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Turismo Speed Scalping (YM)
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Turismo Speed Scalping (YM)

  #11 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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tflanner View Post
I would go to the interview. I don't think u r ready to be a profitable trader at this time.

I was in the business for over 10 years before I started trading. I worked on the floor of the Cbot...handling customer orders and then eventually went off on my own to trade. One thing about the floor is that you generally had to work there several years before you started trading. First to Learn and then to save money.

Unfortunately, these entry level jobs don't really exist in the mkt anymore. However, I would encourage to get a job, save money, and stay involved in the mkts in some way...the mkts are not going anywhere...be patient and try to have a long term perspective.

Best of luck

Thanks for your honesty tflanner,

Sounds like a great career you've had,

I'll take what you've said into consideration over the weekend, with regards to 'long term perspective' I'm not sure that a phone sales job in London meets that requirement but I catch your drift.

All the best,

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  #12 (permalink)
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TurismoTek View Post
What do you guys think? Should I go to this job interview in London? Any wisdom from the elders?[/B]

It is simple like hell Do you have savings for the next 1-2 years? If yes, there is no need to go for the opportunity, if no the safe play here, to go for it as well, and find a trading method what you can do next to the job

Full time traderLive journal here
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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
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TurismoTek View Post
[*]I enjoy my own company

Don't take that as an excuse for working alone. I'd rather read a good book than attend a party; I skipped my high school graduation ceremony and prom; but I still love collaborating with people and working with them. I wouldn't have gotten anywhere in life without these people around me at every stage.

TurismoTek View Post
[*]I love trading, I love financial markets, I have been developing my knowledge and trading abilities since I was 16[*]Trading is a passion, that I'm now turning into a career[*]Last time I traded live I turned £6 into £184 in a UK spreadbetting account in one day trading the DJIA, attached below is my statement for those 36 trades

Trading is a passion, but trading solo/daytrading is not a viable path unless you have tremendous starting capital or a stable income. I'd recommend you find a job that you're passionate about, that would nurture you and expect no immediate profit from you (this excludes trading arcades, TST combines, 'trading room', 'trading class' whatever). UK and Amsterdam are thriving financial centers and there cannot be no place that would hire you.

TurismoTek View Post
[*]I've spent thousands of hours observing price action and order flow[*]I'm an economics graduate

I have a girlfriend, she is super awesome and intelligent, next year she'll do her Masters in Amsterdam in economics and I plan to go there and earn money trading whilst she studies

I'm really into fitness and work out pretty much every day, I eat a lot of protein, I squat a lot of weight

That's a wonderful thing! You have the educational background, mental and physical discipline, support and motivation to be successful, which already sets you apart from >50% of the people I've seen interviewing for jobs. You clearly love your girlfriend, you know that she deserves a stable life, and you have the responsibility to work hard for her sake.

So you should really look for a job.

TurismoTek View Post
Last night I talked with my good German friend I was at University with, he found a job in London in recruitment, he is on the phone making 200 calls a day closing sales. He earns a basic salary but the potential for bonuses are high. Like trading it's a performance job, and you get paid a commission for each sale. They have a high turn-over rate, often bringing in graduates like myself, giving them 3 weeks to 3 months to perform and if they do, they keep them on, otherwise "bye bye". Me mentioned he can get me an interview in 2 weeks and I had until the coming Monday to decide whether I wanted to or not.

Be careful to make sure it's not a MLM pyramid scam.

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  #14 (permalink)
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Take the job....and be on the lookout for something better. Build your trading capital. Keep practicing your edge. When you have enough capital, risk some live.... See if you have the mental chops to trade live money....keep the job until you make more trading than you do at the job. Then quit or at least think about it.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci

Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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  #15 (permalink)
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wish you the best!

you're young...

enjoy the moment and live a life full of joy! money is money...as long as you enjoy what you do and enjoy the passion of really learning and observing what moves price, keep it goin'

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  #16 (permalink)
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PandaWarrior View Post
Take the job....and be on the lookout for something better. Build your trading capital. Keep practicing your edge. When you have enough capital, risk some live.... See if you have the mental chops to trade live money....keep the job until you make more trading than you do at the job. Then quit or at least think about it.

Thanks Panda,

I've read your journal many years a go, and much of it inspired me with my style of trading, in fact if there was any methodology from which I took ideas from it was yours, otherwise my style is based on personal observations, so firstly I should probably thank you for that ---- Thank you -----

Likely I'll be reading your newest journal over the weekend too and likely need to thank you again!

