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Curtis, The CandelMan


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Curtis, The CandelMan

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 CRM5096 
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Trading instrument Gold and YM
My Plan
trade 5m chart with 377volume chart
entries based on 377 volume chart and BK Holy Grail indicator

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 CRM5096 
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2/22/2012 trade gold , entry based on 5/20 ema and 377 volume BK holy grail
2012-02-22_0811 - CurtisM64's library

Nothing so Impressive as Simplicity
D.G. Watts
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 CRM5096 
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watching 20m fork gold for support and resistance
use 5m chart and 555 volume chart for entries

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 CRM5096 
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the simplicity of a line , spotted this gold set up last nite The red line on my chart has been on there for weeks

line origin had to use 2day chart to get picture to fit


60m chart the set up short off line


60m chart



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 CRM5096 
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messin around this morning and missed a trade set up in gold


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 CRM5096 
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more information on this mornings gold set up

5m Kilroy Candel Pattern

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 CRM5096 
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20m fork line bounce YM this fork is months old


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 CRM5096 
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found this link on forum this is what i am going to do today is read through this thread and chew on it
im up to padge 11 from yesterday . I have a lot to apply


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 CRM5096 
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I was just reading a sample on my Kindle of Carl Futia's book The Art of Contrarian Trading, and in the preface or Chapter 1 (I can't remember which) he is trying to prepare the majority of traders that they will lose, and tell them that if they don't have an edge then they should not trade.

Anyway, in it he says that unlike the professional world, in trading a high IQ, substantial net worth, a greater education and lots of hard work will not make you a profitable trader.

I firmly believe the statement and have been saying similar things for a while myself. But, I think of critical importance is something he left out. That there is hope. The thing is, it is absolutely true that a high IQ, substantial net worth and greater education are not enough to give you an edge in trading. But what is also true is that you and only you are in complete and utter control of exactly what will give you an edge. Yourself.

It's been said many times. Trading is simple, not easy. In fact, trading is the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life. It's also the most rewarding.

Trading makes you be at your absolute best. Anything less, and you won't be successful. You've got to have your life in order, you've got to have your beliefs in order, and you've got to have confidence in yourself. All self-doubt and outside influence is left at the door. As it should be. Trading is about facing your inner most demons, and winning, quite possibly dramatically changing your own tendencies and behaviors in your life.

So it's easy to say that trading can and will in fact change your life. If you succeed. And you control your success. Not your boss, not your family, not the market. You.

It's easy to find excuses on why you had a bad day or bad week. None of them matter. The market doesn't give a shit about your excuses folks! The market is only about the now. It is what it is, nothing more and nothing less. The market is never wrong.

I know many of you are part-time traders and are hoping to one day be full-time traders. You might want to check out this other thread, btw, where I was hoping to discuss that in more detail. It's fine to be part-time. In fact, in many cases, it's more than fine. It's prudent. But what I've seen over and over, and what you must be careful of, is approaching trading as a hobby. For me, treating trading like a hobby is basically treating it like a trip to Vegas. You win some, you lose some, all that matters was you had fun, right? Yes. In Vegas that is what matters. In trading, your a fool if that is what matters.

So even if you are trading on the side, you still must treat it with all the respect it demands and in fact it deserves. Even if you are filthy rich and don't care so much about losing money trading, please just stop and give that money to homeless people who need it far more than you apparently do. Don't carelessly trade as a hobby, for the fun of it. Don't do it.

Now on the other side of the fence, there are a lot of you that are trading and trying with every fiber of your being to do it the best you can. And you are still losing your ass. Some of you have blown up once or twice already. Some of you are lost. Some of you are begging for it to turn around. Some of you don't know what to do next. It is to these people that I would like to say "get a grip!". You are in complete control of what happens next. You are in complete control of your trading performance. You do not depend on the market, you in fact depend on yourself. Once you've come to that realization, then everything else will start to make sense. Some of you madly trying new methods over and over and over, hoping something will work, hoping something will change, hoping something will improve. In doing so, you are completely overlooking what is most important: yourself.

If you are struggling, you've got to look within to find out why. I'm not talking about going to see a shrink and talk about your mommy, although it probably wouldn't hurt. You laugh, but really I am serious. To get deep down at why you are struggling with trading, you have to get deep down inside yourself, your thought process, your biggest fears and obstacles, your pre-programmed behavior and patterns in life. Like I said before, you've got to face your demons, and you've got to win.

What are some ways you can do this? Well, first, you've got to give yourself a fighting chance. You have to give yourself the opportunity to actually learn from what is happening. One way to do this is to slow the heck down. Eliminate the confusion. Create a brand new blank chart, from scratch, and only put two or three indicators on it. Then put a "freeze" on your chart and your workspace.

Promise yourself you will not change anything for the next two weeks. Yes, oh my, two whole weeks you will not change a single setting, a single color, nothing, so help you God.

Step two is to journal. Don't stick your tongue out at me, young man. You've got to journal! If you are old school then go grab an 8.5x11 notebook and on each page put today's date. On the left put the time, column two put the price, column three put your feelings. Record every single trade. Record why you entered, and why you exited. Don't make it fluffy and pretty. Record exactly what you are thinking. If you are thinking "I feel like it's going up" then you better write that down. If you are thinking "this can't go any higher" then you better write that down.

Come back after having done that for two weeks, and I assure you, you'll be a new man. A new trader. You'll have learned a great deal about yourself. For instance, if in two weeks your chart is different or if you skipped a day or two journaling, you'll have learned that you have no self control or discipline. If in two weeks you completely hate your chart, you'll have learned that what is on your chart doesn't make sense to you and you should then gradually (very gradually) make a change or two, and then freeze it for another two weeks. If in two weeks you look at your journal and see a bunch of patterns like "this can't go any lower" followed by a "got stopped - was wrong, it did go lower", then you'll have learned that you are not doing a good job of reading the chart.

Your journal should also contain what I like to call the "woulda/coulda/shoulda" entries. In real time, as they appear on your screen, you should write down any trade that you wish you had taken but you didn't. Do it in real time, like within a couple minutes of missing the entry. No cheating. Write down why you thought you should take it, and write down why you didn't take it. Example "I really think this double bottom is going to hold" followed by "but I've already taken two stops, so I am going to skip it". Come back and analyze all those woulda/coulda/shoulda trades after a couple weeks and look for patterns, you will be very surprised with what you find.

I'd love to hear from all of you. Am I right? Am I wrong? Are you following my advice? Are you trying these things? Have you been there, done that, and are now succeeding? Have you been there, done that, and are still struggling?

Mike

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 CRM5096 
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spent the day reading big Mike fourm and watching 20m fork and 4hr falling three candel pattern setting up




this is my definition of a falling three pattern , by my guidelines

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 CRM5096 
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Searchin' For a Rainbow - Marshall Tucker Greatest Hits - YouTube

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 CRM5096 
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had a real good day today trading gold I applied several things I have read from Mikes Thread
the main one is simplifying my approach to trading , Staying out of Chat rooms and staying focused on trading
saw gold setting up for a bounce early in the morning off what i call a pocket line



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 CRM5096 
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the first gold trade i made was a loser not only that i let a winner become a loser

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 CRM5096 
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reading forum today and studying , finding this community of fellow traders sharing their experiential wisdom has been most helpful to me. I am quickly filling in the gaps of my thinking towards the markets and learning more about myself as a journeyman Trader


"I hate it when I have an opinion because it has not served me well. Even if you want to call it a bias, it can cloud your decisions."

"If I strive to understand all you do about Patterns, Volume, Indicator's and Price Action....., until It makes my head hurt. I might not use them, but I don't understand what you are talking about, so I use them, and it does help me."



I find myself wanting to know why a Andrews fork works like it does. How can something drawn on a chart months ago still show up relevant to current price action . Why do I feel the need to know ?
Why don't I just bring into reality what I see on the chart

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 CRM5096 
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# 277
Why aren't you making money yet?

That is a question that I believe a lot of you are asking. You look around, and it seems every other thread or post has screen shots of trading performance reports where people are making hundreds or thousands of dollars per day, yet you are struggling to piece together even a single winning day or a single winning week.

Why aren't you making money yet?

I can tell you with complete confidence that you are in complete control of how much you make, or how much you lose. The people that are struggling the most are the people that refuse to do what needs to be done. They dismiss what is important and focus on what is unimportant.

I'll be specific. I see non-stop posts where traders are continually changing their methods, yet if you review their posts there is no indication in what they are saying that would lead them to be constantly changing things. What they choose to post or show you seems to be working. But it is in our nature to not want to be embarrassed, so naturally most people will only post their best performing days and skip over posting their bad ones. I think a good hint is not so much the performance report that people post, but their actions. Actions speak louder than words, right?

if a trader is constantly changing indicators and methods, those actions speak louder than (screenshots of winning days). Naturally, I can't say this with a complete blanket statement because it will not and does not apply to everyone. Some traders constantly change things out of boredom, but are still profitable traders day in and day out. Some change it as some sort of hobby. I can understand and relate to this, because for instance I have a weakness for automated strategies. They are fun for me. They represent the holy grail.

But when it's time to "get real", I return to what I know. And what I know is that automation fails, discretion rules. More than that, I know that consistency is king, so I keep a tight lid on change. I work extremely hard to blow off days where the trend was so strong that I never had an entry opportunity. I don't go adjusting my chart settings, that's for damn sure. I've been there, done that, and wasted a lot of valuable time chasing indicators and settings.

So why aren't you making money yet? When it seems everyone around you is? Well, first, lets get real. I don't think that the laws of trading simply go out the window here at futures.io (formerly BMT). The majority of traders fail whether or not they are members of futures.io (formerly BMT). I would like to think we are skewing the averages towards success because I'd like to think that my 2,000+ posts, and the 25,000+ posts of others, have helped people not make some common mistakes.

But still, why aren't you making money yet? The answer is simple, you aren't making money yet because you haven't respected trading enough for it to reward you. Yes, I know, it's tough to swallow. But the cold truth is that too many traders keep expecting the answers to tough problems will simply be given to them in the form of some magical indicator or chart, and they focus all their attention in the wrong areas.

They constantly look for that new edge in the form of some indicator they've not yet tried. They look for that edge in the form of some method that someone else has made money with.

But they never seem to look within. The biggest example of failure in this regard has to do with journaling. Based on my experience, the overwhelming majority of you do not keep trade journals. I'm talking about an account of why you entered a trade, why you exited, your feelings in both cases. I'm not talking about some statistical risk management report. I'm talking about a journal where you are open and honest with yourself about why you traded when you did, the direction you did, and why you exited where you did.

So many traders don't keep a journal because they feel they don't need to. I can't even count the number of times or ways I've tried to get traders to do it, and they still don't. Some people just don't want to be helped.

For me, trading is my life. It didn't always used to be this way, but it is now, and as such I take it extremely seriously. This isn't a hobby. This isn't a weekend in vegas or a gambling binge. Trading is everything to me. And it's everything to the people I support.

If you journal and you are still losing money, you don't have to look far to find out why. The journal is all telling. Either you are terrible at reading the market direction, you have poor execution, you exercise poor discretion, or you have bad money management. That about covers everything, and the journal will tell you exactly which one it is. It sure as hell isn't an indicator on your chart, and the sooner you realize it the better.

Don't get me entirely wrong. There are some traders who take it incredibly seriously, journal to no end, and have done battle with themselves in an attempt to conquer their inner demons and become a professional trader. Some of these traders still fail because they attempted to make trading their career when they were ill equipped to do so. The most common example would be a trader who is under-capitalized and tries to start earning a $100,000 a year income with a futures account balance of only $20k. Another example, especially these days, would be a trader who recently lost their job and thinks they can trade for a living instead.

What we have there are two scenarios where you are doomed to failure. Scenario one, under capitalization, is probably the most common. Don't you think it's a bit optimistic to expect a 500% return? Do you realize that if you consistently did even 20% return you could land a job at any firm you wanted? I'm not saying it isn't possible to turn 20k into 100k, but realistically "hell no". Your risk would be so far over extended and any lengthy drawn down term, at that risk level, would kill you.

The second scenario of unemployment which leads to day trading is a sad one. A good number of these people have families to support, and they are going to blow their account and lose everything. Trading when you aren't in a financial position to so is not trading at all, it's gambling. A good number of these types of traders have little to no experience. They think they can beat the odds, and they don't realize that almost any full time trader spent over $100k in "tuition" (blown accounts) to get there. Sure there are always exceptions, but it is not the norm, and you are not the exception my friend.

For the rest of you who journal, are well capitalized, and financially secure otherwise, the sky is the limit. You control your own destiny. It must be nice if you fit into this club, because the majority don't. The majority have to take huge risks and struggle, knowing full well what they are attempting is to defy all odds. Most try to trade without that financial safety net, without the proper account size, and they risk too much and are too dependent on immediate profitable returns.

Anyway... I digress If you haven't got sick after reading this post, then I hope you will start a journal and be open and honest about your trades, your account size, and your financial situation. If you can't handle the embarrassment of this then you almost certainly can't handle being humbled by the markets as a professional trader.

BTW, for those wondering about me -- I am a mixture of the two "bad" scenarios. I had a big bank account but lost my job. I have traded off/on for over 10 years now, but only in the last 2-3 years with futures, and blew out two accounts worth about 100k. I nearly lost everything before finally realizing I controlled my destiny and I stopped looking to indicators or automation to solve the problems with my trading. I have my family to support and have had great struggles, but I also know that I am in complete control of what happens next, and that knowledge and the faith in myself and what I have learned gives me the strength to keep going forward. The more I move forward, the better and stronger I become.

Mike

#278

"Either you are terrible at reading the market direction, you have poor execution, you exercise poor discretion, or you have bad money management.

" That about covers everything, and the journal will tell you exactly which one it is. It sure as hell isn't an indicator on your chart, and the sooner you realize it the better." ...BigMike

Excellent Big Mike.

The majority of new traders come to this business to "make money" and therein lies the problem.

Anyone who takes on any profession to make money will never be a professional.

The oldest profession in the world teaches us that.

The key is an intense desire to be a consistent trader in full control of our emotions and love our work.

Marty Schwartz who wrote Pit Bull spent 10 years as an analyst before taking a trade. Back in 1983 when I met a trader in LA he advised me to get a job as a broker and watch how people lose money. I did.

Always, always they trade to make money. They always end up losing. A few, a very few go on to study themselves, learn from errors, keep a journal and develop a simple edge. Why? Because they love the art of trading.

Today I am trading the same way as I did in 1986. I drew a 15 minute chart by hand for 4 years and used one indicator. I added one new tool in 1998 and another in 2003. I have examined dozens of indicators and systems and my former trading team traded them with millions of dollars. They made money because we traded 30 markets with 5 or more systems all extensively back tested. But for me I did not love this way of trading.

I retired from all that and took my own account and traded my own way with my favourite tools. I still do today. never to make money, always to gain the bliss of mastering the uncertainty that trading brings. As a result my account grows every month.

I do get help from my angel of trading though. That's because I listen!

Shivaya

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 CRM5096 
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I disagree. I went into this before in this thread, but basically I sum it up like so. If one single trade can make my daily nut, then it changes everything. If I can keep a runner on and come out with 120 or 150 ticks in a single trade, then I am done for the day and therefore my risk is now zero for the remainder of the day.

Let's say you analyze 1000 trades of your setup. It seems unlikely that the largest MFE will also be the largest percentage winner. What I mean is that if you were to classify trades in groups, say 15-25 ticks, 25-35 ticks, and 35-50 and 50+ ticks, it is not likely that more than 50% of those thousand trades you analyzed will fall in the 50+ tick category for MFE.

In fact, it's probably much more likely the majority of them will fall in the lowest category, in my example that would be the 15-25 tick category. You might choose to just go all in/out at 20 ticks then (the median) but unless you are willing to trade a great deal of contracts on one single trade, you'll have to do it more than once to meet your daily nut. And since adding contracts also causes a great deal of psychological impact, it's not something I want to do.

So, in my opinion, I would rather have a tiered approach and have gradual exits at high percentage areas, and also have the ability for one single trade to meet my daily nut by hitting say category 2, 3 and 4 all on one trade, so I can stop trading the rest of the day.

Some may say trading is a science, and you can apply pure math to it. I am not going to say that. Discretion is required, emotion is meaningful, psychological concerns have a direct impact. For me, I will trade 3 targets.

Mike

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 CRM5096 
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#345

the dancing girl test
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/right-brain-v-left-brain/story-e6frf7jo-1111114603615



Hi Mindset,

I think you started somethink interesting. Now question is how we can apply this to trading.
I am going to quote from this newspaper:


THE Right Brain vs Left Brain test ... do you see the dancer turning clockwise or anti-clockwise?
If clockwise, then you use more of the right side of the brain and vice versa.

Most of us would see the dancer turning anti-clockwise though you can try to focus and change the direction; see if you can do it.

LEFT BRAIN FUNCTIONS
uses logic
detail oriented
facts rule
words and language
present and past
math and science
can comprehend
knowing
acknowledges
order/pattern perception
knows object name
reality based
forms strategies
practical
safe

RIGHT BRAIN FUNCTIONS
uses feeling
"big picture" oriented
imagination rules
symbols and images


I think that "right brained traders" will respond better to colors,waves,interesting pictures.Imagination is the key. Money management can be the problem. Anything with numbers does not fit. Good picture makes the difference. They will like charts. They cannot trade by numbers because its against their nature. They don't like to remember numbers, but they can create ideas.

I am right brained and looks like close to 100%. The girl is turning right for me and I cannot see it other way. My interests confirm this idea.
ITs good idea try to find out what is the best way for me to trade.

Maybe this can help new traders to get on right pass from the beginning. This can be the key. To go against own nature can be a loosing game from beginning.

If other people add to this we can figure it out what type of trading is suitable for each type of person.

thanks
peter88

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 CRM5096 
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that dancing girl test is interesting if i look directly at her she goes clock wise , if i look outside the screen keeping dancer in my perifual vision she goes counter clockwise , its a trick on the brain caused by shadows to me

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 CRM5096 
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# 362




You guys know how much I love the futures.io (formerly BMT) CollectiveMA and the futures.io (formerly BMT) Envelope Expansion Fib Bands. I think they are great tools.

But, I also think they are not necessary to be successful. In fact, I don't think any indicator is necessary to be successful.

In the last few weeks as I've moved to MultiCharts, I've had to reprogram some of my favorite indicators like CMA and the bands. In doing so, or I should say perhaps before doing so, I was getting used to MultiCharts and playing with setups and charting without any of my tools.

What I found was that I still had a keen "sense" of the market, even without the CMA, even without the bands. I could almost instinctively "see" where the CMA and bands were, wrapped around price and interacting with price.

I've since gone on and developed both in EasyLanguage and I'll be sure to share them out to the Elite group for any TradeStation or MultiCharts users. I still think they are great tools, but the point of my (rambling) story is that if you ever feel as though you are dependent on a particular setup or indicator, then I think you are probably not yet to a level where you are a profitable trader.

Some say that an edge is required to be profitable, and they define that edge by using indicators. Not just methods, but indicators. While no one will dispute that you need an edge to be profitable, I do dispute that you need indicators to have an edge. It is my sincere belief that the edge is YOU. The edge is your experience on reading the markets, your experience of knowing when and when not to trade, your experience of knowing how to minimize risk and maximize gain, your experience to have trade management, risk management, and money management.

I can think back a few years ago when I was reading Elite Trader and seeing some people keep posting stuff that didn't make much sense to me. They were posting about "concepts" like price action setups, risk management, money management. I couldn't be bothered with them. No, I was on a search for the holy grail and was looking non-stop for the best tools I could find or learn to develop on my own in order to reach the grail.

It is only with years of experience doing this an exhausting 80 hours a week that I've learned that while indicators are pretty and even useful, they are not required nor do they define your edge.

I may use an indicator to help me time an entry, but I don't take every entry nor do I even think for a moment that I should. The last few days I've even taken off my pivots and daily high/low indicators, because with MultiCharts I am much better able to see the bigger picture (the charting is better to do this, for me) so I found I didn't need them and they were just cluttering my screen.

For those brave souls who have read this far into my post --- my point is this: if you are not making money today then you MUST, absolutely MUST start focusing on the psychology of trading, the risk and money management, and you MUST and I mean MUST stop focusing on indicators, changing your charts every day, and you MUST and this is a critical MUST be patient and know that trading is to be treated as a business, and it will take years of losses before the business starts to turn a profit.

I have many friends in the forum that are struggling with this, constantly changing their charts and they never pause long enough to really focus on themselves, nor focus on their actual trading. All they focus on is indicators! Many traders want better and better data feeds, faster and faster execution, more sophisticated tools -- and they think that "if I had these, I can finally make money!" when in fact it isn't required. Look at how much money you've lost up to now without these things. If it was that easy to lose the money, it is that easy to make it. You just have to conquer your inner demons, get a handle on the psychology and fear of trading, and focus on adding to your experience slowly but surely while all the while setting reasonable goals and measuring yourself against them on a non-stop basis so you can improve and refine along the way.

Mike

#363
Excellent post Mike . I spent probably 90% of the time I devoted to learning the nuts and bolts of trading on indicator / oscillator research . After 3 years I was exactly where I began - confused and blaming indicators and I bet most people have similar experiences . The only consistent results I achieved either sim or live came after I was able to admit to myself that my attitude and stubborness kept me from profitting so indicators cant help me address and deal with those things , only I can .

#365

Cory - Exactly. And our brains trick us by seeing the ones that hit the lines and filtering out the ones that don't.

Ever get a new car and then notice that everyone has the same car? I remember I got a honda accord in '98 and all of a sudden everyone had one. I saw them everywhere. We all must have bought them at the same time!

No. they were always there. i just never paid attention.

and this is how it is with indicators & lines. we see when they work and don't take into account all the false alerts. I've found this out myself while working on a new indicator. so now I use it not to give entry signals but just to tell me what's going on. for example, I don't want a dot saying "professionals active enter here" I just want to know "professionals active start looking for your own entry setup". This is the key to using indicators in my opinion. and this is why i never succeeded in automating anything using indicators. it's not black or white.

Great post Mike. Just one part I'm not sure about and it's the psychology and I wonder if that's because I have the psychology down and it's no longer an issue. I wonder if psychology is really that important. It seems simple really.

find an edge
trade it
repeat

position sizing is easy too. 1 contract on sim until profitable, 1 contract real money, and then increase slowly risking no more than 2% of the account

I considered getting the psychology books but I ask myself "do I really need them"? If one can make money every day, follow the trading plan, what else is there?

so psychology is the unknown. And I look forward to more discussion on that.

# 371
If I have no edge, psychology doesn't matter. If I don't have the psychology, the edge doesn't matter. To be profitable I need both, but I think having an edge builds the confidence needed to execute the edge effectively and consistently. For me having a clearly identifiable edge is primary. That means I can eyeball it without having to mine tons of data on a spreadsheet to see it.

#372
Let's talk about focus, energy, discipline, experience, humility, financial security, and motivation.

Today I've started reading a new book, "Evidence Based Technical Analysis" by David Aronson.



I really like what I am seeing so far. The author tests over 6,000 indicator combinations with the purpose of determining if any of them have predictive qualities. He uses 30 years of market data. The result is that none of them do. But that isn't spoiling the book, the book itself is the journey and testing methodologies themselves and that is what I find fascinating.

One thing occurred to me as I was reading the early chapters of this book. I've been preaching about how psychology and money management are what control your profitability, and how indicators are not the answer.

Perhaps I need to reshape that a bit and apply more focus to this: your goal as a trader is to beat other traders. Nothing more, nothing less.

Really, truly, that is what it comes down to. In order for you to "win" trading, someone else has to lose. When an indicator tells you to take a position, or you look for market bias and trends, gap plays, breakouts, etc -- all of these things are inconsequential in the big picture. You may analyze, as David did, 30 years of historical data and find that one particular occurrence or setup happens during the current conditions and play that setup as an edge, but at the end of the day your balance sheet will reflect whether or not you beat other traders, or if they beat you.

Everyone has heard "buy low, sell high" or if that doesn't work "buy high, sell higher". Everyone has heard "cut your losers, let your winners run". I really think you could delete everything except these two statements, remove all indicators and methods, and just by following this advice you have the tools to be a successful trader. In order to beat the pack, all you need to do is make better decisions than the majority of the other players on the field.

"Is that all? Gee so simple!", I hear you saying... I didn't say it was easy, but it is simple.

The point I am trying to make is that in order to trade better than the rest you have to make smarter decisions than the rest. And I don't think those decisions are benefited by any value an indicator, oscillator, gap play or method. The decisions are all within you. You have to be at the top of your game in terms of focus, energy, discipline, experience, humility, financial security, and motivation. In each of these areas you must outperform or best your fellow traders.

The countless hours (hundreds or thousands of hours) that people spend on indicators would be better spent on practicing or bolstering your focus, energy, discipline, experience, humility, financial security and motivation. For example, if each day you are spending 4 hours a day on backtesting and you do it six days a week, perhaps you could take those six days focus on one of the above items instead, rotating them in and out on a daily basis.

It may sound odd, but I think the time is well spent.

Mike

# 377

The Edge
I love it when I read confirmation that backtesting indicators has proven fruitless.

At the heart of every programmer who gets introduced to trading he believes he can program a consistent edge. They will all be singing "Still haven't found what I'm looking for in another 20 years."

Then there are those who sell indicators at all prices. Educators and chat roomers. All doing the same. Looking for risk free income. Sign up to get the latest whiz bang indicator.

My brother wanted to learn how to trade. He pestered me for 2 years. I gave in and set him up with a simulated account. After a month he was ready to go 'live' real money. I said 'No Way'. He refused to listen. He blew two accounts and $50,000.

It was painful to watch. Finally I AGAIN said, 'Screen Time and Go Sim till you have a profit factor above 2.0 on over 1,000 trades'. He blew sim account after sim account. Then finally he turned a corner. Now he makes $800 to $1000 a week. It's taken him 3 years. His profit factor is not yet above 2.0 but it is above 1.0. Whew!

The edge I use speaks from the still small voice within. No, correction, screams at me, 'Buy this baby, she's going Up!' I just click and click and click till I have enough size and then sit back and watch. I've done it thousands of times.

I never think during trading about anything except executing orders correctly.

I am busy all day listening for the still small voice that screams...BUY...SELL!

That's my edge. Go program that!

Gotta love it!

Om Tat Sat

Shivaya

Nothing so Impressive as Simplicity
D.G. Watts
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 CRM5096 
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# 409



Trading is simple, not easy.

All the price action in the world, all the indicators in the world, all the money management and technical analysis in the world is great.... but at the end of the day, what you are really doing is just trying to trade better than everyone around you. You have to out-trade the crowd in order to make money.

The saying is that 5% of the traders make 95% of the money (or so). In order to join the 5% crowd, you've got to trade smarter than your peers. It is "simple", because most peers are full of psychological and disciplinary problems -- they make inconsistent decisions and don't follow their own advice or their own trading plans. The "hard" part is for you to not fall into the same ditch.

The reason that learning price action is a powerful tool, and what I believe a strong step in the right direction, is because it can be done without indicators. And indicators are the devil. You would be far better off to have none than to have five or ten. Price Action is the closest thing to the "holy grail", because it is the most basic, the most pure form of analyzing the market. You guys have no idea how many private messages and skype messages I get daily begging me for indicators. Indicators, indicators, indicators! They see a new indicator on my screen and think "Shiny!!! If I had this, I could make money!!". Indicators can be useful, but they cannot make you profitable. If you aren't already profitable then please... PLEASE... just delete the indicators until you are!

Many traders feel they cannot be trusted to trade discretionarily after suffering huge losses. They look for some black and white answer in trading, "go long here", "go short here" and no such thing exists. They would be far better off refocusing that energy into learning how to re-condition their thought process and their minds to be better traders. Trading is a very intense process, it brings out a lot of emotions, it brings out the "fight or flight" response, it basically amplifies all the things wrong in your life until they are so pronounced, so unbearable that either you run away or you face your deepest fears and overcome them.

It may sound like hogwash, and you may laugh, but I believe in what I am saying and I've got experiences to back up my beliefs. Perhaps trading is different for every individual, because every trader has a unique set of challenges to overcome, and in doing so they learn to trade differently, being molded by these challenges like water flowing around a boulder. They adapt.

For me, I literally had to become a different person in order to succeed at trading. I had to curtail my impulsiveness, I had to learn to state my beliefs only when I had substance and factual evidence to back them up, and most of all I had to admit that I was wrong. That last part is key. Every few months I thought "oh, I've had a breakthrough... now there is no stopping me! Now I can make money!!". Wrong again. It wasn't that there were no breakthroughs, because in fact there were many. It's just that no single breakthrough was enough to make me into a successful



trader. It took many, many breakthroughs and many, many admissions of being wrong.

There are no short cuts in life. There sure as hell aren't any in trading. I know some "traders" who are making huge profits but they are doing so in a way that cannot be consistently maintained. They are averaging down. They are taking huge risks. They have no money management. They have no exit strategy. They never define a "I'm wrong if xyz happens" scenario, because they never plan to be wrong! These traders may come around every now and then and make a lot of noise with their big gains, but they will be gone soon enough. Stupid people can get lucky, too. But to be in the 5% of successful traders, you can't be stupid, and "traders" who trade with poor risk management, no money management, and no exit plan are quite stupid. The market will humble them eventually.

Yet still, even after I write long posts like this, and hundreds more, people still believe that indicators will solve their problems. If I have one mission, one clear objective with futures.io (formerly BMT) other than empowering traders to help each other, it is to try to reshape peoples energy away from indicators and instead focus that energy into proper risk/trade/money management and into overcoming the psychological challenges of trading. If only they spent as much time in these areas as they do playing with indicators...

Mike

Nothing so Impressive as Simplicity
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 CRM5096 
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# 488


rassi
Mike I totally agree with your above post, but the point I was trying to make was that surely the guy knows mindset and all yet isn't doing well so there are many contributing factors to note to being successful?

Also in relation to your own trading, how discretionary are you? How fixed is your rule set, do you have to have 4 out of 5 boxes ticked to take a trade? Do you have a minimum R:R requirement to take a trade? Do you have daily targets and draw down limits? Do quit when you hit these? Do you anticipate the type of day ahead of time? I could go on all day many things to consider and each differs person to person and method to method...

I agree with you, rassi.

I only trade discretionary setups, I have no automation. Within my pre-defined method and plan, I have clear concepts of when to put on trades and when to exit them.

I am always evolving and hopefully doing so in a positive manner You can just read the first few posts of this thread to even see how my method has continued to evolve. I am more and more and more focused on price action solely, trading completely naked without indicators, and just focusing on what price is telling me, and pairing that with good money management and experience.

There is no hard fast rule of when to place or exit a trade. I just have concepts which are based on price action patterns. I prefer to follow trends and buy breakouts and sell breakdowns.

I don't use a calculator and say that this trade is 0.8:1 or 1.5:1 risk/reward. But, I do have a max risk, and if the max risk is not sufficient to properly place my stop, I don't trade that setup. I always aim for a big pay off. I position myself to reap rewards. By scaling out, I take some quick winners to help build my confidence and play to some psychological needs, and then I position other targets to reap maximum rewards. The targets are all based on pre-defined support/resistance areas. I know my targets before I ever enter the trade, and they are never a static amount.

I may take some trades that have a lower than 1:1 R/R, but I don't do so intentionally. They may just be something like 0.8:1 and I didn't judge it quite right. When you place a trade, you have no way of knowing if this trade is going to hit your target or not. Even if it does hit your target, you have no way of knowing if it will then blow through that support/resistance area and then continue running to the next level. All you can do is make smart decisions and position yourself to reap maximum rewards.

I do have daily targets. I've got a lot of other stuff I work on each day (forum, for instance), so I find that having a pre-defined target helps me trade to a goal, then stop. The goal is always evolving. The goal also does not have to be based on profit and loss, it can be based on how well I am trading, or how well the market is moving.

I don't anticipate the type of day. I do, in general, find Wednesday's to be some of the best days because of the increased volatility usually present due to the inventory reports (oil). Other than that, I trade what I see. I mark trendlines on bigger time frames and take note of key s/r areas. I then just focus on 'what-if' scenarios. If the market does abc, then I will do xyz. If the market instead does abc2, then I will do xyz2. I don't care which one the market does, and I have no interest in trading in the middle. I'm waiting for someone big to move the market, and I then hop on and ride the move. I don't want to be in the middle and try to do the moving. This method works with trend following.

Many people want me to say:
- Here is my magical indicator that says when to go long and short.
- Here is my stop and target amount.
- Here is why I entered the position.
- Here is why I exited the position.
- Here is when to trade.
- Here is when not to trade.
- Here is what your daily goal should be.
- Here is what your daily stop loss limit should be.

These answers don't exist in this way. And if you (not talking to you rassi, but everyone) are still searching for answers to these questions then I think you need a wake-up call because I personally believe you are on the wrong path.

Mike

Nothing so Impressive as Simplicity
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 CRM5096 
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#499


Well I appreciate your thorough responses. At least I understand better what you are trying to do, now. I can't help but think: If Mark Douglas wrote a book promoting ineffectual approaches he used to try before learning better psychological methods, I would not buy that book. I can be ineffectual without any help But I see where you are coming from.

Regarding copying people, I'll also say that, to give an example: I didn't read Al Brooks to try to be him, but I saw benefits from reading his perspective on how he makes his money. So, while copying someone else's method may not be the answer, learning about the methods of successful people has had value to me personally. And again, to be useful to me, he has to tell me what he thinks works. Or, if he wants to tell me about his past mistakes, he needs to present them to me as such.

I see from your responses here, though, that you write about approaches you find useful as well... just apparently scattered around the site and mostly behind your pay-wall. As a casual user who does not spend the time needed to piece together all of the bread-crumbs, I didn't know that. And, I'm glad! I do think it's very inspirational for people to see that success is possible. It's a powerful way to help them shape their beliefs moreso than a way to prove anything to them about yourself.

Thanks again
Richard

aztrader9
I'm still working on finalizing my charts. I am close....will probably finish this weekend and then my next project is finalizing a written trading plan.

Regardless of what your chart looks like (you and only you can decide what you like or want), I do encourage you to NOT CHANGE IT for a period of 2 weeks. At the end of each day over two weeks, ask yourself specifically "Does my trading chart work for what I am trying to accomplish?", as well as "what do I like best about my chart", and "what do I like least about my chart". Record the answers to each question on a daily basis for 10 trading days (2 weeks). At the end of the two week period, you are allowed to make two and only two changes to your chart. This means you can change an indicator for something else, or change a setting -- any two changes, and only two. Then you repeat the process again.

Mike

Nothing so Impressive as Simplicity
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 CRM5096 
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#501


Big Mike
I do show how I am doing it. I talk about my method and my setups daily. Don't get hung up on seeing a trade log.

The problem is anyone can talk about setups and talk the talk but very few can do it successfully real time (walk the walk). In my time I have been "suckered" by a lot of scammers posing as profitable traders.

An example, a trader posts his magic indicator which calls tops and bottoms. Shows examples all the time. I reverse engineer his indicator and find it does call tops and bottoms.. along with every little up and down in the market making it much less useful.

Another example trader posts his method and teaches people how to use it and when it doesn't work he says "well that's not what I'm really using I just try to make it easy for you".

Another example is a top trading guru who brags about how he really trades. I followed his system and my big loser didn't even show up on his track record.

Just yesterday I was investigating eminidaytrader.com. They have a great track record but when you google them you'll find their members got a ton of losers that weren't in the official track record. Puretick does the same and this seems to be the main way these "systems" scam people.

Those are just examples but the list goes on and on. So I'm going to completely disagree with what you write below.



Quoting
My objective is not to prove to anyone that I make money trading. If I made 1 million last year, does it magically change something retroactively with my posts? Do you now start paying more or less attention to my future posts? What if I lost 1 million last year, do you now throw in the trash my prior posts and block my future ones? Neither answer would make any sense. As I've said before, you can learn from someone that is losing money just like you can learn from someone who is making money. I would focus on de-emphasizing the two. Your not subscribing to "Big Mike's Trade Calling Service". And as I've said before, attempting to copy someone else's method isn't going to work.

I got scammed a year ago. I signed up for a trading program and a month into it I realized that the coach wasn't profitable (even on sim). He was hiding his losers. So I abandoned the program right after a month despite the fact that I had paid for 4. I could stomach losing the tuition money but I couldn't stomach losing another 3 months of my time.

I realized I hadn't done my homework. I paid a guy without any proof that he was a profitable trader. It was then that I told myself I wasn't going to give much credit to anyone who has not proved to me that they are a profitable trader. Doesn't mean I won't listen to them, we can still learn some things. But I will question everything they say and even be skeptical about it. I'm actually skeptical of profitable traders too but if a trader isn't profitable I will say I'm very skeptical.

Take Joe Ross. I have no proof he is profitable. He writes books, I learned some things, but does his Ross Hook work? Ross is wanting to sell me seminars and even told me to come to his house for personal 1 on 1 training (at a very high price). He says that he gives away all the secrets in his 1 on 1 coaching, secrets that aren't in his books.

now take l2st. After 1 month in his room I doubted he was profitable until he put his DOM up for 3 weeks in the trading room and showed me he can really trade. Now I have no doubts about him or his material.

Now who am I going to believe more? If I'm going to invest 40 hours studying someone, should I choose Joe Ross whom I have no proof is a profitable trader or Kam from L2ST whom I know without a doubt is a profitable trader?

Common sense tells me I can learn something from Joe but my time is better spent on Kam's material/method. If someone can give me an honest reason why I'd be better off studying Joe than Kam then I'm very interested. And "to learn what not to do from Joe" is not a good answer for me. I learn by example, by imitating successful people. Not by studying losers.

Now this is my point of view and everyone may not feel the same way. I'm skeptical outside of trading too. When I sense something is bullshit I call it bullshit. And a few times I've ended up being wrong but this has kept me out of trouble far more than it has caused me missed opportunities.

I'm profitable with my swing trading for 8 months now with a profit factor over 20. I have no problems showing someone my IB statement which shows every trade I took and the result. if that helps someone make a decision in their trading education process then I'm happy to help them. If it gives them more confidence in studying my trades or reading my journal, why wouldn't I share the statement? I got nothing to hide.

For my daytrading, that has been a challenge for me. I'm not yet a consistently profitable daytrader. I don't hide this either. I publish my P/L almost every day. I'm improving and this month will be my first month profitable on real money daytrading (as long as I don't screw it up next week!). And once I establish a few months of profitability I'll share the results. Others who read my journal or watch the real time trade videos on my blog will at least know that I'm not bullshitting them and that I'm not a scam. They may not find anything useful in my method, that's fine. But at least they will not have doubts.

When my wife & I were backpacking in Southeast Asia we stopped in Krabi Thailand. There was a diveshop there and being an avid diver I asked about the dives and they sold us a 2 dive day trip. It was the 3rd worst dive of my wife (worst was when I had to swim through a million jellyfish in Puerto Vallarta Mexico and the 2nd worst was when a big storm came during our dive in the Florida Keys). Visibility was terrible and there was a current and nothing to see!

So after the dive I talked to the divemasters for a while and then casually asked "where's the best diving in Thailand?" They told me "similan islands". So when we got back to the beach I told my wife "we're going to the similan islands". I didn't know where they were or anything about them, but that's where I wanted to be.

We ended up on a dive boat for 6 nights (it's far from the mainland) and we did 16 dives in 4 days. The islands were beautiful and while it wasn't the best diving of my life (Cayman & Maui are much better) it was 10,000x times better than our dives at Krabi.




While 'resting' after a dive I hiked up to the top of the island where I took this photo. We lived on the water in Paradise for 4 days.

Many chose to dive at Krabi. We chose to dive at the Similan Islands.



Quoting
A few weeks ago I mentioned how important psychology is in trading, and if I remember correctly you disagreed and said the method is more important than psychology (or at the least, you de-emphasized psychology, but I am tired and lazy and am not going to find the exact post right now).

And I see that my posts were in vain because you completely missed my point. I invite you to go back and read them.

I want to be perfectly clear about my post: I am not making any judgements about your trading or your profitability. All I'm saying is that for me, I will give more credibility to a trader whom I know is profitable than I do to a trader whom I do not know is profitable. You believe that profitability doesn't matter and that we can learn from unprofitable traders. I disagree. Sure I can learn something but I feel my time is better spent learning from profitable traders.

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 CRM5096 
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#515

Thanks George.

I hope others will chime in as well.

Here is another one... knowing what you know today, if you could change only ONE single thing about your past trading, for instance the one biggest thing that caused you the most pain or to lose the most money, or the one biggest thing that hindered your progress in becoming a consistently profitable trader, what would it be?

I'll go first.

First, it's hard to list just one. But I would have to say the one biggest thing that held me back or kept me down, or hurt the most -- however you want to phrase it -- would have to be... indicators.

If you didn't see that one coming, you haven't been paying attention!

There are so many things that I screwed up in the beginning, things that looking back are now so clear to be huge mistakes, but the one that 'cost' me the most would have to be indicators. It wasn't until I finally committed to myself to look past indicators that I became consistently profitable. This process started somewhere around nine months ago, but I continue to learn more and more each day (at a much faster rate than before) now that I've ditched indicators.

In the beginning, I kept creating indicator after indicator, tweaking old indicators, trying new ones, looking for patterns and combinations. I was barely paying attention to what price was doing. And we trade for price. We don't trade for cross overs, we don't trade for overbought or oversold, we don't even trade for volume. We. Trade. For. Price.

Once I finally focused all of my energy on just looking at price -- and believe me, it was a long hard process that I struggled with for a long time -- then everything, and I mean everything started falling into place. Everything started making so much more sense. In fact, it was now easier to trade.

Easier because I was trading based on something that actually had relevance, so any decisions I made based on price had a direct correlation with price! Before, I would make decisions based on some indicator being +/- 0, or rising or falling, or above/below price, or oversold or overbought, and there is no correlation with price and these things. You may disagree with me, but this is my opinion and my belief. Does a stochastic rise when price is moving up? Sure it does. But it also can move down when price moves up. Rinse, repeat for every indicator out there. If you don't believe me, fine. I wish you the best of luck using your indicators

The thing is, once I finally decided to study price and all the things that go along with it, I call it price action, I started to see instant feedback that actually made sense to me. All my hard work to generate a 'signal' based on price, in my head, was now paying off. There were no complications. There were no "why did that happen??". This is what I mean by saying it become easier. Before, I was just beating myself up because I would look at indicators and find signals, and I would wait for my rule which told me when I could or could not trade, and then I would get my ass handed to me if you sampled enough trades (say 100 or more).

Sure, many trades worked great. But overall, when I used indicators I lost more than I made. Many traders go through the same thing. They keep adding "filters", more indicators to help them filter out the bad signals from their other indicators. That want an indicator to tell them when not to trade in chop. They want an indicator to tell them it's too late to enter a position, or when to get out. Maybe you can find these tools and make them work for you. I could not.

You can come look in the price action thread to see how simple things can be if you focus on learning to read price. This involves trends, this involves "waves", this involves patterns. But I use the terms waves and patterns in a very general sense. I do not trade Fibonacci's, I do not trade Elliot Wave's, I do not trade 1-2-3's, I do not trade Head and Shoulders. I trade price.

All you have to do is just look back to this very thread and see the tail end of my journey in progress. In the very first posts, I was already streamlining and eliminating virtually all indicators from my charts. Now I have eliminated even more. I still have one or two, but I believe I would be better off without them. One day I will be, because now I know that I can break the mold. Now I know I can trade without them. They are no longer a crutch. My goal is to remove the final indicators soon.

Mike

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#547

Was catching up on some journal posts tonight, since I can't sleep (worst sinus headache ever, for days and days and days now)...

Anyway, something caught my eye. The number of posts that contained the words "missed trade".

I am guilty of this too. But I think we all have to stop using that kind of terminology or phrase "missed trade". I am talking about in the context of "I was at dinner, and I missed these three trades".

Let me clarify. If you are 100% ready to trade -- you are calm, focused, etc... and then something occurs such as fear, greed, or even if you are in a trade and instead of reversing you stay and get stopped --- these things are truly missed trades, provided that the "missed trade" meets your rules.

Now, let's go the other way. If you are eating, if you are in the bathroom, if you are asleep... and less obvious, such as if a big huge move happens but it really wasn't your setup... none of these are missed trades!.

The first ones are missed trades because they were your setup, and due to a mistake or misstep, you did not take it even though in practice you were supposed to.

The second ones are NOT missed trades because you have to eat, you have to use the bathroom, you have to sleep, and you cannot catch a move just because it is big. Even if one of these trades did match your trading plan, it is still not a missed trade!

I think the distinction is very, very important, especially on a psychological level. How many of you think that if you have a winning attitude, it will improve your success? How many of you think that if you are constantly beating yourself up or demeaning yourself that your performance will suffer because of it? The same thing is happening here. If you keep saying "missed trade" when the truth is, it isn't a missed trade, it just causes you harm.

Like I said, I'm guilty of this too, but now that I've written this post I'll try to be more observant. That is the beauty of posting, once you commit something to writing you are far more likely to remember it.

Mike

#551
Below is taken from Beth's thread. I copied it here because it is worth repeating.



wgreenie
I did another profitable Long when price broke DT. How can I simulate my real-trade emotion when doing sim ones? Or better still - how can I simulate my sim-trade emotion (so much calmer and fearless) when doing real ones?!!!

Beth (Let me think .. )

Hi Beth,

First congratulations on your first trade the other day

I see you've taken a couple since then.

The emotion and energy is going to be very different with cash vs. sim. This is the struggle. A very large number of people find it very easy to make money on sim, but when they go to cash they blow up.

There are a bunch of things you have to do, too many to list in one post, but here are a few off the top of my head:

- Treat sim like cash. No funny games. No 10 or 100 contract orders "just to see" what happens. Trade sim EXACTLY like you intend to trade cash. That means if you intend to trade cash with 1 or 2 contracts, you must do sim the exact same way.

- No resetting the sim account. If you blow up your sim account, it means you have a lot to learn. First, your sim balance should probably be only 10-20% of your cash balance. Ask yourself, how much of your cash balance would you blow/lose before you started "losing it" mentally. That's probably 10-20% for most people. Set your sim start balancing to the same level then, because if you lose that money then you need to find a new better strategy for sim trades before you go cash, otherwise once you do go cash if you are placed into a similar situation you will "lose it" mentally, which naturally is disastrous in the market.

- Trade sim like you trade cash. Same times of day. Same entry/exit methods. Same signals.

- Trade cash like you trade sim. Now this is harder. What do you do in sim after you have a loss? You need to do the same in a cash trade. What do you do in sim after you have a winner? You need to do the same in a cash trade.

The mind tries to minimize pain. I've read over and over and over again, and I've lived it, too, so I am a firm believer that your mind and body will "trick" you into doing things as a mechanism to end the pain. Let's say that you lay awake at night telling yourself you really, really, really want to be a successful trader. Your heart is in it. It means a lot to you. Now, during the day you keep losing more and more money. This can very easily be your mind coping with the sheer amount of stress of the situation. In your mind, the best way to end the stressful situation is to "get out", and the fastest way to get out is to blow your account so you stop trading, and the stress ends. There are countless other examples of this.

You specifically asked about trying to simulate emotions in sim like you would experience in cash. I think unfortunately you can't do this. But, with enough time and experience, you can treat cash like you treat sim. I hope that makes sense. It is the way I feel about it anyway. With enough experience taking those trades, and enough work, you can overcome your built-in reflexes and control them. You can be in a cash trade while still being in a calm and relaxed state. It takes a lot of experience in cash trades to master this, however. You can prepare before the trade, naturally, doing a bunch of mind and body techniques like meditation, hypnosis, all kinds of things. Even just simple stuff like working out and eating healthy and eliminating distractions around you. But the real experience comes from doing. The best way to re-wire your mind is by catching yourself in the act of something you want to change, and then willfully overcoming it and making the change happen.

Let me try to give some examples. Put a sticky note on your monitor that says "WHAT TO DO IN A CASH TRADE:" and list some things. Here are two that come to mind. #1: Ask yourself, are you calm and your heart rate normal? #2: Ask yourself, is your back touching the chair or are you leaned over?

By forcing yourself to ask questions, like if you are calm and heart rate normal, or if you are hunched over in your chair or not, you will force yourself to be aware of the answers and the state of things around you. That is step 1, awareness there is a problem. Then step 2 is to try to remove the anxiety that is causing you to do things you do not want to do. This takes a lot of work and practice. Breathing techniques are usually recommended to slow your heart rate and put you back into a calm state. I also find that simply taking my hand off the mouse, and forcing myself to plant my rear end as far back in the chair as it will go, and forcing myself to make by back touch the chair, that just by doing this I immediately relieve a lot of stress.

Gary also recently started a thread on biofeedback devices. I have a lot of interest in this because Dr. Brett talks about it a lot, and I think it is a great idea. The principle behind it would be that a simple machine is going to be able to tell you much faster than you may recognize by yourself, that you are not in the zone -- your anxious, not calm, elevated heart rate, sweaty palm, etc etc. Again, awareness is the first (required) step in the process of overcoming it. Unfortunately, it seems no one on futures.io (formerly BMT) has any good recommendations for biofeedback hardware. I am still looking around and I know Gary is too.

Mike


You learn the most from challenging situations. You learn the most from losing trades, and days. When it comes to trading, you have to remember that anyone can make money trading. You can invite the mailman in to your office, and tell him to place a trade. He can click the mouse, and find himself in a winning trade within minutes.

Experience is not required to have a good trade. Skill is not required to have a good trade. You can even string together a series of trades.

However, to truly be a "trader", implying your profession is trading, and thus implying that you have experience doing it -- you need consistency. You can learn the most from losing trades and losing days, because those are the experiences that stick with you. Think of it as building character. Now, the hard part is taking all these experiences and having them form a positive ultimate outcome.

You can examine 10 losing trades or 10 losing days and be in no better shape for doing so. You can be lost, frustrated, angry. You can place blame elsewhere. You can, in essence, learn nothing from the experience.

Or, you can examine 10 losing trades or 10 losing days, and benefit greatly from the experience. You can accept the responsibility of the trades. You can look at the situation analytically, and rationally. You can identify your own strengths and weaknesses. And then, ultimately, you can develop a plan to play to these strengths and minimize these weaknesses. That is a good, positive, learning experience.

Mike



#602


I usually trade 3 targets
All targets based purely on price action, just look to the left on the chart to know where to target
Stop based on price action, just look at chart, it will tell you where to place your stop. Stop is when you are wrong on a trade. It is not some preset limit "all you can afford", market doesn't care about that. You know ahead of time the maximum you can risk on a trade (ie: 1%, 2%), don't exceed this ever.
I usually go all-in. I usually scale out. It depends on the market and price action and volatility.
I very rarely move my stop to "breakeven" the way you are probably thinking. The market doesn't care about "breakeven". Your stop should be placed where you believe the trade has failed. I reduce my risk by scaling out of positions at key price zones based on price action.
Only experience can help you determine if it's a breakout or a fake out. I also don't care so much about if I am wrong or right about which one, it's more about what you do, how fast you recognize you were wrong, and your response to being wrong. That is how you make money, it isn't about being right.

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 CRM5096 
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# 662

Why do most traders find it so difficult for their winning days to be larger than their losing days?

Why does it seem like a losing trade can very quickly run to your stop loss limit, lets say 20 ticks, but yet it is so much harder for a winning trade to reach a profit target of 20 ticks?

The truth is: these are just your perceptions, and those perceptions eventually become reality in some way. It's a form of self-sabotage. Do any of you have friends or family members who are constantly negative about their life? Always complaining about something, and it seems like the amount of "bad things" that happens to them just keeps piling up and up and up, more and more. To a big extent, they are causing this own behavior within themselves. Self-sabotage.

It is similar in trading. The truth is, if you ignore commission costs for just a moment, it is no harder to have a winning trade than a losing trade. Yet most traders struggle so much to have their average winning trade exceed their average loser. This then makes them struggle to have their average winning day exceed their average losing day.

At some point in your trading you've probably experimented with a stop loss that is bigger than your profit target. In other words, you were willing to risk 20 ticks to make 10. While you may have had a higher win percentage, you probably soon discovered your losing days far exceeded your winning days. The strategy is not profitable for most traders.

Why is it so hard for most traders to imagine that they can just reverse this, making their profit targets larger than their stops? From my experience here on the forum and talking with hundreds of traders, I think the biggest problem can very easily be described as "trading with scared money". This has a lot of ramifications, but one of the biggest ones is that when a trade is profitable a lot of traders continually self-sabotage by taking the trade off too soon, not allowing it to hit the target. Another big one with scared money is most traders make stupid decisions about where to place their stops. They let their own fear and account size dictate the stop, which is stupid. It is absolutely true that you need to use prudent money and risk management. But, just because you can only afford to risk 15 ticks does not mean your stop should be 15 ticks, or more accurately, it doesn't mean a 15 tick stop will work or makes any sense whatsoever in the market. Most traders have no clue when it comes to this. They see a setup, they take it, even though some of those setups with proper risk management should have been skipped.

What can you do to break out of the cycle? A lot.
Step back. Instead of going smaller and smaller, 3 range, 133 tick, etc, you need to look at the bigger picture. By going smaller you think you are making trading more affordable. What you are really doing is trading noise, which is not really trading at all.
Make sound decisions. Your plan must include a way for your average winning trade and your average winning day to exceed the losing trades/days. If you cannot formulate a plan to do this, you haven't tried hard enough or lack proper experience.
Be accountable. Stop blaming your surroundings, your broker, platform, sleep, wife, kids, day job, news, the fed, etc. Own your trading. All of it. Top to bottom. If your internet is not reliable and you choose to trade, this is not the fault of the internet company. You must own every single trade. The outcome is solely and directly your responsibility in every way.
Measure yourself. 100% without question, your mind will project images and memories to you that are false. You will be tricked into remembering trades in a different light than how they actually occurred. If you don't wish to study psychology and how the brain works, you must at least accept it. You must record your trades as they happen while the truth of the trade is fresh. You must then measure yourself daily in such a way so you can account for your progress, or lack thereof.
Accept reality. If the reality of your situation is that you are trading to pay the bills, yet you are not a profitable trader, you need to accept the reality that this is a foolish decision. Many great traders failed several times before they became successful, but you must set yourself up for success - not failure. You cannot simply hope for it, you must make it happen and to do this you need a true fighting chance. This means you cannot throw risk management out the window, you cannot trade your mortgage money, etc.

The moral is this. Most traders make trading much more challenging than it needs to be by focusing all their energy into the wrong things. They have one excuse after another, yet at the end of the month they continue losing money. Don't make this mistake.

Mike

#663

How to change a pattern:
Step 1: Identify the problem.
Step 2: Create a very specific yet simple plan.
Step 3: Implement the plan consistently.
Step 4: Measure yourself, how well did you execute the plan.
Step 5: Make adjustments until the problem is solved.

Let's take two examples. First example:

Step 1: The problem is you want to stop drinking all soda. No more soda, ever.

Step 2: Your soda is stored in your fridge. You can't throw it out, other family members drink it. Instead, you will create a very big sticky note that goes on the front of your fridge: "I PROMISE TO MYSELF, I WILL NOT DRINK SODA". It is helpful to also remind yourself why.... "BECAUSE I WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT AND I KNOW SODA IS TERRIBLE FOR ME". It is also helpful to propose an alternative action... "I CAN HAVE WATER OR GREEN TEA INSTEAD"

Step 3: Each time you walk to the fridge you will see the note. You will be reminded as to why you want to stop drinking soda. You will be reminded of what you should be drinking instead.

Step 4: At the end of the day, how many sodas did you drink? If more than zero, your execution is not 100%.

Step 5: If your execution was not perfect, you must fine tune the plan. Lets say your weakness was during dinner, you really craved a soda and you broke down and had "just one". You need to alter your plan to prevent this from happening again. If you do not take action to prevent it, it will just occur with more and more frequency.

Now, lets look at a second example.

Step 1: The problem is you are taking trades that are not in your trading plan.

Step 2: Create a post-it note and put it on your monitor right next to your DOM, "IS THIS TRADE PART OF THE PLAN? IF NOT, YOU MUST NOT TAKE IT NO MATTER WHAT". It helps to remind yourself why... "IF YOU TAKE AN UNPLANNED TRADE, IT WILL BE A MISTAKE". It also helps to provide an alternative... "BY REMAINING FLAT YOU WILL BE PROPERLY POSITION TO TAKE THE CORRECT TRADE WHEN IT COMES".

Step 3: Each time you are about to click the DOM, you will see the note. It is helpful to work on only one problem at a time, so clear of all other notes and papers away from your monitors and desk. Make sure this note is highly visible, you cannot help but see it when you are about to place a trade. You will be reminded what has happened in the past if you take an unplanned trade.

Step 4: At the end of the day, how many unplanned trades did you take? If more than zero, your execution is flawed.

Step 5: If your execution was not perfect, you must continue to refine the plan to combat your weaknesses and play to your strengths. Do not allow yourself to simply take the unplanned trade without consequence, or you will just do it more and more often without ever making progress to solve the problem.

Mike

#665
Yes Mike well said, I have found in 10 years of trading that the internal battle that we have will either make or break you. Its similar to having an argument with the wife then trying to trade. Becouse other thinhs occupy your thoughts you make undisplined desissions and invariably lose. I for one dont mind admitting my weakneses and disipline is one of them that needs work. A clear head and sound principles and disipline, all very important. Thanks for the tread.

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#676


Anger as a tool to trade better


Big Mike
As I mentioned in the first few posts, I've been reading Brett's newest book and have felt a connection with what he is saying. So I am excited to write about it, and you'll find these next few posts will be mostly about concepts from the book.


- A losing trade is never a total loss as long as you learn from it

This is a hugely important item for most traders. Don't allow yourself to become angry or upset at a trade, it will cloud your judgment on future trades and occupy your mind with negative feelings. You'll be focused on not losing money, instead on focusing on trading well!

If you trade well, money will come. Don't put on a trade saying "I can make $200 on this trade". Instead, put on a trade when it meets your criteria for entry! All you can control is how well you trade, how well you follow your rules. You can even control the rules themselves! You have all you need, within, to be a successful trader.

Mike

Hi Mike and all.

I've decided to start my exploration of this site by reading this entire thread because for me, self-understanding has been one of two critical factors in success in my career as a professional trader (the other being identification of a bonafide edge). I've made my entire living being a trader for my own account since 1986, trading in the interest rate pits at the Chicago Board of Trade and trading interest rate products on the screen since 2002. I was a pretty big pit trader, trading up to 1000 contracts at a crack. For several years when I was hitting on all cylinders, my basic unit was 500 contracts, but I would trade up to 1000 if I thought I was getting an exceptional edge. I went many years without having a losing month. Trading on the screen has not been overly successful, but since I won't take significant risk if I don't feel I really know what I'm doing, it hasn't hurt anything but my feelings in a meaningful way.

Mike, you've probably changed how you feel about some of the things you have written here, but since I'm reading the thread sequentially I'm just going to comment as I see something I really like or something that has been at odds with my experience.

My experience with anger was that it sometimes motivated me to become a better trader. After my first few months in the pit, I got to where I could recognize some opportunities, but I was frequently too intimidated by the size of an order to trade with it, or was hesitant for some other reason to make the trade. When the market would do what I had thought it would do and I wasn't on board, I would get furious with myself for a) being such a pussy, and b) missing a clear chance to make money when chances didn't come along all that often. Finally the anger motivated me to make trades even if they made me uncomfortable as long as I really liked them. Eventually I got to the point where most of my peers would have considered me to be a fearless trader, which was pretty accurate.

Also, for me at least it's wrong to take clear mistakes (such as breaking my most important trading rules) in stride without getting PO'd at myself. If I feel real psychological pain because I screwed up bigtime, it will be a long time before I make that mistake again. Understand, this is not the same thing as being mad just because I lost money; losing money is part of the business. I agree that if you get mad every time you lose money, pretty soon you'll be totally unable to trade, or at least there'll be an awful lot of broken stuff lying around your office. But the psychological pain that comes from anger can be a very important teacher if you use it constructively.


#682
Psychology...No thanks! Here's the solution for me...Just Be It!
Since my first trade in 1985 this game has changed many times. Now it is screen trading and mouse execution. From day one every trader has warned me of the psychology of trading. After a string of early winners the experienced traders would say, "Wait till you get a real loser." And, yep they were right. So eventually I gathered all the books, tapes and rubbish in the name of mental trading. Brilliant they were, or were they? Like the dozen newsletters and 10 indicators and squawk noises, what happened when I got rid of them. Answer, nothing different.

So what is going on here? Broking, software, psychology, newsletters, indicators, chat rooms, webinars, seminars, fund managers and tipsters are all on the gravy train looking for a risk free lunch. Losing $300 in the market is a sensation few enjoy, so they get others to do it for them. Buying lunch for 5 or taking a losing position for the same value have totally different feelings.

Finally after years, the solution popped. What are all these indicators, psychology of trading webinars trying to help me achieve and failing miserably if I am truthful to mySelf?

Simple...so simple..."WINNING TRADES...NICE PROFITS"

How do I do that? "JUST BELIEVE IT"

Here's my technique....On the in breath....."Winning Trades".....On the out breath....."Nice Profits"....on the gap between the in and out breath "Just Be It"

That's it folks! Works a charm. If I am not in the State of Winning Trades and Nice Profits...why would I ever trade? When I am in this state guess what trades I am drawn to?

When I go for a walk the steps are "Winning Trades ... Nice Profits" ...on repeat...

When you finally BElieve this...you will experience winning trades and nice profits consistently.

Just be It!!!

Shivaya

I've had a lot of sayings in the last year, such as the "2 for 2" rule -- only change two things at a time in your trading, and don't change them more than once every 2 weeks. That means colors, indicators, instruments, bar types, entry rules, exit rules, risk rules, all of it. I also say that a "Master" trader is only a trader who has already made all the mistakes and learned from them. The key there is learning from mistakes instead of dooming yourself to repeat them, so make certain that you have a really sound plan for evaluating yourself on a routine basis and objectively deciding if you are going in circles or not. I would say without a doubt the "going in circles" syndrome is the most dangerous and most common phenomenon in trading.

Going in circles doesn't mean static or without change -- you could be changing stuff left and right and still be going in circles. What it means is you aren't moving forward, you aren't making progress. So to make sure this isn't happening to you, you absolutely must constantly evaluate yourself, measure yourself in such a way (hint: net profit is not the best way) to make it clear you aren't making forward progress. A simple idea is to simply read the last two weeks of your trading journal at the end of every week. This gives you a quick review of this week+last week to see if you've improved.

Everyone wants to make money, but you can't make that your own goal or the only way to measure yourself. It would be like saying that NASA had a goal to get a man on the moon, but they didn't have any intermediate goals in between. Of course they did, there were a lot of steps in between. So set some intermediate goals for yourself.

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#707


Hey guys,

I wanted to create this thread to draw the attention of struggling traders who have examined last years trading and found they lost more than they made. While personally I made more than I lost, my goal here is to help others.

First, I've been there. So have many others on the forum. I'll also start by saying that trading is not easy. I have said before that becoming a successful trader was the single hardest thing I have ever done in my life, and that I literally and to become a different person in order to succeed.

If that scares you, if you don't know for sure you have the resolve to see this through, then probably some of the best advice I can give you is to stop. Stop trading. Find something that you truly do want to do. Finding the thing that makes you happy and that you are good at is very important. Life is short, don't spend it struggling.

For those of you who have decided that trading is what you want to do and have the resolve to see it through, then I'd like to ask a few questions as I feel the answers will directly impact your chance for success.

1) Do you have your life outside of trading in order? If you don't, then you are not doing yourself any favors by focusing on trading. Don't think that if you can just pull your trading together that suddenly you will be able to pull together the other things in your life. It's the other way around. I am speaking from experience. You have got to position yourself for success, and that means you need to work through any other challenges in your life outside of trading and get them into a good place before you can tackle the new challenge of becoming a successful trader. For many, this will mean the best thing you can do is stop trading, focus on these external things, then come back to trading later.

2) Are you actually able to trade, financially? If you are trading with rent money or the kids college money, retirement money, etc then the answer is no. See item #1. It won't work! Please, for the sake of yourself and your family, stop trading. Come back to trading once you have a dedicated set of funds that you can use for your trading education and training. This is money that you will pay out and you need to accept that 100% of it will be gone. It's your tuition. You also then need a separate set of funds after you have "graduated" to fund your actual account. In both cases, these funds should not impact your life if they are lost.

3) Are you actually able to trade, time wise? This is more of a question of selecting the appropriate market to trade given your schedule. If you are working a 8-5 day job, then you can't be a day trader but you could be a swing trader. Make sure you have set yourself up for success, position yourself so you can succeed! Your trading style should make trading painless/effortless, no conflict with your job, no "rushed" feeling because you are squeezing it in before work, or during lunch.

4) Does trading make you happy? I figure that for the majority of traders that make it this far down the list, the answer is yes. But you should pause and really ask yourself if trading makes you happy. I don't mean only when you have a profitable trade, I mean the whole thing. All of it. If trading is causing you nothing but stress, nothing but problems in your life, nothing but strain on your relationships, then the answer is likely "no". It may be that you need to go back to item #1, #2 and #3 and work through some things so that the answer to #4 can be a resounding yes. Until that time, don't trade!

5) Are you willing to make dramatic changes to yourself to be successful at trading? It's not an exaggeration when I said earlier I had to literally become a different person to be successful at trading. I was previously a high power C-level executive, with lots of money and a lavish life style. I was good at problem solving, forward thinking, planning, and leadership. I was confident in myself and my abilities. This made me a great executive and great for the corporate world. It also made me an absolute terrible trader. I have read, and firmly believe, that people like me that enter trading blow up their accounts more/bigger/faster than other types of traders, for example a blue collar worker may find success much more easily in trading than a white collar worker. This is because a blue collar worker is generally better at following orders, where as a white collar worker doesn't like following the rules, he likes making them. In trading, the market is always right. You are simply along for the ride. If you cannot adjust your personality and style, you will blow up your account. You cannot overpower or "will" the market into doing what you want, and worse - if you try and occasionally find what appears on the surface to be "success", you will be creating and reinforcing some of the worst trading habits that exist. Don't take #5 lightly. If you've always been a big success in your career, it is likely you will have the hardest time in trading. You will have to admit defeat and admit you were wrong many, many times. And you'll have to be OK with it. And you'll have to learn from it.

6) Do you have the time and patience to become a successful trader? Let's take an example of a college kid fresh out of college that has a huge interest in the markets. If he has only given himself 3 months over summer to prove that he can be a successful trader, then he has already set himself up for failure. You cannot force a time table on success. Success happens on its own schedule. The more you try to rush it, the less likely it will come. A good number that most people agree with is 10,000 hours of screen time. That's a lot of screen time. What you are doing is making trading second nature. Another reason it requires so much time is that trading is a career only for the best of the best. You might relate it to becoming an astronaut. You'll have to beat out a lot of other traders in order to be successful and make it to the moon, figuratively or literally. That also means you will need to allow yourself to make all the mistakes that any trader can make, yet position yourself so that you can keep coming back. Mistakes are inevitable. A "master" trader is simply a trader who has made all the mistakes you can make, and has survived. You must have the time and patience to allow this process to unfold.

If you've made it this far down the list then congratulations. You will find yourself in rare company. If you are still struggling with your trading then you need to "step back" and examine your trading as impartially as possible so you can find your weaknesses and strengths, and then you need a plan to eliminate the weaknesses and reinforce the strengths. One of the best ways to do this is by creating a public journal on the forum, and posting your trades to it each day. You'll find the accountability to be a great motivation in improving your trading, and you'll find it is easy to see your mistakes when viewed in this light. You are also free to ask for others advice and opinions so that you may consider them and either reinforce what you already believe, or call into question what you believe and possibly make changes to it.

This is a brand new year. What will you do to become a successful trader this year?

Mike

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 CRM5096 
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had rough nite sleep , I have a bad cold and get sneezing fits , even having one now making this post .
I see the need for a restful nite sleep for trading , Well I traded anyhow and started out down on first trade and then spent the rest of the day till 12:00 noon eastern till i stopped . I clearly over traded I moved stops to fast in an attempt to get back positive. If i would of give trade room to work I easily would had a profitable day with 1/2 less trades. I also missed a bear mat hold candel pattern that is one of my favorites . I was long off S1 support and was confident , got stopped out long and missed the short set up , that got me upset with myself that i missed the short off candel pattern




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 CRM5096 
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from introduction thread


New to Big Mike's Trading Forum. Nice to be in the company of traders. I've been trading for 15 years now. Like most, I paid for my education by taking a beating when I was a novice. You always think you know enough, and then you learn some more.

I've made many friends and relatives 100% on their portfolios these last few years. I did that part time and through swing trading. (It was realtively easy following the 2008 tumble.)

I prefer day trading stocks. Things I have learned through the years are:

1. If you day trade, close positions by the end of the day.

2. Use stops and adhere to them. If you use trailing stops, let them go until they are hit or get out by end of the day.

3. 1% to 2% loss of your total capital on any one position. I stick to 1%. Also, if I lost 1%, that would be it for that day. If you have 100k and can trade 400k on any one position, you still use the 100k as your total capital; hence your limit would be 1000 to 2000 loss on any one trade.

4. Aim for a 3 to 1 profit/loss ratio. If your stop is 10 cents, your target gain should be 30 cents.

5. Over trading and not letting your profits hit their targets can hurt you just as bad as not leaving stops in place.

6. Have a system and back test it. Experiment with different P/L targets. Do I trade at market open or wait 15- 30 minutes before getting in? How long do I want to be in a position?

7. Don't keep changing your time frames and indicators until one finally meets what you want the stock to do. If you were wrong, adhere to your stop and move on.

Here is something that happened to me a long time ago and I am sure has happened to others:

You buy a stock at $10.00. You have a stop at $9.75. This is a day trade. Your stock goes to $9.55 and you freeze. You don't sell and say that this will now be a swing trade. A week goes by and the stock is now at $9.00. You convince yourself that you know you are right and that this is now an investment. 2 weeks later the stock is at $8.25. The following Monday a buyout or some other great news comes out and your stock is at 13 dollars. You are going nuts. You sell for a $3.00 profit. You tell yourself that you knew you were right all along.

3 months later you buy another 10.00 stock for a day trade. it goes below your stop and is at $9.65. You remember what happened last time and you think it will happen again. The stock slips to $8.75 a week later. You are not worried at all. You know you are right and the market is being manipulated by the market makers. Well, 1 month later your stock is at $4.95. You feel dejected and throw in the towel. You hate trading and say you'll never do it again. Sound familiar?

Trading is like when you were young and going to school. People told you to study hard, get good grades, etc. Do most of us listen or do we think we know it all? Only when we get older, and it's too late, do we realize we should've listened. Trading is the same way. We've all heard how to do it right, but we just won't listen until we experience the pain for ourselves. Why I ask, why?

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 CRM5096 
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did the same thing as yesterday missed the opening trade and counter traded under the CMA . I am growing in knowledge it is not a good idea to go long under CMA envolpe study

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 CRM5096 
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very restful night sleep and i started work 1 hour early started out with gold while keeping eye on YM

made less trades need to get trades down more , I stayed with trades longer today
i was trading gold and saw YM trade coming up off Andrews for i have been watching for months
i also had a bone thrown to me on gold with a 60m rising three candel pattern , target 60m 50sma I watched the 5m chart for entry that trade made me positive for the day in gold






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 CRM5096 
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very good trading day for me today , i got a late start around 10:00 am eastern and found trade set up easy on 5m chart I also was watchin 20 day 20m Andrews fork and saw trade set up comming




saw this trade coming in YM off andrews fork 2:50 pm eastern

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 CRM5096 
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don't have a lot to say , had a good morning , good nites sleep , the pivot studies worked excellent along with the envelope study, i also use a 555v chart not enough room to post trade entries and exits
had a tough afternoon with personal things, and with wind damage done again at business ,

i watched the afternoon trade on YM and same 20m fork worked again







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 CRM5096 
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 CRM5096 
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didnt post monday 3-12 , had a meeting with a unhappy client at 1:00 pm and that had me frazzled and on edge that showed up in my trading , manged to claw my way back from a big loss after client meeting took a couple of Tylenol and went to sleep for rest of afternoon session.
I have a lot going on in business right now it is hard to keep emotions in check , lots of stress


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 CRM5096 
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tuesday 3-13
doing much better today with a contractor backing us up on work we have done back in the fall , lots of stress from business. the trade set up in gold was an easy one i spotted a rising three candel pattern on 15m gold and followed it on 5m chart keeping an eye on pivot i closed out gold long at the high



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 CRM5096 
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OK , little over 1 year later and a lot of testing firing up the trade journal with a trade strategy using a propriety study called BDB "Bank Da Buck's" along with price action

Platform e signal

30 minute , 610 Tick , 333 tic , and 200 tic fib extension's

will be watching for trade set ups around 333 tic 20 sma

30 m & 610 tic for trend , using 20 & 50 sma

will be guided by a confluence of evidence with BDB study for entries and exits

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 CRM5096 
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here is screen shot of my set up for now , running 4 screens and hope to keep focusing on watching less

2013-05-26_1542 - CurtisM64's library

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 Big Mike 
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here is screen shot of my set up for now , running 4 screens and hope to keep focusing on watching less

Wrap screencast URL's in the [screencast] bbcode and they will embed automatically, like so:

[screencast]http://screencast.com/t/ZlOW89zq2[/screencast] becomes:



Mike

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 CRM5096 
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from last post till now my focus has been learning a brand new platform. the first week I learned I had bad internet connection that was causing platform lock ups and tracked it down to a bad router on ISP side. Router was replaced and no lock up since platform running smooth.

this week working on a set of time frames that works best for me with BDB system got it dialed in to 30 minute and 987 tic for trend with 333t for entries.

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 CRM5096 
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This was Friday afternoon trade set up i watched unfold on 30 minute Chart with BDB

30 Minute



987 Tic



333t entry


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 CRM5096 
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I learned a set up after watching BDB for last 2 days its called failed break out trade
here it is on 39 m chart Yesterday 6-10
grey over yellow with BSS over 30



here the trade was setting up on 333t Chart into the close today 6-11



Here is Trade close

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 CRM5096 
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BDB legend


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 CRM5096 
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This passed week June 10-14 , 2013 observing and leaning E-signal platform along with BDB . I had a memory issue with e-signal for fist part of week. I cleaned up work-spaces that i was not using from default install settings.

I am working on dialing in the time frames I will be using to put trades on.

I observed one short set up that I will be watching to trade Friday after open
breaking the 20 sma with signal arrow



the overnite session and larger picture of BDB 195 M will be watching for this


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