Short term TF trading - futures io
futures io



Short term TF trading


Discussion in Trading Journals

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one indextrader7 with 449 posts (941 thanks)
    2. looks_two josh with 36 posts (46 thanks)
    3. looks_3 Victory Trader with 26 posts (3 thanks)
    4. looks_4 cmmichaels with 21 posts (16 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one SteveH with 2.7 thanks per post
    2. looks_two indextrader7 with 2.1 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 Traderwolf with 1.6 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 josh with 1.3 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 112,195 views
    2. thumb_up 1,209 thanks given
    3. group 90 followers
    1. forum 797 posts
    2. attach_file 283 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Short term TF trading

(login for full post details)
  #401 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


michalmalec View Post
Hello Indextrader7

Thanks for your thread, it's very good. I am new to this forum.

Thanks for yesterday report. you are very honest. We all can learn from it. Especially part 3 video.

I am not somebody who can give you any advice about trading, because i am not so good as you are, but
stay positive and learn from it, in the end it's only 2 600 $, that's not bad for such a lesson.
Think about it as an education. Maybe you can print that last trade and put it above your computer to
remind you to stick with your rules and plan. I have experienced similar thing in my very short trading history


I do have a technical question, if you don't mind to answer?

I did read whole thread and i quite like it, i started to experiment with tick charts this week, just watching them,
not trading from them yet, but i do have a following problem.
I use CQG data, but when i open a tick chart (200 tick) at the start of the session and when i reload that same chart in the end of the session, bars look a little bit different, It is usually good for first two trading hours and then it starts to change a bit, it seems that i am loosing ticks somewhere or i don't know.
I use CQG data and ninjatrader. It looks, that charts in realtime look different from a backfill for the same session, this happens especially when the market is volatile. Can you help me with this, what am i doing wrong?
bad data provider? lag in internet connection? or? What data provider do you use?
Thanks for answer. Hope you don't mind.

Thanks againg for everything and sorry for my english, i am not a native speaker so it's very simple.

Good luck and stay disciplined

Hello, thank you for the tip about putting a picture of the trade up, I think that's a good idea.

I can't help you with your ticks/data problem. I haven't ever experienced anything like that. I use Mirus/Zenfire.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #402 (permalink)
toucan94506
danville ca usa
 
 
Posts: 51 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 6 given, 41 received


michalmalec View Post
Hello Indextrader7

Thanks for your thread, it's very good. I am new to this forum.

Thanks for yesterday report. you are very honest. We all can learn from it. Especially part 3 video.

I am not somebody who can give you any advice about trading, because i am not so good as you are, but
stay positive and learn from it, in the end it's only 2 600 $, that's not bad for such a lesson.
Think about it as an education. Maybe you can print that last trade and put it above your computer to
remind you to stick with your rules and plan. I have experienced similar thing in my very short trading history


I do have a technical question, if you don't mind to answer?

I did read whole thread and i quite like it, i started to experiment with tick charts this week, just watching them,
not trading from them yet, but i do have a following problem.
I use CQG data, but when i open a tick chart (200 tick) at the start of the session and when i reload that same chart in the end of the session, bars look a little bit different, It is usually good for first two trading hours and then it starts to change a bit, it seems that i am loosing ticks somewhere or i don't know.
I use CQG data and ninjatrader. It looks, that charts in realtime look different from a backfill for the same session, this happens especially when the market is volatile. Can you help me with this, what am i doing wrong?
bad data provider? lag in internet connection? or? What data provider do you use?
Thanks for answer. Hope you don't mind.

Thanks againg for everything and sorry for my english, i am not a native speaker so it's very simple.

Good luck and stay disciplined



michalmalec... tick charts are started using trades that make up the first tick bar that you see on a chart. When you reload, depending on the software you use, the starting tick bar can use different trades and make all the tick bars after the initial bar look somewhat different.

cheers

toucan

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #403 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

One thing I'd like to say is, yes this is a learning experience (talking about the huge loser I allowed yesterday), but at the same time, it's not like I'm a new trader and learn a lesson from doing this like... "Oh, what a great lesson, I won't do that again." The problem is that I'm not a new trader... I've done this a dozen or more times before, and "learned" this lesson many painful times before...but haven't done it in years. This, for me, is not a "lesson learned". For this to creep back into my trading is not comforting.

Also, it's not about the money lost. $2,600 is a drop in the bucket for my profits since Feb.

IT'S THE PRINCIPLE OF SUCH A MAJOR BASIC TRADING RULE VIOLATION that has me upset.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #404 (permalink)
michalmalec
London, UK
 
 
Posts: 4 since Jun 2012
Thanks: 4 given, 0 received


indextrader7 View Post
Hello, thank you for the tip about putting a picture of the trade up, I think that's a good idea.

I can't help you with your ticks/data problem. I haven't ever experienced anything like that. I use Mirus/Zenfire.


Hi, thanks for answer, i can try zenfire/mirus demo to check zenfire data feed and compare them.

One more thing:

Did your read : Enhancing trader performance, proven strategies from the cutting edge of trading psychology from Brett Steenbarger

I know you are very experienced trader, that book is a little bit about how to become a professional trader, but mentally.
I am sure you know that book.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #405 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


michalmalec View Post
Hi, thanks for answer, i can try zenfire/mirus demo to check zenfire data feed and compare them.

One more thing:

Did your read : Enhancing trader performance, proven strategies from the cutting edge of trading psychology from Brett Steenbarger

I know you are very experienced trader, that book is a little bit about how to become a professional trader, but mentally.
I am sure you know that book.

Thanks for the kind words, but at the moment I feel like I need to read "Idiots guide to daytrading", ... ah I'm just Ill at the moment. No I haven't heard of that book, I'll definitely look into it. Thank you.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #406 (permalink)
 Traderwolf 
Raleigh,NC
 
Experience: None
Platform: Versatile and Stable
Broker: Reliable and Accurate
Trading: Money
 
Traderwolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 250 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 154 given, 1,028 received


indextrader7 View Post

Also, it's not about the money lost. $2,600 is a drop in the bucket for my profits since Feb.

IT'S THE PRINCIPLE OF SUCH A MAJOR BASIC TRADING RULE VIOLATION that has me upset.

IT7,

Another golden thought.

Was the rule violation not using a stop or moving the stop away from the target when trade went bad? I take it you moved your stop since it looks like you use OCO orders.


Thanks for your transparency. Takes guts to own up to trading mistakes....

Wolf

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Traderwolf for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #407 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


Traderwolf View Post
IT7,

Another golden thought.

Was the rule violation not using a stop or moving the stop away from the target when trade went bad? I take it you moved your stop since it looks like you use OCO orders.


Thanks for your transparency. Takes guts to own up to trading mistakes....

Wolf

I had a proper stop in place, and just canceled the order. I just watched the market go and go, cursing the whole time, "knowing" that it would turn around at any moment.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #408 (permalink)
michalmalec
London, UK
 
 
Posts: 4 since Jun 2012
Thanks: 4 given, 0 received


indextrader7 View Post
Thanks for the kind words, but at the moment I feel like I need to read "Idiots guide to daytrading", ... ah I'm just Ill at the moment. No I haven't heard of that book, I'll definitely look into it. Thank you.

No you don't need to read any idiots guide to daytrading, you are good, only one mistake upset you, dont feel frustrated.

Actually, i think BigMike can recommend him, Steenbarger is psychologist, psychiatrist, as we look at the charts, price action or orderflow and look for the patterns, he looks for the behavioral patterns and try to solve them. Everyone have some behavioral patterns.

He is a trader too, and he helps professional traders to overcome their problems in trading.

Check this video to see what is he like:

skip first 2 minutes,
youtube.com/watch?v=jKF3G3RYxXE&feature=plcp

his old web
brettsteenbarger.com/articles.htm

and a blog
traderfeed.blogspot.co.uk/

I think he wrote 3 books, wiley published them, i have a another one which is called "Your daily Trading coach" too, I liked both of them and often read them again and again, i like psychology.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #409 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Flat on the day today pretty much. I worked my way back making some good trades (only trading 1 contract), and then had a 37 tick loser to end the day and wipe out all profits.

Here's my stats as of end of day today 6-13-12.











Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #410 (permalink)
eacherlunch
birmingham, al
 
 
Posts: 18 since May 2012
Thanks: 11 given, 6 received

I appreciate your candor and analysis in the videos. Wont offer any sage advice, but will say it happens/has happened to all of us. Great spot here to learn and move on.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to eacherlunch for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #411 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

I really love trading, and I'm looking forward to the challenge of getting better every day. I'm excited about the challenge of coming out of this drawdown. 91 ticks.... you're mine!


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #412 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


toucan94506 View Post
michalmalec... tick charts are started using trades that make up the first tick bar that you see on a chart. When you reload, depending on the software you use, the starting tick bar can use different trades and make all the tick bars after the initial bar look somewhat different.

cheers

toucan

This is true; however, NT starts a new bar at the beginning of each session. The question is, michalmalec, are you seeing the number of bars change significantly? CQG should have tick backfill, so perhaps you should send a screen shot of before and after a reload to support at NT.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #413 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


indextrader7 View Post
Thanks for the kind words, but at the moment I feel like I need to read "Idiots guide to daytrading", ... ah I'm just Ill at the moment. No I haven't heard of that book, I'll definitely look into it. Thank you.

Dr. Brett's blog is an awesome free resource with tons of useful info, you would really like it. Google "steenbarger blog" ... golden stuff.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #414 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


josh View Post
Dr. Brett's blog is an awesome free resource with tons of useful info, you would really like it. Google "steenbarger blog" ... golden stuff.

Ok, so this guy has a lot of books. Which one would you guys familiar with him recommend I start with?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #415 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


indextrader7 View Post
Ok, so this guy has a lot of books. Which one would you guys familiar with him recommend I start with?

I have not read any of his published books -- I'm sure they are worthwhile, but honestly his blog has several years worth of articles with real market examples, concise and to the point, and they will keep you busy for a while.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #416 (permalink)
toucan94506
danville ca usa
 
 
Posts: 51 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 6 given, 41 received


josh View Post
This is true; however, NT starts a new bar at the beginning of each session. The question is, michalmalec, are you seeing the number of bars change significantly? CQG should have tick backfill, so perhaps you should send a screen shot of before and after a reload to support at NT.



NT may do that, but most trading software gives the user the option of loading a number of days of data or the number of bars into a chart. When using Tick charts, If I start a chart in the morning, the chart will be loaded with the number of days or number of bars that you asked for at the time you initially open the chart. This means the the initial bar will be started at a point in history that you chose and all subsequent tick bars will be based off of this starting initial trade. Tick bars will then be built using the number of ticks you want... for example a 250 tick chart will load 250 trades into each bar.

If later in the day, you open a new chart with the same symbol, or reload the current chart, the software will load the number of days or bars that you requested, only in this instance it will only go back the number of days or number of bars that you asked for ... given that part of the day is already complete, this will cause some history to be lost from the first chart and so the starting bar and initial trade will be different... The two charts will not be exactly the same and will have some differences. Not much but still different.

then again, i have not used NT in a while, so it might always load tick charts from the open....


cheers

toucan

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #417 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,094 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,558 given, 98,593 received


indextrader7 View Post
Ok, so this guy has a lot of books. Which one would you guys familiar with him recommend I start with?

All three are great, but I enjoyed "The Daily Trading Coach" the best.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #418 (permalink)
eacherlunch
birmingham, al
 
 
Posts: 18 since May 2012
Thanks: 11 given, 6 received


Big Mike View Post
All three are great, but I enjoyed "The Daily Trading Coach" the best.

Mike

+1 That is a good book.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #419 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Saw some selling pressure (tails on a few candles) and felt a swing down might be due. Shorted, allowed T1 to be hit at +10 arbitrary ticks, and managed P2 until manually trailed stop hit.

Screenr - indextrader7: 6-14-12 live trade

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #420 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

+29 ticks today. Not great trading, but a profitable day is what I needed. Chipping away from my 91 tick drawdown. (Well I extended it a bit before bringing it up, as you can see)








Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #421 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

And here is the video recap of all the trades today.
Screenr - indextrader7: 6-14-12 Recap

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #422 (permalink)
 ThatManFromTexas 
Houston,Tx
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Trading: TF
 
ThatManFromTexas's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,302 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,206 given, 4,337 received


indextrader7 View Post
Ok, so this guy has a lot of books. Which one would you guys familiar with him recommend I start with?

For what it's worth ... I've gotten more out of this thread than all the trading books I've ever read...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to ThatManFromTexas for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #423 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #424 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

As some of you may remember I'm reading "Trading Risk - Enhanced Profitability Through Risk Control".

I was mistaken from my reading a few weeks ago on what I've been calling the "Performance Ratio". That is actually called ROMAD (Returns Over MAx Drawdown). So I'll start using that term.

The real Performance Ratio = (win%) x (average win: average loss)

This ratio should be above 0.5 to be profitable for all intensive purposes. (50% win) x (1:1 win:loss) = 0.5

I've actually kept up with this for some time, but in a different way. I've posted up the chart before that has a concave breakeven curve on it, and a squiggly line representing my performance. It's an x,y plot of win% and avg win:loss ratio. The way Kenneth Grant (author of the book) uses this is to multiply the two ratios and have a single number to keep above 0.5. If it starts to go down, then you can dive into the details and find out what is causing the performance issues. If the problem is more with the win:loss, look at the numerator/denominator to find the root of the problem. If it's the denominator (average loss), then you can infer you are sacrificing on some aspect of risk management. Etc, etc.

Here's my chart with data since February. Each data point represents the average ratios for the previous rolling 50 trades.

You can see the cyclical, but consistent trading for a while, then you can see where I scalped for a while, then you can see my return to the first type pattern, and finally, you can see my poor performance as of late dropping down below the 0.5 level.



Are any of you keeping up with this? Would love to hear from you on this, whether here on the thread or by PM if you prefer. I would really appreciate seeing some others performance data.

I wonder if I will be able to get my performance ratio above some number (say... 1) and keep it there more consistently. Right now I can only "consistently" range between 0.5 and 1.0.

Again, would love to hear from others on this.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #425 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Ok guys, banked a couple ticks this morning. I'm headed out of town for a wedding Fri/Sat, then Sunday flying out to CA for a 10 day vacation. I'll probably be trading some from the laptop, but we'll play that by ear. I'll be back on the desk on the 27th.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #426 (permalink)
eacherlunch
birmingham, al
 
 
Posts: 18 since May 2012
Thanks: 11 given, 6 received


indextrader7 View Post
Ok guys, banked a couple ticks this morning. I'm headed out of town for a wedding Fri/Sat, then Sunday flying out to CA for a 10 day vacation. I'll probably be trading some from the laptop, but we'll play that by ear. I'll be back on the desk on the 27th.

Have a good trip IT7.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #427 (permalink)
 tihfa 
detroit, mi
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: SPY
 
Posts: 72 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 1,461 given, 77 received


indextrader7 View Post
Ok guys, banked a couple ticks this morning. I'm headed out of town for a wedding Fri/Sat, then Sunday flying out to CA for a 10 day vacation. I'll probably be trading some from the laptop, but we'll play that by ear. I'll be back on the desk on the 27th.

Enjoy your vacation. Looking forward to 27th!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #428 (permalink)
mastertrader
London
 
 
Posts: 3 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Just wondering what is the max size one can expect to trade in the TF with 0 or 1 tick slippage? Thanks

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #429 (permalink)
 Boomer34 
Georgia, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TOS
Broker: TOS
Trading: SPX
 
Boomer34's Avatar
 
Posts: 164 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 74 given, 57 received


mastertrader View Post
Just wondering what is the max size one can expect to trade in the TF with 0 or 1 tick slippage? Thanks

You should not experience any slippage trading the TF. Now it does not trade near the volume of the ES on a daily basis, but over the last 10 trading days, the TF has averaged just over 170,000 contracts a day.

How many contracts are you thinking about....?

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #430 (permalink)
 hector24 
austin, texas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja trader
Trading: currency futures
 
Posts: 506 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 14 given, 234 received


indextrader7 View Post
As some of you may remember I'm reading "Trading Risk - Enhanced Profitability Through Risk Control".

I was mistaken from my reading a few weeks ago on what I've been calling the "Performance Ratio". That is actually called ROMAD (Returns Over MAx Drawdown). So I'll start using that term.

The real Performance Ratio = (win%) x (average win: average loss)

This ratio should be above 0.5 to be profitable for all intensive purposes. (50% win) x (1:1 win:loss) = 0.5

I've actually kept up with this for some time, but in a different way. I've posted up the chart before that has a concave breakeven curve on it, and a squiggly line representing my performance. It's an x,y plot of win% and avg win:loss ratio. The way Kenneth Grant (author of the book) uses this is to multiply the two ratios and have a single number to keep above 0.5. If it starts to go down, then you can dive into the details and find out what is causing the performance issues. If the problem is more with the win:loss, look at the numerator/denominator to find the root of the problem. If it's the denominator (average loss), then you can infer you are sacrificing on some aspect of risk management. Etc, etc.

Here's my chart with data since February. Each data point represents the average ratios for the previous rolling 50 trades.

You can see the cyclical, but consistent trading for a while, then you can see where I scalped for a while, then you can see my return to the first type pattern, and finally, you can see my poor performance as of late dropping down below the 0.5 level.



Are any of you keeping up with this? Would love to hear from you on this, whether here on the thread or by PM if you prefer. I would really appreciate seeing some others performance data.

I wonder if I will be able to get my performance ratio above some number (say... 1) and keep it there more consistently. Right now I can only "consistently" range between 0.5 and 1.0.

Again, would love to hear from others on this.

Indextrader, is there any type of template of your performance chart. I sure would like to use it but I don't know how to code or anything like that. But it looks very interesting, almost like keeping your own eyes on top of you to make sure you perform.

Thanks
Hector

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #431 (permalink)
 greenr 
london/england
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra charts, NinjaTrader, VK Trader
Broker: CQG, AMP, VK, Kinetick
Trading: CL/6E/TF/ES
 
Posts: 952 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 562 given, 1,279 received


indextrader7 View Post
Ok, so this guy has a lot of books. Which one would you guys familiar with him recommend I start with?

The Psychology of Trading: Tools and Techniques for Minding the Markets

This is the best book i have read so far and i have the rest of his collection waiting to be read

Gave me a great understanding to what used to bug me a lot as a young trader

Why the hell we do the things that we donít understand as humans

Answered a lot of questions for me any ways

Amazon.com: The Psychology of Trading: Tools and Techniques for Minding the Markets (9780471267614): Brett N. Steenbarger: Books

" I will follow my rules, I will take my stops, I will be disciplined and i will work with the market....NOT AGAINST IT! Professional mind control is the key"
Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #432 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


mastertrader View Post
Just wondering what is the max size one can expect to trade in the TF with 0 or 1 tick slippage? Thanks

Open your DOM during normal market hours, and look at the inside bid and offer size, and look at the size one tick higher and lower. This is your answer. Should also note how often you observe a spread of more than 1 between the inside bid and offer, that will obviously be factored in.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #433 (permalink)
 heywally 
Pismo Beach CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, IB, Fidelity for 'swing' trades
Trading: ES, NQ, IBB, IWM, NG
 
heywally's Avatar
 
Posts: 160 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 80 given, 90 received


josh View Post
Dr. Brett's blog is an awesome free resource with tons of useful info, you would really like it. Google "steenbarger blog" ... golden stuff.

Yes, unbelievable free resource, goes into far more than just psychology ...

TraderFeed

"The Future Ain't what it used to be"
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to heywally for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #434 (permalink)
SteveH
Orlando, Florida, USA
 
 
Posts: 34 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 3 given, 96 received

I think psychology in trading is over-rated. The starter of this thread completely lucked out on one trade and made 9K and also brought back two nasty intraday drawdowns past 1K and turned them into lemonade. Good for him But he didn't start reaching for the psychology section of the library until he got the red hot poker for allowing a bottomless stop.

You don't need psychology to tell you to stop doing stupid things which never work mathematically over the long term. You need common sense and emotional maturity. If you have to start digging into Mommy/Daddy issues in this game, you're done. Go find a normal job where you don't get money taken from you for every little mistake you make.

I understand that you'll get warm fuzzies reading that stuff. But you're going to wind up thinking too deeply about something which is rooted far more in simple discovery of basic statistical and probability methods rather than attempting to open up a Pandora's Box of what makes you tick and reaching an epiphany.

I recently said this in another thread and it bears repeating. Most of you aren't any better than picking 30-50% winners in the long-term. If you are then you're most likely scalping your A off to get higher than this. [note: there's nothing wrong with scalping your A off just so you know it's a singles game, not a double, triple or home run game] . So if you're consistently below 50% winners, your solution to trading better is not necessarily to increase your winning pct, but to understand how to get better RR ratios *while* keeping your loss per trade fixed and low.

You can avoid digging into childhood memories of mean dogs (small Douglas Zone book joke) by not trying to mix your trading strategies in mid-stream. That is, you go for the single with the high pct win or you go for the bigger win knowing full well that your odds of winning are much lower what our threshold of negative human emotions can normally withstand.

Let me throw a curve ball in here while I'm on a baseball metaphor roll. If you trade multiple contracts and take half off at some point and let the other half "run" (whatever thay means), then you're really trading TWO systems in one account *at the same time*. I could have very well described two traders with separate accounts. The 1st one is a scalper, always exiting at a specific point and the 2nd one is allowing at least one market reaction to occur in search of greater rewards before exiting. Unless this is fully understood, then no wonder there is emotional conflict popping up sooner or later.

The main problem above, both from a math and emotional point of view is that you're constantly holding your largest risk at the point in the trade where you have the least evidence/confidence of its eventual success (i.e., the beginning...sound familiar to my first post on this forum?). If you're a "half-offer" then you're taking double hits when you're wrong no matter which trading hat you intended to wear. It's a pickle to be sure, but there's other solutions where losers are much smaller and winners can be much larger so your recovery factor is VERY high. This is where the majority of you should trade, given that you already know that scalping is not your forte.

I'm not trying to be mystical here. You simply need to emotionally accept that it is in your best interest to take a first entry sooner in a move than you're normally comfortable with and add as others see the obvious. This kind of trading does not need to take deep retraces to add or tolerate leverage going against you any more than a normal stop amount upon adding (what many of you would define as an add point, a typical swing high/low, is a common mistake which causes disinterest after a few attempts). Otherwise, you're better off going for all-in / all-out trades with 1.5 to 1.8 net RR ratios, trying to capture that 50% of the time in either trading ranges or within the price legs of a strong trend. Either way, both methods share the same theme: low tolerance for non-shallow, corrective moves.

[I have to stop here. My fingers are tired from tapping on this so -called "miracle device"...aka iPad]

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to SteveH for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #435 (permalink)
 greenr 
london/england
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra charts, NinjaTrader, VK Trader
Broker: CQG, AMP, VK, Kinetick
Trading: CL/6E/TF/ES
 
Posts: 952 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 562 given, 1,279 received


SteveH View Post
I think psychology in trading is over-rated. The starter of this thread completely lucked out on one trade and made 9K and also brought back two nasty intraday drawdowns past 1K and turned them into lemonade. Good for him But he didn't start reaching for the psychology section of the library until he got the red hot poker for allowing a bottomless stop.

You don't need psychology to tell you to stop doing stupid things which never work mathematically over the long term. You need common sense and emotional maturity. If you have to start digging into Mommy/Daddy issues in this game, you're done. Go find a normal job where you don't get money taken from you for every little mistake you make.

I understand that you'll get warm fuzzies reading that stuff. But you're going to wind up thinking too deeply about something which is rooted far more in simple discovery of basic statistical and probability methods rather than attempting to open up a Pandora's Box of what makes you tick and reaching an epiphany.

I recently said this in another thread and it bears repeating. Most of you aren't any better than picking 30-50% winners in the long-term. If you are then you're most likely scalping your A off to get higher than this. [note: there's nothing wrong with scalping your A off just so you know it's a singles game, not a double, triple or home run game] . So if you're consistently below 50% winners, your solution to trading better is not necessarily to increase your winning pct, but to understand how to get better RR ratios *while* keeping your loss per trade fixed and low.

You can avoid digging into childhood memories of mean dogs (small Douglas Zone book joke) by not trying to mix your trading strategies in mid-stream. That is, you go for the single with the high pct win or you go for the bigger win knowing full well that your odds of winning are much lower what our threshold of negative human emotions can normally withstand.

Let me throw a curve ball in here while I'm on a baseball metaphor roll. If you trade multiple contracts and take half off at some point and let the other half "run" (whatever thay means), then you're really trading TWO systems in one account *at the same time*. I could have very well described two traders with separate accounts. The 1st one is a scalper, always exiting at a specific point and the 2nd one is allowing at least one market reaction to occur in search of greater rewards before exiting. Unless this is fully understood, then no wonder there is emotional conflict popping up sooner or later.

The main problem above, both from a math and emotional point of view is that you're constantly holding your largest risk at the point in the trade where you have the least evidence/confidence of its eventual success (i.e., the beginning...sound familiar to my first post on this forum?). If you're a "half-offer" then you're taking double hits when you're wrong no matter which trading hat you intended to wear. It's a pickle to be sure, but there's other solutions where losers are much smaller and winners can be much larger so your recovery factor is VERY high. This is where the majority of you should trade, given that you already know that scalping is not your forte.

I'm not trying to be mystical here. You simply need to emotionally accept that it is in your best interest to take a first entry sooner in a move than you're normally comfortable with and add as others see the obvious. This kind of trading does not need to take deep retraces to add or tolerate leverage going against you any more than a normal stop amount upon adding (what many of you would define as an add point, a typical swing high/low, is a common mistake which causes disinterest after a few attempts). Otherwise, you're better off going for all-in / all-out trades with 1.5 to 1.8 net RR ratios, trying to capture that 50% of the time in either trading ranges or within the price legs of a strong trend. Either way, both methods share the same theme: low tolerance for non-shallow, corrective moves.

[I have to stop here. My fingers are tired from tapping on this so -called "miracle device"...aka iPad]

Mathematically explain to me them why 90% of people cannot trade successful and among these are some of the most intelligent humans?

Explain to me why a trader can have a proven successful system, that thay have been given or developed them selfs. Back tested and proven....but still cannot follow a trade plan and follow simple rules?

" I will follow my rules, I will take my stops, I will be disciplined and i will work with the market....NOT AGAINST IT! Professional mind control is the key"
Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #436 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


greenr View Post
Mathematically explain to me them why 90% of people cannot trade successful and among these are some of the most intelligent humans?

Explain to me why a trader can have a proven successful system, that thay have been given or developed them selfs. Back tested and proven....but still cannot follow a trade plan and follow simple rules?

You do not define "successful", much less have stats based on an objective definition of the word to show that 10% are, and even then, you have no easy way to define "intelligent." In other words, your first sentence is based on anecdotes only, which means you really have no case.

Also, what proven successful system do you have with objectively defined rules? If you had such a thing, why in the world would you trust a person to trade it and not simply make it a bot? And if you have such a system, why not just trade it, and why would you sell it or give it away?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #437 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


SteveH View Post
Either way, both methods share the same theme: low tolerance for non-shallow, corrective moves.

But this depends very much on the market on any given day, yes? And so what is your advice for deeper, more corrective moves, or generally when the market is not rocketing? Don't trade? Go all out and reverse and play it more as a range?

Your post here seems to focus only on risk management; however, as important as risk may be (probably most important), determining the entry as an "early" entry as you say requires more experience and market awareness than most possess. Further, it seems to run counter to your entire premise, which is to add to a market which is going one's direction. If one is doing this, isn't the last thing on his mind to get an "early" entry, which is by definition counter to current momentum?

Thanks for the post Steve, looking forward to your thoughts and reply.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #438 (permalink)
 aligator 
Las Vegas, NV
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
Trading: Futures
 
aligator's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,424 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 1,057 given, 5,841 received


SteveH View Post
I think psychology in trading is over-rated.

You don't need psychology to tell you to stop doing stupid things which never work mathematically over the long term. You need common sense and emotional maturity.

Well said! If you need a shrink to trade you are in the wrong business.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #439 (permalink)
 jesse777 
adelaide
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: OPTIMAS FUTURES
Trading: futures 6E,TF
 
Posts: 3 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 2 given, 1 received

hi indextrader7,

Would just like to say well done on your trading success so far!

I trade in a very similar style to yourself. im looking to go live 2nd July after fine tuning my trading style I feel im in a good space to trade from.

Together with 30 tick ( fine tune my entries ) I USE 30min for overall market structure ,S/R . 4Betterenko & 3 range .For me, I feel I best read the flow with these charts.

A bit about myself I grew up in South Africa lived in the UK for the past 8 years and have recently retired from professional cricket and immigrated to Aus with my Aus wife.

My goal is to trade professionally !

once again well done on your great start!

kind regards
Ant

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to jesse777 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #440 (permalink)
 greenr 
london/england
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra charts, NinjaTrader, VK Trader
Broker: CQG, AMP, VK, Kinetick
Trading: CL/6E/TF/ES
 
Posts: 952 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 562 given, 1,279 received


josh View Post
You do not define "successful", much less have stats based on an objective definition of the word to show that 10% are, and even then, you have no easy way to define "intelligent." In other words, your first sentence is based on anecdotes only, which means you really have no case.

Also, what proven successful system do you have with objectively defined rules? If you had such a thing, why in the world would you trust a person to trade it and not simply make it a bot? And if you have such a system, why not just trade it, and why would you sell it or give it away?

Yes 10% is a vague figure, but it has been proven by most brokers....?

I don’t have hard evidence but this is a known fact

Intelligent means high end doctors and college professors

My words were purely a point, trading is 80% physiological. Some people just so happen to get bought up with the right mentality, but again very few

99% of people who i see trading, know how to trade and most are good traders. But they lack the self control and understanding due to physiological factors involved. BOT`s dont even come into this equation, a BOT trades a purely simple signal based strategies. They will never be able to trade like humans this is completely off topic.

Rules such as following a simple task like sticking to a daily stop loss, a determined stop loss per trade, max draw downs, waiting for trade triggers and sticking to limited trading times. If you need a shrink to trade then yes you are in the wrong business.......i never said you need a shrink. I am stating you need to understand the physiological bias naturally created in the human brain

This is why so many people fail in this business

Every professional on here that have been trading for over 5-10 years will tell you even to this day they have to keep on top of their physiological issues to keep them self’s on top of their game. In face i have just got back from New York were in meet some local commodities traders and they backed this up for me stating that trading is a mental mind game......"its obvious"

You can use all the statistics and probabilities you can think of, this will not make you a successful trader!
If it does you are very lucky and one of few or you were bought up by other professionals in this business that understand the mental mind state needed to be a trader

@researcher247 and @Big Mike im sure will back me on this

" I will follow my rules, I will take my stops, I will be disciplined and i will work with the market....NOT AGAINST IT! Professional mind control is the key"
Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #441 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Hello everyone, I hope the trading has been good.

I made it back from beautiful Northern California. I'm refreshed for sure. Spent most of the time on a lake up there, then went through the mountains, and then down the coast on hwy 1. Beautiful country, and would really recommend making the trip if you haven't.

I'm looking forward to getting back to trading. I'm at a starbucks now, as my cable/internet is down. Guy coming to fix it at 10am tomorrow, which makes me pretty much miss the day tomorrow too.

Good to be back.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #442 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Went long off a small double bottom going into the close. +10 on first half, +4 on the 2nd looking for a runner.

Paid for my Starbucks.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #443 (permalink)
 WarEagle 
Birmingham, AL
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SierraChart
Broker: DDT/Rithmic
Trading: TF/ZN/CL
 
WarEagle's Avatar
 
Posts: 30 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 56 given, 25 received

Welcome back!



Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #444 (permalink)
 cmmichaels 
London England
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Metatrader
Trading: Spot $
 
Posts: 91 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 1,075 given, 149 received

Good to have you back mate looking forward to the posts

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #445 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Internet STILL down. At starbucks again this afternoon.

Took a small countertrend trade here. Fading weakness heading into previous swing high.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #446 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Grinded out a small profit into the close. Several break even trades due to me wanting a bigger move than the market was giving. Could have scalped 5 ticks or so on nearly every trade I took.

+5 average ticks per contract. Paid for my coffee again.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #447 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Looking like a breakeven day today at best.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #448 (permalink)
 Traderwolf 
Raleigh,NC
 
Experience: None
Platform: Versatile and Stable
Broker: Reliable and Accurate
Trading: Money
 
Traderwolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 250 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 154 given, 1,028 received


indextrader7 View Post
Looking like a breakeven day today at best.


Nothing wrong with that. Avoiding the big loss days is where you make money over time from my experience. Breaking even or small losses are to be expected. Hope you pulled it off.


Wolf

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Traderwolf for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #449 (permalink)
 cmmichaels 
London England
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Metatrader
Trading: Spot $
 
Posts: 91 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 1,075 given, 149 received

Hope everythings going well IT7 we all miss you man.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to cmmichaels for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #450 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

I'm having a cow over here. Haven't had internet since I returned from my vacation on June 26. They're having to run an entire new line now. The company (Brighthouse) has really really poorly managed this from the moment I called in on the 26th.

I am on a first-name basis here at Starbucks though.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #451 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Pullback entry long here. Stop below the entry candle. Will take 1/2 off at prev SH, then manage rest.



Stopped out on this trade. Looking for re-entry on a good 250tick candle.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #452 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012



Actually a s/r level to trade off of this time, and a nice R:R

Stopped out. 11:33

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #453 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


indextrader7 View Post
I'm having a cow over here. Haven't had internet since I returned from my vacation on June 26. They're having to run an entire new line now. The company (Brighthouse) has really really poorly managed this from the moment I called in on the 26th.

I am on a first-name basis here at Starbucks though.

I had a three month internet nightmare late last year, and the solution was to run a new line. I had some similar problems a week ago but thankfully they only lasted about three days. A reliable internet connection is the most basic requirement for the type of trading we do; if it's unreliable, the mind can't focus on what it needs to.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #454 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


indextrader7 View Post


Actually a s/r level to trade off of this time, and a nice R:R

Stopped out. 11:33

You may simply be late to the game ... an early afternoon runup may occur, but the real money was off the low, and even off the first rotation, but now it's had several pushes up, and it's at a level that has attracted real sellers. Easy to buy now, which means it probably won't pay off. Hard for many to buy at the low, and as a result it's where the real reward was. But as always, anything can happen.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #455 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012



Stopped at BE. Can't get a decent leg.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #456 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012



yeeehawwww out at +25 ticks

Brings me to up a few hundred on the day, and I'm hungry. Adios my friends.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #457 (permalink)
 trendisyourfriend 
Legendary Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,051 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,702 given, 5,242 received


indextrader7 View Post
I'm having a cow over here. ....

Pardon my english ignorance but what does having a cow mean? At first, i thought a cow had eaten your internet cable but i am sure it means something else

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to trendisyourfriend for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #458 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Got caught early on trying to enter on a pullback that simply had farther down to go than I expected. I even allowed the combination of a few losers in a row, and a comment about sellers in the area convince me to take a short trade, which I managed to get out at breakeven. Then the pullback was complete, shorts were trapped, and it provided the fuel for the trade I'd been waiting for the whole time. You really don't need to be right that much to make money in this game.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #459 (permalink)
 Rad4633 
Greensboro NC
 
Experience: None
Platform: TOS/ NT Dorman
Trading: ES TF CL
 
Rad4633's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,352 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 2,651 given, 893 received


josh View Post
You may simply be late to the game ... an early afternoon runup may occur, but the real money was off the low, and even off the first rotation, but now it's had several pushes up, and it's at a level that has attracted real sellers. Easy to buy now, which means it probably won't pay off. Hard for many to buy at the low, and as a result it's where the real reward was. But as always, anything can happen.