I think what you've said has resonated with me the most -- about what I should do and what I want to do -- you've found a balance. I can always practice trading at the US close and perhaps afterwards with the 6E, the slow movements suit me anyway when the market is asleep, it's easier to read order flow, because there is either no order flow or non-conflicted order flow.

I'll have to give this all some thoughts tomorrow,
Today just going to lift some weights, eat some chicken, watch some football, drink some beers

All the best,

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  #17 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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I agree with the others who said, "Get a job first."

You'll need an income to sustain yourself, and then you'll need it to save up enough to be secure so that you won't have to worry if something happens in your life, and then you'll need something to trade with, if and when you are ready to.

But get a floor underneath your feet. First things first.

(Note: sales is not the easiest type of job for most people to succeed at. Some are great at it, some not. So be willing to look at other options also.)


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  #18 (permalink)
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Having my business and a real income outside of trading is the only way I was able to truly focus on trading and not trying to 'make money'. Trading to pay rent, or other bills will put a stress on you that most people cannot handle.

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  #19 (permalink)
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I appreciate everyones comments concerning me getting a job:

But seriously,
I'll take all your comments on board. I still have until Monday to decide whether to pursue this particular job interview.

So thank you!

Post #2

This is going to be a massive post about mentality and psychology. This post contains information and ideas gathered from elsewhere and myself, I am not claiming ownership, just describing things in the best possible way [Others often express better than I can].

I believe it's important to have a winning attitude. In fact, I don't think anybody should be trading unless they think they are making profitable investments, if you don't, I'd suggest you continue learning and making observations until you do recognise high probability situations with such accuracy, it would be stupid not to start trading them. Learning the execution platform is first what simulation is for, and then simulation is for making sure you were right that you've got a winning trading system [System meaning all the aspects that involve your trading business]

How priming impacts your performance:

Feeling like a winner, produces wins.

Below are the psychological considerations taken into account when forming and developing my trading approach, they are also generic rules to adhere to for success in trading. You can take the below and turn it into practical application. E.g. Never turn a winner into a loser = going to breakeven at x ticks profit.


[1] The market pays you to be disciplined.
[2] Be disciplined every day, in every trade. [No exceptions]
[3] Always lower trade size when you’re trading poorly.
[4] Never turn a winner into a loser. [Greed factor]
[5] Never trade beyond daily target.
[6] Develop a methodology and stick with it. [No day to day changes]
[7] You always want to be able to come back and play the next day. [Daily downside limit]
[8] Earn the right to trade bigger.
[9] If the methodology isn’t working in a given trading session, don’t try to devise another one.
[10] Get out of your losers. [Get out of a losing trade once you recognise the trade is no good]
[11] Take losses immediately when you “hope it’ll come back” [Better safe than sorry]
[12] Don’t hope and pray to the Forex Gods. [Just get out]
[13] Don’t worry about the news. It’s history. [Avoid news periods + Reports are old news]
[14] Don’t be a speculator, if you do, you will lose. [Be a trader, small winners small losers]
[15] Love to lose money within your plan. [Accept your going to have losing trades throughout]
[16] If your trade is stagnant in a given timeframe, it’s time to exit. [Capital flow, wait for heat]
[17] Never take a big loss. Only a big loss can hurt you. [Small loss can restart the next day]
[18] Make a little bit everyday. [10 pip daily target, modest, consistency]
[19] Hit singles. Not home runs. [Never approach expecting a big winner]
[20] Don’t try to predict big up or down days. Assume averages.
[21] Consistency builds confidence and control.
[22] Make the same type of trades over and over again. [Build brick by brick by brick]
[23] Don’t over-analyse the trade. [Place the trade and then manage it]
[24] Don’t procrastinate. [Be active in following your plan]
[25] Don’t hesitate. [Execute the plan]
[26] Traders are equal in the eyes of the market [If you are disciplined you win, If not you lose]
[27] The market itself wields the ultimate scale of justice. [It will punish no discipline & greed & arrogance]
[28] Admitting that your entry point was wrong and exiting the trade immediately
[29] Scaling down when things aren't going your way


Opportunities can present at any time, often short-lasting. Successful trading requires consistent focus throughout the trading day in order to take advantage of them. Analysing opportunities based on strategy and probability and executing the trade quickly without hesitation with well-practiced hotkeys.

