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Trading fast markets


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Updated January 25th 2016 by billbohm
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Trading fast markets

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  #391 (permalink)
wa/ usa
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: schwab, metatrader, OEC,T4,TDameritrade
Trading: CL ES 6C 6E
 
Posts: 260 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 202 given, 446 received


pinebilly View Post


If it is indeed you (must be right?) I find it a bit lame that TopStep is posting achievements based off a sim account. Not trying to steal YOUR thunder at all but its a pretty good marketing gimmick for them because if this IS the case and you are looking at people's profiles you dont know if they are sim or live.

Thoughts?

/Rant on

I find it very strange that in 3 years you have contributed 14 posts and out of that 2-3 are right here. Do you seriously want an answer ?

Nothing against you personally but in general I just wonder why some people dont post at all. futures.io (formerly BMT) is a community that's made "wiser" by each individual doesn't matter how small the contribution.

Anyways, trading the combine and practice account ( I want to separate the two SIM accounts) is totally different. You can check my journal. In practice account I did 9k and 12k back to back days yet I have a hard time making any money in my combine account. And in the practice account I did everything as I normally do, only thing is its got a bigger drawdown limit but I did not hold-them-till-they-turn-winners. I did take losses too. I can't give you a perfect answer cause I am trying to answer that myself why is it like that ? Is it cause there is no consequence ? The cost of combine is hardly a consequence for me personally. The $200-400 cost is not a big deal for me. Is it the mental liability ? I don't know. If I could answer that, I d complete the combine in 1 day.

As far as TST being a gimmick, you'll never know unless you are on the inside. If you think you have it who else is willing to give you a chance at big league for $200. Cellphones cost more than that. And for some people this could be life changing. And besides its someone else's money, if they want to be a fool with it let em be. I don't know why people have to criticize someone's business model. If they were shady, not funding good traders, taking money and running away etc I could understand. So far I have seen 10's of journals and have to find one person who performed well and didnt get funded. If Xelaar didnt get funded it would have raised big red flags for me but he did. For all I know, TST is in it to make money as much as you and I are. You only see how much they charge for combines but they provide the initial drawdown (1500-4500) for all their traders. Even if 20% (more likely40-50%) hit the drawdown imagine how many combines it takes to fill one trader's drawdown requirement. Their payout isnt bad either if you are getting 70-80% if you really are a performer. Most prop firms I know dont pay that.

I am not paid by TST or have any affliation with them but it really irks me when you come expecting something for free. There are plenty of people who wont fork up $50 for futures.io (formerly BMT) membership either but lose 1000's in trading. One thing TST is that they are -Not for Charity.

/Rantoff

Sorry, Xelaar if this sidetracked your journal.

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  #392 (permalink)
Phoenix Arizona
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: MotiveWave
Trading: CL
 
Posts: 125 since May 2013
Thanks: 325 given, 162 received

I agree with garyboy on this. If you dont like their business model, just ignore them. I have to say that I downloaded the T4 demo, and tried out a $150k sim account. Over the 2 week period I made approx $8800, but I had massive drawdown one day of 5K. I think this would have blown me out of the combine. Definitely not as easy as you might think.

One thing this has taught me is that I dont have a good understanding/appreciation of risk. I am not sure that psychologically I could have come back from a loss of 5K, even with a 150K account.

Good trading,
Ddawg

PS BIG props to Xelaar for hitting this thing out of the park!!!! And also your baby girl! woohooo

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  #393 (permalink)
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,740 given, 2,565 received



bojangle View Post
Hi there,

Congrats on the little girl and your trading progress!!!

I only trade the ES and I know that if i were trading 15 contracts with a max daily and weekly drawdown of $3000 and a total of $4500 max drawdown from the starting balance... i might as well be flipping coins and throw my method in the garbage. I think we'd be hard-pressed to find traders with 20 years of profitability able to do that CONSISTENTLY. Even if you don't trade the ES, is it realisitc you can trade with these restrictions in the long-run? If so, all the power to you, but i know without a doubt that i could not.

Top step trader is a cool idea, though they clearly aren't traders if they are choking you off at their stated figures found here: Live Trading | Trading Program | Funded Trader | TopstepTrader. They make their money from the combine. I wouldn't trust these people with a cent. Ask a prop firm owner whose firm has proven profitability - I bet anything they'll tell you their traders could never survive with TTS's restrictions. Trading is a career, not 20 or 30 trades. The long-run is what matters. TTS is all about the short-term. I personally do not believe anyone at the head of TTS has much trading experience... and if they do, they know that with these restrictions and the cost of a combine, it's a gold-mine of a business plan.

thanks for the congrats. I think it no secret that combine fees are a valuable revenue stream for TST and there is nothing shameful.
secrainly my 400 usd do not count as part of it as they refunded it yesterday with no fuss. in regards to harshness of conditions I strongly disagree. I was trading my own live money within similar conditions with very tightrisk controls. in regards to position sizing people for some reason think you have to be swinging whole max size like a madman. some certainly do that but blow quickly. its part of the excersize to be able to restrict yourself to smaller position until you have a cushion. in any case during live prep and junior trader they wont allow to trade max size until daily cushion is built. I can only trade 5 lots until up 1000 on the day.

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  #394 (permalink)
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,740 given, 2,565 received

I had a long 45 minutes call with Hoag yesterday. A real job interview I have to say, recorded. All is good, trading plan is approved. Like they said it takes 2-3 weeks for CTS to set up an account and for legal agreement, w8ben, etc.

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  #395 (permalink)
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,740 given, 2,565 received


garyboy275 View Post
Anyways, trading the combine and practice account ( I want to separate the two SIM accounts) is totally different. You can check my journal. In practice account I did 9k and 12k back to back days yet I have a hard time making any money in my combine account. And in the practice account I did everything as I normally do, only thing is its got a bigger drawdown limit but I did not hold-them-till-they-turn-winners. I did take losses too. I can't give you a perfect answer cause I am trying to answer that myself why is it like that ? Is it cause there is no consequence ? The cost of combine is hardly a consequence for me personally. The $200-400 cost is not a big deal for me. Is it the mental liability ? I don't know. If I could answer that, I d complete the combine in 1 day.

I have been thinking about it myself too, what I came up with is that is a fear of failure. On pure demo you can get a rough patch, but it's not the end of story, you can come back. You did not fail until all equity is gone. But on Combine it's enough to hit DLL or Max DD to be fried. It's a fear of shame, fear of being considered failure that hugely affects our minds.

Hoag asked me yesterday, how I plan to combat the mental issues when switching from demo to live account. I had only one answer - start it very slow, one lot, and add to my personal max position only when booked some profit. He said hmmm approvingly, so I think this is they way to go they consider right as well.

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  #396 (permalink)
wa/ usa
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: schwab, metatrader, OEC,T4,TDameritrade
Trading: CL ES 6C 6E
 
Posts: 260 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 202 given, 446 received


xelaar View Post
I have been thinking about it myself too, what I came up with is that is a fear of failure. On pure demo you can get a rough patch, but it's not the end of story, you can come back. You did not fail until all equity is gone. But on Combine it's enough to hit DLL or Max DD to be fried. It's a fear of shame, fear of being considered failure that hugely affects our minds.

Hoag asked me yesterday, how I plan to combat the mental issues when switching from demo to live account. I had only one answer - start it very slow, one lot, and add to my personal max position only when booked some profit. He said hmmm approvingly, so I think this is they way to go they consider right as well.


Thats how I approached my combine but it can be frustrating. With your personal account you always have secondary income to counter the time factor. Not so in combine. Even though in live trading you can take your time to build the cushion.

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  #397 (permalink)
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,740 given, 2,565 received


garyboy275 View Post
Thats how I approached my combine but it can be frustrating. With your personal account you always have secondary income to counter the time factor. Not so in combine. Even though in live trading you can take your time to build the cushion.

True, time factor makes things interesting, but even then 20 days combine allows over 40 trading days, so for 150k combine it means 400 usd average days, which is not that difficult.