Josh, I know what you mean but what do you look at to buy at the bottom. Exhaustion, confluence,prior res, retest strength????Curious how another trader sees it bc I just guess for it sorta

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #460 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


indextrader7 View Post
Got caught early on trying to enter on a pullback that simply had farther down to go than I expected. I even allowed the combination of a few losers in a row, and a comment about sellers in the area convince me to take a short trade, which I managed to get out at breakeven. Then the pullback was complete, shorts were trapped, and it provided the fuel for the trade I'd been waiting for the whole time. You really don't need to be right that much to make money in this game.

Way to get back on the train. One lesson I suppose is, don't listen to the opinions of others I never put any weight on what anyone else says about a trade idea, whether it's agreeing or disagreeing with my own. I was very wrong about a long being too late here, but I certainly didn't short it there, thus my being wrong didn't cost me a dime; I was a bit surprised when you shorted. At least I expected a bit of rotation and chop, but it just kept going. The important thing is that you don't try to fight it, and got out of your short. Reversing to long was a nice bonus.

By the way IT, I wanted to thank you for inspiring me with your nice spreadsheet stats to create my own robust sheet. Since I started tracking things this way in late June I have had very good results, and I attribute much of that to your insistence that I create my own spreadsheet, which I did and have learned so much in the process. True what you say about being right -- as these stats show, I am only 40% right, but have a 17% return with a -6.8% drawdown since late June. Knowing objectively how I'm doing, with a focus on risk, has been a huge part of keeping me focused on not just the raw P/L, which is really only a small part of how we are actually doing.

I strongly recommend anyone who's struggling to create your own spreadsheet to monitor your risk-adjusted performance!!! IT7 motivated me to do this, and I hope you take his lead and do it as I have done.


Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #461 (permalink)
 itrade2win 
New York
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
Trading: E-mini S&P 500
 
Posts: 753 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 447 given, 437 received


josh View Post
Way to get back on the train. One lesson I suppose is, don't listen to the opinions of others I never put any weight on what anyone else says about a trade idea, whether it's agreeing or disagreeing with my own. I was very wrong about a long being too late here, but I certainly didn't short it there, thus my being wrong didn't cost me a dime; I was a bit surprised when you shorted. At least I expected a bit of rotation and chop, but it just kept going. The important thing is that you don't try to fight it, and got out of your short. Reversing to long was a nice bonus.

By the way IT, I wanted to thank you for inspiring me with your nice spreadsheet stats to create my own robust sheet. Since I started tracking things this way in late June I have had very good results, and I attribute much of that to your insistence that I create my own spreadsheet, which I did and have learned so much in the process. True what you say about being right -- as these stats show, I am only 40% right, but have a 17% return with a -6.8% drawdown since late June. Knowing objectively how I'm doing, with a focus on risk, has been a huge part of keeping me focused on not just the raw P/L, which is really only a small part of how we are actually doing.

I strongly recommend anyone who's struggling to create your own spreadsheet to monitor your risk-adjusted performance!!! IT7 motivated me to do this, and I hope you take his lead and do it as I have done.


Hey Josh,

Do you have a spreadsheet that you created that you wouldn't mind sharing?

Ryan

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #462 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


Rad4633 View Post
Josh, I know what you mean but what do you look at to buy at the bottom. Exhaustion, confluence,prior res, retest strength????Curious how another trader sees it bc I just guess for it sorta

Well, we are all guessing every time we take a trade. We cannot manage where the market will go next, but with a good entry location we can minimize our initial risk, and then manage it more effectively. All we can really have a say-so about is when we get in, and when we exit.

I will show you my chart with entries from this morning, but it won't be very helpful because it's what's on your screen too. By the way, I trade ES so that's what you're seeing. I do not know the Russell and would not dare trade it without observing it for several months first.




And this last sentence is really the key for me. I have improved steadily, though I've had my moments where I felt utterly clueless, largely because I am simply more familiar with my market. I know what it likes to do. I have learned by watching my charts, the DOM, and the tape, when she's ready to do her thing. I am often a little wrong, as you can see from the first trade here. But when I'm wrong, I'm usually wrong small. I had 1320 to 1322 marked as an area I may want to buy, through simple analysis, though my preference at the close yesterday was to be short today; unfortunately the market did it without me overnight so I could only trade what was there today.

But a good location is only half the story. As you can see, I tried to buy 22 but was early. So it made a 2 tick new low to 20, then tried again, only 1 tick lower. Watching the tape and DOM I saw the bids holding, the volume present to support the market, and thus the market had shown me enough to take the small risk to find out if I was right or not. Enough volume at the new lows to indicate trapped shorts, yet not enough vertical movement to justify it. What I did not do was attempt to identify a "setup," quantify the trade with an indicator oversold or other plug-in-a-number method. This works for some people apparently, but it does not for me. I do not like to try to bottom-pick, but if you pull up a 15 minute chart of the opening this morning, you will see overlapping bars moving down. For about an hour the market was essentially auctioning for buyers. This was not vertical development, it was down-sloping horizontal. Good short opportunities early, but the mood of the market was a methodical searching for buyers, not a true selloff of the kind we want to be in on.

I'm a little embarrassed that this is the only long I took. I missed the bulk of the opportunity. Yet, I took 2 ticks of heat, had a 4 tick stop, and made 14. It's a good trade-off, but I can do much better. I did short near the end of the day, but again, risk was quantified and very small, and I tried 3 times, losing only 6 ticks total, before a decent winner on the 4th try. I could have been totally wrong, but even if I had been, the loss would have been very manageable.

In short, know your market (the Russell I presume). Anything else is, for me, fluff and excess to satisfy the ego.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #463 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


itrade2win View Post
Do you have a spreadsheet that you created that you wouldn't mind sharing?

Ryan, I asked IT7 this same question in late May via PM. He told me that he would help me in any way he could, but that he highly recommended building my own. I thanked him, and while I did not want to start from scratch, I took his advice.

His advice was full of wisdom, because being forced to create my own caused me to think of the purpose of what I actually need to see on a spreadsheet. I actually wrote down with pen and paper, "What do I need to know?" This included things such as "Am I risking more than I need to in achieving my returns?"

Had IT7 simply given me his spreadsheet, I would never have really benefited from the purpose of it, which is to be aware of the purpose of keeping the records in the first place. So, I will give you the same advice and answer that he gave me: I will be happy to help you in any way I can, but you will actually benefit if you create your own. Then you own it; then you can make changes to it, you can add what you want, and remove what you want. You will come up with good ideas that I have not had, and you will be able to implement it. None of that is possible if I share mine. But anything you need, just send me a PM and I'll be happy to help you with it.

So, I thank IT7 for "teaching a man how to fish" instead of simply feeding me what I wanted, and I guarantee you will feel the same way. For the record, I was not an excel guru, but I have become very capable in the last month at it. All you need to be found is on google, and this is a web site I found where I based most of my stuff on. You can download his sample and use the ideas. It seems like a lot at first, but give it a couple of weeks of steady work and it will be very nice:

Excel Dynamic Named Ranges = Never Manually Updating Your Charts | Gilligan on Data by Tim Wilson

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #464 (permalink)
 itrade2win 
New York
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
Trading: E-mini S&P 500
 
Posts: 753 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 447 given, 437 received


josh View Post
Ryan, I asked IT7 this same question in late May via PM. He told me that he would help me in any way he could, but that he highly recommended building my own. I thanked him, and while I did not want to start from scratch, I took his advice.