Behaviours to avoid

[1] Refusing the define a loss
[2] Not liquidating a trade, after acknowledging the trade's potential is greatly diminished
[3] Getting locked into a specific opinion or belief about market direction
[4] Revenge trading "give it back"
[5] Not reversing a position even when you clearly sense a change in market direction
[6] Not following the rules of your trading system
[7] Planning for a move or feeling one building, then being immobilised to hit the bid or offer
[8] Not acting on your instincts and intuition for exiting trades, timing entries and reversing

Desired Skills

[1] Focus on goal achievement, to stay positively focused on what you want -- not on fears.
[2] Learning to recognise the skills required to advanced ones trading and staying focused on developing them, instead of money, which is a by-product of those skills
[3] Learning to adapt and change gears in different market conditions more readily
[4] Identifying the amount of risk you are currently comfortable with, expanding it consistently aligned with your ability to remain objective
[5] Learning to execute trades immediately upon perception of an opportunity
[6] Learning to let the market tell you when you have enough profit, rather than assessing the potential from your personal value system of how much is enough
[7] Learning to structure your beliefs to control your perception of market movement
[8] Learning how to achieve and maintain a state of objectivity
[9] Learning how to recognise "true" intuitive information as opposed to boredom, recklessness by using journalling

Goals as a trader

[1] To maintain a fantastic record of your goals, your mistakes, your rules, your lessons, your trades
[2] To create specific, easy to describe and visualise goals
[3] To set goals realistically, but inspiring
[4] To write goals with a time horizon and time steps with objectives
[5] To write a plan to reach objective goals

Emotions as a trader

  • Moves against you immediately
  • Hit a key and nothing happens
  • Execution not working
  • Hitting wrong key
  • Buying/Selling wrong contracts or when you don't intend to

  • Can't wait for the new trading day
  • Waiting for a stock to reverse
  • Making profit and wanting to make more

  • Making a mistake that makes money
  • Reversing and making money
  • Watching a stock go up/down very fast

  • Your first live trade
  • Your first live winning trade
  • When a trade plays out accurately
  • When you see your balance profitable at the end of a day/week/month

DO's and DONT's

DO stay positive
DO stay inquisitive
DO learn from every trade
DO write a new rule in your journal every time you make an error
DO stop any pattern that hinders your trading
DON'T beat yourself up -- there's always a great trade waiting

Psychological Hurdles

[1] Not defining a loss before executing trades
[2] Not taking a loss/profit when the market reaches your exit point
[3] Getting locked into a belief - going into 'hope' mode
[4] Trading on other trades tips
[5] Kamikaze trading - all or nothing
[6] Euphoric trading
[7] Regret trading
[8] Revenge trading
[9] Being more concerned about being right than preserving capital and making profit
[10] Trying to be perfect
[11] Losing confidence
[12] Lacking consistency in your system
[13] Not being in the right state of mind to trade - control what you can, accept what you cannot


[1] Trading through obstacles like frustration or low morale, even if changing to sim --> Practice makes perfect
[2] Persistence combined with patience, walk away when you know your mindsets wrong


[1] Preserving capital, as a primary short term goal
[2] Predetermining acceptable max loss on the day/week/trade


Not jumping into positions without reasons, number of trades drops, efficiency increases and net profit increases. Selective, with strong reasons to enter.

Battle Plan

Objectives for the day, other quantifiable goals.
Maintaining a sense of control and following ones plan
Nobody will buy a contract at the ask if it is falling quickly in price, and vice-versa, be prepared to pay the spread and execute quickly, no chasing the bid with limit orders and vice-versa

General Trading Axioms

Taking consistent small profits instead of waiting for that one elusive 'big' trade
No overnight positions (applicable to day traders)
When buying into strength, accept the ask and offer at the ask for target
More than one reason for entering a trade
Focus on the market for entry and exit points, intuitive trade management, not on profit or loss.
Don't hope the market will do something, or you're dead. Recognise when you are feeling "hope".
Make decisions on what the market is actually doing, not on "hope" or "it could be"


[1] Good traders don't care about the opinions of other people if they know they are doing the right thing.
[2] They aren't ashamed of their results, even if they are bad. They know they can and will improve and that trading isn't a personal reflection of their value but simply a market place that facilitates the meeting of buyers and sellers to exchange goods and services, the role of the trader being to seek value, like an old bloke buying antique clocks and trying to sell them for a greater value, sometimes they sell, sometimes it's not got much demand - it's not personal.
[3] Hiding mistakes is one way of saying you don't accept the full responsibility of them.
[4] Real winners like open competition, as they do not fear the results, they know the road to winning is not in hiding ones results or ignoring them but in analysing them and improving and learning more, being humble opens the opportunity to improve. Everybody can and must improve, even the best
[5] Good traders accept blame when something happens, helping them build a feeling of control
[6] People who like challenges and set moderate goals, are transparent and potential winners.

Desires and faith

[1] Desire to succeed essential.
[2] Faith in yourself even more essential
[3] Strong desires and a firm belief that success will happen.
[4] Aligning actions to achieve these goals
[5] If in times of adversity, you have doubts, you will abandon your goals and plans too early for fear of failure, you must persist and analyse afterwards if results are negative. To overcome this, having faith in yourself and plan is important.
[6] You may have been very close to your goals, nothing is impossible to the one who has faith.
[7] Be convicted in your own success and make your actions aligned with that belief, never fail because you didn't work hard enough. Work your butt off, and success will come.
[8] Remain positive and continue expending energy on cultivating successful trading practices, not on hating previous mistakes or futile thoughts and actions.

Intuition, feeling the market

Intuition is often conceived by people like it is nothing from nowhere. Intuition builds with experience and observation.

Intuition is a very fast mental process, allowing for very practical applications to executing trades. Such as getting in extremely early in a move, and exiting before a quick turn around occurs.

From watching, learning and experiencing the market every day, some patterns will creep into your subconscious.

When signs of those patterns are repeated, your subconscious will send a message to your conscious to warn you that something is about to happen.

As you receive more of them, you will start to act on it and make money.

Eventually the goal is to extend that process until you feel the market like you feel your heartbeat after exercising.

Have the market in your veins, become one with the market

Instinctive people Vs Analysts

You can not choose your personality and attributions. People who rely more on their intuition and less on their conscious analysis make the best traders. Markets are very fast, without time for conscious analysis, requiring trades without hestitation. People who analyse too much like to try to understand the markets too much, trying to explain every movement and predict every trend and end. This amounts to mass confusion because of the difficult of the task they are amounting, similar to trying to frame a mathematical model that determines the formula of the universe, there are too many needed variables to establish an analysis which genuinely produces accurate predictions. This is not to say trading using conscious analysis processes is not profitable, both types of traders have merits and flaws.

Analysts like to be right too often, with fixed R:R rather than accepting the uncertainty and managing the trades as such. They want win rates greater than 60% whilst only 55% is needed and they stay convicted to their positions whilst the market tells them they are wrong.

Trying to know what happens next all the time will prevent me from taking opportunities quickly and will often get me in too late, therefore requiring sustained order flow for profits, rather than just profiting from the constant small order flow fluctuations that occur throughout every trading day.

Once again, both analysts and intuitive traders can be profitable.

Open-minded traders

Being open-minded allows consideration of more opportunities, finding the best decisions that might be uncommon.

They adapt and evolve, able to try different solutions to problems.

They are more creative and able to find opportunities nobody would have thought about.

  • Admiration, not jealousy
  • Learning from those you admire, not denying them
  • Imitating those you admire

Traders I aspire to:
Paul Tudor Jones
Jesse Livermore
Paul Rotter
George Soros
Lex Van Dam

"All through time, people have basically acted and reacted the same way in the market as a result of greed, fear, ignorance and hope. That is why the numerical formations and patterns recur on a constant basis."

- Jesse Livermore

"I see the younger generation hampered by the need to understand and rationalize why something should go up or down. Usually by the time that becomes self-evident, the move is already over. When I got into the business, there was so little information on fundamentals, and what little information one could get was largely imperfect. We learned just to go with the chart. Why work when Mr. Market can do it for you? These days, there are many more deep intellectuals in the business, and that, coupled with the explosion of information on the Internet, creates the illusion that there is an explanation for everything and that the primary task is simply to find that explanation.

- Paul Tudor Jones

Patience. Discipline. Focus. Belief. Consistency. Confidence

Last edited by TurismoTek; October 18th, 2014 at 02:47 PM.
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  #20 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Posts: 78 since Sep 2014
Thanks: 228 given, 120 received

Quick Update

I've added the CL and FGBL to my permitted markets this week, alongside YM.

I've been trading since 3AM (ET) so will keep this short, as I'm now brain-dead but had a great day of patience.

Was extremely selective today. I use analysis to identify when I want to look for a trade, when I don't and my targets and stops. My entry is very specific. Sometimes I am always taking my entries and then managing the trade and sometimes I wait for specific situations before placing trades (E.g. trapped shorts) Today I was extremely selective about when to utilise my entries and got 7 winners.

+85 ticks in YM (5 trades)
+5 ticks in FGBL (1 trade)
+21 ticks in CL (1 trade)

Enjoyed today, completely in control and making good decisions, without over complicating anything.

Made a huge error by accidentally trading the November contract for CL today, had massive slippage but it still worked out. I had the december CL last week so not sure how this happened.... Cannot happen again! New item to my pre-trading prep.

All the best,

Last edited by TurismoTek; October 20th, 2014 at 02:21 PM.
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