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Trading fast markets

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  #551 (permalink)
thabazimbi limpopo/south africa
 
 
Posts: 27 since Oct 2012
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Big Mike View Post
Do they publish these trading hour restrictions ahead of time?

Sent from my LG Optimus G Pro

Mike, the answer is no. Unfortunately things change a bit once you go live. I think there has been some discussion to bring things closer inline still to what is expected once trading on the live account.

There are restrictions on size, for instance I don't think anybody can trade a 15 lot out of the gate, you first need to make cushion before you can do that.
Also there is a rule to be flat for economic numbers, it used to be like that in the combine but they have changed it so you can trade during numbers, but in the live account this is not possible.
Trading hours I am not very sure about, you need to get approved for the hours you intend to work but I guess it is favored that you trade US session hours out of the gate so you can be monitored.
Then there is the weekly loss limit and also the 10 day review where you best be positive in your account or things like the largest losing day vs winning day that caught Xelaar out comes into play.

I do think scalping is not the way to go here but one must be comfortable taking base hits. Base hits not being scalp trades with very tight stop losses but rather 2 points stop and target ES, 20 ticks Dow, 15 ticks CL and Gold, that kind of thing. Once live there is a great emphasis on building the account slowly and grinding it out. No expectations for big days but a lot of focus on protecting down side risk.

As long as the account is positive you don't have much to worry about from their side. Just keep trading well and make some money. I think getting to the senior traders level requires a lot of patience and control. You best forget about the money you put up in the combine and the time frame you did it in and shift your attention and focus to sustainability by being very patient with the rate the account grows and focusing on just trading to your best ability. Don't rush it as you are no longer required to make a certain amount of money in a certain amount of time. Trade small, trade less. Keep your losing days very small and very limited in number and you should be fine even if it takes much longer than what you would like.

Once a senior trader there are no more rules as such and you can do things differently if you wish, this is probably not such a great idea but the option is there for you to trade different markets, times, sizes or whatever.

It is a very long hard road to consistently make money in the futures market.
Ian

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  #552 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
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Obviously they should provide all the live restrictions upfront, since most people are doing this to get funded - something I disagree with but cannot change. I think people should be doing it for discipline and risk.



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  #553 (permalink)
wa/ usa
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Big Mike View Post
Obviously they should provide all the live restrictions upfront, since most people are doing this to get funded - something I disagree with but cannot change. I think people should be doing it for discipline and risk.




"I will not hit my loss limit (per day or per calendar week).
● I will not hit my max drawdown.
● I will not add to a losing trade.
● I will not hold positions into major economic releases.
● I will adhere to the trading hours.
● I will close my position(s) by 3:10 PM CST.
● I will not hold a position into the electronic close.
● At the start of my day I will trade only _____ lot(s) and will only add to my position or increase my
● size if my total Net P&L is greater than $500 or $1,000.
● I will stop trading for the day if my Net P&L is greater than $500 or $1,000 and my total Net P&L has
pulled back 50% off my high watermark (realized Net P&L high of the day).
● If my total Net P&L is negative for the day, I will stop trading if I experience 3 losing trades in a row.
My largest winning day will be greater than my largest losing day (realized end of day Net P&L). (Enforced
after 10 trading days)

● I will have a winning day percentage greater than 40, in the event that I hit 50% of my max drawdown
(realized end of day Net P&L)"

All these above are part of the trader agreement and requirements once you get funded.

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  #554 (permalink)
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
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Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,740 given, 2,565 received


Big Mike View Post
Just a reminder to everyone that @xelaar wasn't trading the same way he was during the combine.

This is a good lesson about how changes can affect you, and about how hard it is to be consistent with an ever changing market.

Mike

That is correct, Mike. However, I did not blow up, as I mentioned. I did not get even to 25% of maximum draw down and less than 30% of weekly drawdown. All I did I posted a losing day that was larger than my previous largest winning day, that was on day 11 and this rule is enforced after day 10. That was an error on my part in terms I did not realize I have to look backwards for the largest winning day, and was sure I could post a larger winning day in next 10 days. Of course, after I lost extra 30 ticks on that mess with rejected stop, that would be problematic as well. Not impossible, but hard.

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  #555 (permalink)
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,740 given, 2,565 received


iankotze View Post
Mike, the answer is no. Unfortunately things change a bit once you go live. I think there has been some discussion to bring things closer inline still to what is expected once trading on the live account.

There are restrictions on size, for instance I don't think anybody can trade a 15 lot out of the gate, you first need to make cushion before you can do that.
Also there is a rule to be flat for economic numbers, it used to be like that in the combine but they have changed it so you can trade during numbers, but in the live account this is not possible.
Trading hours I am not very sure about, you need to get approved for the hours you intend to work but I guess it is favored that you trade US session hours out of the gate so you can be monitored.
Then there is the weekly loss limit and also the 10 day review where you best be positive in your account or things like the largest losing day vs winning day that caught Xelaar out comes into play.

I do think scalping is not the way to go here but one must be comfortable taking base hits. Base hits not being scalp trades with very tight stop losses but rather 2 points stop and target ES, 20 ticks Dow, 15 ticks CL and Gold, that kind of thing. Once live there is a great emphasis on building the account slowly and grinding it out. No expectations for big days but a lot of focus on protecting down side risk.