His advice was full of wisdom, because being forced to create my own caused me to think of the purpose of what I actually need to see on a spreadsheet. I actually wrote down with pen and paper, "What do I need to know?" This included things such as "Am I risking more than I need to in achieving my returns?"

Had IT7 simply given me his spreadsheet, I would never have really benefited from the purpose of it, which is to be aware of the purpose of keeping the records in the first place. So, I will give you the same advice and answer that he gave me: I will be happy to help you in any way I can, but you will actually benefit if you create your own. Then you own it; then you can make changes to it, you can add what you want, and remove what you want. You will come up with good ideas that I have not had, and you will be able to implement it. None of that is possible if I share mine. But anything you need, just send me a PM and I'll be happy to help you with it.

So, I thank IT7 for "teaching a man how to fish" instead of simply feeding me what I wanted, and I guarantee you will feel the same way. For the record, I was not an excel guru, but I have become very capable in the last month at it. All you need to be found is on google, and this is a web site I found where I based most of my stuff on. You can download his sample and use the ideas. It seems like a lot at first, but give it a couple of weeks of steady work and it will be very nice:

Excel Dynamic Named Ranges = Never Manually Updating Your Charts | Gilligan on Data by Tim Wilson

.

Hey Josh,

Very cool, thank you !

Ryan

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #465 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,094 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,558 given, 98,593 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
Pardon my english ignorance but what does having a cow mean? At first, i thought a cow had eaten your internet cable but i am sure it means something else

It means freaking out, or going crazy about something.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #466 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


josh View Post
Way to get back on the train. One lesson I suppose is, don't listen to the opinions of others I never put any weight on what anyone else says about a trade idea, whether it's agreeing or disagreeing with my own. I was very wrong about a long being too late here, but I certainly didn't short it there, thus my being wrong didn't cost me a dime; I was a bit surprised when you shorted. At least I expected a bit of rotation and chop, but it just kept going. The important thing is that you don't try to fight it, and got out of your short. Reversing to long was a nice bonus.

By the way IT, I wanted to thank you for inspiring me with your nice spreadsheet stats to create my own robust sheet. Since I started tracking things this way in late June I have had very good results, and I attribute much of that to your insistence that I create my own spreadsheet, which I did and have learned so much in the process. True what you say about being right -- as these stats show, I am only 40% right, but have a 17% return with a -6.8% drawdown since late June. Knowing objectively how I'm doing, with a focus on risk, has been a huge part of keeping me focused on not just the raw P/L, which is really only a small part of how we are actually doing.

I strongly recommend anyone who's struggling to create your own spreadsheet to monitor your risk-adjusted performance!!! IT7 motivated me to do this, and I hope you take his lead and do it as I have done.


Excellent work my man! It shows a lot about you that you had the dedication and took the time to put it together, and it's paying off for you. This really makes me happy to hear.

Good looking spreadsheet. Looks like you've really tightened up your losses as of late, well done.

Keep up the great work.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #467 (permalink)
 futuretrader 
Como Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, customized
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 526 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 471 given, 642 received

@josh, nice looking charts, and thanks for that Excel link.

Do you guys have anything set up for analyzing scales? NT unfortunately doesn't export that data directly.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #468 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


futuretrader View Post
Do you guys have anything set up for analyzing scales? NT unfortunately doesn't export that data directly.

This is something I have considered adding to my stats but have just not done it yet. I do not do an NT export, as I typically have fewer than 5 or 6 trades on average per day, and I only care about the risk, drawdown, profit, time in the trade, max size during the trade, and time of day the trade is taken (and not even using those last two data points at this moment). NT sometimes does not calculate some of this the way I would like it to so it's easier for me to take the 1 minute per trade to enter it, and then I can have an intraday up-to-date picture instead of having to do an export.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #469 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


futuretrader View Post

Do you guys have anything set up for analyzing scales? NT unfortunately doesn't export that data directly.

Analyzing scales? Could you be more specific with what you're trying to accomplish?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #470 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

First entry today was on the first pullback after the breakout. Got a bit lucky on the great timing, as I went in "blind" (without much confirmation of a continuation starting).


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #471 (permalink)
 futuretrader 
Como Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, customized
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 526 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 471 given, 642 received


josh View Post
This is something I have considered adding to my stats but have just not done it yet. I do not do an NT export, as I typically have fewer than 5 or 6 trades on average per day, and I only care about the risk, drawdown, profit, time in the trade, max size during the trade, and time of day the trade is taken (and not even using those last two data points at this moment). NT sometimes does not calculate some of this the way I would like it to so it's easier for me to take the 1 minute per trade to enter it, and then I can have an intraday up-to-date picture instead of having to do an export.

I've been working on automating the stats I want via gomi's NT trade database framework, but haven't got the glitches worked out. But you're right, if you're not doing dozens of trades per day it's probably easier to just do it manually, except that scales would complicate things.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #472 (permalink)
 futuretrader 
Como Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, customized
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 526 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 471 given, 642 received


indextrader7 View Post
Analyzing scales? Could you be more specific with what you're trying to accomplish?

Sure. I tend to be very skittish on my scales, and would like to have hard data on efficiency for each exit (both in terms of giving back and leaving subsequent moves on the table), vs what my early exits may save me on other occasions.

Here are my two trades today, you can see I was out early both on the scales and on the whole.


Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to futuretrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #473 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


futuretrader View Post
Sure. I tend to be very skittish on my scales, and would like to have hard data on efficiency for each exit (both in terms of giving back and leaving subsequent moves on the table), vs what my early exits may save me on other occasions.

You can run data data data on this, and won't find the answer. The markets change throughout the months/years. It really comes down to (for me) scaling out of a trade is a psychological win, and the better my psyche... you know the rest.

If you're trading half as good as you did today, you don't have much to worry about!

If you're wondering what I do for my stats with scaling... I use a excel VBA code to consolidate my scaled trades into one trade for stats, I no longer keep up with "what if", "should have", and "could have" with my trades (unless I see flawed analysis in hindsight, but that's a different story). The point is that I don't question scaling out and wonder how I could have done better, because one time it will be better, one time it will be worse, etc. OH ONE THING TO NOTE, IF THE MARKET IS IN A RANGE, THEN I DON'T SCALE OUT, I TAKE IT ALL OFF AT THE RANGE LIMITS. (Continue previous thought): I used to pour over that stuff. I had multiple partial exits based on ma crossover, MACD divergence, and a hard pip target. Constantly tweaking it. My years of going through all that over and over led me to the realization that there isn't much I can do other than look at levels that might provide fuel (orderflow) counter to my trade direction (support/resistance, trendlines, etc) so I usually take some profit there, and allow the rest to run until I don't want to be in the trade anymore for whatever reason.

The closer I get to automating things, the less and less successful I become. Just my experience. May not apply to you, as I don't know if I found a universal truth, or just a truth for my personality! Who knows.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #474 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,558 received


indextrader7 View Post
I use a excel VBA code to consolidate my scaled trades into one trade for stats

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but in NT under Account Performance -> Trades, you can select "Group trades by ATM strategy" and any scaling you did from flat to flat will be calculated into a single trade, and your entry price will be adjusted as will your exit price to give you one single "trade."


indextrader7 View Post
The closer I get to automating things, the less and less successful I become.

