COMMON SENSE - Trading Journals | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


COMMON SENSE
Updated: Views / Replies:79,113 / 1,262
Created: by mfbreakout Attachments:812

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Closed Thread
 812  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

COMMON SENSE

  #141 (permalink)
Elite Member
London, UK
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT, CQG, esignal, TWS
Favorite Futures: Futures, spot FX, Energy Spreads Prop Firm
 
Posts: 61 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 16 given, 55 received


mfbreakout View Post
One can be trading successfully, for example, for a 10 ticks daily goal for months and in subconsious will start feeling as to what kind of moron he is that day after day he is stuck with the same routine, same approach etc.

I agree with you here. Whilst it wasn't months it was weeks that I ticked along making my +10s and it sounds weird but I almost wanted a small losing day. My subconscious was saying to me, is this it? is this what I have to keep doing? I would add I do a lot of work thinking about 'what if' scenarios and thinking about why people think the way they do. You are 100% on it when you say we are built to evolve, the brain will keep pushing boundaries keep exploring, it's very hard to suppress it.


mfbreakout View Post
Humans are designed to evolve. If one has built entire trading experience against human nature ( a.ka. trading like a machine)- sooner or later human nature will take over and BAM.
Such traders should focus on automated systems. Automated systems are constantly tweaked, enhanced, adjusted etc and thus take care of their creators inherent desire/need to improve and evolve.

Question a trader has to ask as to how he/she wants to take care of this need? Discretionary traders take care of this by constantly improving, adjusting vs acting like a machine.
Automated/Systems traders take care of this need by improving,tweaking their systems.

Problem with the trader in the previous post is that he is going against his own very nature by trying to act like a machine.

to date I have tried to fill this need to evolve by doing this outside of trading. So I try and replace the need to evolve in trading with evolving in another way. i.e. learning languages, other skills etc.


mfbreakout View Post
NOTE: I am not implying that we do not need RULES. Rules based on market structure/context have a chance. Rules based on ones equity size, how much one can afford to loose has no chance in the long term. If one can not afford to participate in the trading game per market structure/context because stop loss is too wide, risk is too much etc. then one is not ready to play the game. This is a very long debate and what is market structure and what kind of risk one should take per market structure is the HOLY GRAIL of trading.

I personally believe it is possible to trade profitable with rules based on market structure/context as well as equity size/stop losses. I believe it is possible but very difficult. I suppose the reason I believe this is I have met 2 traders (both discretionary point and click) where I have seen assets they have purchased from trading profits which they could only have bought with profits from trading. I say that but they could be secret drug smugglers or living off of a 10m+ inheritance. lol.

Of course though I have met plenty of traders who no longer trade and the positive bias causes me to focus on the winners.


Last edited by londonkid; August 2nd, 2014 at 03:43 PM. Reason: grammar
The following user says Thank You to londonkid for this post:
 
  #142 (permalink)
Elite Member
London, UK
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT, CQG, esignal, TWS
Favorite Futures: Futures, spot FX, Energy Spreads Prop Firm
 
Posts: 61 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 16 given, 55 received


mfbreakout View Post
I am biggest fan of SIM trading around. How come i am such a fan?

There are many, many benefits of SIM trading which most traders are familiar with. For me the key benefit is that it provides a trader opportunity to test and push the boundaries. Figure out what's it like being out of comfort zone etc.
Unfortunately, traders use SIM exactly the opposite way.

I used SIM for years trying to straight jacket myself with all kinds of rules. I will SIM trade within so called RULES for months, come to live trading where everything works fine for a certain time ( some time a month, some time more)
and then inherent desire to improve etc. will kick in and BAM. We can only act as a machine for so long.

I will go back to SIM mode thinking i need more discipline and start the cycle all over again without realizing what kind of damage i am doing it to myself.

Now, i use SIM and LIVE trading what's it designed for. To break free of self made useless RULES and focus on RULES which are dictated my market structure/context. I would have never moved away from tight stop loss if i did not practice in SIM plus LIVE to see actually what happens rather than just doing what everybody else seems to be doing.

NOTE: I am not recommending anyone to move away from whatever risk control approach they are using. I am just recommending to try something beyond what's not working in SIM and see if it works for you. There is no need to keep self blaming one self for RULES which has nothing to do what markets are about.

interesting thoughts on SIM. my own beliefs on SIM are it's great for getting used to a new platform but aside from that small stakes live trading is more valuable. I would sooner trade 100 shares of SPY learning than using SIM but trading is very individual and some people like to test more.

The following user says Thank You to londonkid for this post:
 
  #143 (permalink)
Elite Member
London, UK
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT, CQG, esignal, TWS
Favorite Futures: Futures, spot FX, Energy Spreads Prop Firm
 
Posts: 61 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 16 given, 55 received



mfbreakout View Post
Hi Bob,

" If I understand you, those restrictions were not going to work because he was going to want to move ahead as a trader, and if he didn't have an outlet for that desire, the limitations he had put on himself would eventually have to break down, and that's when he ran into trouble."

Correct. It's from personal experience. I have gone through this for many years. At one point i got tired of blaming my self and started to think what are some of the reasons i keep making same mistakes over and over again. Slowly, it dawned on me that putting restrictions on a wrong approach will not work. Maintaining a journal and as result interacting with other traders helped me in realizing some of the stuff. You have a fine journal and interaction via your journal etc. will speed up the learning curve.

That's the reason i started journaling again.

this is an interesting discussion and it's always good to hear from other peoples experience. So when you got tired of blaming yourself for making the same mistakes over and over you removed restrictions. I will check out your journal and see what you are up to. in the meantime I will stick to the 'just follow the rules goddamit' lol.

PS - i just realised this is your journal, I will shut up now.


Last edited by londonkid; August 2nd, 2014 at 03:55 PM. Reason: PS
 
  #144 (permalink)
Elite Member
madrid spain
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: nt
Favorite Futures: None.
 
alejo's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,311 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 16,557 given, 643 received

internals


mfbreakout View Post
Day traders Paradise and we do not have to make forecasts, make projections, worry about HFT, Times and Sales,

Level 11, Ice berg orders and on and on. It was right there. TF YTD is -ve but patient day traders with ability to hold in the right direction with market internals are up nicely on YTD basis.

The ones who forecast TF, ES will be here or there in 2 days, one week etc. and use stop loss to avoid so called NO HEAT keep forecasting.

Anyone betting against direction of $ and market internals ( especially when they are both in sync) has a long way to go.

thank you for your posts, they are very interesting, i enjo them
sorry for my ignorance, could you give me more details about the paradise of internals, what are you using
thanks
alejo

La lucha es de igual a igual contra uno mismo
The fight is fair against oneself
The following user says Thank You to alejo for this post:
 
  #145 (permalink)
Elite Member
BOSTON, MA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation, TOS
Favorite Futures: commodities, TF
 
mfbreakout's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,244 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 3,467 given, 15,240 received

Risk

From private messages i have received, it seems like traders are having a hard time with my 100 ticks stop loss strategy.

Before implementing stop loss strategy , it is IMPERATIVE that a trader proves to himself that he can pick direction of a trend correctly. If wrong in this area- 100 ticks or 200 ticks, it will not work.

ACD helps me with direction and stop loss. If test and personal experience shows that 90% of the time ( except when events like Gilf war is underway) that my 100 ticks stop loss will not get hit it's a trade i take everytime and manage a trade with position size, scale out etc.

The following user says Thank You to mfbreakout for this post:
 
  #146 (permalink)
Elite Member
BOSTON, MA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation, TOS
Favorite Futures: commodities, TF
 
mfbreakout's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,244 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 3,467 given, 15,240 received

paradise


alejo View Post
thank you for your posts, they are very interesting, i enjo them
sorry for my ignorance, could you give me more details about the paradise of internals, what are you using
thanks
alejo


Market internals. On Wednesday, traders/Analysts were making all kinds of forecasts, some calling for bullish moves, some calling for bearish moves etc. On Thursday there were no longs in TF, ES, etc.

My point always has been forecasting is a useless excerise for day traders. When market opens , we lean against collective actions of traders and trade. There were no longs on Thursday and it was based off market generated information not on forecast.

Both attachments show market internals. One for 07-18 and the other for 07/31 ( thursday) etc. 07-18 longs and longs. 07/31 shorts and shorts. Now imagine you picked direction of the move right based on information you have in front of you but mucked it up with a tight stop loss?

I am not sure if your are barcelona fan but i am pretty sure you are a soccer fan.

Attached Thumbnails
COMMON SENSE-2014-07-18_1608_paradise.png   COMMON SENSE-2014-08-01_1135_screen_1.png  

Last edited by mfbreakout; August 2nd, 2014 at 04:52 PM.
 
  #147 (permalink)
Elite Member
madrid spain
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: nt
Favorite Futures: None.
 
alejo's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,311 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 16,557 given, 643 received

soy del barcelona


mfbreakout View Post
Market internals. On Wednesday, traders/Analysts were making all kinds of forecasts, some calling for bullish moves, some calling for bearish moves etc. On Thursday there were no longs in TF, ES, etc.

My point always has been forecasting is a useless excerise for day traders. When market opens , we lean against collective actions of traders and trade. There were no longs on Thursday and it was based off market generated information not on forecast.

Both attachments show market internals. One for 07-18 and the other for 07/31 ( thursday) etc. 07-18 longs and longs. 07/31 shorts and shorts. Now imagine you picked direction of the move right based on information you have in front of you but mucked it up with a tight stop loss?

