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How I bought my Porsche 911 with Cash


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How I bought my Porsche 911 with Cash

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  #1 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received

Hello,

OK, I haven't bought it yet. But that's the GRAND end goal. A few years back, well probably more like 10 years ago, I had two cars and I couldn't afford to keep them both. So I sold the newer one and kept my, all paid for, Mazda pickup. Then I told my wife that I'm not buying another car until I can afford to buy a Porsche 911 (my dream car, and also what my Dad had when I was growing up).

This is going to be my trading journal to document how I made enough money to buy that Porsche. I'm just paper trading now, but I'm hoping to go live in February. And, I'm going to do it the hard way (i.e. on as little funding as possible).

This will either be a grand success story, or I'll go down in a huge fireball. Either way, I'm also hoping someone might find the journal beneficial.

See this thread and this one for some extra info on me and my goals. (The second thread will contain a post with a link back to here, so don't get caught in a loop!)

To start, I'm going to day trade the ES, and only the ES. I might also swing trade it. I plan to transition from my current job as an electrical engineer to trading full time.

Well, I think that's enough of an intro. The next post should contain the start of my paper trading journal.

Have a CAVU day!

P.S. I just saw that there's another thread with almost the exact same title! Oh, well. To clarify, I REALLY am trying to buy a Porsche!

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  #3 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received


Hello All,

So, I'm not sure what info I'm supposed to document here in this journal. I've looked at a few other journals and there doesn't seem to be a set format. I'll keep looking though. So, for now, I'll just post weekly #'s on/after Friday of each week and daily commentary on my education and trades.

Here's a table for the last 3 weeks.

Trading Log Summary
Week #Fri DatePt +/-Gross P/LSuccess %P/L ratio
'14 Week 5212/26/14-15.25-762.5038.9%0.24
'15 Week 11/2/157.75387.5062.5%1.25
'15 Week 21/9/1543.752187.5063.2%1.65
Overall1/9/1536.251812.5058.6%1.24

What I'm taking away from these numbers is that I'm getting better as I educate myself and get more screen time in front of the charts. I'm not going to put a lot of stock in the high numbers (what I consider high anyway) of '15 Week 2. A friend told me that if I'm just OK at paper trading, I'll have a hard time when live, if I do outstanding in PT, then I'll do OK when live.

I'm still playing around with my platform setup (ToS), and plan to try NinjaTrader next week. My original plan was to use TradeStation, but I don't think they have a free/trial version. NT was/is my second choice.

Have a CAVU day!

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  #4 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received

Hello All,

Well, today sucked. Here are my numbers

Daily Trading Log Summary
DayDatePt +/-Gross P/LSuccess %P/L ratio
Monday1/12/15-18.00-900.0033.3%0.17
'15 Week 31/16/15-18.00-900.0033.3%0.17

What was wrong today, let me see ....

I thought the market was going to have an up day today, so before the open I was long. Obviously, that went south, but I got out with only a small loss.

I was trying to be patient, and missed most of the big early down trend. I got in late for my second trade and found I was at the bottom, so another loser.

After that, I was behind the market all day. Again, being patient, I was waiting for confirmation of direction and keep getting in too late. I was trying to wait for the market to hit my +4 pt targets and missed out on 2-3 pt gains to end up with 4-5 pt losses.

I clearly don't do well on days where it's choppy.

I think I had it in my head that the trend was one way, and read the charts with that bias, only to realize too late that the (short term?) trend was the opposite.

I need to stick to a daily loss limit and bench myself. I think that limit will be twice what my daily goal is.

I also think I could be better at reversing my position when I realize I've got it wrong. One, I have to realize I've got it wrong, and two I need to figure out my trading platform to figure out which button to press.

Using NT today instead of ToS, might have been an issue, but I think is was 95% me misreading everything.

Glad it was only paper money!

Have a CAVU day!

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  #5 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received

Here are my numbers for the last three days.

Daily Trading Log Summary
DayDatePt +/-Gross P/LSuccess %P/L Ratio
Tuesday1/13/15-9.75-487.5040.0%0.36
Wednesday1/14/15+8.25412.5071.4%1.49
Thursday1/15/15+2.00100.0055.6%1.06
'15 Week 31/16/15-17.50-875.0050.0%0.69

I hadn't planned on trading on Tuesday (real job needed attention), but I made the mistake of checking the chart with about half an hour to go in the day session. I thought I saw a good opportunity, and I was wrong. Waited too long for it to swing my way and was big time in the hole from the get go. Scratched back a couple points then gave up.

New rule, don't trade in the first 30 minutes of looking at charts. I need that time to get a feel for the flow of the market.

On Wednesday I had a good day. I broke one of my rules and took a position overnight. I put in a -10 pt stop, and sure enough it got hit. Then by pure luck, I woke up early, saw the loss, and got back in to my original position. A report came out, that I didn't know about, and the market dropped in my favor to give me back my loss. After that, I thought I read the charts OK.

Today, started off OK. I was up 8 pts after an hour and a half. Then I got greedy and tried to earn back what I had lost on Monday. All I accomplished was to give back most of today's gains. I should modify my quit after +10 pts rule to be quit after doubling my daily goal.

So, what have I learned the last three days? Stick to my rules. I also need to work on getting out of a losing position quicker.

I think I'm also trading with a split personality. One part of me wants to hang on longer to let winners run, and the other part of me wants to get out with 2-4 pt gains. Am I trying to be a day trader or a swing trader? I'm confusing myself by trading as if it's one kind of trend (a long term trend) when the short term trend is the opposite.


Have a CAVU day!

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  #6 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received

I forgot to post last Friday's numbers. Here they are.

Daily Trading Log Summary
DayDatePt +/-Gross P/LSuccess %P/L Ratio
Friday1/16/15-17.00-850.0038.1%0.35
'15 Week 31/16/15-34.50-1725.0045.1%0.59


Friday was an experiment of sorts. I've had problems quickly detecting the reversal of a short term trend. So, I tried to quickly reverse my position when I decide the trend has changed. This worked OK for the first hour, and I was up 8 pts. According to my rules, I should have stopped trading for the day. But, I didn't.

The last trade of the first hour ended when I got spooked and thought the trend had changed, but it was just a small pullback. Now I was out of sync with the market. I made 21 trades today, and 12 of the last 13 were losers. 5 of the losers were for -3 pts or more. Also, I thought the longer term trend was going to turn bearish and it stayed bullish. Fighting the trend doesn't work.

I'm not sure the reversal strategy would work in real life, with slippage. I tried not to flip very often, but 7 of my first 8 trades were for 1.25 pts or less.

I'm never one to shy away from admitting I'm wrong, at this rate I won't be ready to go live in February. I probably won't paper trade next week. I need to take care of some other business and I want to research more info on day trading and useful relationships and indicators.

I've seen Expenctancy mentioned in several threads on this site. I can see how it's a useful measure of performance, so I'll start including it in my tables. Here is my Expectancy for this week and overall:

2015 Week 3 = -$40.14.
Overall = -$5.74.

If I understand it correctly, these negative Expectancy numbers are due to my losers being larger than my winners. This is definitely a problem I need to correct before going live.

Have a CAVU day!

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  #7 (permalink)
 skoa 
Wolfsburg, Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Python
Broker: InteractiveBrokers
Trading: ALL the futures (and options)
 
Posts: 82 since Sep 2014
Thanks: 353 given, 52 received

Haha, I have done almost exactly the same when I decided to take trading beyond the theoretical stage: I set obtaining a 911 GT3 as my "goal". I like how goals give you a better perspective on where you are and what you have to do.

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  #8 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received

This is a late log entry for last week.

Daily Trading Log Summary
DayDateGross P/LExpectancy
'15 Week 41/23/15-$1093.75-$30.64

I had planned on taking some time off from paper trading and educating myself. That didn't work out. I ended up trading on 3 days, wed - fri.

On Monday and Tuesday, I spent time researching and learning more about using volume to help interpret price charts. I also did some research into what information I should be watching, and interpreting, throughout the day to help me determine market trend.

On Wednesday, the 21st, I started trading some different instruments, DX, M6E, NQ, 6J, GC, CL and ZB. I also switched back to ThinkOrSwim because I'm more comfortable with it at this point, although I don't like how the order entry works. I did OK, up $611.25 for the day, but I was mostly just playing around.

On Thursday, I started out trading NQ, but that didn't go well. I switched back to ES, and didn't gain anything back. The last trade of the day was CL, for +$120. I ended up -$547.50 for the day.

On Friday, I tried some different instruments again, GC, NQ, M6E, DX, ES. It was a bad day from the start. I was awake at 00:49, and made some trades, all for losses. I was up by the time the NYSE openned and made some more trades, all but one was a loser. I had stopped trading after a couple hours, but made two more trades right at market close, both for losses. I only had one positive trade for the day and ended up -$1162.50.

My biggest problem at this point is discipline. I'm not following my rules.

I also think that I don't have a big enough account to trade ES effectively. It just moves too much for my loss tolerance. That is one reason I wanted to try other instruments. I thought NQ would be good (smaller tick $ amount), but it just seems to move twice as many ticks as ES, so the $ amounts in the swings are about the same.

