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I think I am ready to go live!


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I think I am ready to go live!

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  #1 (permalink)
nepenthean
Phoenix (basically mexico city)
 
 
Posts: 15 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 6 received

I have not posted recently to this forum, but after much homework I think I may be ready to go live. I have been in sim mode for a 14 months after position trading for 3 months. For those 3 months I did well despite not really knowing what I was doing. I just happened to catch a PM breakout in the fall of 2010. I tripled my account in 2.5 months. Then I proceeded to lose most of my profits, on which I had to pay taxes!

I committed myself to no more trading until I could get consistent in sim mode on an intra-day basis. I remember constantly resetting the sim account button because I lost, lost, lost. Now I do not reset the simulator. It actually surprises me that I do not reset that thing! I am consistently profitable in sim mode, which makes me think I am ready for live trade.

I know raw emotion will be there of which sim mode is lacking at times--though I pressed myself to make it as real as possible, to me.

I am nervous. I feel a year's worth of arduous work is on the line. My plan is to start with a single contract until I get used to the emotion of live trading. This is my goal: To execute according to my written plan, both entries and exits.

Any suggestions from experienced players with respect to handling your sensibilities in live trade?

Thanks.

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  #3 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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nepenthean View Post
I...

I am nervous. I feel a year's worth of arduous work is on the line. My plan is to start with a single contract until I get used to the emotion of live trading. This is my goal: To execute according to my written plan, both entries and exits.

Any suggestions from experienced players with respect to handling your sensibilities in live trade?

Thanks.

did you sim 1 contract only?

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  #4 (permalink)
 ThatManFromTexas 
Houston,Tx
 
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I have seen so many new traders spend months developing and testing a plan ... going live... and as soon as the first trade goes against them... the plan goes right out the window and they promptly blow up their account.

I grew up in a military family. My father told me .... "Son, self discipline doesn't mean not being scared...it means being scared shitless and still do what you were trained to do."

It's easier said than done.

Good Luck!

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #5 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
desert CA
 
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Congrats on honing your skills via sim for that long a stretch. I've done "some" losses live, so I can tell you it's another set of skills of live money management and honoring stops and probably most important of all learning to take small live losses and be able to move on from there. Maybe have a daily and weekly live goal. And also a daily and weekly limit loss. Maybe a good initial goal would not be to bust a weekly gain.

Also, Futurestrader71 had a nice 2 hr webinar recently on risk and stop management if you haven't already seen it. I think it could be helpful to watch it before going live. Trading Webinars, Trading Videos - Big Mike Trading Forum
If you don't have elite membership. I would highly recommend you to do so in order to watch that webinar and others and a bunch of elite threads and webinars. Plus they have awesome elite indicators and methods such as Perry's method continuation. TMFT even has a few indicators posted in the elite downloads, hehe.
Good luck.

Also check out some of the journals here if you haven't done so. Some of them are on live, maybe.

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  #6 (permalink)
nepenthean
Phoenix (basically mexico city)
 
 
Posts: 15 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 6 received

Thanks all for the insight. Next week I will go for it.



cory View Post
did you sim 1 contract only?

I simulated 1, 2, 3, and 4 contracts. At times I did 5 and 6, but that is not realistic for me. It was more for fun and practicing taking on larger size when I was doing well.

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  #7 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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nepenthean View Post
Thanks all for the insight. Next week I will go for it.




I simulated 1, 2, 3, and 4 contracts. At times I did 5 and 6, but that is not realistic for me. It was more for fun and practicing taking on larger size when I was doing well.

stick with 1 contract only and see if you can be positive every week for 4 weeks straight.

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  #8 (permalink)
nepenthean
Phoenix (basically mexico city)
 
 
Posts: 15 since Oct 2010
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Cloudy View Post
Congrats on honing your skills via sim for that long a stretch. I've done "some" losses live, so I can tell you it's another set of skills of live money management and honoring stops and probably most important of all learning to take small live losses and be able to move on from there. Maybe have a daily and weekly live goal. And also a daily and weekly limit loss. Maybe a good initial goal would not be to bust a weekly gain.