As long as the account is positive you don't have much to worry about from their side. Just keep trading well and make some money. I think getting to the senior traders level requires a lot of patience and control. You best forget about the money you put up in the combine and the time frame you did it in and shift your attention and focus to sustainability by being very patient with the rate the account grows and focusing on just trading to your best ability. Don't rush it as you are no longer required to make a certain amount of money in a certain amount of time. Trade small, trade less. Keep your losing days very small and very limited in number and you should be fine even if it takes much longer than what you would like.

Once a senior trader there are no more rules as such and you can do things differently if you wish, this is probably not such a great idea but the option is there for you to trade different markets, times, sizes or whatever.

It is a very long hard road to consistently make money in the futures market.
Ian

Well, Ian, you summed it all. BTW, always enjoyed conversations with you in tst room. Gonna miss it!

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  #556 (permalink)
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
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Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
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Ddawg View Post
Wow, I am blown away xelaar !!! Surely did not seem like you were in any trouble whatsoever, and then BAM!!! I am sorry to hear that a market event like this blew you up.

You had shown such focus and consistency, I too can't help but think that they should have figured out a way to keep you. I mean seriously, there are only 5% winning traders out there, and to just dump you??? I would have to say that it almost seems like they are trying to create failures with their program rather than successes.


Best wishes to you in whatever endeavor you should choose. I believe your grit, determination, and focus will bring you through to success.

Ddawg

Well, there are rule to be followed. I did violate one of them. So all is legit. It was equity partner's decision, Hoag was sympathetic with my case. I am sure I can win another combine with same method and get funded again (if they decide so, this is discretionary, not automatic), but in this case I will have to stick with one and one method that wins that combine. This is where I feel uneasy and not sure I want to put this limitation on myself. As Mike said, if I stuck with the method I traded most in combine and one I have started trading live for TST with, I would be still live and funded and most likely would already hit first threshold to allow trading more size. So it was a misjudgement on my part, where I introduced different risk profile for trades (not something totally new or untested), that put larger risk on any day comparing to my previous days, hence putting a larger losing day.

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  #557 (permalink)
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,740 given, 2,565 received

There is something I want to share about trading success in general, reinforced by TST adventure: the most important thing that contributes to your trading success is consistency. You need to do things in a very specific manner, that you tested and believe is working. In order to be able to do that, you need to write a trading plan that outlines your setup(-s), market state, etc, and need to file a trading log that will help you to remain consistent with trading plan, as you will review your log daily and weekly and see if you deviated from your plan. If you are capable of doing that, the rest is just technicality and can be mastered by 10 years old.

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  #558 (permalink)
Vendor
 
 
Posts: 929 since Oct 2012
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xelaar View Post
It was equity partner's decision, ... As Mike said, if I stuck with the method I traded most in combine and one I have started trading live for TST with, I would be still live and funded and most likely would already hit first threshold to allow trading more size.

1. Who was the equity partner? Has this been identified?

2. I disagree with Mike. You must have discretion to trade and not be hemlocked into one trading strategy.

I move for a motion for reconsideration to the unidentified equity partner. Xelaar was just starting out in the combine and had played by the rules given him, slowly building up the account, ergo, he was building small winning size days up until the WRB gap that knocked him out. Xelaar knows that scalping is not the way to trade gold, and prefers to position trade to build up large account balances. But he has been trading within the confines of the rules set forth in the program and I believe in everyone's opinion given on this trading forum that Xelaar deserves to have this decision reconsidered and allow Xelaar to rejoin the funded program. We need a 2 strike rule on this one.

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  #559 (permalink)
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,740 given, 2,565 received


jlwade123 View Post
1. Who was the equity partner? Has this been identified?

2. I disagree with Mike. You must have discretion to trade and not be hemlocked into one trading strategy.

I move for a motion for reconsideration to the unidentified equity partner. Xelaar was just starting out in the combine and had played by the rules given him, slowly building up the account, ergo, he was building small winning size days up until the WRB gap that knocked him out. Xelaar knows that scalping is not the way to trade gold, and prefers to position trade to build up large account balances. But he has been trading within the confines of the rules set forth in the program and I believe in everyone's opinion given on this trading forum that Xelaar deserves to have this decision reconsidered and allow Xelaar to rejoin the funded program. We need a 2 strike rule on this one.

No that wasn't, I don't care really but I have some ideas. I uderstand you guys are frustrated by this example, but just use as it is, example, if you make a good plan ahead using my experience you will be much better off to avoid similar situation.

As for me, I can now enjoy the rest of the summer. Work on more swingy approach asking for larger profits, and will come back to live trading mid-September after a week of sailing. I have been chained with TST for many long months, time to enjoy freedom again!

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  #560 (permalink)
London England
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Metatrader
Trading: Spot $
 
Posts: 90 since Apr 2012
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xelaar View Post
There is something I want to share about trading success in general, reinforced by TST adventure: the most important thing that contributes to your trading success is consistency. You need to do things in a very specific manner, that you tested and believe is working. In order to be able to do that, you need to write a trading plan that outlines your setup(-s), market state, etc, and need to file a trading log that will help you to remain consistent with trading plan, as you will review your log daily and weekly and see if you deviated from your plan. If you are capable of doing that, the rest is just technicality and can be mastered by 10 years old.

Sorry to hear about whats happened xelaar but no doubt this is now the start of an even better period in your trading. The above is an excellent post that I have taken a lot from so thank you, looking forward to reading about the next chapter in your trading.

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