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Learning the ES


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Learning the ES

  #51 (permalink)
SF, CA/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES, 6E, sometimes NQ, and occasionally CL
 
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Amend stop to -4points.
Let it ride begins only after reentry on a cross-recross of the 50MA channel border. First entry is always 5 points target (need to reliably recognize a melt-up day in order to add this exception).


Last edited by jackbravo; October 26th, 2014 at 02:43 PM.
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  #52 (permalink)
SF, CA/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES, 6E, sometimes NQ, and occasionally CL
 
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Posts: 1,334 since Jun 2014
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random thoughts

I started reading Trading and Exchanges Market Microstructure. It's very interesting. A couple of things have crystallized already for me from the introduction.

According to the author, informed traders and speculators win money from less informed traders and gamblers. Given that my market knowledge is still in its infancy, and will be for a quite a while, it reinforces the fact that I just can't be a trader/act like a trader. The only real category I'm able to fit into is scalper, and the question is, can i be profitable as a scalper while I learn to be a trader? 4 tick scalps just do not fit into my personality type. I need something a bit more, so the question is, should I quit altogether or continue to refine my short-term trend following system? Most likely I won't quit (probably bad for my bank account - good thing I have a day job!). However, what this means is that I really need to adhere to guidelines that are favored by scalpers.

1. Profit taking is a must. Letting profits run is something I should NOT aspire to, and should only use in very specific situations.
2. Time in the market is essential. Need to decrease overall time in the market, which can be done a per trade basis or a decreased number of total trades
3. Timing of the market is essential. I have been focused only on direction. Yet, even when correct in direction, my timing has caused my relatively tight stops to trigger me out of trades.
4. Using intermarket relationships and other information used by traders only obfuscates my job as a scalper, as those are more intended for longer time frames than I am interested in.

Acting like a scalper while trying to be a trader has, I believe, contributed to the significant losses of this past week. That, as well my tendency to become emotional and gamble after several losing or otherwise frustrating trades. I'm going to keep these thoughts in mind this week.


Last edited by jackbravo; October 27th, 2014 at 12:41 AM.
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  #53 (permalink)
Valdosta, GA. U.S.A
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra , TOS
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trading rules



jackbravo View Post
I started reading Trading and Exchanges Market Microstructure. It's very interesting. A couple of things have crystallized already for me from the introduction.

According to the author, informed traders and speculators win money from less informed traders and gamblers. Given that my market knowledge is still in its infancy, and will be for a quite a while, it reinforces the fact that I just can't be a trader/act like a trader. The only real category I'm able to fit into is scalper, and the question is, can i be profitable as a scalper while I learn to be a trader? 4 tick scalps just do not fit into my personality type. I need something a bit more, so the question is, should I quit altogether or continue to refine my short-term trend following system? Most likely I won't quit (probably bad for my bank account - good thing I have a day job!). However, what this means is that I really need to adhere to guidelines that are favored by scalpers.

1. Profit taking is a must. Letting profits run is not something I should NOT aspire to, and should only use in very specific situations.
2. Time in the market is essential. Need to decrease over time in the market, which can be done a per trade basis or a decreased number of total trades
3. Timing of the market is essential. I have been focused only on direction. Yet, even when correct in direction, my timing has caused my relatively tight stops to trigger me out of trades.
4. Using intermarket relationships and other information used by traders only obfuscates my job as a scalper, as those are more intended for longer time frames than I am interested in.

Acting like a scalper while trying to be a trader has, I believe, contributed to the significant losses of this past week. That, as well my tendency to become emotional and gamble after several losing or otherwise frustrating trades. I'm going to keep these thoughts in mind this week.

i see you are working at refining your Trading Rules, also working on all other aspects of trading such as Emotions, Entries, Exits, Stops....it is not an easy task getting everything worked out.
I wanted to ask what size Charts you are watching while you Trade...i have seen 15 minute in your thread , but i have not seen every post.
If you want to try and improve your short term trading system...it might help you to test out Multiple time frame, or Size Charts side by side, so as to get a Better view of what is going on.
I Normally am watching at least 2 Charts per Market....one is showing larger Intraday Swings, and the other is smaller, as to get a Better Entry....once i get in i am manageing the trade.....the idea then is to get the most out of what the larger chart is showing me.
Once you get this part figured out with the Charts, and feel comfortable with what you are seeing, you will start getting a bit more confident.
Have you tried any Renko type bars for your charting?

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  #54 (permalink)
SF, CA/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES, 6E, sometimes NQ, and occasionally CL
 
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Posts: 1,334 since Jun 2014
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sandptrader View Post
i see you are working at refining your Trading Rules, also working on all other aspects of trading such as Emotions, Entries, Exits, Stops....it is not an easy task getting everything worked out.
I wanted to ask what size Charts you are watching while you Trade...i have seen 15 minute in your thread , but i have not seen every post.
If you want to try and improve your short term trading system...it might help you to test out Multiple time frame, or Size Charts side by side, so as to get a Better view of what is going on.
I Normally am watching at least 2 Charts per Market....one is showing larger Intraday Swings, and the other is smaller, as to get a Better Entry....once i get in i am manageing the trade.....the idea then is to get the most out of what the larger chart is showing me.
Once you get this part figured out with the Charts, and feel comfortable with what you are seeing, you will start getting a bit more confident.
Have you tried any Renko type bars for your charting?

