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My Journey to Become Profitable Long Term
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My Journey to Become Profitable Long Term

  #11 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Bay Area, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Think or Swim
Favorite Futures: YM, ES, 6E Futures, Weekly Vertical Spreads
 
Allistah's Avatar
 
Posts: 136 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 64 received

Thanks for the suggestions Mike.

I have some questions about what you said. I'm not challenging you, just want to understand the thought process.

You mentioned weekly/daily/4h. The 4h will only have 2 bars a day. Is that too close to a daily? Would a week/day/2h be more appropriate?

..and if I'm using three charts like this I would take entries off the 4h/2h chart and only use the other two to make sure I'm at support/resistance/breakout, etc?

Is it more common for people to use three or two charts from those that are making it work?

-Allistah

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  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Memphis, Tennessee
 
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deltason's Avatar
 
Posts: 133 since Jul 2009
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I commend you on your desire to start a journal, seek collaboration, and ask questions. Please don't perceive my reluctance to directly answer some of your questions as unwillingness to assist. I believe that you will ultimately answer those questions for yourself as you continue to dig.

You asked, "where do I go from here?" Well, I think you're on the right track.

Absorb as much trading information as you can from futures.io (formerly BMT), books, videos, conferences, the web, etc. I don't recommend paying for educational material or tools because so many others have already graciously provided free top notch resources.

Gather as much trading information as you can from screen time and testing your approach(es).

Devote yourself to critically thinking about what you learn from your exposure and experience. Ask fundamental questions about markets, about people, your tools, your method, and yourself.

Try to answer those questions and see if you can successfully incorporate your conclusions into your work.

Don't force it. Go with the flow.

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  #13 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Bay Area, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Think or Swim
Favorite Futures: YM, ES, 6E Futures, Weekly Vertical Spreads
 
Allistah's Avatar
 
Posts: 136 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 64 received



deltason View Post
I commend you on your desire to start a journal, seek collaboration, and ask questions. Please don't perceive my reluctance to directly answer some of your questions as unwillingness to assist. I believe that you will ultimately answer those questions for yourself as you continue to dig.

You asked, "where do I go from here?" Well, I think you're on the right track.

Absorb as much trading information as you can from futures.io (formerly BMT), books, videos, conferences, the web, etc. I don't recommend paying for educational material or tools because so many others have already graciously provided free top notch resources.

Gather as much trading information as you can from screen time and testing your approach(es).

Devote yourself to critically thinking about what you learn from your exposure and experience. Ask fundamental questions about markets, about people, your tools, your method, and yourself.

Try to answer those questions and see if you can successfully incorporate your conclusions into your work.

Don't force it. Go with the flow.

Thanks for the feedback. I think tonight I'm going to get my set of charts together without any indicators and start from there. I'm going to try and apply what I know and look for some possible entries. I'm not going to trade them, just going to try and find them and post them for review to make sure I am on the right track. Going to try and trade my charts naked for the first time ever. Should be interesting..

-Allistah

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  #14 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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Allistah View Post
Thanks for the suggestions Mike.

I have some questions about what you said. I'm not challenging you, just want to understand the thought process.

You mentioned weekly/daily/4h. The 4h will only have 2 bars a day. Is that too close to a daily? Would a week/day/2h be more appropriate?

..and if I'm using three charts like this I would take entries off the 4h/2h chart and only use the other two to make sure I'm at support/resistance/breakout, etc?

Is it more common for people to use three or two charts from those that are making it work?

-Allistah

You need to find something that works for you, your style, your personality, your risk aversion, etc. You need to develop your own system. Front to back. Own it. Understand it. It is yours.

Using a 2h vs 4h is fine, but I wouldn't look any smaller (personally) for a swing trade that will be on for several days or so. You want to exercise timing here so that you are doing business in a key area where price should move quickly in your favor.

I place a lot of swing trades based on nothing more than a single daily chart with no indicators, just trend lines. I don't even chart them in my platform many times, I just use finviz.com. In other words, just keep it simple.

Mike

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  #15 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Allistah's Avatar
 
Posts: 136 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 64 received

Tell me about taking profits. Some people say to not set targets and just move your stop up until you get stopped out. Some people say you should set targets.

I would think that if I was doing a swing trade and I had 3 pretty good up days I wouldn't ask any questions, I would just get out. But then it's possible to you're cutting yourself short.

Any advice in this area for me?

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  #16 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Allistah's Avatar
 
Posts: 136 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 64 received

So I'm looking for some potential entries and I found this one and wanted to get some feedback on it. Looks like a long entry to me. At support on both the weekly and the daily.

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  #17 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Posts: 136 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 64 received

Taking Profits

On the way home tonight, I was thinking about why I struggle with my trading..

I spend time looking for trades and I would get into trades which at some point almost always make money. But they turn around and I take a loss. I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me. Then I remembered in Elder's book that he said people spend all this time on entering the trade and entering trades doesn't make you any money. Exiting the trades is what makes the money and so many people don't spend much time thinking about exits.

I would set targets, but I think that they weren't realistic for swing trading. I wasn't really looking at indicators once in trades.

So what am I getting at here? I need to spend WAY more time looking at the trades I am currently in and protect those profits and get out before things turn into a loss.

-Allistah

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  #18 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Bay Area, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Think or Swim
Favorite Futures: YM, ES, 6E Futures, Weekly Vertical Spreads
 
Allistah's Avatar
 
Posts: 136 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 64 received

I have my rules set up, I'm following them to get into trades, taking very small trades, and logging every trade entry and exit.

It has been difficult because the markets have been moving down and all of my entries are long. Some trades are working out but I am down overall at this point.

I don't want to change my rules at this point since the conditions aren't optimal. So I will continue to trade these micro positions and track my progress as the markets change direction. As the markets transition to up trending, I will be watching my progress closely.

My rules wouldn't be any different for downtrending stocks, only problem is that I can't short stock in this account but I can buy puts so I had considered doing that in times like this.

Is there anyone that trades opposite of the market or am I just completely asking for trouble? :-)

Any tips or comments are always welcome...

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  #19 (permalink)
Knowledge Seeker
Dubai, UAE
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, TradeStation
Broker/Data: OX, TradeStation
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Posts: 171 since May 2012
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sharing some learnings....

sharing from my learning with you, some stuff i read, some stuff i learned the hard way .. and yes, sometimes i find myself "insisting" on trading against the market.. and i guess that has to do with a "judgement call" that my system (my brain) does when i see the chart and the indicators.. my brain insists on that judgement (for example, i should go long) and the market doesn't care, and it can be going on the other direction .. you need to refresh and re-validate that judgement consistently .. so here goes

- look at the same stock on another charting tool or platform.. StockCharts.com or FinViz .. it will help give you a fresh perspective sometime and help you challenge your current judgement with a fresh look
- take the time to study the difference between a retracement and a reversal .. and the signs of each.. makes such a big difference (the chart above for me is a reversal - not retracement, so my judgement would be that the stock won't bounce off the trend line.. i may be wrong)
- this one i read somewhere .. and i go by it .. chose a stock that's "well-behaved" .. moves in a consistent manner .. i'd avoid any stock that doesn't fulfill that criteria .. if it makes a 5% down move then a 3% up-move next day, and so on .. i can get smashed if i want to ride a trend there, except in rare conditions .. i would seek more consistent movers .. many out there...
- decide on your "best price range" for the stocks to trade (especially important if you'll trade its options).. makes such a big difference .. can take few trades not within that range, but you know it's not your area, and they're like one-offs ... helps better manage your PnL and keep it within limits
- decide on a "simple" setup that you get very comfortable with .. trade it in SIM until you're confident (still real world is different, but that helps getting used to "read" the setup) ..after many months of working with many and all indicators possible, i'm happy now using MA's and price levels & S/R .. simplicity is king .. would still look at few indicators, but now i see them only as "indicators" that confirm my decision or help me pick better informed entries/exits .. they don't make the decision for me..

i'm a beginner (will continue to be for many years to come).. but hope the above will help you move to the next step..

cheers,
RedK

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