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BenG's trading journal - STIRS markets

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Hi, welcome to my trading journal.

My trade plan trading Euribor futures.

Small size 1-10 contracts.
-Spread or fly trades only, no outrights (although this could be done fairly easily)
-Try to hedge as quickly as possible (This is often harder if you want good entries on both contracts as one will be at market at times)
-Use predominately orderflow for good entry opportunities.
-No more then 3 trades on at any given time.
-report each trade.

Large size 11-500 contracts.
-Spread or fly trades only, no outrights at all.
-Hedge as quickly as possible. (with this sort of size this become a lot more crucial in comparison to small size)
-Use orderflow and yield curve analyses for good entry and exit points.
-No more then 3 trades on at any given time.
-Aim to make 2 or 3 really good trades, rather then 6-8 short trades.(ie let the profit run rather then taking 1 tick on each contract, aim for higher).
-report each trade.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Today trades

1 - ER4ER6 spread 50 lot clip each - unbalanced orderflow entry, yield curve in high range.
2 - ER3ER5 spread 50 lot clip each - unbalanced orderflow entry, yield curve in high range.
3 - ER4ER7 spread 50 lot clip each - Good volatility in ER4 and ER7 upon initial entry.

These sort of trading days suit this slow paced style trading very well. Although I entered quite late in the markets, I was watching it from 7am this morning. Throughout the day there where plenty of good opportunities to enter the market. It's not so common for ER3 and ER4 to be in the opposite direction and the same goes for ER5 and ER6. Normally when I look at the yield curve I either see it being up, down or sideways. Today was a slightly unbalanced day. ER3 and ER4 had opposite orderflow analysis as did ER5 and ER6 when compared to each other. Although I often trade these same contracts, today the market was o/s in ER3 and ER6 yet o/b in ER4 and ER5. I took the first 2 positions very close to each other, and to spread the risk in a more balanced way rather then trading ER3ER4 I decided to trade ER3 with ER5, and ER4 with ER6. ER4 was moving the most and I got filled very quickly on both the entry and exit. This opened the door for ER4 to be used again in another trade, as it was still in a similar position as when I entered. I decided to go for ER7, but as I was getting filled in ER4, ER7 started to move out of balance. For me this meant that the ideal entry position for this contract had already passed and it was no longer a suitable candidate to be used at that given moment in time. It wasn't until later in the afternoon when I started to get some fills here.

Thus far in trade one I got filled on both entry and exit 50 lots on ER4 and got filled 50 lots on entry on ER6 and I'm currently still holding 21 positions waiting to be filled. In the second trade ER3ER5 I got filled on both entry and exit 40 lots on ER3 and 50 lot on both in ER5. In the 3rd trade I have been filled on both in ER4, and currently have been filled on entry for 31 lots in ER7 and on exit 20. I will monitor these positions over the next few hours and then close them accordingly. Ideally I want to be finished by around 4-5 pm but with larger size I find this a lot more difficult to do. Much easier on 10 lot clips to do.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 Big Mike 
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Nice job journaling @BenG.

I want to let you and all your readers know that in October futures.io (formerly BMT) has a Trading Journal contest w/prizes. The contest runs October 1 to October 31, and the three best journals (as decided by futures.io (formerly BMT) members) will receive a 150K combine from TopstepTrader.

The contest thread is here:



That thread will be open for posting starting Wednesday, October 1. As the author of your journal, you need to make a post in that thread linking to your journal, and then ask users to press the "Thanks" button on that post if they want to vote for your journal to win the contest.

Members can vote for as many different journals as they want. Votes are cast in the Contest thread only, and only on the first post made by the author of the journal that contains a link to their journal. This is done so I can easily count the "Thanks Received" by author/journal, and award the three prizes.

Mike

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 108 given, 126 received

Trades

1 - ER4ER6 spread 50 lot clip each - unbalanced orderflow entry, yield curve in high range.
2 - ER3ER5 spread 50 lot clip each - unbalanced orderflow entry, yield curve in high range.
3 - ER4ER7 spread 50 lot clip each - Good volatility in ER4 and ER7 upon initial entry.

Results

1 - ER4ER6 = total 79+, ER4 = 40 ticks, ER6 = 29 ticks.
2 - ER3ER5 = total 92+, ER3 = 42 ticks, ER5 = 50 ticks.
3 - ER4ER7 = total 81+, ER4 = 50 ticks, ER7 = 31 ticks.

Reason for trading

1 and 2 - unbalanced orderflow with the yield curve/price in a high range.
3 - ER4 unbalanced orderflow, ER7 however was more volatile and initial hedge entry missed.

Emotions

It took me a while to enter the market this morning, generally I enter fairly early on. I'm on my desk from around 7am, sometimes a bit later. The initial 2 were very clear trades, no emotion behind it. When ER4 had filled both entry and exit of 50 lots, I became eager to make another trade with it. My lack of patience and my eagerness to enter resulted in ER4 being filled on both entry and exit very quickly, however as I'm spread trading my hedge wasn't being met. On reflection I should have reconsidered the last trade more carefully despite the fact that it was a nice profitable trade. I should have either chosen another contract immediately when I entered ER4 and saw ER7 out of place, or hedge regardless. The latter option wouldn't have been a good choice and I would have gone for another contract.



Overall a profit of 265 ticks.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
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Big Mike View Post
Nice job journaling @BenG.

I want to let you and all your readers know that in October futures.io (formerly BMT) has a Trading Journal contest w/prizes. The contest runs October 1 to October 31, and the three best journals (as decided by futures.io (formerly BMT) members) will receive a 150K combine from TopstepTrader.