I have more problems, but my third biggest problem is not trading WITH the trend. This is partly because I'm not looking at larger time frames enough to see the larger trend.

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  #9 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received

Daily Trading Log Summary
DayDateGross P/LExpectancy
'15 Week 51/30/15$143.75-$3.89

I became an Elite member on Friday of last week. I plan on reading a lot of threads and watching a bunch of the webinars.

Over the weekend (1/24-1/25) decided I wanted to try to incorporate Market Profile into my setup. I realized that I'm entering trades without any idea of what my target should be. I have been setting a stop loss order (based on my loss tolerance) and just manually getting out when I feel like it. So, then the question becomes, how do I determine a profit target? One, way is to identify price support and resistance levels, and use those at targets. That's where Market Profile comes in. I think it will help me identify S/R levels.

The other thing I want to incorporate into my setup is VWAP with +/- 2sd levels. I'll try using daily and weekly VWAP.

I decided to watch the following to try and determine market trend and sentiment: $ADVN-$DECN, $VIX, CL, GC, ZB and USD/JPY.

I didn't trade on Monday. On Tuesday (1/27), I started out with a trade in M6E, for a loss of -$22.50. I then made a trade in NQ for a profit of $200. Only one more trade, in M6E, for a gain of $105. In the last trade, I used 4 contracts.

On Wednesday, I again started out trading M6E. After four trades I was only up $17.50. Then I switched to NQ. I did a bit better, and at the end of the day I was up $427.50. I only had one loser with NQ. The trades in NQ weren't that hard because the market was dropping steadily, and I kept getting in and out.

On Thursday, I just traded NQ. I made one good trade before the market openned and was up $100. I then broke one of my rules and trading right after the opening bell. The price was jumping all over the place, and I got scared and took a loss of -$310. After that, I was out of sync with the trend and I was trying to hard to make up my early losses. I also broke my rule to stop after so much in losses. I ended the day with a loss of -$690.

On Friday, I couldn't trade NQ because of margin requirements, so I tried DX, and then M6E and ZB. After two DX trades, I was down -$30. The next 5 trades were in M6E, and I didn't do well. I was now down -$52.50. I didn't see very many good trade oportunities in DX or M6E. After a couple hours, I noticed ZB moving and made two trades, both positive, and ended the day with a gain of $103.75.

With commissions, I ended up with a net loss for the week of -$136.07.

Again, my biggest problem is discipline and following my rules. Other than Thursday, I think I did OK with being patient and letting the trades come to me. But, all it takes is one day to wipe out all my other gains.

I think market profile and vwap did help me. I still need to tweak my settings, though, so I can see monthly and YTD information. I've also been reading about other market profile like charts, but I'd have to switch back to Ninja Trader.

I'm still having problems identifying and trading WITH the trend.

I'm torn on which instrument I should be trading. I think I understand how ES and NQ move, but I'm not sure I'm going to have a big enough account to withstand the losses/drawdown. At this point, I don't think I understand what makes the Euro (M6E) move. I'll have to do some more research on this.

The last two weeks I didn't do very well to keep a trade journal so that I could review what I was thinking when I entered trades. It doesn't do me any good to review the charts after the fact, because it doesn't look the same as when it's actually unfolding.

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  #10 (permalink)
 Pariah Carey 
Market Wizard
Memphis TN
 
Experience: None
Platform: ToS
Broker: TDA
Trading: None
 
Pariah Carey's Avatar
 
Posts: 899 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 154 given, 2,734 received


Based on your responses to some of the advice given in your other thread, it is no surprise that you're in this situation. Like, at all. I mean you could see it coming a mile away. The good news is that you've gone down to micros and become an elite member. You don't have to agree with everything the SMEs say on this forum and drink the kool aid, I sure don't, but there is a lot of information here to seek out and soak up. There are certainly worse ways to spend a hundred bucks on trading education.

You should start describing your process in this journal. All you're doing so far is posting results, and that doesn't really help anybody. Tell us why you entered a trade, what did you see on the chart that made you enter. Put it all out there for us. I for one would like to see how you made $600 in a day "mostly just playing around."

Money make ya handsome
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  #11 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received


Pariah Carey View Post
Based on your responses to some of the advice given in your other thread, it is no surprise that you're in this situation. Like, at all. I mean you could see it coming a mile away.

What exact situation am I in? Please explain. The last 5 weeks have only cost me $100 and the time I've spent in front of my computer watching charts. I don't think I've every implied that I have risked real money. I've already stated that I won't be going live in February, which was one of my original goals.


Pariah Carey View Post
The good news is that you've gone down to micros and become an elite member. You don't have to agree with everything the SMEs say on this forum and drink the kool aid, I sure don't, but there is a lot of information here to seek out and soak up. There are certainly worse ways to spend a hundred bucks on trading education.

I agree that there's a lot of good information here, that's why I became an Elite member.


Pariah Carey View Post
You should start describing your process in this journal. All you're doing so far is posting results, and that doesn't really help anybody. Tell us why you entered a trade, what did you see on the chart that made you enter. Put it all out there for us.

I'm still trying to figure this all out, including the "daily" part of the journaling. To be honest, I didn't start this journal to help anyone else, I'm hoping it helps me. If someone else gets benefit from it, then that's a bonus. I also recognize that what I've written here so far isn't good enough. I need to better describe why I entered trades.

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  #12 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received


Pariah Carey View Post
I for one would like to see how you made $600 in a day "mostly just playing around."

From ToS, here is every paper trade I made on Wednesday. The amounts I used in my previous post are before commissions. So net gains aren't really as high and losses are greater. OK, maybe this wasn't "mostly just playing around", as most of this happened during RTH. But the trades after 20:51 are definitely me playing with different instruments to verify what margin requirements are and how much each tick is worth.

This is badly formatted, but the columns are: time, sell/buy, # of contracts, instrument, price, fees, commissions, P/L, account balance.

1/21/15
06:57:10 SOLD -1 /DXH5 @92.665 -1.37 -2.00 -- 7,212.75
06:57:55 BOT +1 /M6EH5 @1.1633 -0.18 -2.00 -- 7,210.57
07:11:09 BOT +1 /DXH5 @92.65 -1.37 -2.00 15.00 7,222.20
07:11:19 SOLD -1 /M6EH5 @1.1637 -0.18 -2.00 5.00 7,225.02
07:16:21 SOLD -1 /DXH5 @92.60 -1.37 -2.00 -- 7,221.65
07:16:34 BOT +1 /M6EH5 @1.1645 -0.18 -2.00 -- 7,219.47
07:25:21 BOT +1 /DXH5 @92.645 -1.37 -2.00 -45.00 7,171.10
07:25:49 SOLD -1 /M6EH5 @1.1637 -0.18 -2.00 -10.00 7,158.92
07:26:21 BOT +1 /DXH5 @92.655 -1.37 -2.00 -- 7,155.55
07:26:34 SOLD -1 /M6EH5 @1.1637 -0.18 -2.00 -- 7,153.37
07:30:01 BOT +1 /M6EH5 @1.164 -0.18 -2.00 -3.75 7,147.44
07:36:25 BOT +1 /ESH5 @2012.25 -1.16 -2.00 -- 7,144.28
07:42:35 SOLD -1 /ESH5 @2019.00 -1.16 -2.00 337.50 7,478.62
07:48:03 SOLD -1 /DXH5 @92.59 -1.37 -2.00 -65.00 7,410.25
07:56:15 BOT +1 /DXH5 @92.69 -1.37 -2.00 -- 7,406.88
08:03:25 SOLD -1 /DXH5 @92.79 -1.37 -2.00 100.00 7,503.51
08:24:24 SOLD -1 /M6EH5 @1.1623 -0.18 -2.00 -- 7,501.33
09:02:50 BOT +1 /M6EH5 @1.1598 -0.18 -2.00 31.25 7,530.40
11:22:57 SOLD -1 /NQH5 @4188.25 -1.16 -2.00 -- 7,527.24
12:14:45 BOT +1 /NQH5 @4175.25 -1.16 -2.00 260.00 7,784.08
12:39:01 SOLD -1 /NQH5 @4172.75 -1.16 -2.00 -- 7,780.92
12:45:38 BOT +1 /NQH5 @4180.25 -1.16 -2.00 -150.00 7,627.76
12:45:52 BOT +1 /NQH5 @4181.00 -1.16 -2.00 -- 7,624.60
13:50:43 SOLD -1 /NQH5 @4184.00 -1.16 -2.00 60.00 7,681.44
20:51:08 BOT +1 /6JH5 @.008459 -1.62 -2.00 -- 7,677.82
20:55:48 SOLD -1 /6JH5 @.008457 -1.62 -2.00 -25.00 7,649.20
22:10:46 BOT +1 /CLH5 @47.45 -1.47 -2.00 -- 7,645.73
22:14:18 SOLD -1 /CLH5 @47.46 -1.47 -2.00 10.00 7,652.26
22:14:47 SOLD -1 /GCG5 @1292.90 -1.47 -2.00 -- 7,648.79
22:17:55 BOT +1 /GCG5 @1292.30 -1.47 -2.00 60.00 7,705.32
22:18:47 SOLD -1 /ZBH5 @148'18 -0.58 -2.00 -- 7,702.74
22:20:29 BOT +1 /ZBH5 @148'17 -0.58 -2.00 31.25 7,731.41

