a variety of angles and have read everything made available to me. While I can empathize with both sides, I make it a habit to leave emotion out of my decisions and go based on what's laid before me. The only thing I can gather is that someone has been banned based on an intention and perhaps some speculation surrounding internet websites. At the end of the day, I can find no real proof of acting on intentions or wrong doing at this time. I vote to unban Alex.

The following 2 users say Thank You to KBH80 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #582 (permalink)
 chr1s 
London, England
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT, TOS, MT4
Broker: TOS, CQG (NT), FXCM
Trading: ES, 6E
 
chr1s's Avatar
 
Posts: 442 since Sep 2014
Thanks: 1,713 given, 670 received

I voted to leave ban as it is - supporting @Big Mike original decision. The reasoning for that is simply I do not agree (for the first time with BM) with the notion of "referendum" like vote on this matter - ban or unban. Public does not know better, people who are experts in their fields are. I've never managed any forum, filtered vendors, been sued etc. Mike has and he has explained everything using trading analogy. Additionally I do agree with "prevention is better than cure" and Rocksolid can be unbanned in the future if/when new facts/information is available. People who want to be in the room, can still be in the room.

If we vote on who should or should not be on the FIO can we create a poll for Tiger please?
Hope Mike will just take the poll as a guidance, but will accept his decision on Friday either way

Anyway my thoughts if worth anything...
Good trades everybody (this is what we here for after all), cheers
Chris

Consistency over time
Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 4 users say Thank You to chr1s for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #583 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,459 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 48,936 given, 21,596 received


bobwest View Post
Ironically, @Big Mike published several months of real-time results, with daily broker confirmations and monthly statements, and was not believed by some, even though he is a known quantity here, with no financial ax to grind.

Bob.


rwbil View Post
I have been a member for years and do not remember that. I remember his footprint thread with general discussions and an occasional DOM, but showing proof of live trades backed by daily brokerage statements. I am not doubting it, just do not remember it. Please do not post, "How dare you question ....." Can you send me a link.

@Big Mike revived his journal thread in about Oct 2014, and was posting there and in the spoos thread for several months thereafter.

Posting of results including brokerage statements began somewhat later, I believe near the end of 2014. The entire effort continued into March or possibly April 2015 as I recall.

You can browse around through the thread, as well as the spoos thread, during those time periods.

It was an amazing performance, lasting months. I think this is one of the later statements posted -- although it may have gone on for longer:

I won't dig further, but anyone interested can start there and go earlier and later, and in the spoos thread around the same time period, to get an idea of the whole of it.

It didn't do him any good, of course. Doubters doubt, haters hate. There can never be actual proof, because the image editing tools available to everyone today make faking anything easy. So you just have to know you can trust someone for some other reason, and then you will be willing to trust their "proof." Otherwise, it's just not going to happen.

But that's another subject.

Edit: and his point was not to show off, but to make a point about a certain style, or perhaps attitude, of trading -- holding for longer moves within a day-trading timeframe. Not that it mattered....

Bob.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 9 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #584 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012


chr1s View Post
I voted to leave ban as it is - supporting @Big Mike original decision. The reasoning for that is simply I do not agree (for the first time with BM) with the notion of "referendum" like vote on this matter - ban or unban. Public does not know better, people who are experts in their fields are. I've never managed any forum, filtered vendors, been sued etc. Mike has and he has explained everything using trading analogy. Additionally I do agree with "prevention is better than cure" and Rocksolid can be unbanned in the future if/when new facts/information is available. People who want to be in the room, can still be in the room.

If we vote on who should or should not be on the FIO can we create a poll for Tiger please?
Hope Mike will just take the poll as a guidance, but will accept his decision on Friday either way

Anyway my thoughts if worth anything...
Good trades everybody (this is what we here for after all), cheers
Chris

Even though I think he should remain banned, I am not sure what is wrong with getting the opinion of your members. This is after all a member paid for site, at least the elite section is. Does that mean you have to do what members always want no, but seem reasonable to get their opinion once in awhile. Just my humble opinion and worth the price paid.

