Like a turtle to his balcony... - Trading Journals | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Like a turtle to his balcony...
Updated: Views / Replies:96,408 / 1,905
Created: by GaryD Attachments:1,051

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 1,051  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Like a turtle to his balcony...

  #241 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,353 given, 83,234 received

There is no spoon...

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #242 (permalink)
User requested to be banned
Orlando, Florida
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Favorite Futures: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011
Thanks: 2,090 given, 5,026 received


Patrick S View Post
This is an entirely new way of thinking for me. I want to understand it better.

Picking the correct entry is the hard part for me.

As you know I typically wait too long for that confirmation and pay full price which only allows me to scalp for 10.

How do I gain the confidence to see these areas of fair value?

By deciding that is what you are going to do.


It is not going to come quickly, just as if you were 400 pounds and wanted to get down to 175. One day at a time, learn something each day.

Keep in mind, as complex as it can get, there are only two choices; up, or down. All of the things you may study will give some insight as to where and when and how far, but ultimately there is no complete guide book, you have to fill in the blanks for yourself, and that takes dedication and experience.

If you are wanting to get your "degree" in trading, there are many courses you can choose, but you have to get your required hours in, with a good balanced education in several key areas. Some I would recommend;

1) Wave Structure
2) Value Structure
3) Volume
4) Risk vs Reward
5) Probability
6) Psychology


Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to GaryD for this post:
 
  #243 (permalink)
User requested to be banned
Orlando, Florida
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Favorite Futures: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011
Thanks: 2,090 given, 5,026 received


I'm going to give you some very simple examples, feel free to make up your own versions.



Patrick S View Post
Picking the correct entry is the hard part for me.

In simulation, assuming you will trade crude, set an ATM stop to 15 ticks and profit target to 15 ticks. Practice making entries until your percenatge wins rises to at least 65%.



Patrick S View Post
As you know I typically wait too long for that confirmation and pay full price which only allows me to scalp for 10.

In simulation, practice changing your definition of "confirmation". Let the prior day's action determine the direection you are looking to trade in, and then wait for a pullback. Or, find an area where a market has pushed too far and enter on a break in the unexpected direction. Learn from what works for you. Your mind will interpret the "correct" points in a way that may need to be altered.


Patrick S View Post
How do I gain the confidence to see these areas of fair value?

Markets often turn at anticipated areas. Learn to expect support or resistance (Market Profile, Wave Structure, Stop Placement). become very familiar with volume, what it looks like where the turns occur. A volume ladder or a 1m volume chart will work. I also use Time & Sales to gauge the speed of the tape.



Patrick S View Post
This is an entirely new way of thinking for me.

And it will need to be, for some time. Relax, be open to it.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to GaryD for this post:
 
  #244 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Various
Favorite Futures: Various
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,897 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 5,143 given, 11,242 received


Patrick S View Post
How do I gain the confidence to see these areas of fair value?

@Patrick S, here's a chart of Thursday's CL trade. Can you use a drawing tool and highlight what you visually think are the most fair prices ("most fair" meaning, where you think the bulk, however you want to define it, of trading occurred)?

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


Secondly, from your charts I normally see, you are very zoomed in. Try taking a 10 minute chart, use the crude pit session only (get rid of everything but 9am to 2:30pm), and zoom out to where you can see the last 12 trading days, and use an aspect ratio that is not too squashed. Put a vertical line between the sessions so each day is visible. Post that chart if you will.

@GaryD, tell me if you want me to discuss this offline, this is your turf.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
  #245 (permalink)
User requested to be banned
Orlando, Florida
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Favorite Futures: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011
Thanks: 2,090 given, 5,026 received


josh View Post
@Patrick S, here's a chart of Thursday's CL trade. Can you use a drawing tool and highlight what you visually think are the most fair prices ("most fair" meaning, where you think the bulk, however you want to define it, of trading occurred)?

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


Secondly, from your charts I normally see, you are very zoomed in. Try taking a 10 minute chart, use the crude pit session only (get rid of everything but 9am to 2:30pm), and zoom out to where you can see the last 12 trading days, and use an aspect ratio that is not too squashed. Put a vertical line between the sessions so each day is visible. Post that chart if you will.

@GaryD, tell me if you want me to discuss this offline, this is your turf.

@Patrick S, take advantage of this. Succesful traders are not always here for you to ride on. We cannot be, because ego plays a big role in success.

@josh, I had a thread about me, this one is about whatever, but there is reason it is on futures.io (formerly BMT). If this thread could be anything, why not a breeding ground?

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to GaryD for this post:
 
  #246 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Diego, CA, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: CL, ES
 
Tiger45's Avatar
 
Posts: 309 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 203 given, 422 received


Patrick S View Post
This is an entirely new way of thinking for me. I want to understand it better.

Picking the correct entry is the hard part for me.

As you know I typically wait too long for that confirmation and pay full price which only allows me to scalp for 10.

How do I gain the confidence to see these areas of fair value?

I am not a profitable trader, so my comments don't mean very much, but this is what I'm slowly (very, very slowly) coming to realize. There are no magic bar patterns to enter off of, there are only areas to enter with risk management. Better traders can use volume, order flow, the foot print chart, or whatever as a secondary confirmation, but they only do that at an area that they want to put a trade on in.

My background is in the hard sciences and engineering, so I'm a very black and white kind of cat. I love to calculate and quantify. This stuff is the exact opposite. It's very difficult for me, because I, like you, want an entry pattern. A go/no go signal. Something to take the uncertainty away. The frustration level is very high because it all looks so easy in hind sight.

I feel fortunate that these guys (GaryD, Josh, GreenR, Private Banker, and others) post their trades, comment from time to time on the trades I post, and are willing to answer questions.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Tiger45 for this post:
 
  #247 (permalink)
Elite Member
Raleigh NC
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker/Data: Mirus/ZenFire
Favorite Futures: Oil
 
Patrick S's Avatar
 
Posts: 628 since May 2012
Thanks: 394 given, 519 received

appreciation

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

This was still written on my chart from Thursday. I did not add these lines or words b4 I posted this.
Yes @josh the screen shots I show in my journal of the trades I took are scrunched up. However.... I do take a top down approach every morning and draw my lines in on the charts. For instance.
Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

60 min view. Lines are drawn based on high volume s/r.
Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

Another 60m view
Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

5min view
Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

@greenr trade Friday morning. This was I was looking at.
I see your point though.. Yeah I draw in those lines but I think I still lose that perspective when I am only looking at a 3hour stretch.
I need to do a better job of looking at the bigger picture.

If you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten.
Celebrate because you executed your edge. Not because you won.
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Patrick S for this post:
 
  #248 (permalink)
User requested to be banned
Orlando, Florida
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Favorite Futures: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011
Thanks: 2,090 given, 5,026 received


Tiger45 View Post
My background is in the hard sciences and engineering, so I'm a very black and white kind of cat. I love to calculate and quantify.

I was a real estate developer and used spreadsheets for every decision I made. A sample condo deal is attached, just to show what I was used to working with in terms of planning and management.

I cannot tell you how many hours I spent running backtests, exporting to Excel, organizing data... I have literally hundreds of spreadsheets saved in my computer. I grabbed a handful and zip foldered here for fun. And that is about all they were. They did help me as a trader, but only because I did them enough to be over it.

We try to "engineer" a profit. We want a black and white world, something tangible to hang onto. Trading does not offer that, exactly. What it does offer is manageable, to some degree, but not necessarily by spreadsheets of concrete rules.

Getting your mind comfortable with the concept of uncertanity, learning to trust yourself because you have proven to yourself that you should, accepting the fact that you will never know what the outcome will be, not measuring the success in dollars but in how comfortable you feel with it... those are deceptively difficult tasks.

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: zip Spreadsheets.zip (539.5 KB, 17 views)
Register to download File Type: xls 12-17-05 condo conversio.xls (271.0 KB, 16 views)
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to GaryD for this post:
 
  #249 (permalink)
User requested to be banned
Orlando, Florida
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Favorite Futures: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011
Thanks: 2,090 given, 5,026 received


Tiger45 View Post
I am not a profitable trader, so my comments don't mean very much, but this is what I'm slowly (very, very slowly) coming to realize. There are no magic bar patterns to enter off of, there are only areas to enter with risk management. Better traders can use volume, order flow, the foot print chart, or whatever as a secondary confirmation, but they only do that at an area that they want to put a trade on in.

My background is in the hard sciences and engineering, so I'm a very black and white kind of cat. I love to calculate and quantify. This stuff is the exact opposite. It's very difficult for me, because I, like you, want an entry pattern. A go/no go signal. Something to take the uncertainty away. The frustration level is very high because it all looks so easy in hind sight.

I feel fortunate that these guys (GaryD, Josh, GreenR, Private Banker, and others) post their trades, comment from time to time on the trades I post, and are willing to answer questions.


Some wise trader once said to me, "There are no magic bar patterns to enter off of, there are only areas to enter with risk management. Better traders can use volume, order flow, the foot print chart, or whatever as a secondary confirmation, but they only do that at an area that they want to put a trade on in."


Reply With Quote
 
  #250 (permalink)
User requested to be banned
Orlando, Florida
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Favorite Futures: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011
Thanks: 2,090 given, 5,026 received



GaryD View Post
@Patrick S, take advantage of this. Succesful traders are not always here for you to ride on. We cannot be, because ego plays a big role in success.


That sounds worse today than when I wrote it. You'll have to excuse my rough edges. I'd work on them, but with my schedule of work and trading, something has to give.



"... not always here for you to ride on." - Really meaning, here was one that was willing to take the time to look over your trades and charts and give advice. Ride that! See if the advice he gives makes sense to you, emulate his trades in simulation and see if your numbers improve.



"We cannot be, because ego plays a big role in success."
- Or rather, the detachment from ego. It is hard to try to tell someone else what they should and should not do very often, because most of the time we don't know either. But we learn not to be bothered so much by that fact. In fact, I think it is critical that we accept that we know nothing about the future outcome, and act accordingly.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to GaryD for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > Like a turtle to his balcony...

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Turtle Trading System on TOS Fourwedge ThinkOrSwim 8 June 21st, 2014 12:15 AM
Turtle and the Hare kbit Jokes 1 December 12th, 2012 06:22 AM
Turtle TS-code help needed from programmers abcplot EasyLanguage Programming 1 May 11th, 2011 03:29 PM
Turtle Trading System Calculation Help wanted JVentura Platforms and Indicators 2 November 22nd, 2010 09:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:36 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-15 in 0.23 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.234.247.118