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  #13 (permalink)
spsenator
tampa florida/united states
 
 
Posts: 22 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 1 given, 14 received

have you traded with real money before? if not,i suggest you dont start until you feel 100% ready and with the smallest account you can start out with..
take it from someone who has just blown a huge portion of their account

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 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received


spsenator View Post
have you traded with real money before? if not,i suggest you dont start until you feel 100% ready and with the smallest account you can start out with..
take it from someone who has just blown a huge portion of their account

No, I have not traded with real money before. I am still not 100% ready, but I think I'm close. Once I figure out the right instrument for my loss tolerance, I'll go live so that I can work on the psychological part of trading.

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  #15 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received

Hello All,

I think I've been called out, in another thread, by someone I consider to be a very good trader. Someone I respect. Someone I don't actually know, and who doesn't know me. I'm both honored and humbled that he's paid any attention to this thread.

But, I think there's been some miscommunication, or some misunderstanding of what I've written. So, I'd like to address these misunderstandings.

I choose the title of this thread to attract attention, and it looks like it's worked. The idea was that people would read this thread and tell me what I'm doing wrong and give me some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. And most people have. What I didn't anticipate is that the title, and my comments, would lead some to believe that I wasn't serious about learning to be a profitable trader.

Here is what was said in another thread.


Quoting 
this is not the "how I bought my porsche 911 with cash" thread. this is the " i want to learn how to make money so i can support myself and my family with the income i generate from trading" thread.

While the Porsche is a real and serious goal, I do have a family I'd like to support. And my family will come first. Only after my family has been taken care of, will I buy the Porsche. I didn't put a timeline on this goal, because I don't really know how long it's going to take. I've already had this goal for several years, and I'm still pursuing it, but not at the expense of feeding my family and putting a roof over our heads.


Quoting 
the aforementioned poster is more concerned about the outcome of his trading efforts, than the process that is required to achieve that outcome.

I'll admit I made a rookie mistake by focusing on how much profit I wanted. I have since learned that I need to focus on minimizing loss and money management.


Quoting 
instead of using the forum to learn from others who have already been successful, ...

How am I not using the forum to learn from others? I became an Elite member to access more of the information on this site.


Quoting 
... he chooses to show everybody how much faith he has in his own methodology, even though it's never been profitable.

What's wrong with having faith in the way I'm doing things, my "methodology"? At this point, I think I'm still new enough that it's me that's failing, and not the "methodology". I also don't think that I have my "own methodology" yet. Is trying to follow Wycoff and using Market Profile a methodology? I'm still learning and trying to put into practice what I'm learning.


Quoting 
if you really want to learn, find ways to assess information systematically and surround yourself with experienced, knowledgeable, and proven people, who will challenge your opinions; even when they tell you something you don't want to hear.

I haven't written about it here, but I AM trying to learn from "experienced, knowledgeable, and proven people". I expect people to challenge my opinions. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to blindly believe everything they tell me. In some cases, I have to experience the failure of my opinions for myself to learn. But I'll be the first to admit I was wrong, and then I'll move on. I believe there's nothing wrong with failure, if you learn from it. In my threads, there's only been ONE person's "advice" that I said I wouldn't follow. And I think it was more of an opinion than advice. I countered that "I want to be successful at this much sooner than 12 months". By "successful", I really meant "profitable".


Quoting 
what he should be saying is, " i am determined to be 1 of the 5% of new traders that actually become a profitable trader; and, i am willing to do whatever it takes to achieve that goal.

I have stated that I want to be profitable. I didn't know that only 5% of new traders achieve that. I haven't stated the second part, but that's how I approach all my goals.


Quoting 
what he should be saying is, ... i am smart enough to know i'm dumb enough, that i don't know everything.

Have I stated anything to the contrary? I don't think I've ever stated that I know everything, or that I even know anything. I have been trying to express what I am thinking and what I've observed. I think if you've read all my posts in all the threads I've started, it's obvious that I'm open to suggestions. Then again, maybe it's not.

While I may have made some bold goals, I don't think I've held myself out as any sort of expert. I think I've made it abundantly clear that I'm new and have no trading experience.

Big Mike says we should come up with our own trading style, that fits our personality and risk tolerance. That's what I'm trying to do. I don't think I'm going to figure it out overnight, but I'm hoping that it doesn't take a year.

