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Short term TF trading


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Short term TF trading

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  #1 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Hello everyone at futures.io (formerly BMT). What a nice environment this seems to be!

A bit about me. I've been trading for 8 years now. I've gone from stocks, to forex, to currency futures, to index futures and I feel at home with them! I like the rhythym.

I trade on price action (support/resistance and trendlines) and use multiple timeframes to get a good 3D view on the market.

I watch a 50 tick, 250 tick, and 5 min chart as my main short, mid, and long term charts.

I'll post daily recap videos here, and other things I feel like sharing.

I live in AL, and I literally don't know another trader. This forum will be great for me to meet you guys, and open up some communication.

I am a consistently successful trader, but I still make mistakes all the time. I let my losers get too big because my pride or "need to be right" gets in the way, I don't let winners run because I'm afraid of not keeping the small profits I currently have, etc, etc. I do some good things though, and typically have a good "feel" for the flow.

I hope having this journal will help me continue to grow and keep improving. I look forward to sharing what I know, helping, and learning from you.

Here is the last trade recap I did (Thursday of last week):



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  #3 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


Done trading for the day. Really focused on trading short term swings on my lowest timeframe today (50 tick). Took 18 trades in an hour, which is very busy for me. I'm kind of at that point in trading where I have a couple different ways I can trade profitably, and I'm trying to figure out what I enjoy the most, what works best, and what is applicable to different market environments.

Uploading my video recap of all the trades now. Video post to follow.

Hope you guys are doing well today.

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  #4 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Win % = 10/18 = 56%

Avg win = 7 ticks. Avg loss= 4.75 ticks.

Win:loss = 1.5


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  #5 (permalink)
 trendisyourfriend 
Legendary Market Wizard
Quebec
 
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I like your simple approach, very straightforward. I follow a similar approach on the Nasdaq, the trick is to accept you'll lose many times but there is always almost a moment when the direction is holding a longer period of time and that's where you make money. How do you manage your trailing stop? Manual or auto ? Thanks for sharing, nice start.

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  #6 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


trendisyourfriend View Post
I like your simple approach, very straightforward. I follow a similar approach on the Nasdaq, the trick is to accept you'll lose many times but there is always almost a moment when the direction is holding a longer period of time and that's where you make money. How do you manage your trailing stop? Manual or auto ? Thanks for sharing, nice start.

Thanks trendisyourfriend,

I manage all entries and stops manually. Usually take partial profits at a previous swing level (if it gets there), and trail the rest until I don't want to be in the trade anymore (price is showing weakness in some way).

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  #7 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

I'm very analytical, and will continually share stats. I'll probably do a video soon and go over my trading stats sheet. To me, keeping very detailed trade stats is just as important as finding an entry point on the charts. My own brain will lie to me and tell me I'm doing a better job than I am if I don't keep detailed logs and monitor my performance, risk, and susceptibility for making trading errors.

Here's a look at my daily p/l in ticks since I began trading full time in Feb.

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  #8 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Here's a look at my drawdown chart. The larger my drawdowns, you can be certain, the larger position sizes I'm trading. It's something I'm working on.... that is.... not loading up with too large a position. It's not worth the risk.

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  #9 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

win %

Each point plotted is the average of the last 20 trades taken. It's a rolling 20 trade average, so each trade adds a new plot with the 21st trade dropping out. You guys probably already knew what that was, but I wanted to be clear.

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  #10 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


win:loss ratio

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  #11 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

I would love to hear how ya'll stats compare to this. Certainly not to say someone is better than the other, but I just really don't know if my results are mediocre at best, fair, great, or what! I don't know any other traders, so I'm really in the dark, and that's a huge reason I've started this journal.

Any feedback is appreciated. I don't care if you run my through the mud or whatever you think I need to hear! I seek truth above all else.

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  #12 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Here's some stats I keep up with to measure efficiency of my trading. It's a slightly different take on the old MAE/MFE concept combined with the trade efficiency concept. I've never seen them charted like this elsewhere.

TOP LEFT CHART - TOTAL EFFICIENCY
Tells me, from the time I entered the trade until the time I exited the trade, how many ticks I took from the market vs how many total ticks were available. Total available ticks would include ticks against my position, as well as ticks the market went in my favor beyond where I took profits.

TOP RIGHT CHART - ENTRY & EXIT EFFICIENCY
This breaks down the top left chart from total efficiency into it's component parts:
1) Entry efficiency = The difference in (entry price) and (max adverse excursion price). So it gives a representation (in ticks) how efficient my entry was. How much better could it have been?
2) Exit efficiency = The difference in (exit price) and (max favorable excursion price). So this tells me, ok you exited here, but how much better could your exit have been?

BOTTOM LEFT CHART - MAE, MFE, & AVG P/L OVER TIME
Each point plotted shows - ok for the last 10 trades you took, what was the farthest the market went in your favor (in ticks), what was the farthest it went against you (in ticks), and how many ticks did you average P/L for those 10 trades.

BOTTOM RIGHT CHART - MAE, MFE, P/L FOR LAST 10 TRADES
Each line represents a single trade. At the far left it shows how far that trade went against me (MAE), follow that line up to see how far it went in my favor (MFE), and then follow that same line to see where I closed out that trade within that range of MAE, AND MFE.