The contest thread is here:



That thread will be open for posting starting Wednesday, October 1. As the author of your journal, you need to make a post in that thread linking to your journal, and then ask users to press the "Thanks" button on that post if they want to vote for your journal to win the contest.

Members can vote for as many different journals as they want. Votes are cast in the Contest thread only, and only on the first post made by the author of the journal that contains a link to their journal. This is done so I can easily count the "Thanks Received" by author/journal, and award the three prizes.

Mike

Thanks Mike, I've already posted my journal link in the contest. Although I might not actually be able to use the combine with what I'm trading. If in any case I do win and I can't use it, I will pass the reward on to whomever would have been next in line for the price. I think that would only be fair.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 108 given, 126 received

Trades

1 - ER3ER4 spread 50 lot clips
2 - ER5ER6 spread 50 lot clips
3 - ER7ER8 spread 50 lot clips
4 - ER5ER6 spread 50 lot clips
5 - ER3ER4 spread 50 lot clips

Results

1- ER3ER4 = total 62, ER3 = 34, ER4 = 28.
2- ER5ER6 = total 57+, ER5 = 43, ER6 = 14.
3- ER7ER8 = total 85+, ER7 = 35, ER8 = 50+
4- ER5ER6 = total 50+, ER5 = 50+, ER6 = 5.
5- ER3ER4 = total 50+, ER3 = 50+, ER4 = 41.

Reason

1- Good orderflow opportunities during the morning hours.
2- Good orderflow opportunities during the morning and taking around the same time as trade 1.
3- Good orderflow opportunities during the morning even before the ECB news release.
4- Put this hedge on before the news release to test how hedges work before major news release.
5- Put this hedge on before the news release to test how hedges work before major news release.

In general I would not trade during news releases, or just before news releases. I however wanted to test to find out how spread trades react. Overall it was fine, but I find its better to wait, or wait before exiting positions. When I put on the last 2 trades I got filled fairly quickly on my entry. I had to wait until the speech was over (something I don't have access too at the moment). The market didn't really react before that as much. At around 2pm the market started to react. I initially saw the orderflow with a sell bias. It came down around 4 ticks or so, and then moved back up to roughly 1 tick below my entry. I managed to exit on my sell trades, both ER4 and ER8 where filled really quickly. I still have ER6 and ER7 open and I'm monitoring these until the close and then exit it them wherever they are.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 rleplae 
Gits (Hooglede) Belgium
 
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BenG View Post
Trades

1 - ER3ER4 spread 50 lot clips
2 - ER5ER6 spread 50 lot clips
3 - ER7ER8 spread 50 lot clips
4 - ER5ER6 spread 50 lot clips
5 - ER3ER4 spread 50 lot clips

Results

1- ER3ER4 = total 62, ER3 = 34, ER4 = 28.
2- ER5ER6 = total 57+, ER5 = 43, ER6 = 14.
3- ER7ER8 = total 85+, ER7 = 35, ER8 = 50+
4- ER5ER6 = total 50+, ER5 = 50+, ER6 = 5.
5- ER3ER4 = total 50+, ER3 = 50+, ER4 = 41.

Reason

1- Good orderflow opportunities during the morning hours.
2- Good orderflow opportunities during the morning and taking around the same time as trade 1.
3- Good orderflow opportunities during the morning even before the ECB news release.
4- Put this hedge on before the news release to test how hedges work before major news release.
5- Put this hedge on before the news release to test how hedges work before major news release.

In general I would not trade during news releases, or just before news releases. I however wanted to test to find out how spread trades react. Overall it was fine, but I find its better to wait, or wait before exiting positions. When I put on the last 2 trades I got filled fairly quickly on my entry. I had to wait until the speech was over (something I don't have access too at the moment). The market didn't really react before that as much. At around 2pm the market started to react. I initially saw the orderflow with a sell bias. It came down around 4 ticks or so, and then moved back up to roughly 1 tick below my entry. I managed to exit on my sell trades, both ER4 and ER8 where filled really quickly. I still have ER6 and ER7 open and I'm monitoring these until the close and then exit it them wherever they are.

Was nice talking on the phone today
It helped me understand better your work.

Would love to see some trigger points and understand the triggers
if it can be automated at all ?

For sure, fixed income futures are underexposed on futures.io (formerly BMT) and some demystification could probably help the community
personally i like the instrument as a portfolio diversification and risk reduction method

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
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rleplae View Post
Was nice talking on the phone today
It helped me understand better your work.

Would love to see some trigger points and understand the triggers
if it can be automated at all ?

For sure, fixed income futures are underexposed on futures.io (formerly BMT) and some demystification could probably help the community
personally i like the instrument as a portfolio diversification and risk reduction method

Likewise, it was good speaking to you as well. Despite being in the same industry, it still has such a huge area of diversity.
I haven't yet played around with TT and its strategy function. I know they've made it to be really simple for those of us that haven't got programming experience. For me the initial trigger point is always orderflow readings. So what I look for in a setup is 2 contracts with opposite orderflow readings. ie one with an o/s and another with an o/b reading, ideally no more then 1 year of difference between the 2 contract. I only really use the 3rd till 8th month anyway, the first and second are just not that good for trading. The other main aspect I look at is how the yield curve is functioning. This I find more important for larger quantities, and not so relevant for small quantities. Generally it's fairly easy to get in and out of small sizes. I will take some screen shot of my trade entries tomorrow so you can visualise it much better. I don't use charts and indicators, just MD Trader and a spreadsheet for the yield curve. Perhaps understanding the reasoning behind it, and seeing it might help to understand whether this could be automated.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
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Testing trades of previous day could have been a better result, provided I had looked for a better way of exiting them. As I was impatient and wanted to get out of the trade, I gave most of the ticks i gained in one contract, back in the other. Overall the day was still alright, still managed to take home 330 ticks. Starting on Monday I will take some screenshot of entry triggers for me, to help those who read my journal understand the way I trade, and the things I look for when I look for entries. I noticed that with this sort of trading (ie trading Euribor rather then lets say Bund or Crude), I struggle more to exit. Often in Euribor as it's moving a few against you in a spread you can take another position in the contract that went against you when you see a turning point in the orderflow. This is generally not a good thing to do, but in such a liquid market such as Euribor it's in general very easy to do. This then however makes me more prone to always do it, rather then simply exit. For now though it's not my biggest concern. What I need to stick to is no overnight positions, this is the most important thing. When trading small clip sizes I don't seem to struggle with this, but as soon as you're looking at 50 lot clip or more, I often end up with to many contract unfilled at the end of the day. So it's either adjusting my entry and exit in such a way that it become easier for me to exit, or take less positions. The latter doesn't necessarily means you won't have the same problem, so I will have to focus on fine tuning my entries especially, this will make exiting easier by default. Let's hope next week will be a better week, in which my trading will make more improvements. Over the course of the weekend I can start thinking about how I'm going to achieve these goals.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 108 given, 126 received

Today I wasn't able to trade as I was waiting on my new TT sim details. Unfortunately TT doesn't allow you to sim for free more then 1 month, this means I have to apply for another sim again each month. Usually I get it in time as I apply for it 2 days before it runs out. However this time i received it a bit later. Tomorrow we'll be all back up and running as I've received my new logins late today.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 108 given, 126 received

Today I can finally continue trading.

My first trade of today with an example of what I look for in the orderflow. This is really helpful for small sized trades, and usually I don't really need to look at the yield curve and how that is behaving. When you look at ER3 you can see there is a large queue waiting to be filled on the bid, and if you compare this to ER5 here you can see a lot of orders waiting to be filled on the offer. For me this is the main criteria for small sized spread trades.


Prices do move and things do change, however trades can be adjusted accordingly. So as an example priced moved in both contracts in a relatively short time, away from what I would prefer. I didn't get any fills in ER5 yet so rather then getting filled at a less attractive price, I moved my spread to another price within the same contract. I also could have change the contract all together, which is more often the case in my trading.



I'll keep posting some examples, and at some stage show some large quantity trade examples.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 108 given, 126 received

Today's trades

1 - ER3ER5 spread 20 lot clip each on initial entry.
2 - ER4ER6 spread 20 lot clip each on initial entry.
3 - ER7ER8 spread 20 lot clip each on initial entry.

reason for entry

1 - ER3 and ER5 had opposite orderflow readings. Upon initial entry this looked good, however shortly after entering this changed. I readjusted my position and added another 20 lot clip to ER3 and a 4 lot clip to ER5.
2 - ER4 and ER6 where in a similar position as ER3 and ER5 upon initial entry. Both contracts moved out of position so I added another 20 lot clip to each.
3 - ER7 and ER8 looked really good, these are the more volatile of all the contracts as the expiry moves further away. So ER8 is 2 years from now. These also moved away from the initial good entry position, so I added a 20 lot clip to both contracts.

Results
1 - ER3ER5 = total 80 ticks, ER3 = 60 ticks, ER5 = 21 ticks.
2 - ER4ER6 = total 40 ticks, ER4 = 20 ticks, ER6 = 20 ticks.
3 - ER7ER8 = total 80 ticks, ER7 = 20 ticks, ER8 = 60 ticks.



total result of 201 ticks for the day with all positions closed at 4:30pm GMT time.

Despite the initial moves against my positions I managed to correct each of them, and 2 contract ER3 and ER8 I managed to take to the initial target even with the added positions. Today was a fairly quiet day, but that's no surprise as there is a major news announcement coming up this week. All in all not a bad trading day, and I'm happy I managed to close my positions at a reasonable time. 4pm is ideal, but 30 minutes later is not a big deal to me. I felt relaxed today even though I haven't been able to trade yesterday. I didn't feel I needed to make up for not being able to trade. During this one month of journaling I don't just want to write my trades etc, but also see where I can improve my trading style, explore some options to my trading style, and overall learn more.

EuriborSpread_Day43.csv

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 108 given, 126 received

Today's trades

1 - ER3ER4 spread 20 lot clip each on initial entry.
2 - ER5ER6 spread 20 lot clip each on initial entry.
3 - ER7ER8 spread 20 lot clip each on initial entry.
4 - ER4ER5 spread 20 lot clip each on initial entry.
5 - ER4ER6 spread 20 lot clip each on initial entry.

Reason for entry

1 - ER3 and ER4 had opposite orderflow readings. Upon initial entry this looked good, however shortly after entering this changed a little. Because I wanted to enter both position passively, I only got filled with 5 contracts in ER3, I did however managed to take 2 ticks out of ER3.
2 - ER5 and ER6 where in a similar position as ER3 and E4
3 - ER7 and ER8 looked really good, I wanted however to test something, so rather then entering in the usual place, I did the opposite so that I could get filled on both of them very quickly, and then didn't have to worry about legging. All in all I managed to take profit, however I did have to add to my initial position.
4 - ER4ER5, after my initial ER3ER4 trade I managed to closed my ER4 positions positively fairly quickly. This gave me another opportunity to trade. As it was in the low of its range I was able to use if for some buy positions.
5 - ER4ER6, Nearing the end of trade 4 ER4 was close to finishing, and as ER6 was finished already this gave me another good opportunity to enter another trade. This was the last trade of the day.