Maybe I am just being used as the latest example of "how not to be", but I'm taking offense to not being seen as taking trading seriously. While I still think I pick up concepts quicker than most, I'm not above putting in the work required to succeed.

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  #16 (permalink)
spsenator
tampa florida/united states
 
 
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bcabebe View Post
From ToS, here is every paper trade I made on Wednesday. The amounts I used in my previous post are before commissions. So net gains aren't really as high and losses are greater. OK, maybe this wasn't "mostly just playing around", as most of this happened during RTH. But the trades after 20:51 are definitely me playing with different instruments to verify what margin requirements are and how much each tick is worth.

This is badly formatted, but the columns are: time, sell/buy, # of contracts, instrument, price, fees, commissions, P/L, account balance.

1/21/15
06:57:10 SOLD -1 /DXH5 @92.665 -1.37 -2.00 -- 7,212.75
06:57:55 BOT +1 /M6EH5 @1.1633 -0.18 -2.00 -- 7,210.57
07:11:09 BOT +1 /DXH5 @92.65 -1.37 -2.00 15.00 7,222.20
07:11:19 SOLD -1 /M6EH5 @1.1637 -0.18 -2.00 5.00 7,225.02
07:16:21 SOLD -1 /DXH5 @92.60 -1.37 -2.00 -- 7,221.65
07:16:34 BOT +1 /M6EH5 @1.1645 -0.18 -2.00 -- 7,219.47
07:25:21 BOT +1 /DXH5 @92.645 -1.37 -2.00 -45.00 7,171.10
07:25:49 SOLD -1 /M6EH5 @1.1637 -0.18 -2.00 -10.00 7,158.92
07:26:21 BOT +1 /DXH5 @92.655 -1.37 -2.00 -- 7,155.55
07:26:34 SOLD -1 /M6EH5 @1.1637 -0.18 -2.00 -- 7,153.37
07:30:01 BOT +1 /M6EH5 @1.164 -0.18 -2.00 -3.75 7,147.44
07:36:25 BOT +1 /ESH5 @2012.25 -1.16 -2.00 -- 7,144.28
07:42:35 SOLD -1 /ESH5 @2019.00 -1.16 -2.00 337.50 7,478.62
07:48:03 SOLD -1 /DXH5 @92.59 -1.37 -2.00 -65.00 7,410.25
07:56:15 BOT +1 /DXH5 @92.69 -1.37 -2.00 -- 7,406.88
08:03:25 SOLD -1 /DXH5 @92.79 -1.37 -2.00 100.00 7,503.51
08:24:24 SOLD -1 /M6EH5 @1.1623 -0.18 -2.00 -- 7,501.33
09:02:50 BOT +1 /M6EH5 @1.1598 -0.18 -2.00 31.25 7,530.40
11:22:57 SOLD -1 /NQH5 @4188.25 -1.16 -2.00 -- 7,527.24
12:14:45 BOT +1 /NQH5 @4175.25 -1.16 -2.00 260.00 7,784.08
12:39:01 SOLD -1 /NQH5 @4172.75 -1.16 -2.00 -- 7,780.92
12:45:38 BOT +1 /NQH5 @4180.25 -1.16 -2.00 -150.00 7,627.76
12:45:52 BOT +1 /NQH5 @4181.00 -1.16 -2.00 -- 7,624.60
13:50:43 SOLD -1 /NQH5 @4184.00 -1.16 -2.00 60.00 7,681.44
20:51:08 BOT +1 /6JH5 @.008459 -1.62 -2.00 -- 7,677.82
20:55:48 SOLD -1 /6JH5 @.008457 -1.62 -2.00 -25.00 7,649.20
22:10:46 BOT +1 /CLH5 @47.45 -1.47 -2.00 -- 7,645.73
22:14:18 SOLD -1 /CLH5 @47.46 -1.47 -2.00 10.00 7,652.26
22:14:47 SOLD -1 /GCG5 @1292.90 -1.47 -2.00 -- 7,648.79
22:17:55 BOT +1 /GCG5 @1292.30 -1.47 -2.00 60.00 7,705.32
22:18:47 SOLD -1 /ZBH5 @148'18 -0.58 -2.00 -- 7,702.74
22:20:29 BOT +1 /ZBH5 @148'17 -0.58 -2.00 31.25 7,731.41

my advice..if i were you i would definately hold of on trading oil and gold with real money add /ZB and the Dax to that..stick to the /es or the /nq which is a little cheaper to trade and price action not as crazy as the others.

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  #17 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
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spsenator View Post
my advice..if i were you i would definately hold of on trading oil and gold with real money add /ZB and the Dax to that..stick to the /es or the /nq which is a little cheaper to trade and price action not as crazy as the others.

Yes, I am trying to stay away from crude and gold. As you'll see in my next post, I'm trying to focus on the euro and dollar futures, as I think they'll fit my initial risk/loss tolerance best. As my account size grows and I can afford more $ risk, I'll try NQ and ES.

Thanks.

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  #18 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
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Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
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Hi,

I'm not sure I can multi-task while paper trading to post to this thread in real time, so I kept a journal in a text file today. I wanted to try and capture what I was thinking before during and after trades. Also, I tried not to filter myself too much. Here's what I wrote. All times MST.

2015.02.03 Tuesday

I woke up and checked charts on ToS on my tablet.

I saw that the euro (M6E) was rising. I waited until it had topped out and pulled away from the +2sd of daily VWAP. About 7:05 I got in short with 2 contracts at 1.1445. I watched it for a while, about 25 minutes and saw that the price was leveling off and not changing much, volume had dropped off also. I decided to get out at 7:29 at 1.1430. After fees and commissions, a gain of 27.78.

0837 - I am hoping to trade the euro (M6E) or the dollar (DX) today, but for the last half hour they've just gone sideways, with very little movement.

0838 - I'd also consider trading bonds (ZB) if I see a good trend and entry point. It's kind of stalled at the moment also.

0844 - M6E at + 2d of weekly VWAP. Is this a good signal for downward movement to VWAP (daily or weekly)? vix and adv-dec are both kind of flat at the moment.

0934 - I walked away from my computer for 45 mins, and missed a nice rise in the euro (M6E).

0955 - The dollar is at 93.990 and rising off a low of 93.730, which is close to -2sd of daily VWAP and at -2sd of weekly VWAP. The dollar hasn't been this low in a week. It doesn't look like there's any support below 93.730 until about 93.338. The dollar is in a daily down trend after a big down move around 6 am. The dollar dropped yesterday, but was even for a couple days at the end of last week. There's possibly a few s/r levels at 94.070, 94.110 and 94.160. Volume dropped off after the low of 93.730.

1007 - Volume and market profile seem to tell me lower on the dollar, but if it does drop, there's not any support for a while I think.

1014 - I don't have any confidence that I know which way the dollar is going to go.

1018 - Sold dollar short at 93.915, 1 contract. Speculating down. My mental stop is at 94. I'd like to see 93.800, if not lower.

1021 - Placed a buy stop at 94.000.

1028 - I'm still not sure I understand what moves the dollar, or the euro or yen for that matter.

1035 - Yen (6J) took a 5 tick jump in the last 5 mins, and looks to be rising. Don't know why of course.

1038 - Euro looks to be inversly related to the dollar all day today. Which it should be, of course. But the yen doesn't look correlated to the dollar today, at least not as directly as the euro.

1042 - Looks like rate of descent of the dollar is slowing down, I might just get out here aroung 93.845.

1045 - Crude (CL) is jumping up for some reason. I don't know if that has any bearing on the dollar, but the dollar dropped a bit also.

1051 - Moved my stop down to 93.870. 93.805 may have been the bottom of this little run.

1056 - Adv-dec jumping up, $tick rising also. Does this mean the dollar will start rising? Crude (CL) is still rising

1100 - Out at market of 93.785. I just felt like this was going to be a low, same level as close of bar at 0935. After fees and commisions, a gain of 122.76. daily gain of 150.54.

1116 - I increased market profile look back to 10 days and see that ~93.650 was probably a better target than 93.800.

1203 - I took a little break for lunch. Came back and the dollar rose of light volume, compared to the volume that brought it down from 93.630 between 11:15 - 11:35. My guess is that the dollar will drop from here, 93.715, and continue the down trend.

1209 - or maybe not.

1214 - In short at 93.710, 1 contract. Put a stop in at 93.790, one tick above the high of three bars ago. Target of 93.635, or lower. Possibly 93.535 or 93.450.

1231 - Very low volume on the last bar, volume picking up and it's going against me.

1235 - I think the cash close is at 1 pm, maybe it wasn't such a good idea to get in so late.

1240 - Put in a limit order at 93.700. I'll be happy to get out even.

1243 - Out at 93.700. Daily gain now at 153.30.

I still need to do some homework to figure out why the euro and dollar move the way they do, and what I should be watching for confirmation of trends.

Thanks for reading.

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  #19 (permalink)
 grausch 
Luxembourg, Luxembourg
 
Experience: Advanced
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Trading: Stocks
 
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bcabebe View Post

I still need to do some homework to figure out why the euro and dollar move the way they do, and what I should be watching for confirmation of trends.

