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Trading fast markets
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Created: by xelaar Attachments:517

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Trading fast markets

  #481 (permalink)
Elite Member
prague, czech republic
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker/Data: LMAX
Favorite Futures: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,739 given, 2,592 received

@nakachalet

I think you are mixing apples and oranges here. While Combine certainly has high educational value, it's not a product designed to tech how to trade. It is designed to verify how well you trade. 400 is what I paid to enter the test and TST refunded me at the end back that 400, so my cost is zero, not 400.

I believe if you receive some pitching from TST for educational stuff that was likely their College of Trader's Development. It was priced at 1495 usd, now it is 2995 due to high demand. This is no way mandatory to take before you can enter the Combine, it is just a totally separate product.

I subscribed for CTD AFTER I have been approved for going live, because I liked a lot Bob Iaccino's analysis and views on market and believe I wanted to rehash my own reading of charts and market with the help of professional traders to be able to trade larger moves successfully on constant basis.

I think if you are a MASTER trader as you "shyly" stated in your trading profile, you should not be concerned with neither CTD nor cost of the Combine, you should be able to crack it in no time. However, something tells me trolling is taking place. But I will let @Big Mike decided on it.

Trade to live. Not live to trade.
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  #482 (permalink)
Membership Temporarily Revoked
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: ninja
Favorite Futures: gc, cl, tf, 6e
 
nakachalet's Avatar
 
Posts: 512 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 559 given, 200 received

perhaps tst has modified its program since....

for your info, i did read their enticing ads many months ago and eagerly sought clarification and assurance. there were also many live calls placed to me seeking my participation but it was not 400 usd for sure. it was more like three times that amount just to buy their materials.... lol

your candid response would help several other traders around here and perhaps several more who visited bmt infrequently.

you did say that it only costs you 400 usd to participate from the beginning to the point where you are now, receiving funding and all?

you did not pay any more than the 400 usd all inclusively, correct?

if what you said is factual in terms of dollars and cents, then newbies should flock to them. 400 usd to learn how to trade profitably and consistently, is really a small sums to pay.

you wanna ascertain that again so everyone on board here would get the fact straight, especially myself and my perhaps faulty memory?

and all the best to you.

will follow your progress as you report it here, with intense interest and thx again for posting.

AND since their lead traders were not willing to show during my conversation with them as to where (not how--which might be a closely guarded secret) their entry and exit were on their live trading charts;

would you be willing to show us a pix or two of your own trading screen, pls? much thx.


xelaar View Post
@nakachalet
Hi, thanks. I believe if you would have been following TST related topics all your questions would be answered. I believe some of your questions shows you did not study their website that is quite clear with information you are seeking.

But here it is in a nutshell:
1. There is a list of permitted products on their website. You select those you want to trade in Combine. This is what you will trade in LivePrep and also live once you passed and while in Junior Trader phase. For me it is gold.
2. I paid 400 usd to enter the Combine and got it all back once finished the LiveTrader Prep. So for me monetary cost is 0. Only my time and efforts but since they improved my trading a lot, this is an asset, not a liability.
3. I don't understand this question. There are very precise rules, when they are broken by trader he goes back to Combine. You can see them on their website, in a sample trading plan for junior traders. And they do make sense to me.


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Trading fast markets-tst-ads-20130708.png   Trading fast markets-tst-ads-_20130708-002.png   Trading fast markets-tst-ads-_20130708-_003.png  
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  #483 (permalink)
Elite Member
prague, czech republic
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker/Data: LMAX
Favorite Futures: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,739 given, 2,592 received


I have put this guy on ignore list, he doesn't seem to ever read any reply he's receiving and just keeps posting nonsense. I am not a spokesperson for TST and do not wish my journal to become a jungle of cultural and language barriers around topstep products.

Trade to live. Not live to trade.
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  #484 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Sarasota FL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 3,642 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 26,780 given, 11,135 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


nakachalet View Post
it was not 400 usd for sure. it was more like three times that amount just to buy their materials.... lol
...
if what you said is factual in terms of dollars and cents, then newbies should flock to them. 400 usd to learn how to trade profitably and consistently, is really a small sums to pay.

Pardon my jumping in here, but I am puzzled by something in your question... for the Combine, TST doesn't charge you to "buy their materials" -- they don't sell any materials. They aren't selling a trading method, either.

They offer you a challenge: if you successfully trade in a simulated account (you trade your method, not anything of theirs), and meet their profit and loss control criteria, they will fund you. That's the Combine. You have to put up a deposit of a few hundred dollars so you have a stake in the game. The amount depends on the size of the simulated account. You get it back if you either (a) do well enough to get funded, or (b) meet all the loss control criteria, and have a profit of at least a dollar, but less than the funding target.

If you don't manage one of these outcomes, you lose the deposit; that's your risk.

I did a Combine that cost $200 at the time. I did not meet the profit target but I made a positive amount and didn't violate the loss limit criteria, and so I got the money back (and I took it as a "rollover", another Combine; but I could have taken cash, as @xelaar did). My cost: $0.00.

That's also xelaar's cost -- $0.00 -- because he got his deposit back.

So, no, they're not offering to charge you $400 usd to learn how to trade; they want you to prove that you already know how to trade. If you do, no charge, and they fund you (basically, they are hiring good traders.)