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  #13 (permalink)
 traderwerks   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 693 since Jun 2009
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I look at Win/Loss ration, %wins and MAE.

I want to know how musk risk I am putting on so the MAE helps me a lot. A rolling W/L ration and %win gives me a good idea of where my trading is currently. ( The other stats are useful as well )

Math. A gateway drug to reality.
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  #14 (permalink)
 Nicolas11 
near Paris, France
 
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Hi,

Thanks for having opened a journal!
Your methods resonate with mine (still SIM) and I am looking forward to reading you again.
And, if you look for a positive environment, futures.io (formerly BMT) is the "place to be".

Nicolas

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  #15 (permalink)
 Athan 
Athens - Greece
 
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Thanks for your journal.

It would be nice if you could continue the youtube videos and even better if you could record on video trades taking live either winning or loosing. Both would be nice.

It would help understand your way of trading much better.

Thanks

Athan

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  #16 (permalink)
 ThatManFromTexas 
Houston,Tx
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
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indextrader7 View Post
Took 18 trades in an hour, which is very busy for me.

That's ok... your broker will love you....

Great Journal. Thanks for posting....

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #17 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Good morning all. I think I'll try and record some trades live today. I only have a 5 min window to do so with the record software I use, and I'm not wanting to create a distraction. We'll see how it goes.

Happy hunting.

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  #18 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Got caught in a early trendline break, and added to the position at the 250 tick support level. Managed the first position to +1, and the 2nd to +15 ticks.

https://www.screenr.com:443/tzM8

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  #19 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

short a trendline break at the top of the range

didn't work out immediately (result -5 ticks), so waited a bit.

Re-entered short on signs of downside movement again, and it didn't work out either. (-6 ticks)

Screenr - indextrader7: trades

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  #20 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Finally a nice winner. A gift of a trade.

I was long 4 contracts when I started the video (from the most recent blue dot).

Tightened stop, then took 1/2 off at previous resistance, then it just kept running and running and I manually moved my stop up with price action until stopped.

1st half off at +17 ticks
2nd half off at +39 ticks

Screenr - indextrader7: finally a nice win

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  #21 (permalink)
 ThatManFromTexas 
Houston,Tx
 
Experience: Advanced
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indextrader7 View Post
Finally a nice winner. A gift of a trade.

I was long 4 contracts when I started the video (from the most recent blue dot).

Tightened stop, then took 1/2 off at previous resistance, then it just kept running and running and I manually moved my stop up with price action until stopped.

1st half off at +17 ticks
2nd half off at +39 ticks

Screenr - indextrader7: finally a nice win

@indextrader7

What time zone are you in?

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #22 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


ThatManFromTexas View Post
@indextrader7

What time zone are you in?

CST

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  #23 (permalink)
 ThatManFromTexas 
Houston,Tx
 
Experience: Advanced
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indextrader7 View Post
CST



@indextrader7

Were you trading through the News Announcements ?




I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #24 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


ThatManFromTexas View Post
@indextrader7

Were you trading through the News Announcements ?

Yes, I was. I honestly didn't even check the calendar today... and that's not something I want to get into the habit of.https://futures.io/images/smilies/animated/faint.gif

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 ThatManFromTexas 
Houston,Tx
 
Experience: Advanced
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indextrader7 View Post
Yes, I was. I honestly didn't even check the calendar today... and that's not something I want to get into the habit of.https://futures.io/images/smilies/animated/faint.gif

@indextrader7

Don't feel bad ... I once shorted Walmart on the day Kmart filed bankruptcy... that was painful...

You can put "Smilies" in your posts by clicking on the "More Smilies: View all 385 smilies" link at the bottom of the reply page. Click on the one you want and it will be embedded and visible in the post.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #26 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

+26 ticks today.

Here's the recap


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  #27 (permalink)
 ThatManFromTexas 
Houston,Tx
 
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indextrader7 View Post
Yes, I was. I honestly didn't even check the calendar today... and that's not something I want to get into the habit of.https://futures.io/images/smilies/animated/faint.gif

@indextrader7

Don't forget to check the news today .....


I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #28 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012



current position

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  #29 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Looking for the larger 5min swing to happen.


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  #30 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


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  #31 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Out the rest at 809.2

That'll be it for me today.

I'm going to lunch.

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  #32 (permalink)
 ThatManFromTexas 
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indextrader7 View Post
Out the rest at 809.2

That'll be it for me today.

I'm going to lunch.

The way you present your trades gives a clear and concise view of your methodology. Keep up the good work.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #33 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Rough day for me today. Can't seem to get in the right rhythm with the market. -37 ticks so far today.

I'll keep executing my edge! No fear here.

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  #34 (permalink)
 ThatManFromTexas 
Houston,Tx
 
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indextrader7 View Post
Rough day for me today. Can't seem to get in the right rhythm with the market. -37 ticks so far today.

I'll keep executing my edge! No fear here.

Some day's chickens... some day's feathers...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #35 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

I had some serious overtrading today.



Ended up loading up on a big trade and getting back to breakeven ($) for the day. Still negative ticks though.


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  #36 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

The big trade that got me back to breakeven. Not something I ever enjoy, but seem to do pretty often.


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  #37 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

...and my trades from yesterday 4-25-12. Very good day yesterday +18.5 ticks and a big $ win day.





Here is my p/l for the week so far.


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 tihfa 
detroit, mi
 
Experience: Beginner
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it7,

thanks very much. this is very inspirational. i have been afraid to pull trigger and am in state of analysis paralysis. threads like yours are helping me summon the courage. hopefully soon will have a thread of own

regards,
tihfa

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


tihfa View Post
it7,

thanks very much. this is very inspirational. i have been afraid to pull trigger and am in state of analysis paralysis. threads like yours are helping me summon the courage. hopefully soon will have a thread of own

regards,
tihfa

I enjoy sharing. Note: Please don't trade like I did today. Overtrading is a terrible thing to do. Sometimes the most valuable thing you can take from watching my stuff is what NOT to do.

Happy hunting.

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  #40 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

-28 ticks on the day today.

Process goal for tomorrow: Be more selective. Keep the overall market bias in mind.

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  #41 (permalink)
 kbit 
Aurora, Il USA
 
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Indextrader, have you considered going to a higher time frame tick chart like 1597 (pretty good one for me) and taking less trades but pay more than the smaller frame stuff.

In addition to that, the higher frames weed out a lot of the noise/garbage. You would have less trades which reduces stress and so forth as well as paying you enough just off 1 or 2 trades...not to mention not having all those fees and comissions to pay......

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  #42 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


kbit View Post
Indextrader, have you considered going to a higher time frame tick chart like 1597 (pretty good one for me) and taking less trades but pay more than the smaller frame stuff.

In addition to that, the higher frames weed out a lot of the noise/garbage. You would have less trades which reduces stress and so forth as well as paying you enough just off 1 or 2 trades...not to mention not having all those fees and comissions to pay......

You're spot on. If I can't control the over-trading, that's exactly what I'll do... go to a higher timeframe. I've also looked a little bit into the renko charts. They filter out a great deal of noise.

Day's like today happen though as a descretionary trader. I don't lose my confidence. I'll only drastically change things if my results get out of ordinary... drawdowns unlike normal, etc.

As for now my track record for the year is something to be proud of... both P/L and drawdowns.

Have you ever looked at the renko charts?

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  #43 (permalink)
 kbit 
Aurora, Il USA
 
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indextrader7 View Post
You're spot on. If I can't control the over-trading, that's exactly what I'll do... go to a higher timeframe. I've also looked a little bit into the renko charts. They filter out a great deal of noise.

Day's like today happen though as a descretionary trader. I don't lose my confidence. I'll only drastically change things if my results get out of ordinary... drawdowns unlike normal, etc.

As for now my track record for the year is something to be proud of... both P/L and drawdowns.

Have you ever looked at the renko charts?

Yeah, I've looked at renko and they just don't do anything for me but then I only can use conventional ones with Tradestation. Rjays hybrids look pretty good, if I used Ninja I would definitely try those out.

I use ticks and Kase bars which are great ....The ticks are a 2000 and a 1597, I don't use anything smaller than that for TF

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  #44 (permalink)
 ThatManFromTexas 
Houston,Tx
 
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indextrader7 View Post
I had some serious overtrading today.



Ended up loading up on a big trade and getting back to breakeven ($) for the day. Still negative ticks though.

@indextrader7

If this is the worst thing that ever happens to you ... you'll live to be 100 ...

Sometimes a different perspective helps....




I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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heiermonster
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I'm new around here so please forgive my ignorance but I was wondering, how are you computing the ticks you report?

I don't understand how you can have negative ticks and positive P/L. Are you only counting ticks gained / lost per trade, not per contract?

Why do you choose to report your stats this way?

Also, what other statistics do you keep for your performance and why do you find these valuable?

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


heiermonster View Post
I'm new around here so please forgive my ignorance but I was wondering, how are you computing the ticks you report?

I don't understand how you can have negative ticks and positive P/L. Are you only counting ticks gained / lost per trade, not per contract?

Why do you choose to report your stats this way?

Also, what other statistics do you keep for your performance and why do you find these valuable?

Ticks computation:

If I buy 2 contracts at 100.00, sell 1 at 100.10 and the other at 100.00. That is +5 ticks for my calculations. Half the trade made 10 ticks and half the trade made zero ticks. That is 5 ticks on the trade.

For me, it's the most true way to calculate my performance. If, such as in the above example, I could have earned 10 ticks on the trade, but I only earned 10 ticks on HALF my position. That's not earning 10 ticks for THE WHOLE TRADE.

How could I have negative ticks and positive P/L?
Long 1 contract on a trade and I lose -10 ticks and $-100.
Next trade, long 25 contracts and earn +5 ticks and +$125.
Net for the day:
-5 ticks, +$25.

Other stats I keep... please watch my video where I walk through my entire stats sheet. It's on my indextrader7 youtube channel. If you have any questions as to what I cover there, or why I have something, please don't hesitate to ask.

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 ThatManFromTexas 
Houston,Tx
 
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indextrader7 View Post
Ticks computation:

If I buy 2 contracts at 100.00, sell 1 at 100.10 and the other at 100.00. That is +5 ticks for my calculations. Half the trade made 10 ticks and half the trade made zero ticks. That is 5 ticks on the trade.