I just started using Renko 2.5, but still not accustomed to it.

I watch the 2000tck and 5000tck charts, 40500tck, 15min, 45min, 135min. I also keep an eye out on 2 min and 5 min charts, 500tck, but find these shorter time frames get me in trouble with what I'm aiming for, so I'm cutting them out.

EDIT: This is the main tab I trade off:



Last edited by jackbravo; October 27th, 2014 at 01:01 AM.
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  #55 (permalink)
Valdosta, GA. U.S.A
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra , TOS
Trading: 6E, ES, CL, GC
 
Posts: 498 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 1,879 given, 471 received

Charts


jackbravo View Post
I just started using Renko 2.5, but still not accustomed to it. It looks like it's a bit longer than the 15 min.

I watch the 2000tck and 5000tck charts, 40500tck, 15min, 45min, 135min. I also keep an eye out on 2 min and 5 min charts, 500tck, but find these shorter time frames get me in trouble with what I'm aiming for, so I'm cutting them out.

EDIT: This is the main tab I trade off:


I see what you are watching there...and you are using Tradestation.....i am using Ninjatrader.
I have not used Tradestation , but i know back just before 2000 they had the Trading platform everyone wanted, as they were coming out with Automated Trading.
Anyway...even though we are using two different platforms...i am going to show you what i mainly watch, as far as Charts.
First Chart is the Larger one, and Second smaller for Entries...both are using same Indicators.
These are Renko Type Bars....This might help you, or it may not....you might could find some Indicators similar on Tradstation....but for me it is easier to find Entries this way.

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Name:	ES 12-14 (5 BetterRenko)  10_27_2014.jpg
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  #56 (permalink)
SF, CA/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES, 6E, sometimes NQ, and occasionally CL
 
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thanks for sharing your charts. I appreciate it. I'll have a look at them and figure out how betterRenko is different from Renko.

edit: looks like that renko matches closes to a 2.2-2.4 Renko in tradestation. hard to tell.


Last edited by jackbravo; October 27th, 2014 at 02:00 AM.
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  #57 (permalink)
Valdosta, GA. U.S.A
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra , TOS
Trading: 6E, ES, CL, GC
 
Posts: 498 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 1,879 given, 471 received

Charts


jackbravo View Post
thanks for sharing your charts. I appreciate it. I'll have a look at them and figure out how betterRenko is different from Renko.

Your First 2 Charts are similar Ratio to what i posted....i think if you could find a Good Cycle Indicator to add it might help...something showing Overbought/Oversold Zones...
What is that Flowing through the Chart...looks like a street ....Price is bouncing off of it Nicely in the 5000 Tick chart.

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  #58 (permalink)
San Francisco CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: CQG
Trading: ES
 
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Posts: 139 since Jun 2014
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sandptrader View Post
I see what you are watching there...and you are using Tradestation.....i am using Ninjatrader.
I have not used Tradestation , but i know back just before 2000 they had the Trading platform everyone wanted, as they were coming out with Automated Trading.
Anyway...even though we are using two different platforms...i am going to show you what i mainly watch, as far as Charts.
First Chart is the Larger one, and Second smaller for Entries...both are using same Indicators.
These are Renko Type Bars....This might help you, or it may not....you might could find some Indicators similar on Tradstation....but for me it is easier to find Entries this way.

What is that indicator at the bottom, it looks like a colored stochastic or macd, but nice and smooth!

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  #59 (permalink)
SF, CA/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES, 6E, sometimes NQ, and occasionally CL
 
jackbravo's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,334 since Jun 2014
Thanks: 4,253 given, 2,379 received


Zxeses View Post
What is that indicator at the bottom, it looks like a colored stochastic or macd, but nice and smooth!

i think it's a macd.

i've tried using an RSI-2 for overbought/sold levels at 90/10. i'm not experienced at interpreting it, though watching many youtube videos and reading articles has helped. I took it out because I felt it took my focus away from the main object of hopping on the trend. My goal also is not to maximize my profits, but to be profitable. I tried running the trend last week and got killed, because i'm not just skilled enough to read the charts.

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  #60 (permalink)
SF, CA/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES, 6E, sometimes NQ, and occasionally CL
 
jackbravo's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,334 since Jun 2014
Thanks: 4,253 given, 2,379 received



sandptrader View Post
What is that Flowing through the Chart...looks like a street ....Price is bouncing off of it Nicely in the 5000 Tick chart.

I'ts my river of gold, and what I keep ignoring. sheesh. it's 50 triangular ma channel.

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