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Tap In's Corner
Started:November 23rd, 2014 (09:08 PM) by Tap In Views / Replies:34,410 / 839
Last Reply:October 13th, 2016 (09:57 AM) Attachments:1,597

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Tap In's Corner

Old June 5th, 2016, 09:08 PM   #591 (permalink)
grappling dummy
Hawaii at the beach
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, TOS
Broker/Data: S5
Favorite Futures: ES, fine alcohol and muscle cars
 
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Tap In View Post
Average reasonable movement of price in my favor: 13.2 ticks
Average reasonable movement of price against: 13.4 ticks

This tells me a lot.

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Old June 6th, 2016, 12:10 AM   #592 (permalink)
Elite Member
san fransisco, CA/USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC, TS
Broker/Data: TS
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, ZB, EUR, CL
 
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maybe you need bigger stop over the reasonable average you have...like 14 tick?
and maybe a shorter target like 10 tick.....

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Old June 6th, 2016, 01:21 AM   #593 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bend, OR
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
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Favorite Futures: CL, GC, NG, YM, 6E, ZN
 
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KahunaDog View Post
Look at your success rates on the breakout trades. You should check your stats on if you dropped the bo strategy.

I try not to trade the kind of breakout I used to trade, which was essentially entering immediately after a break of a large and obvious congestion area. They rarely worked. Most of the breaks I trade are really just pauses after quick and strong impulse moves out of congestion. Sometimes if price is making higher lows or vice versa, and it's apparent they want to take her a good ways, I will jump on board when the volatility picks up on the resumption. I am counting on momentum to carry price at least 10 ticks and sometimes more. I almost never take the break blindly.

In any case, the ones I am picking are not producing at a rate much greater than 50% so I need to somehow apply better filters to get the best of the best.

Your suggestion is a good one. I will try to post more trades. If you see anything that looks suspect please let me know.

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Old June 6th, 2016, 01:35 AM   #594 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bend, OR
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
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xplorer View Post
I feel your pain. Regarding the dilemma above I personally look at it this way: I look to other traders for inspiration regarding things such as setting a bias, daily prep, possible trading frameworks, discipline.

I do not look to other traders for things such as: specific trading methodology, instrument, techniques, setting stop losses, risk/rewards ratios.

The reason is, I do believe that doing certain things over and over will provide experience and skill. As you say there's no use in jumping from one thing to the other when it does not seem to work.

So I believe that there is a certain 'mix' of things that I can benefit from by looking at others and things that I have to stick to do myself. I do not presume to have the right mix. There may be things that I have yet to consider that go in one list or the other. Or I may have some of them in the wrong list. But I do believe in the balance to be found, which feels to me almost like working on the ingredients of a recipe.

Does it make sense?

Makes sense. Most of what I know has been learned from watching others. I have learned a lot from folks here on FIO and other places, so I like to keep my eyes and ears open for ideas that speak to me. As you say, my recipe involves a lot of ingredients taken from other places.

The problem arises when I see people supposedly making money like they're picking up dollars dropping from the sky. This is when the temptation arises to adapt the method of the moment. But I know I would have the same problems with their method as I am now, so I have to take what might help and leave the rest.

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Old June 6th, 2016, 01:37 AM   #595 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bend, OR
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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GruttePier View Post
My experience is that it is very hard to make a losing method profitable by making some changes here and there. You need a "game changer". Something that is slightly profitable for you in the beginning already, and with a lot of potential for making it better by tweaking it.

You can ask yourself the following questions:
- how many months are you trading this method? Look at the basics of your method only
- how much have your results improved?
- how realistic is it that you will get consistently profitable with your current method?

I don't know your answer on these questions, but you might consider experimenting with other methods.
Game changers. If trading is not your source of income, you have enough time and nothing to lose.

What would be an example of a "game changer" in your opinion?

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Old June 6th, 2016, 01:41 AM   #596 (permalink)
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KahunaDog View Post
This tells me a lot.

Of course, these are just averages so they have to be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes it's 55 ticks and sometimes it's 1 tick. It's just a cursory look at how well I am picking the proper direction. Right now it's about even. It's been worse!

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Old June 6th, 2016, 01:55 AM   #597 (permalink)
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jackbravo View Post
maybe you need bigger stop over the reasonable average you have...like 14 tick?
and maybe a shorter target like 10 tick.....

They're just averages so they only give a cursory view of how well I am picking the proper direction. It could be made up of 5 trades that only go 1 tick and one trade that goes 72 ticks, so it's not something that I can base a stop off of.

A better stat might be to look at a distribution over a series of trades to find where 70% of trades would be safe. However, then you would have to compare how price moved in favor on those trades to see if it traveled far enough to warrant the bigger stop. Bigger stops require either more wins or bigger wins.

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Old June 6th, 2016, 03:01 AM   #598 (permalink)
grappling dummy
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Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Tap In View Post
Of course, these are just averages so they have to be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes it's 55 ticks and sometimes it's 1 tick. It's just a cursory look at how well I am picking the proper direction. Right now it's about even. It's been worse!

Like we pmd about. Think of that. Either bigger stop or earlier entry.

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Old June 6th, 2016, 04:51 AM   #599 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
 
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Tap In View Post
What would be an example of a "game changer" in your opinion?

Another method or significant change in the basics of your method.
There are plenty of examples here on FIO.

The point I'm trying to make is, if you've done everything you could in optimizing/fine-tuning your method and it's still not profitable (enough) then you should consider another method (what I called a game changer).
Experimenting 1 month with another method might bring you more than 1 more month with a tweak on your current method.

You mentioned: "But I know I would have the same problems with their method as I am now, so I have to take what might help and leave the rest."
How do you know? Did you try it? Or do you assume it? Why not just try it out and -who knows- surprise yourself?

I'm not saying you should jump from one method to another each month, but it seems like you're stuck for a while now.
You should do something different than you're doing now.

I'm trying to help, not trying to be a d***.
Just my 2 cts.

All the best!

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Old June 6th, 2016, 05:39 AM   #600 (permalink)
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Tap In View Post

Interesting how price has reacted to my areas. In spite of this I continue to have difficulty monetizing my reads

This issue has been one of my biggest focuses lately. I think that as a trader in order to be successful you have to gain a confidence in your ability to anticipate outcomes in a statistically advantageous way. Period. No numbers games, no r/r tweaking. Pure and simple, am I right enough often enough to make this work?

So in order to strip away all of the bs that was possibly standing in the way of me gaining that confidence, I stopped placing orders for a while and am just recording the ideas and watching the charts to see if these ideas might have been profitable IF they were traded correctly.

Not recommending for everyone as different things work for different people. But for me the hope is that by taking things down to the basics of "I believe it is more likely that price will go here next" and not confusing things by always measuring and reflecting every decision in relation to entries / exits placed in a uncertain mindset, perhaps then confidence and certainty and clarity can build from there.

And "method" can come back to a clean slate and written again around all the accumulated skills which one hopefully has developed after watching markets day after day.

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