Results

1 - ER3ER4 = total 30 ticks, ER3 = 10 ticks, ER5 = 20 ticks.
2 - ER5ER6 = total 43 ticks, ER4 = 23 ticks, ER6 = 20 ticks.
3 - ER7ER8 = total 48 ticks, ER7 = 28 ticks, ER8 = 20 ticks.
4 - ER4ER5 = total 43 ticks, ER4 = 20 ticks, ER5 = 23 ticks.
5 - ER4ER6 = total 40 ticks, ER4 = 20 ticks, ER6 = 20 ticks.



Total result of 206 ticks today doing 5 trades. I had all my positions closed by 7:10pm GMT time. I'm trying to keep it no longer then 5pm, but as I still need to improve my timing I didn't manage to do this today. I'm happy though with the end result, which is always the most important factor. I noticed that if I enter trades early they tend to go against me by a tick or so. Ideal entering times thus far I have found to be between 9:30am and 10am. Today was a very quiet day with even ER8 only ranging 4 ticks. The largest range was ER7 with 5 ticks overall.

EuriborSpread_Day44.csv

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 108 given, 126 received

Today's trades

1 - ER4ER6 spread 25 lot clip each on initial entry.
2 - ER5ER7 spread 25 lot clip each on initial entry.
3 - ER4ER5 spread 25 lot clip each on initial entry.
4 - ER7ER8 spread 25 lot clip each on initial entry.
5 - ER3ER6 spread 25 lot clip each on initial entry.
6 - ER5ER8 spread 25 lot clip each on initial entry.

Reason for entry

1 - ER4ER6 I saw a good trading opportunity with each contract strong on opposite sides.
2 - ER5ER6 where in a similar position as ER4 and ER6.
3 - ER4ER5 after my first trade I managed to use ER4 again for another trade.
4 - ER7ER8 These are not all that often in opposite direction, but I saw a good opportunity.
5 - ER3ER6 slow moving ER3 with relatively moderate movement on ER6.
6 - ER5ER8 I only managed to get filled on ER5, by the time I was filled ER8 had moved dramatically. As I had several positions open that where waiting to get filled for exits, I decided to not enter on ER8 aggressively.

Results

1 - ER4ER6 = total 50+ ticks, ER3 = 25 ticks, ER6 = 25+ ticks.
2 - ER5ER7 = total 50+ ticks, ER5 = 25+ ticks, ER7 = 25+ ticks.
3 - ER4ER5 = total 50+ ticks, ER4 = 25 ticks, ER5 = 25+ ticks.
4 - ER7ER8 = total 50 ticks, ER7 = 25 ticks, ER8 = 25 ticks.
5 - ER3ER6 = total 40 ticks, ER3 = 9 ticks, ER6 = 21 ticks.
6 - ER5ER8 = total 25 ticks, ER5 = 25 ticks, ER8 = 0 ticks.




Overall considering it was a fairly quiet day I managed to make 255 ticks with 6 trades. This is good in terms of walking away with profit. Execution wise I think I can improve lots. I need to pick up on my hedging, as well as get better at picking better spots to enter or exit, especially enter. If there are any other spread traders here I would love to hear your comments. I understand these are only sim, but if it was real money I would do the same or at least similar. I might consider taking less trades, and waiting a little bit longer before entering several at once. However generally speaking this is how I would do it.

EuriborSpread_Day45.csv

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Today's trades

1 - ER3ER4 spread 25 lot clip each on initial entry.
2 - ER6ER8 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
3 - ER5ER7 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
4 - ER3ER4 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.


Reason for entry

1 - ER3ER4 = good orderflow reading to pair these up against each other. I prefer to keep the spreads nice and tight, and two consecutive months work the best for me.
2 - ER6ER8 = I had good orderflow readings on this pair, however I didn't realise that the French Industrial news would have such an impact, so this rapidly changed.
3 - ER5ER7 = same as trade 2. I had to readjust all of them to make the most of them.
4 - ER3ER4 = after finishing the initial trade very quickly when the French news came out, I managed to put on another good position.


Results

1 - ER3ER4, total = 79+ ticks, ER3 = 50+ ticks, ER4 = 23+ ticks.
2 - ER6ER8, total = 226+ ticks, ER6 = 63+ ticks, ER8 = 163+ ticks.
3 - ER5ER7, total = 149+ ticks, ER5 = 99+ ticks, ER7 = 50+ ticks.
4 - ER3ER4, total = 127+ ticks, ER3 = 100+ ticks, ER4 = 27+ ticks.



Overall a good result of 773 ticks for today. I made 4 trades and most of the movement was during the morning, during and after the French Industrial news release. The remaining of the day was very slow, so I'm glad I managed to get a few decent trades in.

EuriborSpread_Day46.csv

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
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Today's trades

1 - ER3ER4 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
2 - ER5ER6 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
3 - ER7ER8 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
4 - ER3ER4 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.


Reason for entry

1 - ER3ER4 = good orderflow reading on both pairs. However during the morning ER3 position went against me, so I added another 20 ticks on the low of the range 99.90.
2 - ER5ER6 = I had good orderflow readings on this pair as well, and made the entry shortly after trade 1. This trade took a little bit longer to complete, but it got there at the end.
3 - ER7ER8 = same as trade 2. I had to readjust this spread.
4 - ER3ER4 = after finishing the initial trade reasonably quickly, I was able to put on another trade with the same pair.


Results

Total = currently 485 ticks, but still have one position open.

1 - ER3ER4, total = 140+ ticks, ER3 = 90 ticks, ER4 = 50+ ticks.
2 - ER5ER6, total = 100+ ticks, ER5 = 50+ ticks, ER6 = 50+ ticks.
3 - ER7ER8, total = 100+ ticks, ER7 = 0 ticks (still open overnight trade), ER8 = 100+ ticks.
4 - ER3ER4, total = 100+ ticks, ER3 = 50+ ticks, ER4 = 50+ ticks.





