I think someone said it best in a PM to me recently.
If you're a child and you're trying to learn how to ride a bike... and you take a bad fall or two... you may develop some type of fear/psych issue with this.
A lot of you seem to think that the kid should go work on his mind for 6 months and come back fresh to try to get on that bicycle.
No, not me. I'm going to get up, dust myself off, and get right back on. You overcome the issues by dealing with them head on. The act of trading IS WORKING on myself every day. Yes I may continue to fall, but I'm freaking working on it. This is how I see it, and as usual, I appreciate you taking the time to offer insight from your perspective.
I do not regret what I said earlier. It's true. No one here can say anything to me that will just make something "click" for me. Unfortunately, I've been around trading long enough to have heard alllll this before. That is not a know-it-all statement, because I fully admit my shortcomings. This will be something I must do on my own, no one can say anything to just change me. I doubt you would disagree with this, so I really don't know where you were coming from by quoting that earlier, maybe you misunderstood.
The following 2 users say Thank You to indextrader7 for this post:
As complicated as things may seem. My problem is as simple as it has ever been:
During the session, I am not focused on simply executing a plan well. I am focused on outcome; on P/L. "Being right" or "winning" must be about good execution, not about the outcome of P/L.
The fact is, I come to this conclusion over and over again, but I have not put enough mental energy into making absolutely sure that I don't forget this once the bell sounds and things start flying around. This is the key.
I have to find a way to C-O-N-T-I-N-U-E to focus on process rather than outcome during each and every moment.
I rack my brain and search my heart and it always comes back to this, and I know where the truth is; I know what the answer is. The problem is that I quickly forget this in battle.
This is what needs to change.
I am not some compulsive gambler. I do not have deep seated psychological issues. This whole thing is way simpler than any of that. I simply get caught up in focusing on the outcome of a trade to be the most important thing, and do whatever I can do to try and make that outcome a good one, whatever the risks may be. My effort must go towards simply focusing on process and executing well. If I can do that; the issue of large losses goes away, and my edge can present itself fully in the results rather than being covered up by outsized losses.
Last edited by indextrader7; May 2nd, 2013 at 08:53 PM.
The following user says Thank You to indextrader7 for this post:
You're doing exactly the right thing. You have to get up and "get back on that horse" (or bike) that threw you. That's how you will get past whatever the issues are, and that is the most direct way to meet them.
"The only way out is through," as someone has said.
The following user says Thank You to bobwest for this post:
the base jump or die spot - pay attention , anytime you are OVER LEVERAGED ON A POSITION ;you will encounter the jump or die spot , and if you have not figured it out yet , the 15 contract CRUSH BASE IS 3800 dollars -so it will stop you out ,so take 3800 and divide by 15 = 255 per contract ,now 12 lot x 255= what?
so bottom line is @ TST when you pass 255 you better be out of the trade because God will not help you at that point,i will often times have 1 feeler trade on a trend move to see how fast it gets me to 255 plus 50 percent to see if i can add at that level ,
this will be my final read on this thread do to the 3 contract limit you told me being broken mutiple times ,your a hoping gambler not a systematic trader ,hopium and opium will all kill you in the long run ,take care ,and good luck as thats all your system has,
:when you cheat -you only cheat yourself
refer to post # 470 & 527 & 930
option traders refer to post 996 thru 1005
The following 3 users say Thank You to creekboy for this post:
Here's one practical thing I will share as it's not really a big secret yet something that should be in the repertoire of every experienced trader. It helped me in my own battle with the habit of doubling-down on losers i.e. gambling after I ditched the ideas of YTC scalper and honestly I think YTC is filler crap even if Mr. Beggs is a successful trader or not. All that written todo list material in YTC imo was just to make it feel like something legit. (Dr. Barrrry Burrns! of topdogtrading does the same thing with filler todo's in his "courses") Just another variation of the "pump and dump" from vendors. With the CFTC and BBB turning a blind eye to the majority of the wild west of trading educational vendors one gets to know there are so many tricks.
Anyways, at the stop point of a failure of a reversal trade, is often a failed H2 as Al Brooks often points out. A failed H2 or L2 often goes two legs the other way as much of the time everything moves in two. So looking back on your chart, one could have taken a reversal trade at the stop point and plus one contract. So the following move in price has a decent chance of making back the initial loss or most of it. Al Brooks in his live room often states he's ready to "turn on a dime" or following the "rapids of the bouncing raft" whichever way it turns which is kind of annoying in his room as he often says always in long, then changing to always in short yet never marking his trade entries or exits beforehand or afterwards in recap. (although his principles often work with equal or better than Blackjack counting odds >=51%) I'm sure you're smart enough to know where a reverse trade can be taken close to a stopout.
Of course this way of coping with the habit is like a nicoderm patch or electronic cigarette since conditions may not be always ripe for a good stop and reverse. And then in that case a full stop still needs to be acted on. So I have more work to do to minimize the temptation of doubling-down on losers.
Big Mike posted this FT7 intervention in my journal which helped with recognizing my "monkey" of doubling-down on losers too. I repeat listening to it again occasionally especially when I'm not happy with my trading. Actually I wish I had never discovered doubling down on losers. I had not thought of doing that before YTC scalper and then got into the bad habit. Maybe YTC scalper and similar ideas can be used in automated trading. Maybe the HFT folks are already doing it. Humans have physical and psychological pain, machines and software don't and can always stop out.
A couple of days ago you posted
"I immediately closed the trade out, logged out of all platforms, and removed myself from trading the rest of the day. Typically these types of decision snowball and lead to frustration, leading to more bad decisions. Even though it was a breakdown in discipline to add to the position. It was a big discipline win for me to shut her down for the day upon realizing that I had violated rules. "
I agree with you. I wish I had posted my support earlier.
This is your journal and I think you are quite right in asking people to back off a bit with their second-hand quarter-backing. You put a lot of work into the posts in this journal and you are persisting.
Good luck and keep your spirits up!
Good trading to everyone.
Last edited by aquarian1; May 3rd, 2013 at 02:37 AM.
The following user says Thank You to aquarian1 for this post:
You are. I am. We all are until we can break no rules for a month, each month. Especially the risk management.
Oh yes you do. I do. We all do and always will have. Our brains were wired and messed with at many early ages, all we can do now is try to limit the damage that causes and only sticking to ego busting rules can do that.
No it isn't. It is the most soul ripping enterprise ever crafted.
Your journal and recent pain and particularly the last 20 or 30 posts from all contributors in here have been some of the most inspiring material for me. I struggle with all these issues monstrously. Away on vacation last week I returned fresh with a new plan for the month and managed to break it 3 times in the first day - oh deep desperation why are you always present? Simply because this is no ordinary game.
Thank you for your journal - I haven't even found the courage to get that far yet.
The following 4 users say Thank You to ratfink for this post: