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cunparis journal, thoughts, and more
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cunparis journal, thoughts, and more

  #491 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
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cunparis View Post
One more thing: while I like to say trading on sim is the same as trading real money, and for the most part it is the same. I sometimes get "stressed" on sim. But I think deep down there could be a subconcious psychological difference in that i'm willing to take riskier setups on sim than I would with real money. Something to keep in mind..

Of course sim is different. There is no doubt or debate about this. Sim trading is great for testing a new method, testing an ATM strategy, or learning how stops and targets work. Sim is useful for other things too, but for the most part only cash trading experience will build the necessary skills to be a profitable trader. You can be profitable all day long on sim, for weeks or months on end, and it really mean just about zero in a cash market. The psychology of trading, and everything it encompasses, is what separates the winners from the losers. Not methods, not indicators, but the execution of it -- how you do things, how you perceive them, how you act/react differently in cash vs sim, how you handle fear and greed, etc. Sim does zero to build these things.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
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2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
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4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
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6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
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  #492 (permalink)
Sharpening mental edge
the congo
 
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Big Mike View Post
The psychology of trading, and everything it encompasses, is what separates the winners from the losers. Not methods, not indicators, but the execution of it -- how you do things, how you perceive them, how you act/react

Mike

absolute gold Mike

 
  #493 (permalink)
Elite Member
sweden
 
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SIM vs. cash

The circus marksman bragged to the duelist that he could snap the stem of a wine glass at 100 paces. "Remarkable," replied the duelist, "but can you do it when the wine glass is holding a loaded pistol aimed at your heart?"


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  #494 (permalink)
Market Wizard
virginia
 
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fiki View Post
SIM vs. cash

The circus marksman bragged to the duelist that he could snap the stem of a wine glass at 100 paces. "Remarkable," replied the duelist, "but can you do it when the wine glass is holding a loaded pistol aimed at your heart?"


well said, the hurt/hurl factor looming large in a real trade situation.

 
  #495 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
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lol, love the hurl factor!!


cory View Post
well said, the hurt/hurl factor looming large in a real trade situation.


 
  #496 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
Paris, France
 
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Big Mike View Post
Of course sim is different. There is no doubt or debate about this. Sim trading is great for testing a new method, testing an ATM strategy, or learning how stops and targets work. Sim is useful for other things too, but for the most part only cash trading experience will build the necessary skills to be a profitable trader.

Do you have criteria for when it's better to pass from sim to real money trading?

In the beginning I did very little sim and mostly real money trading and lost a lot. Now that I'm wiser I do a lot of sim and a little real money trading when the setup looks really good.

 
  #497 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
Paris, France
 
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For the poll, only 5 people replied and one was me so video wins.

I have another one though. I'm considering making a trading room. To keep focused it'd have to be based on the way I trade, which includes:

- cycles
- identifying pro activity
- order flow
- volume ladder
- market profile

I think that's a wide range of topics. Any other methods would be distracting so discussion would really have to be limited to the topics above. It has to be focused or it will interfere with my trading.

I'm thinking of FESX from 9-11:30 am European time and ES from 9-11:30 am NY time. I could keep the room open longer but I wouldn't be present outside of those times, except from maybe 2:30 - 3:30 pm NY Time for ES.

I can do something for free without audio or screen sharing. To have those there would be a small cost to cover the fees.

The room would be educational and not to call trades. I can tell when I'm going to take a trade and when I'm in and out but that wouldn't be the point of the room. If I do one with me sharing my desktop I'd share my DOM.

Please let me know what you think by taking 30 seconds to respond to the poll.



 
  #498 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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cunparis View Post
Do you have criteria for when it's better to pass from sim to real money trading?

In the beginning I did very little sim and mostly real money trading and lost a lot. Now that I'm wiser I do a lot of sim and a little real money trading when the setup looks really good.

It will be different for everyone. These are only the roughest of rough of concepts of when to move from sim to cash:

a) You understand how orders work.
b) You understand how your ATM works (NT).
c) You have devised a method/edge you believe in.
d) You have exercised discipline and patience in the execution of the method.
e) You are properly capitalized.

I believe if these are true, then you should start trading cash. Continuing to trade sim isn't going to help you much. It would be at a snails pace. Of course, part of what makes trading difficult is going to cash and then having the fortitude, and capital, to stay alive while continuing your education, and then eventually graduating and not being broke by the time you get there.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #499 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
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Big Mike View Post
It will be different for everyone. These are only the roughest of rough of concepts of when to move from sim to cash:

a) You understand how orders work.
b) You understand how your ATM works (NT).
c) You have devised a method/edge you believe in.
d) You have exercised discipline and patience in the execution of the method.
e) You are properly capitalized.

I believe if these are true, then you should start trading cash. Continuing to trade sim isn't going to help you much. It would be at a snails pace. Of course, part of what makes trading difficult is going to cash and then having the fortitude, and capital, to stay alive while continuing your education, and then eventually graduating and not being broke by the time you get there.

I believe we have different approaches. I believe one should not trade real money until one is consistently profitable on simulator. I don't see a reason to lose money during the learning process.

Once one is consistently profitable on sim that doesn't mean they'll be consistently profitable with real money. With real money come all the psychological problems previously mentioned and sometimes fills & slippage. But if a trader isn't profitable on sim he's not going to be profitable with real money either.

The following user says Thank You to cunparis for this post:
 
  #500 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
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Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,356 given, 83,237 received



cunparis View Post
I believe we have different approaches. I believe one should not trade real money until one is consistently profitable on simulator. I don't see a reason to lose money during the learning process.

Once one is consistently profitable on sim that doesn't mean they'll be consistently profitable with real money. With real money come all the psychological problems previously mentioned and sometimes fills & slippage. But if a trader isn't profitable on sim he's not going to be profitable with real money either.

I agree with you.

But I don't know many traders that aren't profitable on sim. Not ones that actually consider themselves a trader.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.


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