Overall a decent trading day in which I managed to make 4 trades. I could have made a few more but as I had still a position open, I didn't want to open another one. I still have one trade overnight, which I was trying to get out of, but didnt close it in time before the market close. Thus far I made 0 ticks on that specific trade. We'll see in the morning how it played out. 485 ticks out of 4 trades, which is not bad at all. As a rule I want to start implement something which I think will help me in my trading. Because this is a very different contract to trade in comparison to some others. This market is very very liquid, so not much volatility. This means that when a position goes against you, you can add to this position. This happens all the time, however what I don't want to get into is the habit of keep adding to a position. So I have established a new rule for myself, to help me in my trading and that is to only add to a position once and that's it. This should help me to cut my loser sooner, and to have a specific methodology to deal with it. At first I struggled to find a way to handle it, and do it in such a way that I know it will work. We all know we're going to have losers, this in itself is not a problem. The problem occurs when you're trading something this liquid, and you can add to a position very very easily, and turn the loser into a winner. In a more volatile market I don't struggle to cut the loser, as I'm aware that if I don't it will hurt me more. We'll have to see how this new rule will help, but I think it's better to have a system in place to deal with it, instead of having nothing concrete in place. I will update tomorrow with the final result of my overnight trade.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
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I'm not sure why this keeps happening, but for some reason my laptop still hibernates or sleeps after x period, even though my settings are set to never. This happens even while TT is still running, and for one reason or the other TT doesn't like it at all. When I came back this morning to check up on my trade, I had to restart TT. Although I deselected the fill button in the simulation section, it still deleted everything. Luckily I managed to record every trade I made last night, but I hate open endings. 99.835 was my break even point, the price is currently trading at 99.84, so I would have made another possible 96 ticks.

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Today's trades

1 - ER4ER7 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
2 - ER3ER5 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
3 - ER7ER8 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
4 - ER4ER5 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.


Reason for entry

1 - ER4ER7 = good orderflow reading on both pairs.
2 - ER3ER5 = I had good orderflow readings on this pair as well, and made the entry shortly after trade 1.
3 - ER7ER8 = same as trade 2. However I consider myself acting to hasty and lost patience by entering several position too early, and before a news release.
4 - ER4ER5 = after finishing the initial trade reasonably quickly, I saw a good trade opportunity in ER4ER5.


Results

Total = currently 171 ticks, but still have one position open that's currently -36 ticks.

1 - ER4ER7, total = ticks, ER4 = 18 ticks, ER7 = +/- 50 ticks.
2 - ER3ER5, total = 125 ticks, ER3 = 75 ticks, ER5 = +/- 50 ticks.
3 - ER7ER8, total = -42 ticks, ER7 = -42 ticks (still open overnight trade), ER8 = 0 ticks.
4 - ER4ER5, total = 50 ticks, ER4 = +/- 50 ticks, ER5 = 0 ticks.




Overall not the best day. Sure I've still managed to walk away with some result, however my trading wasn't focused and my entries rather rushed and sloppy. This worked against me and my performance and it took most of the afternoon to get out of the initial bad entered trades. It's not very often I have a losing trade in Euribor, as most of the time you can add to a position and walk away with it. I still added to my positions y'day, however as I've made a new rule recently to cut out possible risk, I can now only add to a position once. This I did, but it took a while to see the price move back into my favour again. 50 lot clips entered, and on several positions an additional 50 lot clip added.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 bd92154 
San Diego
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader/Think or Swim
Broker: TDA/Interactive Brokers/ Data Feed TDA & IBK ( Dropped Kinetick)
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BenG View Post
I'm not sure why this keeps happening, but for some reason my laptop still hibernates or sleeps after x period, even though my settings are set to never. This happens even while TT is still running, and for one reason or the other TT doesn't like it at all. When I came back this morning to check up on my trade, I had to restart TT. Although I deselected the fill button in the simulation section, it still deleted everything. Luckily I managed to record every trade I made last night, but I hate open endings. 99.835 was my break even point, the price is currently trading at 99.84, so I would have made another possible 96 ticks.

Ben,

Even though you are not turning your monitor power off your "Screen Saver" may be kicking in.

Also with a laptop I have found it helpful to set the hard drive and Cooling FAN to never turn off as well, but to each his own.

So three values you want to set to never turn off are Hard Drive power, Monitor, and Set Screen Saver to NONE. That is the safest for not getting kicked off.

Hope this helps.

By the way the easiest way to get to your Screen Saver is to type SCR into your search window after clicking window icon. These GUI interfaces seem to be everything but friendly.


Lastly since you are leaving the laptop on what sounds like 24/7 are you also sure it is not a heating or power issue?

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 108 given, 126 received

Today's trades

1 - ER7ER8 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
2 - ER3ER4 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
3 - ER5ER6 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
4 - ER3ER5ER7 fly 50 lot clip each on initial entry, I didnt manage to get ER5 filled completely for 100 ticks.


Reason for entry

1 - ER7ER8 = good orderflow reading on both pairs.
2 - ER3ER4 = I had good orderflow readings on this pair as well, and made the entry shortly after trade 1.
3 - ER5ER6 = same as trade 2. However I consider myself acting to hasty and lost patience by entering several position too early, and before a news release.
4 - ER3ER5ER7 = after finishing the initial trade reasonably quickly, I saw a good trade opportunity in ER3ER5ER7.


Results

Total = 359 ticks out of 4 trades.