I am not sure if your are barcelona fan but i am pretty sure you are a soccer fan.

yes, i am from the barca, also i was born in argentina, then i am Leo Messi fan

thank you for your quick answer

then the internal you use
plot the diference of the 2 internal indexes upvol les downvol and adv stock less decl stock
both nyse and nasdaq?

and when you refer to +ve, or -ve, what do you mean?

and teh last one... the A up ,A down setup, where can find info in your posts to understand what you explain about , they failed

thank you very much!
alejo

La lucha es de igual a igual contra uno mismo
The fight is fair against oneself
 
  #148 (permalink)
Elite Member
madrid spain
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: nt
Favorite Futures: None.
 
alejo's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,311 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 16,557 given, 643 received

trader garrapata/moochers


mfbreakout View Post
Most of the traders here at futures.io (formerly BMT) and other forums do not have a chance.

Why?

Because they are basically moochers.

How do i know?

I have talked with Private Banker, Vince Virgil, Gabrieyele and a dozen who posted in my previous journal-
consenus is the same. None of them want to mainatin a journa due to lack of ideas sharing from moochersl. They decided to become vendor and that's the end of their ideas.

I get lonely so i keep posting.

yes, it is really true, i am a moocher(garrapata), i want to learn and try to ask from the master traders, it is dificult to extract them, the problem that we dont sharing ideas is our knowledge/experiences is not comparable to yours, then is dificult and also i think it will not be usefull for you.
is like master/pupil relationship

thanks again for your posts

alejo

La lucha es de igual a igual contra uno mismo
The fight is fair against oneself
 
  #149 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Sarasota FL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 3,633 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 26,745 given, 11,109 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


mfbreakout View Post
From private messages i have received, it seems like traders are having a hard time with my 100 ticks stop loss strategy.

Before implementing stop loss strategy , it is IMPERATIVE that a trader proves to himself that he can pick direction of a trend correctly. If wrong in this area- 100 ticks or 200 ticks, it will not work.

ACD helps me with direction and stop loss. If test and personal experience shows that 90% of the time ( except when events like Gilf war is underway) that my 100 ticks stop loss will not get hit it's a trade i take everytime and manage a trade with position size, scale out etc.

A lot of people do well with big stops. Some use no stops at all.

A wide stop, as I understand the idea, is there mainly as disaster protection. The wide-stop trader usually will decide to terminate a position based on the reason for the trade having been proven wrong, not based on a particular price level being hit.

I think this makes compete sense if you can do it, but I also think it's hard. As of yet, I have not tried it.

On the other hand, have I ever had this experience?:

- I decide trend is down (or up)
- I get in on a strong down bar, my stop is the normal distance away that I usually use
- Price bounces up and takes my stop
- Trend resumes down without me
- I get in on a strong down bar, my stop is the normal distance away that I usually use
- Price bounces up and takes my stop
- Etc., while much cursing goes on, and price keeps going down without me.

Sometimes I have had a string of losses trying to get into a trend that I was right about from the beginning.

So, it does not make sense, to me, to always do either "What I have always done," nor "What everyone knows you should do." A person needs to experiment.

As of today, I am not trying the super-wide stop, because I like having that stop in there to just get me out at a level that I decided on before entering the trade. Once in a trade, I have noticed many times that I am no longer very rational, at least if things start to go wrong. On the other hand, very tight stops can be very tricky. If you are scalping, and you are only going after a very small profit many times a day, then sure, a tighter stop makes sense. But much of the time, it can pay to give the trade some room.

I'm still working on what I think about stops, trade management, and all the rest. After more testing I'll probably know more than I do now.

But sure, wide stops make perfect sense if you then manage your trade appropriately. And what works for one person is what works for them, not necessarily for everyone, nor even for themselves always and forever....

Bob.

The following 2 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
  #150 (permalink)
Elite Member
madrid spain
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: nt
Favorite Futures: None.
 
alejo's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,311 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 16,557 given, 643 received



mfbreakout View Post
Traders using MA etc. are stunned and in disbelief with CL moves. Yesterday 90 ticks move from 102 area after 30

ticks range SONG and DANCE for majority of the day .

The short covering pushed CL into 103.40 area into Asian session and today there are NO TAKERS.

Everyone like to be a PRICE ACTION trader but then they count candles all day and get surprised.

yes, it is.
you know me

La lucha es de igual a igual contra uno mismo
The fight is fair against oneself

Closed Thread



futures io > > > COMMON SENSE

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
a trade on ICPT that totally makes no sense to me..... mdsvtr Options on Futures 3 May 6th, 2014 07:46 PM
Common sense trading decisions Eric j Psychology and Money Management 75 December 6th, 2012 10:12 PM
A Common-Sense View of the Stock Market kbit News and Current Events 0 August 9th, 2012 03:54 PM
Well, At Least One Thing Made Sense Today... Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 November 3rd, 2011 07:50 PM
Death of Common sense kbit Jokes 2 September 11th, 2011 01:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:37 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-13 in 0.19 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.92.194.75