For me, it's the most true way to calculate my performance. If, such as in the above example, I could have earned 10 ticks on the trade, but I only earned 10 ticks on HALF my position. That's not earning 10 ticks for THE WHOLE TRADE.

How could I have negative ticks and positive P/L?
Long 1 contract on a trade and I lose -10 ticks and $-100.
Next trade, long 25 contracts and earn +5 ticks and +$125.
Net for the day:
-5 ticks, +$25.

Other stats I keep... please watch my video where I walk through my entire stats sheet. It's on my indextrader7 youtube channel. If you have any questions as to what I cover there, or why I have something, please don't hesitate to ask.


Glad to see someone else who keeps their own stats. I still do them on spreadsheets which is a step up... I used to do everything with a pencil and paper ... ok, I'm old and decrepit... so sue me


I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Internet is down at the moment. Rgghhh.

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 ThatManFromTexas 
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indextrader7 View Post
Internet is down at the moment. Rgghhh.

@indextrader7

It could be worse...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
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We're back online baby. Kick the tires and light the fires.

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

250 tick failed to make lower low at longer term support @ 810. Bullish for the moment.


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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

resistance now


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  #53 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


Here's what I've done so far today, up $1k. Headed to lunch.


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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

+25.5 ticks today.

Overall pretty happy with my performance, but it could have been much better. I spent nearly all afternoon swearing "this is the top", ok now, "this is the top" as you will see in the video recap.

At least I really managed risk well, so it didn't end up hurting me to try.


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 trendisyourfriend 
Legendary Market Wizard
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indextrader7;215995[COLOR=gray
]+25.5 ticks today. [/COLOR]

Overall pretty happy with my performance, but it could have been much better. I spent nearly all afternoon swearing "this is the top", ok now, "this is the top" as you will see in the video recap.

At least I really managed risk well, so it didn't end up hurting me to try.

You may find it interesting to employ a technique i like to use when i have no idea where the next reversal may occur. I use the regression channel and the Pitchfork or the Ray tool in order to find potential reversal points or extremes. I do not trade the TF presently but was curious to see what this technique would have produced. See by yourself:

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 kbit 
Aurora, Il USA
 
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indextrader7 View Post
+25.5 ticks today.

Overall pretty happy with my performance, but it could have been much better. I spent nearly all afternoon swearing "this is the top", ok now, "this is the top" as you will see in the video recap.

At least I really managed risk well, so it didn't end up hurting me to try.

You could do as TIYF suggests with pitchforks (I thought only farmers used pitchforks) or you can go to larger time frame charts which is what I do before the day begins and identify the significant areas and ones that are likley to be the top or bottom for the day.

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
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Thanks kbit and trendisyourfriend,

Both are great suggestions. Whatever method used... if the chart is going from the bottom left to the upper right... we're in an uptrend. That's not the hard part.

My problem is that I was trying to force my view on the market, instead of letting it tell me where it's going.

There are many pro's and cons to being a discretionary trader. More pro's in my opinion though!

It's amazing what our subconscious can do if we allow it. I make the mistake of overlaying too many objective rules. This creates conflict. Conflict creates poor trade execution and management. The answer, for me, is getting more comfortable with subjectivity. Trust intuition. Learn to operate within the uncertainty that is the market.

Embrace subjectivity and feel the market. It tells you where it's going, it's not for me to tell where to go.

Wish I would have been in that mindset earlier today!

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 ThatManFromTexas 
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indextrader7 View Post
+25.5 ticks today.


@indextrader7

Everything else was superfluous ...


indextrader7 View Post

Embrace subjectivity and feel the market. It tells you where it's going, it's not for me to tell where to go.


hmmmm ... people tell me where to go all the time...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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SteveH
Orlando, Florida, USA
 
 
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Do your reported tick totals exclude the broker's cumulative ticks made from your trading? If they don't then that number doesn't denote how YOU performed, independent of the number of trades you took.

For example, in cumulative tick terms, if it cost me 1/2 tick roundtrip per contract in brokerage fees, if I made +5 ticks on 5 contracts, I would record that as a +23.5 tick gain. If I lost the same, then I would record a -27.5 tick loss. If I made +100 ticks, 5 days in a row, then anyone can tell that I actually made $1000 each day, regardless of the number of trades it took me to achieve that total.

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
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SteveH View Post
Do your reported tick totals exclude the broker's cumulative ticks made from your trading? If they don't then that number doesn't denote how YOU performed, independent of the number of trades you took.

For example, in cumulative tick terms, if it cost me 1/2 tick roundtrip per contract in brokerage fees, if I made +5 ticks on 5 contracts, I would record that as a +23.5 tick gain. If I lost the same, then I would record a -27.5 tick loss. If I made +100 ticks, 5 days in a row, then anyone can tell that I actually made $1000 each day, regardless of the number of trades it took me to achieve that total.

Every single reason I use the method I use is to measure my trading performance DECISIONS... my process... against ACTUAL moves of the market.

The broker's fees are negligible, and they are a constant, and they are not a measurement of my decisions relative to actual moves of the market. They aren't in tick p/l values, but they clearly show up in my $ p/l and thus are very much accounted for there.

You're making your tick values to where the translate exactly in dollars. As you said..."anyone could tell you made x, dollars by looking at how many ticks you made"... why even go through the process to calculate ticks? Pointless. Just use $ p/l and that's all you need, because that's all your calculation is giving you... in terms of INFORMATION. Anyone can tell how many dollars I make if I post how many dollars I make. They gain more insight into my trading process if they see how much I can take out of a market on any given day, in terms of ticks the market moves. Think about it, if everyone used my method, we could share ticks p/l and immediately know INFORMATION about their trading performance. If everyone used your method, then we know how much money we made, but we don't know how well the TRADING PROCESS was. (You can't tell if you made 100 ticks on 1 contract, or 1 tick on 100 contracts). Ticks are shared and viewed as a p/l metric, so they are in essence a language. A language should be something that, when said, bring information that is translatable.

I use average ticks earned/lost per contract. No matter what size I trade, I can look over my performance historically and it tells me the same INFORMATION. It tells me how my decisions stacked up against actual moves of the market. If my ticks p/l varied with position size, as they have as my account as grown, it would make me look like a better and better trader just because I was trading more size. Not a good thing, not a true measure.

Ticks are a metric to be measured on their own, they're a different animal than other forms of P/L.

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toucan94506
danville ca usa
 
 
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SteveH View Post
Do your reported tick totals exclude the broker's cumulative ticks made from your trading? If they don't then that number doesn't denote how YOU performed, independent of the number of trades you took.

For example, in cumulative tick terms, if it cost me 1/2 tick roundtrip per contract in brokerage fees, if I made +5 ticks on 5 contracts, I would record that as a +23.5 tick gain. If I lost the same, then I would record a -27.5 tick loss. If I made +100 ticks, 5 days in a row, then anyone can tell that I actually made $1000 each day, regardless of the number of trades it took me to achieve that total.


SteveH....

The key for me is similar to Indextrader7's approach. After the market closes each day, I look at all the symbols that I trade on a daily basis to determine 2 things. How many trades "could" I have taken and what was the total ticks "possible" for those trades. Then I compare number of trades that I took in realtime to the number of possible trades across all my setups. I also compare the number of ticks that I gained/lost in realtime to the number of possible ticks I could have gained with perfect hindsight. That measures how I do each day against what the market offers and as we all know, that changes daily. The markets change over time and these 2 measurements give me the best information about my trading process and how to adjust to changes.

Cheers

toucan

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  #62 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Just went long, much longer term play for me than normal.


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  #63 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Slightly above breakeven today, stayed focused and recovered after a drawdown.


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  #64 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

+40 ticks for an hour's work. I think I'm off to shoot pistols for the day.


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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

P/L for the day.

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 WarEagle 
Birmingham, AL
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Hi Indextrader7,

I can't believe it...another trader in Birmingham! I thought for sure I was the only one (well actually there is one other that is a good friend of mine, but we are definitely a rare breed). I live down in Alabaster. I've never posted here but I had to say hi.

It looks like you are doing great. I like your approach to stats. Every successful trader I know keeps detailed records (a weakness of mine actually).

Looking forward to interacting with you more.

Take care,
WarEagle (yep, Auburn grad :-) )
aka Kirk

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


WarEagle View Post
Hi Indextrader7,

I can't believe it...another trader in Birmingham! I thought for sure I was the only one (well actually there is one other that is a good friend of mine, but we are definitely a rare breed). I live down in Alabaster. I've never posted here but I had to say hi.

It looks like you are doing great. I like your approach to stats. Every successful trader I know keeps detailed records (a weakness of mine actually).

Looking forward to interacting with you more.

Take care,
WarEagle (yep, Auburn grad :-) )
aka Kirk

Hey, thanks for posting. Nice to know there are other traders in the area!

As far as stats go, I'd start with something simple to get your feet wet, and start building a good habit. You don't have to make your stats complicated, just keep up with avg win/avg loss, % win, and an equity curve. At least this will make you painfully aware of how you're performing. Make that post-session review as much a part of your process as the trading itself is.

Roll Tide my man,

-IT7

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 WarEagle 
Birmingham, AL
 
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indextrader7 View Post
Roll Tide my man

Figures...well, nobody's perfect.... ;-) j/k

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

It's interesting to see what happens to my trading stats whenever I transition over to scalping.


Very active trade management leads me to a lot more winners, but some of them for 1 or 2 ticks so it hurts my avg win size.

Psychologically, I turn my focus to win % when I am in scalping mode. If I focused on avg win to avg loss, it can actually harm my trading performance.

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

I love this graph. It plots both my win% and my avgwin:avgloss on the same graph, so you can see how they interact at the same time, it also shows how my "style" drifts, and what I might need to focus my attention on improving. Trust me, it's always something.

Over the last 20 trades, we can see how my avg win:loss ratio has steadily declined, while my win% has gotten steadily better. Definitely due to me changing trading styles to more scalping.


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 trendisyourfriend 
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indextrader7 View Post
I love this graph. It plots both my win% and my avgwin:avgloss on the same graph, so you can see how they interact at the same time, it also shows how my "style" drifts, and what I might need to focus my attention on improving. Trust me, it's always something.

Over the last 20 trades, we can see how my avg win:loss ratio has steadily declined, while my win% has gotten steadily better. Definitely due to me changing trading styles to more scalping.


I can recognize some application of Lance Beggs's ideas in your journal. Did you study his material? If yes, how did you like?

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Return stats through today.

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
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trendisyourfriend View Post
I can recognize some application of Lance Beggs's ideas in your journal. Did you study his material? If yes, how did you like?

Lance is THE MAN. I love his stuff.

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Drawdown chart for the year.

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 Wojo 
Chappaqua, NY
 
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Indextrader7,

A daily video racap of your trades is great! Do you review your videos after you make them a few days later? Also I dig your detailed statistics, definitely one of the more transparent traders Ive ever seen, keep up the good work!

Matt

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 WarEagle 
Birmingham, AL
 
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Wojo View Post
I dig your detailed statistics, definitely one of the more transparent traders Ive ever seen, keep up the good work!

Matt

Agreed. Good stuff, dude.

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
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Wojo View Post
Indextrader7,

A daily video racap of your trades is great! Do you review your videos after you make them a few days later? Also I dig your detailed statistics, definitely one of the more transparent traders Ive ever seen, keep up the good work!

Matt

Wojo,

I'm glad you enjoy the trade recaps.

Yes, sometimes I go back and watch the recaps. I walk though a combination of:
A) My written trade journal thoughts/feelings/expectations/things noticed about how the market moves/etc for all my trades

B) Go through one of my video recaps (or what I used to do was simply take a screenshot of all my trades on the charts) and visually see what I did in the context of market movement(I'm a visual price action trader of course), so going through this teaches me things I did well and possibly am not doing now. I spot things that subconsciously I have learned a lesson on (but not consciously), that I didn't know then, and it kind of "clicks" and creates a nice learning moment.

To me, stats are a part of the trading process just as trading itself is.

Transparency is my gift to new traders. Through my trading journey, I've been alone and not known much other than what Alexander Elder or Mark Douglas told me about trading. For me to be able to SHOW what it looks like, is very gratifying from a teaching/sharing perspective. Actually, even to this day, I honestly don't know how "good" of a trader I am (among "good" traders). I know I'm consistently profitable, but I don't know if I'm an excellent trader, or just barely consistently profitable. Would love for someone to share here, or PM me if they want to be private about it.

Transparency is also accountability for me. I don't want to have to report to you guys that I did some terrible trading!

Happy hunting

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  #79 (permalink)
 WarEagle 
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Are all of your stat charts done in TradeStation? I haven't used TS in years and I recognize the equity curve chart but not the others. I like the presentation of them so I was just curious what you are using.

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
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WarEagle View Post
Are all of your stat charts done in TradeStation? I haven't used TS in years and I recognize the equity curve chart but not the others. I like the presentation of them so I was just curious what you are using.

I only post the equity chart on the TS platform to provide some legitimacy to my performance on the forum here; I don't use it at all for my own stats. I wish I could, as it would save me some data entry time, but there's no way for it to realize when I scale in/out of a trade that it's still the SAME trade. Someone let me know if they know of a way!

All my stats are done on a good ole fashioned excel spreadsheet I made.

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 ThatManFromTexas 
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indextrader7 View Post

@indextrader7

All my stats are done on a good ole fashioned excel spreadsheet I made.

Thank Gawd ... I thought I was the last dinosaur ...

How do you feel about the scalping style of trading?

I tried it and didn't like taking soooo many trades. It bothers me if the broker is making as much in commissions as I'm making trading after paying the commissions. But that's just me.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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heiermonster
Buffalo, NY
 
 
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How do you gauge position sizing?

I know a few times in this journal you've had so-so days and then loaded up on contracts, caught a winner and turned a scratch or loss day into a winner (like this Monday).

I'm a novice trader so I am not questioning your logic in doing so, only asking what is different, what do you see that gives you the confidence to go "all-in"? What clues are you looking for in the price action that causes you to double down or scale-in vs take the loss?

Any advice on stop placement? What do you do regarding stops? I know you state which trades you get stopped out of, but not much about why that particular price or what you saw that caused you to bail at that point. Do you use hard-stops or just monitor the price action and make decisions?

I know I fear that one of these days you're going to report to that one of those 34 contract trades went against you.

Thank you for this wonderful journal, I learn something every time I read it.

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


ThatManFromTexas View Post
Thank Gawd ... I thought I was the last dinosaur ...

How do you feel about the scalping style of trading?

I tried it and didn't like taking soooo many trades. It bothers me if the broker is making as much in commissions as I'm making trading after paying the commissions. But that's just me.

Scalping suits my trading psychology/personality pretty well, as long as I don't "marry" any positions. I have at least 3 different styles of trading that I'm profitable at, one of which is this scalping style, so I'm working on finding how to quickly identify the market mood/behavior and know which trading style to use for the day.

Round-trip commissions cost less than a single tick of profit. I can live with that.

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  #84 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


heiermonster View Post
How do you gauge position sizing?

I know a few times in this journal you've had so-so days and then loaded up on contracts, caught a winner and turned a scratch or loss day into a winner (like this Monday).

I'm a novice trader so I am not questioning your logic in doing so, only asking what is different, what do you see that gives you the confidence to go "all-in"? What clues are you looking for in the price action that causes you to double down or scale-in vs take the loss?

Any advice on stop placement? What do you do regarding stops? I know you state which trades you get stopped out of, but not much about why that particular price or what you saw that caused you to bail at that point. Do you use hard-stops or just monitor the price action and make decisions?

I know I fear that one of these days you're going to report to that one of those 34 contract trades went against you.

Thank you for this wonderful journal, I learn something every time I read it.

I think the "all in" trades are not a good idea ever. I don't recommend them, and am actually working out a thing or two with my broker to where I'm not allowed to do them, or else I'm going to only keep X dollars in my account to limit my $ available for margin.

Yes, I do them, but I don't approve of my own behavior. haha As far as clues in price action, I think many times I'm not quite in sync or with the flow and get in a drawdown early in the day.... but then as I continue to watch price action throughout the day I find that perfect looking trade with the rhythm and at this point in the day I am very familiar with how price is moving that day.

I fear that sometime one will get away from me too, so that's why I'm about to CREATE AN ATMOSPHERE THAT'S CONDUCIVE TO THE BEHAVIOR I WANT. Always something important in life, whatever our vice.

Stop placement: I take it you're asking about the INITIAL STOP placement. It varies a little with the style I'm trading, but in general it's SUPPOSED to be A) just outside the noise of the most recent swing high/low or B) Just beyond the high/low of the entry signal candle on the longer timeframe. Sometimes I give it more or less room based on volatility and my feel of the market environment.

Hope this helps.

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  #85 (permalink)
 Rad4633 
Greensboro NC
 
Experience: None
Platform: TOS/ NT Dorman
Trading: ES TF CL
 
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indextrader7 View Post
I think the "all in" trades are not a good idea ever. I don't recommend them, and am actually working out a thing or two with my broker to where I'm not allowed to do them, or else I'm going to only keep X dollars in my account to limit my $ available for margin.

Yes, I do them, but I don't approve of my own behavior. haha As far as clues in price action, I think many times I'm not quite in sync or with the flow and get in a drawdown early in the day.... but then as I continue to watch price action throughout the day I find that perfect looking trade with the rhythm and at this point in the day I am very familiar with how price is moving that day.

I fear that sometime one will get away from me too, so that's why I'm about to CREATE AN ATMOSPHERE THAT'S CONDUCIVE TO THE BEHAVIOR I WANT. Always something important in life, whatever our vice.

Stop placement: I take it you're asking about the INITIAL STOP placement. It varies a little with the style I'm trading, but in general it's SUPPOSED to be A) just outside the noise of the most recent swing high/low or B) Just beyond the high/low of the entry signal candle on the longer timeframe. Sometimes I give it more or less room based on volatility and my feel of the market environment.

Hope this helps.

Watching Tf for first time how bad are the gaps, and how much do u normally scalp for with what stop loss, sorry for being direct Im just curious bc this thing is low on Vol. I traded live this am for 14ticks with 10 tick stop, suggestions?

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  #86 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


Rad4633 View Post
Watching Tf for first time how bad are the gaps, and how much do u normally scalp for with what stop loss, sorry for being direct Im just curious bc this thing is low on Vol. I traded live this am for 14ticks with 10 tick stop, suggestions?

You can watch my video yesterday (5-1-12) where I used my scalping method and see how I traded the method. All my trades' ticks P/L were: +4, -9, +9, +10, +5, +1, +4, -6, +8, +7, +8, 0, +2, 0, +6

I don't hold positions over night, so I don't keep up with gaps, but you can look at a chart and see for yourself pretty quickly.

Volume: I can look at my DOM right now (mid day, lower volume time) and I see an average of 50 contracts bid/ask at every level for 20 ticks above and below last price. If you're trading more than 50 contracts then you should probably trade ES.

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  #87 (permalink)
heiermonster
Buffalo, NY
 
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2012
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What draws you to TF over other products?

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  #88 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


heiermonster View Post
What draws you to TF over other products?

A small history of markets I've traded:

I traded stocks for years, then went to forex, forex seemed a bit sketchy and unregulated, so then I just went to trading the Euro on the futures markets, then I started taking a look at index futures and liked the way they moved. I traded only ES for a few years up until this February I switched to TF.

TF has a broader daily range, more intraday volatility and a smaller tick size than ES. If your method or approach can trade either/or ~equally well and you're not moving truckloads, then TF is the better market. For me, I'm taking small swings, so more ticks (10 ticks/point vs ES 4) means a much smaller effect on P/L from commissions too. ES has TONS of volume from all the quant and HFT guys, and that causes it to trade in ugly (for my style) tight, untradeable ranges.

TF demands discipline though. It's unforgiving, and you can't bring an ego into play with it. It will run 100 ticks straight against you. TF is not for beginners.

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  #89 (permalink)
SteveH
Orlando, Florida, USA
 
 
Posts: 34 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 3 given, 96 received

The TF was a more wild contract when it was on the Globex as the ER2. It's grown much more tame (read choppy) since then.

I've been trading the CL for 1.5 years now (TF/ER2 7 years before that) and don't think anyone who has switched would ever want to go back to the e-minis unless the VIX kicked up over 30 consistently again. There's a more free-flowing feel you get on the Crude contract than the e-minis. It's not bounded by the movement of a 500 or 2000 stock index which, apparently, allows it to have intraday crashes and melt-ups looking at a 5 min chart so often that the media doesn't even report them as something particularly out of the ordinary.

Your scalping method would be more like 12-20 ticks there and you could keep your stop to 5-7 ticks since you trade edge cases on limits rather than buy/sell stop into a breakout/breakdown.

I saw in one of your videos where you caught a big breakout on half of your position. You trailed your stop up with the comment, "I can do this all day". I think the next big breakthrough in your trading is going to be when you realize that you should be ADDING aggressively to your position with that kind of price action. Let the market catch you on the losers when your position is light and catch you in a heavy position when you're right and getting more right with each passing minute.

The most vulnerable part of the trade is the beginning because the market hasn't shown whether or not you're holding onto a loser, a winner or a great winner. For this reason, you give the market your ante for playing, not the size you can scale into, which is held in reserve (piecemeal) until more information is shown in your favor.

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  #90 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


SteveH View Post
The TF was a more wild contract when it was on the Globex as the ER2. It's grown much more tame (read choppy) since then.

I've been trading the CL for 1.5 years now (TF/ER2 7 years before that) and don't think anyone who has switched would ever want to go back to the e-minis unless the VIX kicked up over 30 consistently again. There's a more free-flowing feel you get on the Crude contract than the e-minis. It's not bounded by the movement of a 500 or 2000 stock index which, apparently, allows it to have intraday crashes and melt-ups looking at a 5 min chart so often that the media doesn't even report them as something particularly out of the ordinary.

Your scalping method would be more like 12-20 ticks there and you could keep your stop to 5-7 ticks since you trade edge cases on limits rather than buy/sell stop into a breakout/breakdown.

I saw in one of your videos where you caught a big breakout on half of your position. You trailed your stop up with the comment, "I can do this all day". I think the next big breakthrough in your trading is going to be when you realize that you should be ADDING aggressively to your position with that kind of price action. Let the market catch you on the losers when your position is light and catch you in a heavy position when you're right and getting more right with each passing minute.

The most vulnerable part of the trade is the beginning because the market hasn't shown whether or not you're holding onto a loser, a winner or a great winner. For this reason, you give the market your ante for playing, not the size you can scale into, which is held in reserve (piecemeal) until more information is shown in your favor.

I actually looked at CL the other day and was pretty impressed with how the flow of the market looked. It's something I'm planning on looking into eventually, I'm very happy with my TF trading currently though. Kinda the "If it ain't broke.... " thought process. I do like to only trade one market. I get a much more intimate feel for the behavior.

Yes, I typically add to losers and pretty much never add to winners. Certainly something to improve.

I really really appreciate you taking the time to offer some insight into areas I can improve. Thank you. Don't hesitate to speak up more!

All the best,

IT7

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  #91 (permalink)
 stillgrinding 
Palm Beach, Florida, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, ThinkorSwim
Trading: Futures, US stocks
 
Posts: 5 since Mar 2012
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SteveH View Post
The most vulnerable part of the trade is the beginning because the market hasn't shown whether or not you're holding onto a loser, a winner or a great winner. For this reason, you give the market your ante for playing, not the size you can scale into, which is held in reserve (piecemeal) until more information is shown in your favor.

Thanks for this gem. Best thing I've read all day
Great journal btw. Keep up the good work...

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RainyLake
International Falls MN USA
 
 
Posts: 1 since Apr 2012
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I'm an old trader always looking to expand my horizons. The other day you mentioned Alexander Elder. I haven't read any of his books. Which one would you recommend reading first? Thanks for the thread, keep up the good work

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


RainyLake View Post
I'm an old trader always looking to expand my horizons. The other day you mentioned Alexander Elder. I haven't read any of his books. Which one would you recommend reading first? Thanks for the thread, keep up the good work

Nothing mind blowing, but "Trading for a Living" is a good book.

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  #94 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Built a long position on this pullback.

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  #95 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

That one didn't work out!

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  #96 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Sorry to not have been around as much last week. Tons of things demanding of my time right now. I'll post something up this weekend.

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  #97 (permalink)
toucan94506
danville ca usa
 
 
Posts: 51 since Mar 2012
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indextrader7 View Post
Sorry to not have been around as much last week. Tons of things demanding of my time right now. I'll post something up this weekend.



You missed a couple of extremely good trading days.


Cheers

toucan

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 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


toucan94506 View Post
You missed a couple of extremely good trading days.


Cheers

toucan

I got a little bit in!

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  #99 (permalink)
cma6
Concord, NH, USA
 
 
Posts: 2 since May 2012
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Steve, can we infer from your comment that you are basically a breakout trader as opposed to a range trader?

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  #100 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Reviewing some of the missed action in the markets for this past week.

Here's an example of how I look at momentum displayed right on the price action and how it might give us clues/hints to future action.

Monitor the depth of pullbacks against the trend, and the depth of new legs in the direction of the trend. They don't give information by themselves, but when you compare one pullback vs the last pullback... THAT is information as to what the momentum is doing.


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