 
(login for full post details)
  #585 (permalink)
 DRock306 
Saskatchewan
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: TST / Rithmic
Trading: CL
 
Posts: 959 since Apr 2014
Thanks: 2,629 given, 1,709 received


KBH80 View Post
I've looked at this from a variety of angles and have read everything made available to me. While I can empathize with both sides, I make it a habit to leave emotion out of my decisions and go based on what's laid before me. The only thing I can gather is that someone has been banned based on an intention and perhaps some speculation surrounding internet websites. At the end of the day, I can find no real proof of acting on intentions or wrong doing at this time. I vote to unban Alex.

Pretty much my logic also, i vote to unban.
I would like to say i get why big mike did it in the 1st place and agree with bans, he is doing it to protect everyone here from the hustle of most vendors and im very grateful for it and have alot of trust with this site and big mike.

I don't feel though what has been provided is reason enough.

I would also just like to state why i visit the room, Its not to copy him or make money off his exact trades, i learned long ago that doesn't work in the long run and the long run is the main goal of trading.
He doesn't even trade what i trade, he is ES and im CL but how he enters, finds his reason to get in/ context and how he manages his trades is what im working on and is why im there
*Edited*Im trying to understand the thought process of how someone was able to come up with there idea that close suits mine, this is the reason why i also follow Inletcap, trying to learn how and see and understand how someone makes a decision and live examples helps alot compared to text and pics only.
Also its pretty darn much the same as following a thread but instead of reading you get to watch it live, that alone is a great value with better clarification when the thread maker is trying to explain something to followers.

I don't follow trade rooms because not many trade like me and also they charge or have a trick up their sleeve but i did follow this one for the reasons of the built up trust in big mike and this forum and also a genuine feel of good character towards Alex and the reasoning behind him making his website/ trade room, which was to give back to others and FIO. I feel it is still there, don't prove me wrong Alex!
Its a tough decsion @Big Mike one im glad i dont have to make.

*Edited* Also had to throw this in, If the guy starts asking me for money or i witness another being asked for money or i can clearly read/see that happening to someone or he starts promoting vendors in his room then i will gladly leave and discredit him and would expect a ban but so far i have not seen any evidence of him going that route sense he started his journal, before his webpage, if there is please present me with it so i would be able to draw a new conclusion if needed, so far in all that has been posted i could not detect any of that. There was alot of he said she said which is childish and as a adult i can't and wont take any info out of anything he/she said stuff. I would need @Big Mike to release a solid document coming from rocksolid or a known aka asking for money.
As for the vendor issue as far as i can get from those was he is young and like all of us who are/were young tend to jump the gun on promotional vendors which he stated that after the fact he knew he was wrong and left and as far from what i read hasn't made any new vendor related posts.

For his reasoning behind the room was hey i made it, i would like to show others how i made it and i hope others can find there own way by watching/reading my examples in a live room is the same if not better then a post i think. I myself concluded that the cost of the room/webpage monthly was *EDITED.. ON HIM* and his was of giving back to the community .

Once again i did read all that was provided on page 44 from big mike and there was a lot, maybe i missed a credited one but as far as i know i didn't but am open enough to admit if im wrong if shown.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 3 users say Thank You to DRock306 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #586 (permalink)
 sands 
London + UK
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Proprietary Analytics
Broker: Multiple broker + Multiple feed
Trading: Currently European and US equities
 
sands's Avatar
 
Posts: 443 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 256 given, 229 received

A temporary ban is sufficient imo given Mike felt the rules were infringed he did what he felt was right. Now a sentence is served I'd vote for keeping knowledge within the community so I've gone for a reinstatement.

Q. Do we have a temporary ban facility here (i.e., 7d or 30d ban)? I understand that some folks should just be instantly banned i.e., the new joiners that are obvious con artists or have no desire to contribute. However where its less clear-cut for you Mike, perhaps cooling-off ban facility could be useful. However that depends on if you see it as useful and how costly it would be to implement. But a suggestion none the less.

