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Trading Without Charts (beginner attempt)
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Created: by gumdr0p Attachments:0

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Trading Without Charts (beginner attempt)

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra, NT
Favorite Futures: ES, VIX
Posts: 51 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 68 given, 12 received

YM overtrading day

Trying out the YM (mixed feelings...). Another change is that I'm only using 1 contract if it is an order flow based trade w/o chart triggers, and potentially 2 contracts if both are being used. (this all broke down in the latter part—who knows what I was basing trades on at that point ...). So, most of the earlier trades today turned out to be almost "without charts" (although they're still peripherally visible). Trades marked w/ an * indicate that I should have taken 2 contracts, but in attempting to scale in I didn't get the 2nd.

+1 chasing the fall
+1/* exited before news, would have been profitable if I had stayed in
+8 came close to initial targe and then failed
-5 got aught on the wrong side of it
-0 accidental entry. quick exit
-7/-1 managed to hold onto 2nd one longer
-11 excruciating, wanted to get out, almost came down to breakeven, but eventually popped up almost 20 pts
+16 slammed up to stop my prior trade, slammed down and I went long. I seemed to have gotten out at just the right point.
-5/- order flow kept me from adding a 2nd contract, put stop in tight to avoid going to a negative balance
-3 trying to bounce off the low of the day, stopped and reversed
-4 trying to catch another pop down, stopped and reversed
+8 again positioning off the lows. went up 16pts, but then hit trailing stop
+7 range play, popped down and hit target, and went further
-4 trying to jump in on the ride down on a tight stop
+7 got back on
-5 trying to bounce
-1 riding down
+2 back on and then reversed
+7/+1 can't seem to catch a major reversal to upside
+20 trying to catch it down one last time. low risk/high reward. totally popped through target
-4/-4 trying to call the bottom
-5 short & reversed on stop
-4 bottom again, low risk
-7 down
-3 bottom again. borrowing from others
-10 short again, obvioulsy i'm getting whipped around.
-9 trying to call bottom one last time.
-4 trade within a trade
-5 another attempt at the bottom
-0 and again, shouldn't have put stop so high ... trying to avoid going too negative on $, and missed the move up!
-8 just had an order waiting at the lows, and it spiked down stopping out immediate and then spiked up ... range of around 150 pts. in a few minutes. wft! news and i wasn't thinking. dang.
-13 jumping in front of the train
-12 accidental 2nd entry in front of the train
-0 trying to catch the top of this
+10 lucky?
-0 trying to catch the top
-0 lucky, as I thought I was going the other direction, and should have been stopped out
-12 hmmmph
-2 went positive, but was holding on for so much more after the losses. it eventually did come down nicely. damn.

In the YM I am counting +1 as breakeven and 0 as a loss, since +1 w/ $4 fees per RT is closer to breakeven.

48 trades
13 wins / 2 be / 33 losses, -$474

OBVIOUSLY OVERTRADING. I should have definitely quit after the +20 (or earlier). I was breaking even until I just kept going dumbly back into another trade, probably perma-fading, and definitely breaking all sorts of rules. I should not trade into the lunch hour. this is what happens when my wife isn't here for lunch. as a consequence, I will only trade 30 minutes tomorrow ... I promise. (thank heavens for sim).

when I'm really trading dumbly, I lose very consistently. why can't one just reverse that?

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  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra, NT
Favorite Futures: ES, VIX
Posts: 51 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 68 given, 12 received

discipline... working on it

Okay, so I decided this morning to limit my trading to:
Thu - 30 minutes / 2 trades
Fri - 45 minutes / 3 trades
Mon - 60 minutes / 4 trades
etc., up to 105-120 minutes

I experimented with Limit entries instead of Market entries. I'll probably go back to Market entries as I found myself chasing the 2nd trade I entered today and then getting out because I didn't feel good about having chased it and jumped in so late. Missed a 50 pt pop. Also, I'm going back to 2 contracts per trades. I think trading only 1 on less certain trades just leads to overtrading.

I took one more trade than I was supposed to... It just seemed like a nice setup and I clicked into it. Kept within the time limit, though.

3 trades

3 winners, +$110

Last edited by gumdr0p; June 18th, 2015 at 05:28 PM.
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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra, NT
Favorite Futures: ES, VIX
Posts: 51 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 68 given, 12 received

chopped up

kept to my time minimum for today (45 minutes), but took 1 extra trade. so, kind of following rules and discipline, although a lot of room for improvement.

4 trades:
-4/-4 nice move on stop to reduce loss once it was evident trade was stalling and moving against me
-9/-9 ouch, tried the same move
-4/-4 another decent minimization of loss

4 losers, -$262

took the last trade as the first three were all order flow only. the fourth actually had trigger from chart.

puts me negative for the week. i could have still been positive IF i hadn't lost my mind on wednesday.

goal for next week is to only trade when both chart signals and order flow are in sync. that might be more important than specifying the number of trades (as that can lead me to think I need to take a certain number). maybe try NQ or ES again. stick to time limits (60 min on Mon, 75 on Tue, ...). okay!

last week: -$1,515
this week: -$252

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  #14 (permalink)
Elite Member
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra, NT
Favorite Futures: ES, VIX
Posts: 51 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 68 given, 12 received

NQ vs ES

Tried going back to the NQ. It's too wild.

-2.75/-2.75 accidental 2nd entry

3 losers, -$334

Resetting, and trying ES for the 2nd half of the morning session. Just experimenting.

+1.00/+1.00 should have held out longer on the 2nd

3 winners, 2 be, 1 loss, +$171.94

I guess even though I don't like how slow the ES can be (like watching paint dry at times), if I can be patient I can actually read the order flow somewhat, and manage trades better at the slower pace. So, since chart triggers are slower, this pushes me back more towards reading the depth of market, and putting the charts somewhat on the periphery.

Another thing to consider is that the first half of the morning is too wild, and things are more gentle the second half. I'll keep my eye on that.

Last edited by gumdr0p; June 23rd, 2015 at 11:27 AM.
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  #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra, NT
Favorite Futures: ES, VIX
Posts: 51 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 68 given, 12 received

pretty bad

3 ES contracts per trade.

Something is obviously off. I'm always late to the small game and/or taking too many trades.

-.50x3 tightened too early, could have survived a 1pt stop
+.25x3 accidental entry
-.50x3 bad call to enter
+.50x3 got out for news
+1.50x3 caught downward break, was positioned to ride it further but it reversed
-.50x3 trying to ride something back up. long wait...., shouldn't have tightened stop
-.50x3 these last three should have been avoided by staying in the prior trade
-.50x2/-.75 accidentally clicked in. just add it to the bill.

5 wins, 1 be, 12 losses, -$1157.52

Am I learning anything by just taking beating after beating? Would I be better off reading a book, watching trading videos, etc.?

Last edited by gumdr0p; June 23rd, 2015 at 11:29 AM.
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  #16 (permalink)
Elite Member
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra, NT
Favorite Futures: ES, VIX
Posts: 51 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 68 given, 12 received


No trading today. Took the day off to regroup. Iíll begin a stricter trade plan tomorrow. To give it fresh start, Iím moving to a new journal:

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