1 - ER7ER8, total = 100+ ticks, ER7 = 50 ticks, ER8 = 50+ ticks.
2 - ER3ER5, total = 100 ticks, ER3 = 50 ticks, ER5 = 50 ticks.
3 - ER5ER6, total = 100 ticks, ER5 = 50 ticks, ER6 = 50 ticks.
4 - ER3ER5ER7, total = 110 ticks, ER3 = 10+ ticks, ER5 = 50 ticks, ER7 = 50 ticks.



Overall a decent day, however there was a lot of movement during the mid afternoon with any major news release out. Not a 100% sure what cause this, whether it was a technical level or traders adjusting their positions. Either way it was an unusual day, something I wished I had recorded so I could look back at it.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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Posts: 106 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 108 given, 126 received

Today's trades

1 - ER4ER5 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
2 - ER3ER6 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
3 - ER5ER7 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
4 - ER3ER8 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
5 - ER3ER7 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.
6 - ER3ER8 spread 50 lot clip each on initial entry.



Reason for entry

1 - ER4ER5 very thin and volatile market, if that was live trading I wouldn't have traded today. I had a decent opportunity though with good orderflow.
2 - ER3ER6 good trade that turned out bad very quickly. I managed to safe it by readjusting my position, however I didn't close ER6 until late Friday afternoon.
3 - ER5ER7 similar to trade 2, market was good upon initial entry, but quickly changed.
4 - ER3ER8 this was made after the initial volatile movement and I managed to spot a good opportunity that played out well. ER3 took a bit longer to close, however this was a better position in comparison to trade 2 and 3.
5 - ER3ER7 ER3 again was very easy to enter and exit, ER7 took a bit longer and needed one adjustment to make it work in my favour.
6 - ER3ER8 ER3 seem to be a clear favourite today even though it was the contract most out of its usual self. ER8 took some adjusting, however I managed to clear this pretty clear and in profit.


Results

Total = 1502 ticks out of 6 trades.

1 - ER4ER5 = 128 ticks, ER4 = 178 ticks, ER5 = 50 ticks.
2 - ER3ER6 = 377 ticks, ER3 = 50 ticks, ER6 = 327 ticks.
3 - ER5ER7 = 234 ticks, ER5 = 184 ticks, ER7 = 50 ticks.
4 - ER3ER8 = 100 ticks, ER3 = 50 ticks, ER8 = 50 ticks.
5 - ER3ER7 = 250 ticks, ER3 = 50 ticks, ER7 = 200 ticks.
6 - ER3ER8 = 350 ticks, ER3 = 50 ticks, ER8 = 300 ticks.




Today was a really strange day for Euribor. It was an extremely thin market with high volatility in comparison to what it usually is. For example ER3 normally moves 3 ticks, sometimes 4 and in the rare case 5. Today it was a 10 tick range. In fact the range in ER3 was bigger then in some of the later months like ER7 and ER8. I had 3 open positions held overnight, which I closed on Friday.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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TurismoTek
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Interesting stuff Ben,

I've heard from a lot of order flow/DOM traders that fixed-income futures is easier to read, it's something I'll have to investigate but my knowledge on these instruments is limited.

How did you learn to trade like this?

Also,
Do you plan to trade your own capital once going live or someone elses?


Hope you don't mind my questions,
Cheers mate.
Turismo

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 BenG 
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Interesting stuff Ben,

I've heard from a lot of order flow/DOM traders that fixed-income futures is easier to read, it's something I'll have to investigate but my knowledge on these instruments is limited.

How did you learn to trade like this?

Also,
Do you plan to trade your own capital once going live or someone elses?


Hope you don't mind my questions,
Cheers mate.
Turismo

Hi Turismo,

i'm not so sure they're "easier" to read. To me it doesn't make a whole lot of difference, however as with any market you need to understand its natural flow. Trading Euribor is boring in general, but I like it because it gives me profitability. There are a few downsides to trading this market, such as adding to a position in general is not a problem to do, but on the rare days like we had last week where the market is very volatile, it's better not too. So one would need to distinguish before hand whether the conditions for adding are being met. Generally no high news releases and high volatility would be a no go for me. In comparison to Crude or some of the other more volatile markets, I would say yes it's much easier to trade. I think as a trader one would need to understand their strengths and weaknesses. I'm in this market to make money full stop. I don't care about the excitements or fun etc

If I had some money spare I would be trading this already, so I'm currently trying to get backed through the company that has trained me, and then trade whoevers money I will be working for.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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TurismoTek
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Hi Turismo,

i'm not so sure they're "easier" to read. To me it doesn't make a whole lot of difference, however as with any market you need to understand its natural flow. Trading Euribor is boring in general, but I like it because it gives me profitability. There are a few downsides to trading this market, such as adding to a position in general is not a problem to do, but on the rare days like we had last week where the market is very volatile, it's better not too. So one would need to distinguish before hand whether the conditions for adding are being met. Generally no high news releases and high volatility would be a no go for me. In comparison to Crude or some of the other more volatile markets, I would say yes it's much easier to trade. I think as a trader one would need to understand their strengths and weaknesses. I'm in this market to make money full stop. I don't care about the excitements or fun etc

If I had some money spare I would be trading this already, so I'm currently trying to get backed through the company that has trained me, and then trade whoevers money I will be working for.

Thanks for responding,

You're right, markets are markets. Few different properties, but still the same element.

I'm exclusively trading high volatility markets, because I find that the order flow energy really gives away incoming large momentum jolts and this is my premise for trades. So in a less volatile market, it would be more difficult for me to find that momentum ignition that I find every 10 minutes in the YM, CL, FDAX.

Still, my most profitable time period for trading is the YM from 6AM ET (11AM london) to the US open, when it is generally much slower, lower volatility, and therefore easier to manage trades. Is this the type of market conditions in the eurex stirs? I'm really unfamiliar with this stuff.

Do you use a calendar for high news releases? Or is something like Econoday and ForexFactory good for bond markets too?

Sorry if you are just here to journal and not to educate,
There is a lack of information regarding STIRS on the internet compared to all the other markets,
so many questions!

All the best,
Turismo

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
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Thanks for responding,

You're right, markets are markets. Few different properties, but still the same element.

I'm exclusively trading high volatility markets, because I find that the order flow energy really gives away incoming large momentum jolts and this is my premise for trades. So in a less volatile market, it would be more difficult for me to find that momentum ignition that I find every 10 minutes in the YM, CL, FDAX.

Still, my most profitable time period for trading is the YM from 6AM ET (11AM london) to the US open, when it is generally much slower, lower volatility, and therefore easier to manage trades. Is this the type of market conditions in the eurex stirs? I'm really unfamiliar with this stuff.

Do you use a calendar for high news releases? Or is something like Econoday and ForexFactory good for bond markets too?

Sorry if you are just here to journal and not to educate,
There is a lack of information regarding STIRS on the internet compared to all the other markets,
so many questions!

All the best,
Turismo

Hi Turismo,

my apology for my late reply. Just came back from a holiday.

In Euribor there isn't much of that momentum spark, however you still have orders lined up, and you still need to look at it in the same way when looking to place an order. The biggest difference between between our markets are that I'm looking at interest rates, and I'm looking at 6 consecutive contracts all at the same time. This is a very different trading style and approach. I'm looking for small fluctuations in prices seeing that they're all the same future, just a different period. IR are not going to change that much between those 6 contracts, so it's spotting good pairs to make a small trade. It's a form of arbitrage, as spreading in general is.

STIRS is definitely a lot easier to learn and manage because its not so volatile, however it's a very different style/type of trading and one would need to be careful not to make the rookie mistakes from when the things go against you. ie in Euribor I can add to my "losing" position and turn it into a winner, and do it regularly. In most trading cutting a looser is a better solution. This "adding" gives room for bad trading habbits to form if you allow it, especially when there is a bit more volatility, thus making it easier to blow your account. I'm trading the NYSE_Liffe Euribor, not the Eurex, although I could as they should be fairly similar. I couldnt say it would be the same type of market condition, however as Shatz, Bobl and Bund are highly corrolated to Euribor, I would def say those contract can have similar conditions to what you're referring to. Worth to have a look at if you're interested.

As with trading any future roll over dates are important to keep in mind, and all EU related news most def. I'm using FF at the moment as a calender. I haven't used squawks etc, which I'm sure are very handy in trading STIRS. FF doesn't cover it all though for STIRS, but I'm sure most calenders wouldnt cover everything, and we also have news releases outside the calender new releases that effect our trading. So yes you can use FF as I have been, however if you're trading a large fund I would suggest not to solely rely on that and have other things at hand like bloomberg/squawks.

Feel free to ask questions, thats why I participated in the contest in the first place. I know the lack of info available. I guess that's because it's mainly profs that trade STIRS so no need for them to really talk about it. I haven't found any other reason why its the case with STIRS. It also doesn't provide excitement, its a very very boring future to trade, with little to nothing happening most of the time. So not much to really talk about even if you wanted too. I hope this helps answering your questions, if not feel free to ask more or elaborate.

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Today's trades

1 - ER3ER4 spread 50 lot clip each.
2 - ER5ER7 spread 50 lot clip each.


Reason for entry

1 - ER3ER4 spread was an early entry with good orderflow readings. No yield curve positioning taking into consideration.
2 - ER5ER7 spread was also showing very good orderflow readings.



Results

Total = 208 ticks

1. ER3ER4 spread, total = 104 ticks, ER3 = 51 ticks, ER4 = 53 ticks.
2. ER5ER7 spread, total = 104 ticks, ER5 = 54 ticks, ER7 = 50 ticks.





I made 2 trades today to get back into the right flow of things after a nice break. I didn't want to jump in doing loads of different trades all at once, but just take it slowly. Overall a decent result of 208 ticks in total.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 BenG 
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Didnt have time the last few days to trade as I've had other things to deal with. Today for some reason Euribor isn't available on NYSE_Liffe. On Eurex it is, but stagnend, so not sure what exactly is going on. Will have a look at it today.

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 CobblersAwls 
London, United Kingdom
 
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Hi BenG,

Are you still spreading? I hope you're still having continued success. If you have the time I'd love to see your latest developments.

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 BenG 
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Hi BenG,

Are you still spreading? I hope you're still having continued success. If you have the time I'd love to see your latest developments.

Hi CobblersAwls,

Hi, I'm still spreading but as it's been only in sim mode it has been very challenging to get backing, even in the UK. It's like trying to become an F1 racing driver. Most firms want you to trade your own money, or at least put a fair amount of money down (risk bond). If I had this available I would be all up for it, but unfortunately I don't have it available at this time so that leaves me with 3 choices of which 1 is considered not an option. The first choice is to gather the money together, which is the most logical choice to go for. The second choice would be to look for alternative ways of trading, end of day trading, swing trading etc anything one can do and still have a full time job, or the latter which I don't consider a choice is to quit. As I've got a family to look after I had to go for option 1 and 2 at the same time. 1 ultimately as I would like to day trade, and 2 for the period I've now entered into, where I need to go out every day to earn a living via other means other then trading. I'm still brainstorming to see how I can apply what I have learned so far, and mold it into a system that will work for me whilst being in full time employment. I see you're based in London. Are you a full time trader?

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 CobblersAwls 
London, United Kingdom
 
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BenG View Post
Hi CobblersAwls,

Hi, I'm still spreading but as it's been only in sim mode it has been very challenging to get backing, even in the UK. It's like trying to become an F1 racing driver. Most firms want you to trade your own money, or at least put a fair amount of money down (risk bond). If I had this available I would be all up for it, but unfortunately I don't have it available at this time so that leaves me with 3 choices of which 1 is considered not an option. The first choice is to gather the money together, which is the most logical choice to go for. The second choice would be to look for alternative ways of trading, end of day trading, swing trading etc anything one can do and still have a full time job, or the latter which I don't consider a choice is to quit. As I've got a family to look after I had to go for option 1 and 2 at the same time. 1 ultimately as I would like to day trade, and 2 for the period I've now entered into, where I need to go out every day to earn a living via other means other then trading. I'm still brainstorming to see how I can apply what I have learned so far, and mold it into a system that will work for me whilst being in full time employment. I see you're based in London. Are you a full time trader?

That's good to hear, at least you're finding success/progress on SIM. I know of a place that would consider you if you could show several months of live trading stats. You would only need to have traded the minimum size to show your method in action and illustrate that you have the psychological strength to trade live.

I don't trade full time unfortunately but that's my goal eventually. Currently I work in a related field in finance and work varying shifts to cover the different shifts. This allows me time to trade the EU or US open sometimes which is good. The rest of the time I just read a lot, make notes and prep for potential trade opps. Once I've got a track record built up on live and I have some funds to support living expenses for 12 months I'll take some time out to try my hand full-time.

Can I ask what got you interested in spreads over outrights? Do you feel that spreads are less risky? I ask because even when spreading you have a position in the market (reversion to/from mean). Any books/threads you could recommend?

Cheers,

Awls

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  #32 (permalink)
omda1
montreal/canada
 
 
Posts: 1 since Feb 2015
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Hi BenG

I am new STIR trader (trading BAX listed in montreal exchange).
Can you please elaborate a little how de you useorderflow and yield curve analyses to spot a good entry .
Thanks for your good thread.

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 joselopezde 
Spain / Europe
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Trading: FESX, FGBL, ES...
 
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BenG View Post
Hi Turismo,

i'm not so sure they're "easier" to read. To me it doesn't make a whole lot of difference, however as with any market you need to understand its natural flow. Trading Euribor is boring in general, but I like it because it gives me profitability. There are a few downsides to trading this market, such as adding to a position in general is not a problem to do, but on the rare days like we had last week where the market is very volatile, it's better not too. So one would need to distinguish before hand whether the conditions for adding are being met. Generally no high news releases and high volatility would be a no go for me. In comparison to Crude or some of the other more volatile markets, I would say yes it's much easier to trade. I think as a trader one would need to understand their strengths and weaknesses. I'm in this market to make money full stop. I don't care about the excitements or fun etc

If I had some money spare I would be trading this already, so I'm currently trying to get backed through the company that has trained me, and then trade whoevers money I will be working for.

It's been a while since your last post, I hope you're doing well. I have some questions for you...

Which company trained you?
Are you still trading spreads?
Did you manage to get into a prop firm?

Answer here or by private message. Thanks in advance

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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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joselopezde View Post
It's been a while since your last post, I hope you're doing well. I have some questions for you...

Which company trained you?
Are you still trading spreads?
Did you manage to get into a prop firm?

Answer here or by private message. Thanks in advance

I only had this online journal for a month so thats why you've not seen me post anymore.


Which company trained you? In relation to my spread trading I got trained by GTC -
https://www.globaltradingcommunity.org/
Are you still trading spreads? No currently not trading spreads as I've just not got that sort of funds laying around but I would definitely have it as part of my trading. Currently just trading outright Dax and SP500 on spreadbet platfom, but even here are to many brokers not exactly working with you and do things like requote (so they dont fill you when you want it) or delayed entry. Also I'm still working full time night shifts in order for me to have a few hours in the morning to do this, so its not exactly an ideal setting.
Did you manage to get into a prop firm? Nope, to many scams here in London and thus far it has costs me a fair bit of money. Generally they require you to either have 12 months plus trade track record, or pay a fee. Thus far I've been through several and paid the fee but they didn't turn out to be what they said they where. If I do decide to go though a firm next, I will visit their trading floor first.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
 
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omda1 View Post
Hi BenG

I am new STIR trader (trading BAX listed in montreal exchange).
Can you please elaborate a little how de you useorderflow and yield curve analyses to spot a good entry .
Thanks for your good thread.

At the moment not trading spreads but the main thing you're looking for during the day is an unbalance in the months that you're tracking. It might help to see this visually on a spreadsheet but even without it you'll need to practice this a bit but you'll get the hang of it when you do it frequently. Very much the same with orderflow really. It's hard to put into words exactly what I'm looking for, but after you've spotted some unbalance you want to look at the orderbook next and look at which months gives u the best orderflow read for a possible entry for one side of the leg, and the exact same for the opposite. Generally the further apart the months are the more differences there potentially can be and thus a more potential profitable trade, however if you're trading the same market I found it important not to use to much of a gap, so generally if I had a March contract I would either use the December or June contract, so the one before or after, and maybe September, but def not Dec after as in some futures this gap can be very wide and you'll need to make sure they stay correlated enough for you're intraday trade, unless you're happy to take on greater volatility and overnight positions, then that's of course a very different story.

Possible further resources for spread trading:

TE Home
Training Program | Genesis Trading
Courses | Trading Courses

I haven't done these courses or haven't reviewed this material to know whether it's any good or not but information on spread trading I have found to be very limited so thought it might be of help.

Don't let money control you, control money!
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