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Trading fast markets
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Trading fast markets

  #561 (permalink)
Elite Member
Cincinnati Ohio
 
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@xelaar @iankotze Thank you both for the glimpse of the man behind the curtain. Its been enlightening.

Robert

nosce te ipsum

You make your own opportunities in life.
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  #562 (permalink)
Elite Member
Hervey Bay Qld Australia
 
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Thanks

Thanks @xelaar for your posts and journal. Its sad to have worked for so long and been so successful for it to have ended the way that it did.

I have appreciated what you have shared and have no doubts you will be back bigger and better.

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  #563 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Houston, Texas
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Topstep Trader announced Wednesday night new changes to the Combine and Funded Trader



iankotze View Post
Mike, the answer is no. Unfortunately things change a bit once you go live. I think there has been some discussion to bring things closer inline still to what is expected once trading on the live account.

Ian and Xelaar, new rules were just released Wednesday night.

Changes effective August 28, 2013

Dear Recruit,

We are making important modifications to our Combine and Funded Trader Rules. These changes will go into effect for new accounts starting August 28, 2013.

Under the new Combine Rules, we've eliminated all performance metric requirements, converted the Max Drawdown rule to a Minimum Balance and increased the Overall Winning Day Percentage requirement by one day. Beyond that, we've revised the Funded Trader Rules and lowered the requirements to become a Senior Trader, enabling those traders to withdraw profits sooner.

If you have any questions about these changes, please tune into Squawk Radio tomorrow, August 22 at 11:00 AM CST for a live Q&A session with our Director of Scouting, John Hoagland. Our broadcast will be open to guests all day, starting at 8:00 AM CST.

As always, if you'd like to be considered for funded status under different parameters, talk to one of our team members about a Customized Combine proposal by calling 312.252.9490. The Minimum Balance conversion will apply to all Combines evaluated under a Custom Objective.

Trade well,

The TopstepTrader Team

---- So this is good news

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  #564 (permalink)
 Vendor: diversifyportfolio.com 
PTA, Gauteng
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Self built + Sierra + TWS
Favorite Futures: Stocks and Options
 
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jlwade123 View Post
Ian and Xelaar, new rules were just released Wednesday night.

Changes effective August 28, 2013

Dear Recruit,

---
---

---- So this is good news

@jlwade123, make sure you do the maths behind every rule change. Don't just take emails like this at face value thinking it 'sounds good' or makes things easier.

Case in point, one of the new rule changes is to implement the minimum balance clause detailed here

In summary, your maximum drawdown trails your maximum end of day account balance until such time as you've reached your maximum drawdown in profits. Only then do you start building more of a cushion. eg:

In a 50k combine your maximum drawdown is $2000. Under the current rules if you were to end day 1 of trading up $1000 your balance would be $51 000. You then have a 'cushion' of $3000 until you reach your max drawdown. ie: $51 000 - $3000 = $48 000

Under the proposed rules, in the same combine after being up $1000 at the end of a day your balance would still be $51000. BUT,..your minimum now trails your max balance and remains at the original $2000. Meaning that your new maximum drawdown is now $51000 - $2000 = $49000. This continues until such time as you've made more than your max drawdown in profits.

What this results in, is essentially instead of being able to build a 'cushion' straight away by moving away from your max drawdown. You actually remain extremely close to your max drawdown until you've made that amount in profits. Only then do you start building a cushion.

Another recent example of where most traders seemed to take rule changes at face value instead of doing the maths behind it was the change from a 'minimum number of days' format to a discreet format, eg:

Using a 50k 20day combine as an example, under the previous rules you had to trade a minimum of 20 trading days in a 60 calendar day period. In 60 trading days there are typically +-42 trading days. The profit target was $5000. So you had 42 trading days to make $5000. An average of 5000 / 42 = $119 per day.

Under the current rules since the change to a discreet format, you only get 20 trading days in a 60 calendar day period (ie: not a minimum of 20 trading days, but a discreet amount). Using the same 50k 20 day combine example, the profit is now $3500. Most traders seemed to think this was great because they took it at face value. Do the maths. An average of $3500 / 20 days = $175 per day is now required.

Both the prior rule change and this one are making the combine incrementally more difficult (and in my opinion more removed from simulating a live trading environment. The rules should better simulate live trading which was the case a few months ago - but that's another discussion). Do the maths on all rule changes.

Diversification is the only free lunch
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  #565 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
@jlwade123, make sure you do the maths behind every rule change. Don't just take emails like this at face value thinking it 'sounds good' or makes things easier.

Case in point, one of the new rule changes is to implement the minimum balance clause detailed here

In summary, your maximum drawdown trails your maximum end of day account balance until such time as you've reached your maximum drawdown in profits. Only then do you start building more of a cushion. eg:

In a 50k combine your maximum drawdown is $2000. Under the current rules if you were to end day 1 of trading up $1000 your balance would be $51 000. You then have a 'cushion' of $3000 until you reach your max drawdown. ie: $51 000 - $3000 = $48 000

Under the proposed rules, in the same combine after being up $1000 at the end of a day your balance would still be $51000. BUT,..your minimum now trails your max balance and remains at the original $2000. Meaning that your new maximum drawdown is now $51000 - $2000 = $49000. This continues until such time as you've made more than your max drawdown in profits.