If I may paraphrase Richard Dennis, "Don't worry about what the market is going to do. Worry about what you are going to do when it gets there."

Even if you do figure out why the euro and dollar move the way they do, it is very likely that the market changes and that your reasoning no longer works. IMO, it would be better to spend your time on the process, i.e. trade selection (should I even be in this trade?), trade size, stop-loss, and profit taking. If the process is valid, you stick with it and apply it consistently, then ultimately you will make money.

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  #20 (permalink)
 oddTrader 
Mesa, AZ
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 21 given, 12 received

Hi All,

I haven't posted in a while because I haven't been paper trading. I've been trying to educate myself on proper risk and money management.

When I was paper trading, I started to feel that the reasons for me entering and exiting trades was based more on feeling than solid reason. I decided that sitting in front of a computer all day trying to trade wasn't going to improve my reasons for making trades. I guess I realized that the process I was using, just didn't work.

As I read up on risk management and money management, I realized that I was being too aggressive. This was being confirmed by the drawdown in my paper account. So, I needed to stop, re-assess and come up with a better plan.

My initial beliefs about what day trading was going to be like, were wrong. I was hoping that I could just trade on technical analysis, but now I don't think that's realistic for me. I still want to make day trading my "job", but it's going to take longer that I had hoped. Since, I'll still have to keep my day job for a while longer, I'll have to be more of a swing trader than a day trader. Also, I'm not sure I can start out with as small an account as I wanted to.

Currently, I'm learning more about fundamental analysis and saving more money. I'll post again when I open a real account and start trading live.

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  #21 (permalink)
nexustrader
NYC, NY
 
 
Posts: 1 since Mar 2015
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Interesting stuff, keep it coming. I started with a 7k account 4 weeks ago with only papertrading ES for one week!. Thought I had it figured out and dove in, thinking I could scalp all day for 2 tick to 4 tick gains. By the end of the week I was up 1k and it only made my ego worse. ES wrecked me the following week and I lost my profits from the first week and slowly took another 1k with it. Going back to papertrading and remaining there until I'm 100% with a more definitive concrete strategy. Thanks for sharing your experiences

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  #22 (permalink)
 grausch 
Luxembourg, Luxembourg
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: Stocks
 
Posts: 491 since May 2012
Thanks: 1,641 given, 1,149 received


bcabebe View Post
Hi All,

I haven't posted in a while because I haven't been paper trading. I've been trying to educate myself on proper risk and money management.

When I was paper trading, I started to feel that the reasons for me entering and exiting trades was based more on feeling than solid reason. I decided that sitting in front of a computer all day trying to trade wasn't going to improve my reasons for making trades. I guess I realized that the process I was using, just didn't work.

As I read up on risk management and money management, I realized that I was being too aggressive. This was being confirmed by the drawdown in my paper account. So, I needed to stop, re-assess and come up with a better plan.

My initial beliefs about what day trading was going to be like, were wrong. I was hoping that I could just trade on technical analysis, but now I don't think that's realistic for me. I still want to make day trading my "job", but it's going to take longer that I had hoped. Since, I'll still have to keep my day job for a while longer, I'll have to be more of a swing trader than a day trader. Also, I'm not sure I can start out with as small an account as I wanted to.

Currently, I'm learning more about fundamental analysis and saving more money. I'll post again when I open a real account and start trading live.

That is actually quite a good step forward. Glad you figured out those things as it will make your odds of success a little better.

I posted about some recommended books in these two links, but there is also some other info in there that may be useful:




Short summary
1. Darvas, O'Neil & Minervini - Their books provide concrete methods that you can use quite successfully to trade stocks. I know you are primarily interested in daytrading, but these books are a nice read and you may learn something useful.
2. Market Wizards (first 2 required, 3rd optional, 4th meh), Reminiscences of a Stock Operator - These should be on every traders bookshelf. A lot of insights from traders who have made millions.

Reading about risk management & money management is good, but it is not that complicated. The most complicated you need to get is probably ATR-based position sizing as explained in the Turtle rules. You can find those online quite easily.

Regarding fundamental analysis, yes, some people find it quite useful, but there is very little you really need to know. Same with technical analysis. Neither will help you understand the market or neither will an understanding of the market improve your win%. How you manage your trades is much more important. Once you have read the above books, this paragraph may make more sense.

Final note - Subscribe to eIBD ( Stock Investment Research & Education - Business & Financial News - IBD - Investors.com). I save every single issue and it can provide some nice insights while not costing that much. Just ensure that you subscribe to eIBD and not the website itself as these are 2 different services. After a while you can judge for yourself whether you might find it useful, and it won't cost much to explore this avenue.

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