The Combine is a great experience because of the discipline it requires, but that's what it is. It's not some "here's how you can learn to trade for $400 usd" deal.

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  #485 (permalink)
Elite Member
Grand Rapids, MI USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: CL, GC, ES
 
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Posts: 6 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 0 given, 8 received


xelaar View Post
"Trading&Exchanges" by Larry Harris published by Oxford Press for basics of market internals, price discovery, liquidity, exchange matching mechanisms, etc. Another great book about the principles of Order Flow Trading by Daemon Goldsmith "Order Flow trading for Fun and Profit".

Some great material here, I would add them too...and I like your style. Well done and best wishes on your continued success.

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  #486 (permalink)
Elite Member
prague, czech republic
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker/Data: LMAX
Favorite Futures: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,739 given, 2,592 received

My journal record for today will follow, but here and now I would like to fine-tune my trading plan according to realities of its implementation.

1. I will use 6 ticks for mini-range break out and 3 ticks for stop hunt (twice contracts), and I will trial setting my stop to trailing for range breaks too. It worked well for stop runs and this is what I use, and I have a sense on average it should work better for breaks as well, as it will force to reduce risk even on smaller moves.
2. If breakout fails or order flow weakens before hitting the liquidation level - opt to flatten manually before the stop is hit, same applies if after fake-out price is stuck in negative territory
3. Having this scale out scheme on T4 with fast moving market is somewhat difficult to manage, so I will go back to my old all-in all-out tactics, and will use 12 ticks target as default for all trades, but will opt to reduce target for lower volatility market and increase for higher volatility market, however, the worst I will consider trading is 6 ticks target, i.e. 1:1 for range break and 2:1 for stop run.
4. Most importantly I will not close the trade with flatten out if it is slightly positive, when I have a desire to do so I will just move stop closer and target closer, so to give it a chance to make some ticks.
5. I will only trade each setup/swing once before price goes away and comes back, so I can avoid several losses per one setup as it happened today.


xelaar View Post
Trade mini-breakout setups and stop hunt setups with following parameters:
1. Use 6 ticks stop for both mini-range breakout and stop-hunt
2. If breakout fails or order flow weakens before hitting the liquidation level - opt to flatten manually before the stop is hit, same applies if after fake-out price is stuck in negative territory
3. Use two contracts, both 6 ticks stop, and default 12 ticks target (default setting in T4 contract), however, once position is open or at least OCO submitted look to move target on one contract into a range achievable without experiencing a pullback, i.e. within one standard deviation on 1 minute chart and within Keltner channel deviation, usually it will be 6-8 ticks, and remove a target on second one and leave it to trailing on 2 minutes chart using highs or lows of candles.

This way I should avoid multiple stop outs or break evens when volatility and participation is simply too weak for my fixed targets like it was in case of 15 ticks (I had multiple 8-9 ticks winners that rapidly came back), and allow for good rides on strong movements with no artificially imposed target. This is not ideal setup, I am not a proponent of scaling out as it only reduces profitability, but having a max number of losses as 3 in a row per day and relatively tight weekly loss limit, one needs to compromise ultimate profit for the smoother equity curve. Also it is much better for the psyche to get profits more regularly.


Trade to live. Not live to trade.
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  #487 (permalink)
Elite Member
portland/oregon
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: my fist
Broker/Data: DDT
Favorite Futures: cement
 
Posts: 62 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 39 given, 54 received

Is their a special reason you are not using sierra charts? I just ask since you appear to desire to have a trailing stop that works better for the TST, and since sierracharts connects directly to the T4 and has a decent trailing stop/atm options it would appear to be a good solution for you. just wondering.

the meanest bean of all,
MeanBean
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  #488 (permalink)
Elite Member
prague, czech republic
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker/Data: LMAX
Favorite Futures: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,739 given, 2,592 received


MeanBean View Post
Is their a special reason you are not using sierra charts? I just ask since you appear to desire to have a trailing stop that works better for the TST, and since sierracharts connects directly to the T4 and has a decent trailing stop/atm options it would appear to be a good solution for you. just wondering.

I don't think tools are too important. Besides, T4 has a server-based trailing stop, something very rare, if Sieera is having a different trailing stop it can only be a client-based trailing, since it connects to the same T4 back end. In the end it does not make much difference.

Trade to live. Not live to trade.
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  #489 (permalink)
Elite Member
Oklahoma City OK/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7
Broker/Data: NT7
Favorite Futures: CL
 
pilotui's Avatar
 
Posts: 129 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 110 given, 97 received

Hi can you please review my results?

Hi there, so I am fully committed to trading the 150K combine. This is my first "trial" of my system vs TST rules. I just finished trading this AM session and it's not reflected on the attached image (I was +1,810.00) today.

I would like your feedback on how my report looks, what things I need to clean up and how you think TST would approach my results.

So far I have noticed I either have a quick winning day or a long battle day recovering from losses but always ending up + for the day.

Thanks for your time!

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  #490 (permalink)
Elite Member
prague, czech republic
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker/Data: LMAX
Favorite Futures: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,739 given, 2,592 received


@pilotui

I will let other more experienced Combine takers comment, but I think you know it looks very good, you may only consider to make an effort to improve one of the red metrics you have during the next stage.

Trade to live. Not live to trade.
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