The following 7 users say Thank You to sands for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #587 (permalink)
 traderwerks 
Taipei Taiwan
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: AMP Clearing
Trading: TW
 
Posts: 693 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 434 given, 464 received

I am of two minds. His past behavior makes me suspecious so I agree with the banning, on the other hand, Alex is 18 and we have all done stupid things when we were 18 so maybe he should get a break.

I personally think he is a nice guy and I went to his room once but I decided for banning because at some point it is too easy for a free trade room to turn into a paid one.

The GoToMeeting fees are paid with real money, not goodwill. I can't put my finger on it, but something does not smell right to me, so I vote ban.

Math. A gateway drug to reality.
 
(login for full post details)
  #588 (permalink)
 DaxyMcDaxFace 
London
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts
Broker: CQG
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 578 since May 2016
Thanks: 1,065 given, 444 received


sands View Post
A temporary ban is sufficient imo given Mike felt the rules were infringed he did what he felt was right. Now a sentence is served I'd vote for keeping knowledge within the community so I've gone for a reinstatement.

Q. Do we have a temporary ban facility here (i.e., 7d or 30d ban)? I understand that some folks should just be instantly banned i.e., the new joiners that are obvious con artists or have no desire to contribute. However where its less clear-cut for you Mike, perhaps cooling-off ban facility could be useful. However that depends on if you see it as useful and how costly it would be to implement. But a suggestion none the less.

Hi

I voted keep ban.

He's a marketer. He admitted in the recorded webinar on you YouTube, then backtracked quick. A lot of evidence that his skill is in marketing, great communicator, multi marketing heavy websites, studies it, asks MLM about his wife's marketing job, changes his surname for marketing reasons (his words) etc etc.

He will leave here in 6 months max cos he can't make money trading and will want to set up another room, and his marketing strategy is redundant on FIO.

With all the evidence, no one will benefit Alex coming back. Let him move on. And us.

He's a really nice guy, very talented and will do well in whatever he wants to. Possibly even trading. His time has run here for now. I agree with a temp ban and I doubt he will be back.




Sent using the futures.io mobile app

The following 8 users say Thank You to DaxyMcDaxFace for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #589 (permalink)
 jdox 
Chicago, Illinois
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 78 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 776 given, 62 received

How about instead of prosecuting a guy for a crime he hasn't even committed, we let him stay in the community. If in the future he violates the rules, then he can be deal with the consequences. Some of you all want to hang the guy for something you think he's going to do.

 
(login for full post details)
  #590 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
Posts: 2,743 since May 2014
Thanks: 5,444 given, 8,140 received

as the old proverb goes.

If Alex or his father Chris (who is the actual member, not his son) do come back under rocksolid68 then setting up a warning/complain to website site in parallel to his zerogravity is likely to happen somehow.

I have done my background research beyond the links posted and captured all of this data for future use.

I can't post what would amount to pseudo-evidence here but I believe father and son work together closely. That is just my personal belief from what I have found out.

Edit: Just to make it clear, no offence is intended to those who want to unban, we can only know what we know.

 
(login for full post details)
  #591 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Broker: IB, ToS
Trading: /ES, US Equities/Options
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,341 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,978 given, 8,856 received

@Rory ,my hopes are dashed too. Continued excellent job @Big Mike.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following user says Thank You to wldman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #592 (permalink)
 trendisyourfriend 
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,998 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,672 given, 5,161 received


The following user says Thank You to trendisyourfriend for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #593 (permalink)
 grausch 
Luxembourg, Luxembourg
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: Stocks
 
Posts: 491 since May 2012
Thanks: 1,641 given, 1,149 received


Inletcap View Post
Seems he really moved quickly to go from a struggling trader, to passing a combine, through funded trader prep and traded enough as a funded trader to open a real brokerage with enough $$ to hold multiple GC contracts overnight along side ES and CL positions... I've been around this industry for 2 decades and I must say this is quite the turnaround.

I would say that it is not impossible but it is improbable.

I never investigated his claims of success, but I did attend his trading room twice. Seemed like a reasonable guy and before reading this thread I would have voted to unban him. However, the quoted text above makes a very convincing argument to keep the ban in place. Even if he was trading successfully for these last couple of months, then it is still quite a stretch to call this "trading for a living". Unless he had decent backing (which could be possible), there is no way he would be trading for a living after only a couple of months - that type of ROI is only possible in hindsight.

No offense meant to those who voted to unban Alex, but what is the point of learning from someone with that limited experience? @bobwest showed a link to @Big Mike's thread - I spent a lot of time going through those posts in the past and will do so again after seeing Bob's post. There was quite a lot of quality information there, but best of all, it comes from a source that I would trust.

Edit: Link to where posting in Big Mike's thread started again - .

The following 4 users say Thank You to grausch for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #594 (permalink)
 jodistrict 
san diego
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: FXCM MarketScope, NT, Interactive brokers, AMP
Broker: FXCM, Interactive Brokers
Trading: FOREX, IWM, SPY, XLE, NQ
 
Posts: 228 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 72 given, 143 received

I don't see much conflict here, because he has a website independent of futures.io, so the traders who want to join his room can do so. And it's free. If he starts charging you can just leave. The real issue here is whether Big Mike wants to lend his reputation to this enterprise.

My only experience with trading rooms was many years ago I joined EOTPRO. They claimed that they had a neural net program which chose the correct locations, and the room was designed to shadow trade. This was before I knew any better. I lost $1000 taking his exact trades. And I don't even know whether he was trading live. Probably not. The moderator was a frustrated comedian with the gift for gab. But he couldn't trade himself out of a paper sack.

I think this is the underlying characteristic of a trading room. My impression of these rooms is that the people who join them want to be entertained. The moderators have exceptional marketing ability, but are poor traders. As long as people want this, others will try to provide the services. And it appears to be profitable. For me, I prefer to trade in silence. If I want comedy I will buy Laurel and Hardy DVDs. It's much cheaper. What I saw, with the room at issue, is that he bought and doubled down against a raging bear trend from the open. A rookie mistake.

 
(login for full post details)
  #595 (permalink)
 DRock306 
Saskatchewan
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: TST / Rithmic
Trading: CL
 
Posts: 959 since Apr 2014
Thanks: 2,629 given, 1,709 received


Inletcap View Post
Oh man, I sincerely hope you don't feel this way about @Big Mike and our community. I feel we have the finest place to come together on the web and Mike is charged with doing what he can to share his opinions yet be open minded to others strategies and ideas. This is what brings us all together and his policing is done to help keep us safe. I wouldn't want the job. Mike has demonstrated that he's a stand up guy with strong morales who has to draw a line in the sand that's often subjective- his efforts give us what we have here and I am very appreciative.

Well said and handled that like a champ

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Thank you to everyone who helped me in my journal contest it all ment alot.
Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 6 users say Thank You to DRock306 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #596 (permalink)
 trademe1 
State College, Pa U.S.A.
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader,Sierra Chart
Trading: NQ CL ES
 
trademe1's Avatar
 
Posts: 54 since Aug 2014
Thanks: 587 given, 99 received


rwbil View Post
It never ceases to amaze me how asking for actual proof of claims in the day trading business is an "EVIL". No other business operates this way. And lets say the regulators finally decided to regulate this industry. What do you think the first thing they will ask for; Brokerage Statement for proof.

And to top it all off this kid was associated with Global Trading Room. If that does not say something I do not know what does.

As for BM. He is providing a forum for these vendors. Let me ask you do you think NT should be held responsible for the people they let promote without checking any credentials what so ever. I do and I hope the regulators finally crack down and we will see. I have NO doubt BM knows Al Brooks and these other Micro Scalpers are scammers, yet he gives them credibility by allowing then to put on webinars. In fact he once called out the Rock Star Journals, which were all fake.

With Emmett's site the truth is finally being told about these scammers and the regulators are finally closing them down like Open Range Trader who posted all fake results. And sadly he was not the exception in this business.

If someone thinks some 18 year old kid who shows no proof of trading profitable is going to teach someone to scalp ES profitable, then they are the fool born every minute.



Big Mike has created this forum (in my opinion) to further the trading world for the good and tries to shield traders from parasites that exist in the trading world. I sincerely believe he is helping people get and share information, techniques, advice, experiences ect.

As with anything there must to be rules to abide by and someone has to enforce the rules. Sometimes I disagree with some of the decisions, but I believe Big Mike makes the decisions by following these rules and input from the community in a fair way.

I certainly wouldn't want to have the job of policing the forum, Kudos Mike!!

The following 3 users say Thank You to trademe1 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #597 (permalink)
 rwbil 
Baltimore MD
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB, Kinetics
Trading: E6, ES and CL
 
rwbil's Avatar
 
Posts: 93 since Nov 2012


trendisyourfriend View Post

2 can play this game.

Ban Him:



Darn I was hoping the video of Moses being Banned would be embedded. How did you do that?

 
(login for full post details)
  #598 (permalink)
 tturner86 
Elite Member
Portland, Oregon
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: F-16CM-50
Trading: GBU-39
 
tturner86's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,172 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 10,456 given, 12,606 received


rwbil View Post
2 can play this game.

Ban Him:



Darn I was hoping the video of Moses being Banned would be embedded. How did you do that?


Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following user says Thank You to tturner86 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #599 (permalink)
 mmaker 
Toronto Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Trading: es
 
mmaker's Avatar
 
Posts: 389 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 1,177 given, 487 received


Rory View Post
If the camel gets his nose in the tent, his body will soon follow.

as the old proverb goes.

OMG Rory thats the funniest thing i have heard all week.

Another funny thing....how could a relative minor teach trading to others some who may have clocked years ....10,000 hours. You know...the 10k hours that makes you a better trader.

Just a side note....Alex has never seen a bad GDP report drop the ES 20 points in the blink of an eye.

He was still in grade 8 when fukushima melted. He was barely out of diapers when 9/11 happened. He missed a couple of wars and WMD announcements.

Don't you have to be experienced to teach others?

If that doesn't matter maybe we should all charge $427. Hell we have experience - we could prolly get $10,000.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal
The following 3 users say Thank You to mmaker for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #600 (permalink)
 tulanch 
Salt Lake City, UT
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SC, NT, MT
Broker: AMP
Trading: NQ ES YM Bonds
 
Posts: 250 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 49 given, 369 received

Something just does not seem right

1.) why buy gotomeeting when with a little looking around you can do it for a lot less if not free
2.) why is his picture on that teachers site?
3.) why does his dad's name keep coming up?
4.) how can someone blow two accounts and then a few months later be utterly successful?
5.) and why do I feel for him - is that some institutional group trying to manipulate my thinking or is it real?

If this was a question about taking a trade or not taking a trade - I would not take it.

I do like the idea of a temporary ban; Just in case it's real and he is as pure and genuine as he comes across.

If it's not real, well only time will tell. But if it's not real, the group behind him would seem to have the means to overcome and be back on FIO as some other newbie and try again learning from the mistake of showing their cards.

Oh and please no one be bashing my idle Al Brooks - if you want to learn to read a chart, read his books multiple times cause that's what it takes to start to understand what he genuinely offers. I am not affiliated with him in any way, but I have personally met the man and was a member of his site when it first started up. I do not trade like him, but I sure did learn a lot from him. If you think he makes a lot of money off selling books, you should do your research on the profit margins in that business for the authors.

As stated many times in this thread, you need to think for yourself. If what someone offers you does not work, do not use it. If someone offers to make you wildly successful, it ait true, only you can do that. Yet, people are people, do what they do. Here's an interesting concept; If you are a successful trader, who is funding your profits? Is it the other successful traders? I don't think soo......

I vote for temporary ban with restatement (if that is an option)

The following user says Thank You to tulanch for this post:

Closed Thread

futures io Trading Community Trading Journals > How I Trade For a Living


Last Updated on November 7, 2016


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
 

Journal Challenge w/$1,800 in prizes!

April

An Introduction to CME Group Micro Bitcoin Futures w/David Lerman

Elite only
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada), info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts