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The PandaWarrior Chronicles
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The PandaWarrior Chronicles

  #1871 (permalink)
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I appreciate the points you've made and I can readily admit that time could play a role in a non time based strategy. I have not explored this aspect at all other than the fact that I can look at at hundreds of charts and tell you with a degree of confidence that time was never a consideration in how that chart looked with regard to structure.

This would of course change with a time based chart. .

My only other consideration would be time of day. I find that there are patterns more or less at certain times of the day. In this regard, time is important to the degree that those patterns repeat. And they don't always repeat. It's just that there is a tendency for certain things to happen more or less around the same time every day.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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  #1872 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
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Everything matters.
Time also matters.
Everything is about time.
I have traded with just range charts on occasion and all of a sudden there was 12 0r 13 bars going up !
I didnt have time to get in the trade

What time is the non farm payroll report ?

What time is the opening range ?

What time does the pit open ?

You trade crude oil at certain times.

I could go on and on but I dont have time.

peace to the trading brethren

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  #1873 (permalink)
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shanemcdonald28 View Post
Everything matters.
Time also matters.
Everything is about time.
I have traded with just range charts on occasion and all of a sudden there was 12 0r 13 bars going up !
I didnt have time to get in the trade

What time is the non farm payroll report ?

What time is the opening range ?

What time does the pit open ?

You trade crude oil at certain times.

I could go on and on but I dont have time.

peace to the trading brethren

I get all that....but we've drifted away from my original point.

That is; on a non time based bar, structure is what's important. Once entered, the trade should not exited because I get impatient because its taking to long even though the same trade yesterday took half the time the current one taking. Only exit once the objective is reached or the structure has changed.

Time becomes important only if an open trade begins to run into an important news event like the weekly inventory report. Then the decision to exit or keep the trade open becomes something to consider. Otherwise hold the trade.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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  #1874 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
new york
 
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yes, I did stray from the original point, sorry.

Besides, I agree mostly with your thoughts on price structure.
I have 4 charts I use; range, renko, tick and minute. 3 are based on price and only one on time.
I do have a bias towards the price.

I have several automated strategies I use and they all are based on price structure and not time.

thanks

shane

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  #1875 (permalink)
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PandaWarrior View Post
Often times, its the losing weeks that offer the best lessons. This week I struggled with holding trades early in the week. Then I took a day off, which turned out to be the best trading day of week for my style and time frames. Then today, my style was completely ill suited for what was presented today.

So how is this a great lesson?

Its simple really. Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, I had plenty of opportunity. That opportunity did not present the way I liked and as a result, I cut winners short. I did manage to stay above water but the occasional full on stop out day like today resulted in a losing week....my first one in a long time.

The lesson is this. I don't trade time, I trade structure. And structure cares nothing about time. This means I must stay with the trade regardless of how long its taking. Just hang in there. Had I stayed with the structure, I would have had a 100+ week instead of a losing week.

On Wednesday, I was long and almost out of time. I had to leave for SoCal. It was either close the trade and leave or stay home. So I closed the trade. I should have just got up and walked away. I would have had $500 waiting for me when I got home....but that assumes no freak flash crashes occurs, no power interruptions, etc....still smarter to just close the trade....or wait a few minutes longer.

Either way, the week was lost on Monday and Tuesday when I closed the winning trades short. Small decisions compound themselves over time and in this case, led to a losing week.

I preach holding the winners and let them overcome the losers thereby producing a profit over time. This is impossible to do if you cut them short!

@rsong18 this is the post you are looking for.


I have thought a lot about this post this weekend. From the looks of all the replies I gather many others did also.
This is truly what futures.io (formerly BMT) is all about.

My 2Cents is If you were to take the time and price axis off of 20 different charts I would dare to say you could not tell me if it was a 5 minute 60 min or a weekly.

If you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten.
Celebrate because you executed your edge. Not because you won.
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  #1876 (permalink)
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Eventually exited with +50 ticks

+35 on the day

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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  #1877 (permalink)
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That looks like a Joe Ross Hook entry.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

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  #1878 (permalink)
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NW27 View Post
That looks like a Joe Ross Hook entry.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

There's probably a dozen different names for it. I call it a breakout.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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  #1879 (permalink)
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PandaWarrior View Post

The lesson is this. I don't trade time, I trade structure. And structure cares nothing about time. This means I must stay with the trade regardless of how long its taking. Just hang in there. Had I stayed with the structure, I would have had a 100+ week instead of a losing week.

Very TRUE many of us Don't trade TIME , we trade Structure, but Glued to Time charts as it is 100 years Legacy ..

I struggled with this Time vs. Structure concept, recently started using RENKO charts in addition to my other charts, It is helping me.

Here is good Intro on RENKO charts
How to Trade with Renko Charts - YouTube

Here is my recent post with Renko charts .
https://futures.io/trading-journals/17308-day-trading-crude-without-indicators-908.html#post369392

It will take couple of days to understand the Dynamics of these RENKO in real time, once you get handle it may help you.

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  #1880 (permalink)
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PandaWarrior View Post
My only other consideration would be time of day. I find that there are patterns more or less at certain times of the day. In this regard, time is important to the degree that those patterns repeat. And they don't always repeat. It's just that there is a tendency for certain things to happen more or less around the same time every day.

I noticed some Patterns repeat majority of the days ( not always), For example with OIL CL here are two Time patterns I noticed repeats often days.

1/ moving in the 'Direction of the Trend ' from 2:10 to 2:17 PM EST
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- that is Leading to 15 minutes before PIT CLOSE 2:30 PM EST , I noticed many days this pattern. Price moved from PULL BACK to Previous Prevailing Trend Direction .one explanation I had is as follows.

a/ Let us take the example of CL today Tuesday 11/19 . With Price hovering around 94.05 many Bears are Trapped from 93.70 Levels and they are happy to close around 94.80 level . With the small Pull back to 93.90 Level many Trapped bears are waiting to Close around 93.80 Level .
b/ And Also 2:15 PM EST is also the time 'DAY Margin' expires with many of the FIRMS, so many people need to close at least some of their Positions.

- Bulls knows above two factors and and Bid up prices to 'Previous high range' , so is the UP Price Action .
- I noticed this pattern WORKED on the days especially when 'Bears' are Trapped in the Price action like Today

2/ Noticed prices are in Uptrend or at least stabilize ( NO big drop in price) from 1:20 to 1:30 PM EST and then 'DownTrend or Neutral' following 15 minutes that is 1:35 to - 1:45 PM EST
a/ I do not have explanation for this except , that is 1 hour before PIT close .

Again these Price patterns won't happen always, I would put the probability around 62% to 68%


Last edited by EdgeExecution; November 19th, 2013 at 06:32 PM.
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