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Beth's Journey to Make Her Millions
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Beth's Journey to Make Her Millions

  #1471 (permalink)
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I hope you succeed, I can't help you. I had to help myself. I had to make the mistakes and feel the pain so I won't make them again.

But after 2 years you are so low in volume of taking trades, and it scares you to take some trades ? Is that a good direction you're heading ? I personally don't think so.

Last 2 weeks I had only 1 losing day of $15. Let's not call that a BE day, because it's important that I succeed in stopping with $15 and not getting bigtime in the red. You have to know my daily stop loss limit is $1000. I had days I lost close to $3000.

I changed after I did some serious revenge trading in January. The result is that I just take the trades and don't think too much. I think about my rules. I have a slight feeling you think too much. Do big traders think too much ? Is trading for you ? Would you do it again if you would have known 2 years ago how you would feel like you did this week ? After all that money/time/blood and tears ?

I would do it, because I know exactly what's keeping me out of profit. If I can control it like last weeks, I'm extremely profitable. I never really hesitated to trade like you did though. If I hesitate or in doubt, I skip the trade, forget it and look for the next. No need for drama.

I hope to see some changes in the right direction from you and wish you all the best in achieving them. Life is hard, but trading must be harder than life, being a profitable trader is as hard but also as beautiful as a diamond. Many people think they can do it, only a few succeed.

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  #1472 (permalink)
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wgreenie View Post
Hi MetalTrade

Let me address your raised issues as follows:

First, I used to be a perfectionist .. rarely (almost want to say never) think I did well even my employers/customers/co-workers/friends praised me all the time. Being in the trading business for almost 2 years, I have been scoring myself in the red zone since Day 1. To be an over-demanding boss (myself), it's very challenging to perform up to par so far.

Second, it's a solid reality that no 100% profitable holy grail out there. If there's a thing (or more than one) that I can do to add an extra % to the win rate, I will. That explains why my never-ending interests in trying new indicators/methods that may come my way. For example, the most recent addition Ergodic. I spent over 50 hours to better understand a few things on the lines. Time well spent? Yes, even it's tough.

Third, dealing with a losing trade esp its fullstop was hit. Really hard. Used to feel very bad/sad for the whole day (even in my dreams). The last double-SL day (5 Jan) taught me a big lesson. I believe I am better equipped (mentally) for the next one which is inevitable. I hope I am more competent in managing "losing" trades and enjoy some post-trading satisfaction.

Maybe it's in my blood that I take every losing trade too seriously .. like a personal defeat! Did I mention before that I am a hyper-tension type? It's getting better after relocation .. still there 80% lol!

Beth

Beth,

I was you, I am you I am extremely risk averse, and I could not deal with losses. Before starting to trade full time 5 years ago, I was an engineer working for Oracle for 11 years. I had to be right in everything, you cannot be wrong in that kind of job. So losses in trading were hard for me, every loss told me I was a failure, and I'm gonna get fired. I had to come to the realization that trading is one of the only professions where you are expected to be wrong a good amount of the time, and it is a normal part of the job.

My other problem was also pulling the trigger, but I realized I needed to pull the trigger a lot in order to feel comfortable with it, so after months getting comfortable pulling the trigger and refining my system in sim, I wanted to feel comfortable pulling the trigger live, but I wanted to do it with the minimal risk possible. So I started trading the ETF equivalents of the Futures contracts I was interested in, GLD for GC, USO, OIH for CL, IWM for TF, etc. I used the same setups on these ETF's and traded minimal shares like 10 to 100 shares, so I would only loose $2 to $10 on each loser.

In the beginning the $2 commission was more then my trade was worth So for a couple of months I did that because I could take 10 trades a day, loose all of them, and only be out $50 to $100 at the end of the day. It was not about the money, it was about getting use to pulling the trigger live, and also proving my method in a live market, with my training wheels on. At the end of that period, I was actually making $50 to $200 a day taking about 10 ETF trades per day. I could actually make a living out of that! That gave me the confidence to move back to my original intended futures markets.

If you can't fund a stocks day trading account, you can alternatively reduce your risk by trading the cheaper mini futures contracts like YG, 6B, YM, NQ. The YG is $3.32/tick and has good volume and moves very much like the main Gold futures. You can take 3 losses on the YG, and it's equivalent to 1 loss on the GC, that means you can pull the trigger 3 times as much, and get comfortable 3 times faster. If your system is decent, it should make the transition from one of these mini contracts to the larger with minimal issues. Just some ideas you might add to the consideration pot.

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  #1473 (permalink)
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MetalTrade View Post
I hope you succeed, I can't help you. I had to help myself. I had to make the mistakes and feel the pain so I won't make them again.

But after 2 years you are so low in volume of taking trades, and it scares you to take some trades ? Is that a good direction you're heading ? I personally don't think so.

Last 2 weeks I had only 1 losing day of $15. Let's not call that a BE day, because it's important that I succeed in stopping with $15 and not getting bigtime in the red. You have to know my daily stop loss limit is $1000. I had days I lost close to $3000.

I changed after I did some serious revenge trading in January. The result is that I just take the trades and don't think too much. I think about my rules. I have a slight feeling you think too much. Do big traders think too much ? Is trading for you ? Would you do it again if you would have known 2 years ago how you would feel like you did this week ? After all that money/time/blood and tears ?

I would do it, because I know exactly what's keeping me out of profit. If I can control it like last weeks, I'm extremely profitable. I never really hesitated to trade like you did though. If I hesitate or in doubt, I skip the trade, forget it and look for the next. No need for drama.

I hope to see some changes in the right direction from you and wish you all the best in achieving them. Life is hard, but trading must be harder than life, being a profitable trader is as hard but also as beautiful as a diamond. Many people think they can do it, only a few succeed.

Hi MetalTrade

Thanks for your best wishes!

I started my trading business in Mar 2008 (first option spreads) and lost over xx,xxx when I followed the so-called coaches' suggestion. I liquidated most stocks (which I bought in 2006/2007) last year and almost 80% write-off. I have not been generating a penny for over 2 years (since relocation) while making regular withdrawals from my savings to pay for the bills.

If I can turn the clock back, I would start learning how to trade on my own. That way I might be lucky enough and tripped over the Big Mike Forum in Mar 2008 and not Dec 2008. Then this thread would be created months early when I could afford having a 3-time bigger investment pool .. not a weekly loss of $200-$300 etc etc.

You can tell I was seriously burnt with bad trading experiences .. wrong purchase decision .. my own stupidity of course .. sigh .. I realize up-front that it's a challenging journey because I do have a financial baggage on my petite shoulders. I did not have those big debit items when I was single. I cannot turn my back on them after accepting them as part of the married life. I went through months of troubled nights and decided to stay.

I was not from a well-established family (my father passed away when I was 6) though I honestly don't remember a day I needed to worry about anything. It was a simple life with no luxury. I seldom have soft drinks because they're not in my "young" life. I do not wear brand names because I have been price-tag conscious all my life. I worked very hard on improving myself .. often 5-6 classes/week during my working life.

I mentioned before "trading with scared money" was my concern. Now with a smaller SL cushion, I have not been thinking of my petite financial pool for weeks .. it's a breakthrough for me. The last CL trade I took I was psychologically prepared to have SL got hit was comforting because I was willing to hang in there until it proved me 100% wrong.

Trading is part of my life (until a miracle happens). Life has been offering me challenges all along. I will hang in there and gather tons of memorable treasures in the process. No regret .. enjoy the learning .. face every moment positively .. Oh, remember to smile . That's me, I choose to smile more than . I believe I used up all of tears when I was "younger".

Beth

Good Trading is about Trading Right!
Want What the Market Wants!
Trade With the Trend!
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  #1474 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
Beth,

I was you, I am you I am extremely risk averse, and I could not deal with losses. Before starting to trade full time 5 years ago, I was an engineer working for Oracle for 11 years. I had to be right in everything, you cannot be wrong in that kind of job. So losses in trading were hard for me, every loss told me I was a failure, and I'm gonna get fired. I had to come to the realization that trading is one of the only professions where you are expected to be wrong a good amount of the time, and it is a normal part of the job.

My other problem was also pulling the trigger, but I realized I needed to pull the trigger a lot in order to feel comfortable with it, so after months getting comfortable pulling the trigger and refining my system in sim, I wanted to feel comfortable pulling the trigger live, but I wanted to do it with the minimal risk possible. So I started trading the ETF equivalents of the Futures contracts I was interested in, GLD for GC, USO, OIH for CL, IWM for TF, etc. I used the same setups on these ETF's and traded minimal shares like 10 to 100 shares, so I would only loose $2 to $10 on each loser.

In the beginning the $2 commission was more then my trade was worth So for a couple of months I did that because I could take 10 trades a day, loose all of them, and only be out $50 to $100 at the end of the day. It was not about the money, it was about getting use to pulling the trigger live, and also proving my method in a live market, with my training wheels on. At the end of that period, I was actually making $50 to $200 a day taking about 10 ETF trades per day. I could actually make a living out of that! That gave me the confidence to move back to my original intended futures markets.

If you can't fund a stocks day trading account, you can alternatively reduce your risk by trading the cheaper mini futures contracts like YG, 6B, YM, NQ. The YG is $3.32/tick and has good volume and moves very much like the main Gold futures. You can take 3 losses on the YG, and it's equivalent to 1 loss on the GC, that means you can pull the trigger 3 times as much, and get comfortable 3 times faster. If your system is decent, it should make the transition from one of these mini contracts to the larger with minimal issues. Just some ideas you might add to the consideration pot.

Thanks Monpere for sharing your transition process. You can read my mind. When I mentioned making 3-4 pips/trade .. or simply enough to cover commission, this quick in-and-out practice will help me feel more confortable pulling the trigger live more often. At least that's the intention .. will only know its effectiveness after taking some action in the coming days.

I have the weekly/monthly goal "blank" now .. forgot to mention it .. the primary goal is to place more live trades when I see signals meeting the entry rules. I will have the suggested mini futures on my study/consideration list. Thank you. Still want to stay with the ones I trade/traded before and study other ones during non-trading hours.

FYI: I just closed my IB account (which I used to trade options/stocks) so that I have some emergency funds.

Beth

Good Trading is about Trading Right!
Want What the Market Wants!
Trade With the Trend!
 
  #1475 (permalink)
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@monpere, I agree with your post but one should take note you'll need $25,000+ to do this approach due to "pattern day trader" rules. But I do agree with you and I've said the same thing before, that starting with small shares is likely a better place to find your footing that starting with the full futures contract.

It's funny that our govt and wall street has decided the opposite, that the "pattern day trader" for equities/ETF's is higher risk than trading futures (thus the 25k requirement).

Mike

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  #1476 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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found this pic in my 1000+ collection

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Beth's Journey to Make Her Millions-proflogic-system2.jpg  
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  #1477 (permalink)
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cory View Post
found this pic in my 1000+ collection

Thanks Cory for sharing one of your valuable collection items. Really cool to have the Ergodic divergence/convergence alerts! (Oh, I only spotted a few of them after the fact lol.) May I know where can I find the indicator please? Thank you.

Have a Great week ahead.

Beth

Good Trading is about Trading Right!
Want What the Market Wants!
Trade With the Trend!
 
  #1478 (permalink)
Market Wizard
virginia
 
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look like hand drawn arrows.

 
  #1479 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.ezcolortrading.com 
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cory View Post
look like hand drawn arrows.

Thanks Cory .. you have better eyes .. now I'm a little disappointed .. Well, resume training my eyes again.

Beth

Good Trading is about Trading Right!
Want What the Market Wants!
Trade With the Trend!
 
  #1480 (permalink)
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Happy V-Days!


Both V-Days (incl the Chinese one on Thu) are quite close together this year. Believe you are going to enjoy both!

The following audio greetings may take a few seconds to load:

2011-02-13_1645 - Bethwgreenie's library

Beth and Nelson

Good Trading is about Trading Right!
Want What the Market Wants!
Trade With the Trend!
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