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My journal to trade by understanding market's processes and behaviors
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My journal to trade by understanding market's processes and behaviors

  #81 (permalink)
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New direction with PAT ...

Hi all,

I have to admit that I will look into another trading methodology (again, yes, and I know, it might be the holy grail haunting me again but you know, only people that does not act cannot make mistakes).

I did join the CSTA group as mention in early post to help me and I have to admit that after one meeting, it actually did not helped me. Good group but no affinity with me as a day trader.

Same thing with the trading firm I do trade for. I did re-assist (for the 4th or 5th time) at the professional trader education last Sunday (full day) and it kind of mixed me up too.

I have been watching Mack's video (and futures.io (formerly BMT) PAT common Journal, of course which told me to watch Mack!) on PAT for a while (about 2 weeks now) and something important kind of light up inside of me:

1- I was playing with some indicator and I did find myself liking to draw trend lines on the said indicator (something I did strongly rejected in past because I find it too subjective for my exact mind ...)

2- The major forces of the markets are : Trend, range expansion and contraction and I like to add trading velocity.
So if the range size is constantly changing, the trend type (sometime tight channel, sometimes large channel) and the speed of the trading activity is also variable what kind of static indicator (like a SMA30 that I am using) can be useful for a such changing environment ? My answer to this question was none.

And this is what I did learn by watching Mack's stuff. The only tool strong enough (and flexible at the same time) to follow these variable concepts are trend lines.

When a trend changes its angle from A to B a static MA can be usefull in trend A and not usefull anymore in trend B.

Same thing for a tight range versus an expanding range.

And I can continue on and on for a MACD, a short term MA, etc.

Also, it seems that most of you guys here on futures.io (formerly BMT) are using PAT and I cannot ignore that either ...

So my next question will be to trade the ES or stick with INTC (Intel) ... The huge advantage of the ES is that I can watch Mack and all of you guys trading it at the end of the day to re-align myself or as a self correcting process. I am pretty sure I can trade ES for my firm so no issue on that side as well ...

After involving myself with price action I do plan to focus exclusively on psychology of trading.

That is the new plan, I do wish myself good luck with that new departure, many thanks for reading and supporting,

er

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  #82 (permalink)
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erobertsonag View Post

Also, it seems that most of you guys here on futures.io (formerly BMT) are using PAT and I cannot ignore that either ...

I don't know if "most" of people in futures.io (formerly BMT) use it but definitely not the most profitable ones (tigertrader and big mike). I would recommend studying how they trade first.

I still use PAT's method for reading price action and I find it really useful (you'll see me posting regularly on PAT's thread) so I have nothing against it, just think you should see how they trade first.

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  #83 (permalink)
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Malthus View Post
I don't know if "most" of people in futures.io (formerly BMT) use it but definitely not the most profitable ones (tigertrader and big mike). I would recommend studying how they trade first.

I still use PAT's method for reading price action and I find it really useful (you'll see me posting regularly on PAT's thread) so I have nothing against it, just think you should see how they trade first.

Thanks Malthus, do you have any specific thread in mind for seeing/studying how BM and tigertrader do trade ?

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  #84 (permalink)
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erobertsonag View Post
Thanks Malthus, do you have any specific thread in mind for seeing/studying how BM and tigertrader do trade ?

@Big Mike 's thread. Read the last months or year.

Big Mike's day trading method and advice

tigertrader's thread. Again last months or year could do.

ES SP500 Spoo-nalysis

You'll have a hard time because there are a lot of posts, but I tell you now that it's worth it. After you are done studying that, if you still can't make something out of it, then maybe PAT's will help you start (and you could apply what you learned from them).

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  #85 (permalink)
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Malthus View Post
@Big Mike 's thread. Read the last months or year.

Big Mike's day trading method and advice

tigertrader's thread. Again last months or year could do.

ES SP500 Spoo-nalysis

You'll have a hard time because there are a lot of posts, but I tell you now that it's worth it. After you are done studying that, if you still can't make something out of it, then maybe PAT's will help you start (and you could apply what you learned from them).

Tx for your response @Malthus. I did consult both thread and I really like BM's collection of toughs (for the one I did consult) while the @tigertrader's thread seem to be a complete different animal when comparing to the thread ''PATs - Price Action Trading - Elite Members Common Journal'' started by @trendwaves.

Also, I have to confess to you that I did bought Mack's book right after posting my new direction post which was before receiving your advices ... And now it kind of burn my hands not to read it !

I do like the simplicity of Mack's stuff and the simplicity of @trendwaves's thread when comparing with the ''ES SP500 Spoo-nalysis'' thread.

Do you think it is absolutely mandatory to go through @tigertrader's thread to be a successfull trader or following the ideas behind @trendwaves's thread and Mack's PAT can do the job ? I was under the impression that these guys were also good successfull traders. Also, I do not have a large appetite as for revenue, my long term goal will be to make around 300$ per trading session (or per day) and I will be more than happy with that.

I thought I was in good hand by following ''PATs - Price Action Trading - Elite Members Common Journal''.

What do you think? Many thanks again for your time,

er

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  #86 (permalink)
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You can definitely be profitable with PATs and it's a good start. If you trade long enough you'll end up trading more like them probably, that's why I adviced to start with them.

Regarding the manual, it wasn't very useful for me. The daily videos explain in more detail how he trades and readS the price action. The only thing I would recommend (based on my experience with PATs, every person is different and it might not work for you) is to be a little flexible with your targets. Mack uses a 2 point stop and 1 point target (2:1 Risk/Reward), and that's crazy, specially if you are starting to trade. I only made a step forward in my trading when I started looking at least for 1:2 Risk/reward (the more the better).

Good luck!


Last edited by Malthus; April 8th, 2015 at 08:06 AM.
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  #87 (permalink)
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First Trade after many hours of study ...

Hi all,

First, I did actually liked the book and did read it twice. But the most important, well for me, is the Daily Trading Review (18 mb pdf) that is joined with the book. This is the same thing as Mack's video but on paper. It was his reviews before doing the videos. Daily reviews from December 2010 to August 2011 (302 pages document).

The difference with the videos is that all trade are circled while explanations are written on the next page. What I like to do is to identify the pattern (most of the time there is at least 2 patterns) at my own speed and review after with the answers. It did allowed me to take a tan this week-end while studying outside :-)

I did took a trade this PM on INTC. Here it is:

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I know I was not really ready but wanted to give it a shot. I did manage to get out by myself in what I kind of analyzed to be a counter trend trade after the fact. But it was off a failed break out of support in a range (kind of trap) but I think the bullish engulfing bar had already burned the fuel created by the trap .... So I liked that I saw the failed breakout low but the signal bar analysis was poor. But most important, the big trending channel from yesterday has not been identified at entry time ... I kind of find it after my trade but It should have been found before ... Also, I was supposed to wait for at least a 2 legged-move down before going long and it had done only one leg down when I did enter which makes my trade a counter trend trade.

My plan is to prepare a one sheeter reminder as I had and I will work on this in the before putting another trade. I will start with a 10 minute analysis for the large trend identification on my sheet. Will share the said sheet when done.

Good night all,

er

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  #88 (permalink)
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erobertsonag View Post
I thought I was in good hand by following ''PATs - Price Action Trading - Elite Members Common Journal''.
What do you think?
er

I also liked PAT for it's simplicity after using several indicators last year. However I felt that volume got very little attention. I am not good at identifying patterns like channels while it's evolving. I often saw what I wanted to see to justify my entry. Ofcourse, it looks obvious after the market close or after I was stopped out!

I see that you started off with Market in Profile - Dalton. You had them in your charts as late as March 2015. Are you still using those principles?

I strongly believe that volume (and the intent) is the reason price changes (not otherway around - usually) and I also like Auction Market theory for it's simplicity. FT71 and L2ST are great teachers with lot's of free info. May I ask why you moved away from MP (if you were) and looking to add another methodology?


Last edited by Narcissus; April 13th, 2015 at 10:24 PM.
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  #89 (permalink)
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Narcissus View Post
I liked PAT for it's simplicity after using several indicators last year. However I felt that volume got very little attention. I am not good at identifying patterns like channels while it's evolving. I often saw what I wanted to see to justify my entry. Ofcourse, it looks obvious after the market close or after I was stopped out!

I think price is like the score card in a match. Yes it's important but I realised that the score changes b'cas of what's happening on the field with the players, whom I compare to volume. I strongly believe that volume is the reason price changes (not otherway around) and I strongly encourage you to add volume analysis into your method. I like Auction Market theory and it's simplicity but it doesn't provide you entry/exit signals.

Please bear in mind that I am a beginner (trading for less than year but mostly breakeven) usually trading live after a brief sim with new platform Ninja. Ofcourse you can decide after seeing my results in a month or so. Proof is in the pudding, right?

Volume was my main trigger signal in my previous strategy and with PAT and Mack there is no room for that according to their rules ... Many thanks for the hockey comparison, I really like it especially that Ottawa did the playoff and they will take Montreal in the first round ... :-) I do definitely keep your comment in mind. when I did my new trading plan tonight I had a strange feeling when I got rid of my volume signal at entry ... And it was my most important signal ... And now I have your comment which is 100% in alignment with my old strategy which was based on Damon Palvatos strategy too ...

I keep that in mind ... But on a trade based chart you see less info in volume unless you add a bar time duration indicator that you have to look with the volume .... The candles are better on trade based chart but the volume shows less information ... A kind of trade off ... My very old strategy was on a trade based chart with volume and a bar time duration indicator. Here is my same chart with both indicators:

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Here is a 3min with volume:

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Not that obvious as we can see, well on these charts ... But I know that there is an edge with volume and I totally agree with you ...

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  #90 (permalink)
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New Trading plan Version 2015-04-13


Hi all,

Finally I decide to generate a new trading plan before my new cheat sheet ...

Here it is in pdf.

Enough for today for me,

er

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