Ditto. Cheers and a good weekend to you.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #475 (permalink)
 rainbowchaser 
Fort Lauderdale, Florida. USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT
Broker: CQG
Trading: YM,CL
 
rainbowchaser's Avatar
 
Posts: 140 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 527 given, 63 received


indextrader7 View Post
I wouldn't say I follow that scalping strategy to the T. Some days I don't even scalp and trade larger swings, sometimes I do follow ytc scalper style(certainly have been as of late), sometimes I use a slightly different mean reversion style with keltner bands. Mainly what I do is trade price reactions to S/R levels, and pullbacks within a trend. Whatever the market is doing that day depends on what method I use to find entries.

How do you take and or identify a reversal with Keltner Bands ? is there any other indicator or tool that you use for a reversal with the keltners like a Stochastix ?
Regards.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #476 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


josh View Post
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but in NT under Account Performance -> Trades, you can select "Group trades by ATM strategy" and any scaling you did from flat to flat will be calculated into a single trade, and your entry price will be adjusted as will your exit price to give you one single "trade."



Ditto. Cheers and a good weekend to you.

With the NT group by ATM strategy, it doesn't work out well. I end up adjusting a position, or having to close out the ATM orders and enter seperate stops or take profits if they've gotten combined. Just too many ways for me to not be able to hit group by atm at the end of they day.

So it's a simple export from the executions tab, and I'm good to go.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #477 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


rainbowchaser View Post
How do you take and or identify a reversal with Keltner Bands ? is there any other indicator or tool that you use for a reversal with the keltners like a Stochastix ?
Regards.

Well first it depends on the market environment. Are we in a strong trend with shallow pullbacks, a weak but steady trend with deeper pullbacks, are we so over extended that I'm expecting a complex multi-leg pullback, range bound, etc.

Then I just look for a candle pattern usually (or a candle close showing strength in my anticipated direction).

So really it's just getting a feel for how price is moving in relation to those keltner bands/moving averages/bollinger bands/etc and having an edge from that intimate knowledge of the movement/rhythm.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #478 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Started out the session on the wrong side of the future price action, and even made a real bonehead trade when things weren't going my way, but took a minute and removed all bias so I could read what was happening, and scaled into a nice big winner to end the session.

Here's the video recap:
Screenr - indextrader7: 7-16 Recap

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #479 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

It's amazing to see the improvements I've made in my trading through the years...even since this thread was started in April. I went back through a lot of the older videos here and was really horrified at some of the trading. I know I'm negative a lot and mainly focus on what I did wrong most of the time. That's good... to a certain extent... so I just wanted to give myself a little pat on the back for continuing to sharpen and grow.

It's really neat to go back and look at my trading journals from years ago. I think I'm going to scan some entries and share with you guys. As always, the good and the bad, as well as the ugly. It helps to see it all... both me and you I hope.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #480 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Ok, I went through the first notebook of the six trading journals I've written. I scanned some of the pages that stood out to me as more significant learning points or interesting things. I'll share them with notes on the posts to follow.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #481 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

So much nostalgia when I see the cover of this journal. So much.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #482 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Here's the first journaled instance of "hope" in trading for me. Get in a bad position and begin to "hope" it will turn around for me instead of having a plan in place to know exactly what I'll do whatever happens.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #483 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

I just really like my attitude here after a bad trade. Look at entry on 11-25

FYI I forgot to mention this journal is starting in 2006.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #484 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Two things here. I'm beginning to ask myself to use some sort of buy trigger checklist to filter good trades. Also, we notice that I'm entering the arena of looking to trade stocks with massive spikes and whatnot, OTC.BB stocks and stuff. Not a good idea (for me).


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #485 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

No explanation necessary here. So much going on, really fun to look at now. I "feel really good" about a trade, nice. I'm beginning to develop affirmation statements to myself. And I come in with some outrageous performance expectations, then kind of correct myself.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #486 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Look at the bottom bullet. Starting to realize I need some type of system, some methodology created from myself. Also, nice to see the humility and acknowledgement of my lack of wisdom trading. Although, I don't think I even had a clue how much I really didn't know yet.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #487 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Absolutely hilarious opening line there. Yeah, seems like that would be nice.

First time I noticed I needed to begin to ANALYZE my past trades, not just focus on future trades.

I do not miss running screens for stocks. Whew...


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #488 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

I like the point towards the bottom where I am telling myself not to get caught up on other people's picks, definitely had to learn to trust my own judgement trading when there is SO much out there to lead us this way or that way.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #489 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #490 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Really interesting to me to see the beginning of some subconscious learning here. I didn't realize it would turn into my main way of learning. The human mind is so powerful in recognizing trends and patterns, I really don't' think we have to have a lot of conscious learning to exploit it.

Also discovering the need for me (my personality) to back out and let a trade happen once I'm in it. I really tend to overmanage them and look at smaller and smaller timeframes.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #491 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Telechart was pretty sweet. This was huge, to realize that I can see a trade on one timeframe and make a mistake of trying to trade that "bias" or signal on another timeframe... doesn't work.

I wonder how many "welcome to a new era in your trading" moments I've been through, and blown up an account right after it or at least done really bad.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #492 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

What a system! All that needs to happen is... trade with an existing trending market, find the support and resistance and trendlines, find a pattern, make sure the MACD is in the right condition, look at the recent series of moves in 3 different indicators and check for divergence in them, look at volume and patterns in it, then find the candlestick reversal pattern.

Probably make sure the moon is in a waning crescent too.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #493 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

So now I'm a market wizard and am calling "3 months of bear market" man, I must have been a child stock market prodigy.

haha, It's funny to see what I thought I knew when I was really green behind the ears.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #494 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Ahhh.... the onset of a string of losers. "this is hard as hell" I say. Yep, true.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #495 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Here I'm noting that I still have a big need for some type of methodology to work from, a plan to trade. Demanding that I start entering reasoning for trades or use some type of checklist. This was always a real struggle for me, not taking whim trades. Actually it still is to this day, I just do it much less often as I don't enjoy burning money.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #496 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #497 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

2-27-2007 My first real taste of a massive drop in the overall markets, and being fully loaded in positions when it happens. Learned how the rising/lowering tide lifts/lowers most boats. I was shell shocked to say the least. Immediately felt a need to scramble for some other method to profit in such conditions.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #498 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #499 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

The frustration during a volatile time continues. There was definitely a feeling that I had to FORCE the trades onto the market, standing aside was never an option. BUT IT ALWAYS IS. Especially when we're not equipped to deal with a situation. Then again, having the real money at stake, and the real emotions involved, was some good tuition for me. Hard to say.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #500 (permalink)
 indextrader7 
Birmingham, AL
 
 
Posts: 1,065 since Apr 2012

Remember how before I was saying, "yeah... let's find the huge spikes and trade those! big $$$ baby" Well, here's my reaction to giving that a whirl for a while.


Reply With Quote


futures io Trading Community Trading Journals > Short term TF trading


Last Updated on June 9, 2013


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing

NEW BlackBird Features + FOREX Support w/Jeremy Tang @ SharkIndicators

Elite only
 

Our 12-year anniversary w/ $$,$$$ prizes (check soon)

June
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada), info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts