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the sloppy trader
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the sloppy trader

  #1 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
montreal
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: sterling trader
Favorite Futures: gold spy
 
Posts: 75 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 8 received

the sloppy trader

Ok so What makes this journal possibly different then others is the timing in my life which it is made.

A bit of quick history.

1. Started looking at trading last year.

2. Searched through many entry signals and could not find one that was relevant.

3. Stumbled across Andrews pitch fork and fine tuned it for a period of several months before trading. (Should be noted that this was the ONLY "tool" I looked in to as it was the only one that made sense). I Feel I have a much higher then average understanding of it. I find it is the best tool that shows resistance and support and can account for ALL market movement

6. Started day trading with a prop firm.

7. Lost my pants.

8. Realized there was something I'm not seeing

9 Usuing my information filtering techniques ( Same as the ones that led me to to Andrews fork) I tried to find a possible answer on line.

10 Found that by analysing my my entry's and exits I could discover what percent of the time i was right or wrong and adjust my risk to reward entries.

So Here we are in the present, one of my favourite time frames or at least it used to be.
I am now finding a way that i can use my forks IN THE SAME WAY each time. This will allow me to different ways to judge what entry and exit is best using the fork. A fork can be used a few ways in different time frames, in conjunction with other tools like "price action" one can use them for break outs or to go with the trend and each fork has a different relevance based on how many times a line was touched.

WHAT IS A FORK?

Think of it as an easier and earlier way to draw a channel based on very limited information. It is essentially a way to use micro movements such as a pulse to predict long term moves. an hour or two of information can be enough to "predict days of information.

WHERE HAVE YOU USED IT RECENTLY

I use it every day on every move. but more specifically it was used in finding the top 1900 or gold where we it touched the upper line. also even more recently we saw a low on gold that bounced off the bottom line. since that bounce of the bottom ( i think it was the day before new years around) we have only seen price go up.

In contrast I have also used it to find when trends will come to and end. Netflix was my study ground for the fork. it was just an upward trend. Using a new Technic I discovered that that Netflix would have a big fail.
For now you will not hear much about that but it would be nice if my learning brought me back to it

WHERE AM I NOW AND WHAT DO I PLAN TO DO

Right now I am the worlds most sloppy trader. At any given time i can find a reason to enter a trade. I used to make over 100 trades a day some times all based on forks on a micro tick chart level. I did this all on one chart the SPY.

What I plan to do is categorize my trades. and see which ones are more profitable.
Use different stocks so as to find the best time to enter instead of entering all the time on the same chart.
Also I may add another indicator or something to double my chances.
The first step in all of this is screening for stocks.

What I did today was a quick screen on think or swim software and pulled out some stocks. s and p high volume. filtering out anything that was at the ends of % increase bell cures this led me to a bunch of stocks. Out of that i went in the month,weekly, hourly of each one and drew in 1-2 forks for each time period.

Also i customized the forks (colors ect) to indicate what value each one has to me.

So that is the first little bit of work i have done to but some organisation to my work. Id say i ended up with about 10 charts that i liked and represented my forks well.

looking forward the goal is now to refine my search parameters (you will find that i am not tech savy)and have great difficulty with this besides scaning for volume and %increase.From there find a way to test different types of entrys this may be done in real time as back testing sounds to tech advanced for me.

jotting down what entry's yield what % return and what % of those entrys work.

Possibly adding something to reconfirm entry

and god knows what after that.

Any ways, if indeed people are participating i will continue . In the even this thread is not read for years and gets burried you can always try pm me. I enjoy my private messages and one should not hesitate to send one

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
montreal
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: sterling trader
Favorite Futures: gold spy
 
Posts: 75 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 8 received

Why would any one use a fork instead of something that could be automated


Now I am aware that i am going about all this the hard way, A Fork, or any drawing for that matter, is probably the hardest way to screen. It involves alot of manual work. even while doing that work one has to do his research (or her) in a way that is the same each time.

This is a very hard task. People tend to like changing the way they look at there drawings. maybe you wont use that pivote high as it was in the after hours and just does not fit well. or maybe this time you will use it.

A much simpler way to screen would be to find stocks nearing there x moving average or a crossover of moving averages and then maybe scan through those to find ones that are over bought and over sold.

Yes you are right. and I do see that such a system like that could be as valid as anything else. Also it it easy to scan and find I would imagine.

So why the fork?

It is actually the wrong step, I'm aware of this, but It is hard to leave behind all that i have learnt to this point. maybe After this little test of the fork I will drop it or even if it works i may add other systems.

I am going down the path less taken. but i must say that through this site, for the first time, I have seen people that seem to be trading in a way similar to what I am doing, I really hope to get some advice from these people while sharing my learnings. Through this site I have come across medianline.com I really like this site for many reasons not only the information.

I have also seen a few others that use this type of system.
Any ways I will try to post some pics of the charts and how i drew similar forks on different time frames for each one. once i figure out how to post a pic.

I know my writing at times can be hard to follow so if you need anything cleared up let me know

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  #4 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
montreal
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: sterling trader
Favorite Futures: gold spy
 
Posts: 75 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 8 received

also, any guidance from profitable traders will be appreciated as I am writing this journal as i develope my trading plan it could be implemented. Help in software and risk to reward ratios or any calculations would be where my weak point is and i have yet to get in to that besides the above mentioned screen which i would like to have better parameters.

I use think or swim as my charting as it is free and I find it to be one of the best platforms for anyone who relys heavily on drawings. to place my orders I use sterling trader. I know nothing about Sterling besides putting in a market order.

It should be noted that forks on think or swim have a bad habit of moving around when time frames are changed. Many wont realize this but i can always show an example of this. I try my best to work around by color coating my forks so that i know what time frame they were draw in.

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  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
Greensboro NC
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: TOS/ NT Dorman
Favorite Futures: ES TF CL
 
Rad4633's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,352 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 2,651 given, 886 received


traitor786 View Post
Ok so What makes this journal possibly different then others is the timing in my life which it is made.

A bit of quick history.

1. Started looking at trading last year.

2. Searched through many entry signals and could not find one that was relevant.

3. Stumbled across Andrews pitch fork and fine tuned it for a period of several months before trading. (Should be noted that this was the ONLY "tool" I looked in to as it was the only one that made sense). I Feel I have a much higher then average understanding of it. I find it is the best tool that shows resistance and support and can account for ALL market movement

6. Started day trading with a prop firm.

7. Lost my pants.

8. Realized there was something I'm not seeing

9 Usuing my information filtering techniques ( Same as the ones that led me to to Andrews fork) I tried to find a possible answer on line.

10 Found that by analysing my my entry's and exits I could discover what percent of the time i was right or wrong and adjust my risk to reward entries.

So Here we are in the present, one of my favourite time frames or at least it used to be.
I am now finding a way that i can use my forks IN THE SAME WAY each time. This will allow me to different ways to judge what entry and exit is best using the fork. A fork can be used a few ways in different time frames, in conjunction with other tools like "price action" one can use them for break outs or to go with the trend and each fork has a different relevance based on how many times a line was touched.

WHAT IS A FORK?

Think of it as an easier and earlier way to draw a channel based on very limited information. It is essentially a way to use micro movements such as a pulse to predict long term moves. an hour or two of information can be enough to "predict days of information.

WHERE HAVE YOU USED IT RECENTLY

I use it every day on every move. but more specifically it was used in finding the top 1900 or gold where we it touched the upper line. also even more recently we saw a low on gold that bounced off the bottom line. since that bounce of the bottom ( i think it was the day before new years around) we have only seen price go up.

In contrast I have also used it to find when trends will come to and end. Netflix was my study ground for the fork. it was just an upward trend. Using a new Technic I discovered that that Netflix would have a big fail.
For now you will not hear much about that but it would be nice if my learning brought me back to it

WHERE AM I NOW AND WHAT DO I PLAN TO DO

Right now I am the worlds most sloppy trader. At any given time i can find a reason to enter a trade. I used to make over 100 trades a day some times all based on forks on a micro tick chart level. I did this all on one chart the SPY.

What I plan to do is categorize my trades. and see which ones are more profitable.
Use different stocks so as to find the best time to enter instead of entering all the time on the same chart.
Also I may add another indicator or something to double my chances.
The first step in all of this is screening for stocks.

What I did today was a quick screen on think or swim software and pulled out some stocks. s and p high volume. filtering out anything that was at the ends of % increase bell cures this led me to a bunch of stocks. Out of that i went in the month,weekly, hourly of each one and drew in 1-2 forks for each time period.

Also i customized the forks (colors ect) to indicate what value each one has to me.

So that is the first little bit of work i have done to but some organisation to my work. Id say i ended up with about 10 charts that i liked and represented my forks well.

looking forward the goal is now to refine my search parameters (you will find that i am not tech savy)and have great difficulty with this besides scaning for volume and %increase.From there find a way to test different types of entrys this may be done in real time as back testing sounds to tech advanced for me.

jotting down what entry's yield what % return and what % of those entrys work.

Possibly adding something to reconfirm entry

and god knows what after that.

Any ways, if indeed people are participating i will continue . In the even this thread is not read for years and gets burried you can always try pm me. I enjoy my private messages and one should not hesitate to send one

Nice title, you caught my attention....Well Done

Doesnt matter if you use a fork or spoon whatever helps you see price action and how it moves! Watch Cat or Appl they trend clean it'll be a good start. Doesnt matter if they are a higher price because your using demo, add a 20ema to your chart watch how PA moves towards and away from it. Check out Thinkscriptor for some cool Ma codes. And post a picture of your chart with trades. Really it all comes down to you seeing PA and trading with the trend, up is up down is down.

100 trades a day I remember those days!

Just my 2cents, and last but not least all indicators are LAGGING, trade off of PA backed up with a indicator

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  #6 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
montreal
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: sterling trader
Favorite Futures: gold spy
 
Posts: 75 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 8 received

pictures

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

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not sure if this is the best way to post a pic but here you can see forks usually there are 1 or 2 per time frame.
So far forks are not drawn by the accumulation area but rather by relative high and lows. i think the other chart is gold, this shows how the trend was not violated if it is indeed the 10 year view one. If it is then it would be important to note that this fork was drawn way before we hit the 1900 mark it was done closer to a year ago where everything "was on track" for gold

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  #7 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
montreal
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: sterling trader
Favorite Futures: gold spy
 
Posts: 75 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 8 received

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Sorry, the above gold chart was a more recent zoom in to the post new year. Here is the multi year trend line again this was originally drawn at the beginning of the year. I don't day trade gold but have along position in it. Yes I could of sold at 1900 but then i would of ended up having my savings in cash which I do not like. so i held on and will untill the trend is broken to the bottom. in which case i will have another look at how things are happening.

In 2007 we had a break of an older fork i would imagine but this break represented an accumulation area that produced an even steeper up trend. so i may even hod through a break of the lower trend line. This is more a long term thing. You will hear me say a lot about gold as it is one of my passions but I have yet to day trade it. I hope you enjoy the above chart

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  #8 (permalink)
Elite Member
Greensboro NC
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: TOS/ NT Dorman
Favorite Futures: ES TF CL
 
Rad4633's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,352 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 2,651 given, 886 received


traitor786 View Post
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not sure if this is the best way to post a pic but here you can see forks usually there are 1 or 2 per time frame.
So far forks are not drawn by the accumulation area but rather by relative high and lows. i think the other chart is gold, this shows how the trend was not violated if it is indeed the 10 year view one. If it is then it would be important to note that this fork was drawn way before we hit the 1900 mark it was done closer to a year ago where everything "was on track" for gold

Add a 20ema repost, I feel like Im outside looking up at the stars trying to draw the big dipper, im just kidding. I KNOW nothing about using the fork I see some lines where price pulls away. How many ticks, pts or cents are you trying to get using the fork method.

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  #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Greensboro NC
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: TOS/ NT Dorman
Favorite Futures: ES TF CL
 
Rad4633's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,352 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 2,651 given, 886 received


traitor786 View Post
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Sorry, the above gold chart was a more recent zoom in to the post new year. Here is the multi year trend line again this was originally drawn at the beginning of the year. I don't day trade gold but have along position in it. Yes I could of sold at 1900 but then i would of ended up having my savings in cash which I do not like. so i held on and will untill the trend is broken to the bottom. in which case i will have another look at how things are happening.

In 2007 we had a break of an older fork i would imagine but this break represented an accumulation area that produced an even steeper up trend. so i may even hod through a break of the lower trend line. This is more a long term thing. You will hear me say a lot about gold as it is one of my passions but I have yet to day trade it. I hope you enjoy the above chart

Better chart, so your using it for long term trades meaning months?

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  #10 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
montreal
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: sterling trader
Favorite Futures: gold spy
 
Posts: 75 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 8 received


Thanks for the info. I had actually started off my learning with netflix its chart back then was a clean uphill road much like gold. i will add cat and appl and add them to the mix. I am thinking of adding moving averages or Fibonaccis to the charts they are crowded as it is but a moving average could me good to take note of on a spread sheet to see if my trades that correspond with the ma turn out to be more profitable.

The thing i don't like about them as there never seems to be any relevant action around them like there is with a fork but i get the picture.

Funnny thing about crowded charts. Im convinced that many people drop such drawings as they fill up the chart too much.. or maybe they just lower the amount of drawings. Its funny cause im sure many people have lost money on them and kept them. they only drop them cause it fills up the charts as mine seem to be doing already on my first day of using this system. does it make sense to drop some thing because it impedes your view over dropping it cause you blew your account ?

Its funny you mention price action, from what i gather this means looking at the formation of candles, a large candle with a big body means movement while long wicks with small bodies show resistance. and i know there is more to look at.
The funny thing about price action if you tear it down to there esentials what it actually is doing is reading the smaller time frame chart. you are looking in the candle to see what happened to price. it went up fast opened low and closed near its low.. on a smaller time frame chart this would be represented by a move up followed by a reversal.

In this case would it not be more easier and accurate to just take a look at the tick or 1 min chart ?

Thank you for your post im adding apple and CAT

Also I am not paper trading. I am live trading on sterling trader. i have taken a few days off to develop this plan and will try my best not to trade while doing so. I know this is more important but i really miss trading already. Maybe if i see a clear entry ill take it as it is also the best way to get data on my trades since i have no idea how to back test.

thanks for your responce i will try to post the CAT and apple pics soon maybe you will be willing to contradict my forks



Rad4633 View Post
Nice title, you caught my attention....Well Done

Doesnt matter if you use a fork or spoon whatever helps you see price action and how it moves! Watch Cat or Appl they trend clean it'll be a good start. Doesnt matter if they are a higher price because your using demo, add a 20ema to your chart watch how PA moves towards and away from it. Check out Thinkscriptor for some cool Ma codes. And post a picture of your chart with trades. Really it all comes down to you seeing PA and trading with the trend, up is up down is down.

100 trades a day I remember those days!

Just my 2cents, and last but not least all indicators are LAGGING, trade off of PA backed up with a indicator


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