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  #398 (permalink)
Oklahoma City OK/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradovate
Broker: Tradeovate
Trading: NQ/ES/NG
 
pilotui's Avatar
 
Posts: 120 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 118 given, 115 received

Question for you

Hi, I've been lurking for a while and wanted to say congrats!

I have a trading system that gives me the confidence to know I can pass the combine but I am very interested in the process. Can you break it down for me?

1. Pass the combine (20-40 days)
2. Live trader prep (what is the time duration and or profit goal to move on?)
3. Time between passing LTP and getting the interview?
4. What kind of questions were asked in the interview?
5. 2-4 weeks of waiting for CTS and legal stuff

Finally, I feel like having a custom combine would benefit me (mostly the holding winners longer than losers) what has been your experience in that area? A profit only custom combine would require @ $18K profit? Does that sound right (on a 150K 10 day combine)?

Thanks!

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  #399 (permalink)
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
 
xelaar's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 1,740 given, 2,565 received


pilotui View Post
Hi, I've been lurking for a while and wanted to say congrats!

I have a trading system that gives me the confidence to know I can pass the combine but I am very interested in the process. Can you break it down for me?

1. Pass the combine (20-40 days)
2. Live trader prep (what is the time duration and or profit goal to move on?)
3. Time between passing LTP and getting the interview?
4. What kind of questions were asked in the interview?
5. 2-4 weeks of waiting for CTS and legal stuff

Finally, I feel like having a custom combine would benefit me (mostly the holding winners longer than losers) what has been your experience in that area? A profit only custom combine would require @ $18K profit? Does that sound right (on a 150K 10 day combine)?

Thanks!

hi, thanks for the congrats, appreciate it!

1. You can pass in 10-20 days accordingly if your profit target and metrics are done, but maximum it can take is up to 20 to 40 days (for 10 and 20 days combine)
2. LP can take as long as 2 months but the minimum number of days is 10, profit goal for me was 4500 usd, I have heard others were getting a modest profit goal too. I had mine completed after 3rd day but still traded the rest like I did not, not changing to piking, I guess this is what they want to see there in LTP
3. For me the interview with Hoag (not the public interview conducted in chat room) happened 2 days after I emailed them I am ready for the LTP review, after 10 days were completed
4. Pretty much what you expect at job interview: tell about yourself as person, trader, your circumstances, your expectations, legal questions about not being in debt to any future commission merchant (broker) etc.
5. I already have a practice account and a login to live traders room, so considered live trader already, however actual account can arrive in 2-3 weeks as they said, I believe the public interview will be conducted when all is set

I can't answer your question about custom combine - I did a regular 150/20 combine and my holding time metric wasn't good, but you only need to be right on 2 metrics out of 3, my win size was ok and win percentage was ok too. No reason to go custom because just one metric will fail.

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  #400 (permalink)
Oklahoma City OK/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradovate
Broker: Tradeovate
Trading: NQ/ES/NG
 
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Posts: 120 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 118 given, 115 received



xelaar View Post
hi, thanks for the congrats, appreciate it!

1. You can pass in 10-20 days accordingly if your profit target and metrics are done, but maximum it can take is up to 20 to 40 days (for 10 and 20 days combine)
2. LP can take as long as 2 months but the minimum number of days is 10, profit goal for me was 4500 usd, I have heard others were getting a modest profit goal too. I had mine completed after 3rd day but still traded the rest like I did not, not changing to piking, I guess this is what they want to see there in LTP
3. For me the interview with Hoag (not the public interview conducted in chat room) happened 2 days after I emailed them I am ready for the LTP review, after 10 days were completed
4. Pretty much what you expect at job interview: tell about yourself as person, trader, your circumstances, your expectations, legal questions about not being in debt to any future commission merchant (broker) etc.
5. I already have a practice account and a login to live traders room, so considered live trader already, however actual account can arrive in 2-3 weeks as they said, I believe the public interview will be conducted when all is set

I can't answer your question about custom combine - I did a regular 150/20 combine and my holding time metric wasn't good, but you only need to be right on 2 metrics out of 3, my win size was ok and win percentage was ok too. No reason to go custom because just one metric will fail.

Excellent info, thanks for taking the time to answer!

Appreciate it!

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