What this results in, is essentially instead of being able to build a 'cushion' straight away by moving away from your max drawdown. You actually remain extremely close to your max drawdown until you've made that amount in profits. Only then do you start building a cushion.

Another recent example of where most traders seemed to take rule changes at face value instead of doing the maths behind it was the change from a 'minimum number of days' format to a discreet format, eg:

Using a 50k 20day combine as an example, under the previous rules you had to trade a minimum of 20 trading days in a 60 calendar day period. In 60 trading days there are typically +-42 trading days. The profit target was $5000. So you had 42 trading days to make $5000. An average of 5000 / 42 = $119 per day.

Under the current rules since the change to a discreet format, you only get 20 trading days in a 60 calendar day period (ie: not a minimum of 20 trading days, but a discreet amount). Using the same 50k 20 day combine example, the profit is now $3500. Most traders seemed to think this was great because they took it at face value. Do the maths. An average of $3500 / 20 days = $175 per day is now required.

Both the prior rule change and this one are making the combine incrementally more difficult (and in my opinion more removed from simulating a live trading environment. The rules should better simulate live trading which was the case a few months ago - but that's another discussion). Do the maths on all rule changes.

Please cross post this in the AMA and review threads on TST and have a discussion with Mike Patak about them. I've found he is usually quite receptive.

https://futures.io/vendors-product-reviews/25776-topsteptraders-michael-patak-president-ask-me-anything-ask-me-anything.html

https://futures.io/vendors-product-reviews/11360-anybody-heard-topsteptrader-review.html

Mike

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  #566 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Houston, Texas
 
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
@jlwade123, make sure you do the maths behind every rule change. Don't just take emails like this at face value thinking it 'sounds good' or makes things easier.

I thought it was an improvement, on its face, so I put the post up. Thanks for the clarifications.

TST states traders can negotiate customized parameters. So, it would be advisable for anyone considering joining the program to understand these particulars and negotiate something that best suits their trading styles so they can be successful.

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  #567 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation
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Posts: 555 since Jan 2013
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I find the rule that made Alex to get kicked off extremely strange. (and remember I have been criticizing their parameters for months, and finally they are dropping them)

So let's say a trader makes more or less $400 8 times out of a 10 day period but loses $500 twice, then he is kicked off??? Doesn't matter that he still made 2.2K??? Or this rule only applies if one goes negative?? If it applies anytime, it is really a senseless rule...

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  #568 (permalink)
Elite Member
prague, czech republic
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker/Data: LMAX
Favorite Futures: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
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Pedro40 View Post
I find the rule that made Alex to get kicked off extremely strange. (and remember I have been criticizing their parameters for months, and finally they are dropping them)

So let's say a trader makes more or less $400 8 times out of a 10 day period but loses $500 twice, then he is kicked off??? Doesn't matter that he still made 2.2K??? Or this rule only applies if one goes negative?? If it applies anytime, it is really a senseless rule...

Pedro, it's only when negative. If positive - account gets disabled for 24 hours.

Trade to live. Not live to trade.
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  #569 (permalink)
Elite Member
prague, czech republic
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
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jlwade123 View Post
Ian and Xelaar, new rules were just released Wednesday night.

Changes effective August 28, 2013

...

---- So this is good news


I think it is good news. At least makes Combine more like trading live, so you come prepared. Also makes sense psychologically - once you are up certain amount, you can only go down to 0 and end where you started not losing any of your capital. Certainly makes sense for TST but also a good practice for anyone trading their own capital.

As for me, I have decided so far I won't be working on another combine strategy or put very specific effort to get back to funded status with TST. What I will be doing is working on my strategy and look to start taking it live myself gradually. If forward testing goes well, I will start trading it in parallel in Combine with aim if I get funded with them again to trade it side by side with my own stuff. I won't make TST live trading my primary objective anymore, but if it can work as a good supplement - why not. I will be focusing on more position-based approach, so I should have not problem to put orders in several platforms as I normally should have 5-15 minutes to put orders after I get a posible signal.

Working exclusively for TST does not make much sense for me financially nor socially - staying by PC till the night my time was pretty hard and drained me emotionally and actually forced me to come up with some plan to trade more to justify time spent. This was wrong, and I should have better incentives. Let's see how it will develop.

Trade to live. Not live to trade.
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  #570 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Houston, Texas
 
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Platform: NinjaTrader; BloodHound
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Favorite Futures: ES, CL, 6E, UB, 6J, 6B, ZS
 
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xelaar View Post
What I will be doing is working on my strategy .

Buy higher, sell lower....

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