Also, Futurestrader71 had a nice 2 hr webinar recently on risk and stop management if you haven't already seen it. I think it could be helpful to watch it before going live. Trading Webinars, Trading Videos - Big Mike Trading Forum
If you don't have elite membership. I would highly recommend you to do so in order to watch that webinar and others and a bunch of elite threads and webinars. Plus they have awesome elite indicators and methods such as Perry's method continuation. TMFT even has a few indicators posted in the elite downloads, hehe.
Good luck.

Also check out some of the journals here if you haven't done so. Some of them are on live, maybe.

Thank you. I am going to watch the video. Since I do not really use indicators other than averages, maybe the elite membership is not for me?

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  #9 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
Point Roberts, WA, USA
 
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cory View Post
stick with 1 contract only and see if you can be positive every week for 4 weeks straight.

I think this is solid advice.
It's much different to trade 3 or 4 contracts and to be able to scale in and out than 1 contract.
With 1 you've gotta be right.

I would also suggest you limit the number of trades you make according to your system (not more than 3 and preferable just 1 trade a day). In this way you learn the patience to wait for the best setup. If you type out your set-up rules and go through them like a checklist before take-off, you'll know if you followed your plan.

..........
peace, love and joy to you
.........
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  #10 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
Austin, TX
 
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Understand now you get the emotional part of your education. Have to go live at some point. The emotional side of trading is what can be so brutal. But emotions can be mastered. Only way to learn to deal with them is to walk through the different highs and lows trading brings. If you enter this knowing it will be an emotional roller coaster will help you immensely.

So get ready to feel elated and at times very low. When it happens remember it is normal but must learn to filter out both. Eventually if you survive you will have ice cold blood and feel very little from trade to trade.

This is probably one of the hardest things you will ever do but is worth it.

Good luck.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #11 (permalink)
 Gary 
Near Dallas, Texas, US
 
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nepenthean View Post
Any suggestions from experienced players with respect to handling your sensibilities in live trade?
Thanks.

Good job on the work you have done thus far! This is a great place to learn and starting this thread is a good step in the right direction.

Like I said in my thread here on futures.io (formerly BMT) almost 3 years ago "You can SIM trade until you are blue in the face, but this will only get you so far. I believe pain is a great teacher, and until you experience the pain of losing real money, you're only half way there."

I still believe this to be true, but you also have to be open to what "pain" will teach you, and learn how to make progress toward not repeating the same mistakes over and over. The common ones like exiting a position too soon, taking a trade far after you should have already been in it, not learning to be patient and really perfect a few entries, learning to be okay with watching price run away if you never got your entry setup, etc. The list goes on and on.

I agree with @ liquidcci in that the emotional part of trading can be brutal. Prepare yourself to fully accept responsibility for anything that happens. You, and only you, are to blame. It is not your indicators, your internet connection, your wife and kids, your phone, your friends, etc.

Really focus on execution, forget P/L, only work on how well you executed your plan, and how it may differ from your SIM trading. From there, as many have said here, including @Big Mike, pick a particular weak spot, and work only on perfecting that area, and then move on to the next weak spot.

You should have a detailed journal with statistics tracking every trade setup, the ones you took, and the setups that came, but that you didn't take for some reason.

Fear, in my opinion is the number one reason traders lose money. Fear comes from lack of confidence, lack of confidence comes from a number of things including failure to plan things such as maximum daily loss, max loss per trade, how to tell whether you are "in the zone" or not, and so much more.

I would like to hear more about what you have done to prepare yourself psychologically speaking. This is tough, because I think so much of the learning comes only from doing it, experiencing it, and by it, I mean the emotions which comes along with trading cash vs. SIM. There is really no replacement for it.

As @ ThatManFromTexas said, we have all seen so many people who can SIM trade themselves to retirement, but switch to cash, have a few losses, and then completely change everything from chart, to indicators, etc. This makes no sense, as the failure was not with the system, but with themselves, or better, their failure to execute the system properly.

If you will, tell us more about what type of journal and statistics you have now, as well as what you have done to prepare for the psychological war you are about to enter.

Gary

As consistently profitable traders.. "We get paid to wait, and we wait to get paid."
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  #12 (permalink)
 Gary 
Near Dallas, Texas, US
 
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nepenthean View Post
Thank you. I am going to watch the video. Since I do not really use indicators other than averages, maybe the elite membership is not for me?

You've already got enough advice and seen the potential here with the amount of people who are willing to help you save yourself money and heartache, to more than pay for the membership.

But, no pressure.

As consistently profitable traders.. "We get paid to wait, and we wait to get paid."
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  #13 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: AMP, DT, TDA
Trading: CL,NQ,YM
 
Posts: 2,135 since Jul 2011
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nepenthean View Post
Thank you. I am going to watch the video. Since I do not really use indicators other than averages, maybe the elite membership is not for me?

There's much more than just indicators in the elite section. I don't want to sound like I'm just advertising for it, but if one is going to spend an extra $50 on trading education, the elite area is worth it several times over. You get access to all the webinars and everything on futures.io (formerly BMT). Perry's indicators are moving averages and actually more advanced ma indicators. If you see the webinar and thread you'll see what I mean. Plus you get access to Gomi's stuff if you want to see a free volume and market profile in action etc. A lot of FatTail's daily high low close level stuff is in elite along with a lot of his other work. If you like moving averages, there's a whole bunch of different type of MA's in the elite area. JMA's. hulls, etc. And it's fun to try out some stuff TMFT came up with lol. Anyways overall it's a paypal donation as a way of saying thanks to futures.io (formerly BMT), probably the best trading site for retail learners out there. But no pressure too. Have a good profitable live week.

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  #14 (permalink)
nepenthean
Phoenix (basically mexico city)
 
 
Posts: 15 since Oct 2010
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cory View Post
stick with 1 contract only and see if you can be positive every week for 4 weeks straight.

Thank you for your message.


Yes, I will stick with 1 contract for awhile and watch my emotions.

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  #15 (permalink)
nepenthean
Phoenix (basically mexico city)
 
 
Posts: 15 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 6 received


liquidcci View Post
Understand now you get the emotional part of your education. Have to go live at some point. The emotional side of trading is what can be so brutal. But emotions can be mastered. Only way to learn to deal with them is to walk through the different highs and lows trading brings. If you enter this knowing it will be an emotional roller coaster will help you immensely.

So get ready to feel elated and at times very low. When it happens remember it is normal but must learn to filter out both. Eventually if you survive you will have ice cold blood and feel very little from trade to trade.

This is probably one of the hardest things you will ever do but is worth it.

Good luck.

Thank you for your message.

I could sense immediately your words are born of experience. I benefited from your sig as well.

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  #16 (permalink)
nepenthean
Phoenix (basically mexico city)
 
 
Posts: 15 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 6 received


Gary View Post
Good job on the work you have done thus far! This is a great place to learn and starting this thread is a good step in the right direction.

Like I said in my thread here on futures.io (formerly BMT) almost 3 years ago "You can SIM trade until you are blue in the face, but this will only get you so far. I believe pain is a great teacher, and until you experience the pain of losing real money, you're only half way there."

I still believe this to be true, but you also have to be open to what "pain" will teach you, and learn how to make progress toward not repeating the same mistakes over and over. The common ones like exiting a position too soon, taking a trade far after you should have already been in it, not learning to be patient and really perfect a few entries, learning to be okay with watching price run away if you never got your entry setup, etc. The list goes on and on.

I agree with @ liquidcci in that the emotional part of trading can be brutal. Prepare yourself to fully accept responsibility for anything that happens. You, and only you, are to blame. It is not your indicators, your internet connection, your wife and kids, your phone, your friends, etc.

Really focus on execution, forget P/L, only work on how well you executed your plan, and how it may differ from your SIM trading. From there, as many have said here, including @ Big Mike, pick a particular weak spot, and work only on perfecting that area, and then move on to the next weak spot.

You should have a detailed journal with statistics tracking every trade setup, the ones you took, and the setups that came, but that you didn't take for some reason.

Fear, in my opinion is the number one reason traders lose money. Fear comes from lack of confidence, lack of confidence comes from a number of things including failure to plan things such as maximum daily loss, max loss per trade, how to tell whether you are "in the zone" or not, and so much more.

I would like to hear more about what you have done to prepare yourself psychologically speaking. This is tough, because I think so much of the learning comes only from doing it, experiencing it, and by it, I mean the emotions which comes along with trading cash vs. SIM. There is really no replacement for it.

As @ ThatManFromTexas said, we have all seen so many people who can SIM trade themselves to retirement, but switch to cash, have a few losses, and then completely change everything from chart, to indicators, etc. This makes no sense, as the failure was not with the system, but with themselves, or better, their failure to execute the system properly.

If you will, tell us more about what type of journal and statistics you have now, as well as what you have done to prepare for the psychological war you are about to enter.

Gary


Thank you for your message.

I have been on an inner journey for 10 years. I have many thick notebooks full of my former mind's contents I purged while in 'sabbatical', if you will. I have fervently been watching my thoughts, reactions to them, their underpinning energy, and their derivation on an almost daily basis for those 10 years. So, having that contentious inner dialogue blathering about is nothing new to me. Self-deprecation owing to perceived failures is nothing new either.

I know trading will evoke more disturbing thoughts; however, an exercise I have been performing for years is to observe thoughts as if they are debris in a river passing along, with me on the shore, not TRYING to extricate myself from them--simply allowing them be/do whatever they wish, affording my thoughts the freedom I experience through its offering.

I realize we are engaged in a game of pursuit of gain while avoidance of loss. I realize it is a fantasy to have one without the other. All I can do is follow my plan and trust its framework will weather the crucible of live trade.

I have not compiled hard statistics of my entries. Perhaps I should as per your suggestion. Nevertheless, I do have a daily journal of my sim trades and thoughts for over a year. From that I have distilled my plan based on what has frequently worked in as many market conditions as I have been able to test in just as long a time.

Next week I begin a new chapter.

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 PowerBroker 
DetroitMIUSA
 
 
Posts: 193 since Feb 2012

Until you experience the feeling of clicking that mouse and then having your mouse hand start to shake violently out of control and your heart feeling like it is going to burst out of your chest you just don't know the feeling (good or bad) of trading IRM. At least that was my experience. I did lose some money out of my account capital and was smart enough to know that I was not ready and got right the hell out of there again. (been in x2 now).

I'd rather eat broken glass and wash it down with gasoline now than go back in there and lose any capital now. So it's mastery of the method before live trading. I have already experienced the psychology of it and know full well I can/might lose some trades. It's the cost of doing this business. PERIOD.

I'd say you'll want to be well capitalized to trade live because you will want to be able to handle a string of losses in a row and still have money to play at the tables. You dig? RM & MM are paramount. Trading is fairly easy RM & MM
is where the toughness comes into play.

If you are trading any more than 1 car on a 5k account YOU ARE OVER TRADING. 2% of 5k is not much room for error however it can be done with stellar RM & MM.


I wish you a prosperous live experience!!!

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 Big Mike 
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nepenthean View Post
Thank you for your message.

Don't forget to use the Thanks button!

Mike

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Don't forget to use the Thanks button!

Mike

Aman...Whats so hard about clicking thanks? I take the time to read someones entry & they take the time writting it.. BANG! DONE...Thank You.

Im hesitent sinse their so far & inbetween.

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 Big Mike 
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Congratulations on your journal!



In the spirit of our March Trading Journal contest, I am asking everyone to spend a few minutes and share their journaling experience.

A) What are the top five benefits you have seen as a result of regularly posting in this journal?

B) What are the top five problem areas you have identified as a result of regularly posting in this journal?

C) Were you initially reluctant to start this trading journal? If yes, why?

D) How do you feel, overall, about your journaling experience?

E) Would you recommend to others that they should also start a trading journal?

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate your posts, and I hope you have benefited from your journal. I also know that others will benefit as well, just by reading about your own experiences.

Enjoy your weekend,
Mike

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