Catching Big Waves - a trader's journal of surfing the the markets - Trading Journals | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Catching Big Waves - a trader's journal of surfing the the markets
Updated: Views / Replies:279,052 / 4,686
Created: by GaryD Attachments:1,123

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Closed Thread
 1,123  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Catching Big Waves - a trader's journal of surfing the the markets

  #4431 (permalink)
Elite Member
london/england
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra charts, NinjaTrader, VK Trader
Broker/Data: CQG, AMP, VK, Kinetick
Favorite Futures: CL/6E/TF/ES
 
Posts: 952 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 562 given, 1,267 received


GaryD View Post
You don't "know". And it is not the best thing I could have done. And max down rules are good and should be honored. So I broke my rules, and could have suffered from it. But do trading rules guarantee succcess?

Trading is about risk and probabilities. What was right before me was hard to find, but there it was. Is it better to wait for tomorrow's "setup", or go again today on something so screamingly blatant?

There are no solid answers. Only probabilities. Max down is a mathematical advantage, intended to eliminate revenge trading, and intended to give you a chance to be more aligned with the market. What happened today was just different. I hope I do it again sometime.

Are you justifying breaking your rules then?

Rules are there to protect your account, aren't they?

My argument is this mentality/thought process can cause you to spiral out of control............

Rules are there to be followed, so follow them

"I will execute my trading my trading plan and rules with strict discipline, they are there to protect me. This allows me to live and breathe to survive another day in a positive state of mind"

Just saying, thats my view....what do i know

" I will follow my rules, I will take my stops, I will be disciplined and i will work with the market....NOT AGAINST IT! Professional mind control is the key"
The following user says Thank You to greenr for this post:
 
  #4432 (permalink)
Elite Member
New York, NY
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, thinkorswim
Broker/Data: Amp-Rithmic/TT, IB
Favorite Futures: CL, GC, NQ
 
Posts: 569 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 1,797 given, 249 received


GaryD View Post
You don't "know". And it is not the best thing I could have done. And max down rules are good and should be honored. So I broke my rules, and could have suffered from it. But do trading rules guarantee succcess?

Trading is about risk and probabilities. What was right before me was hard to find, but there it was. Is it better to wait for tomorrow's "setup", or go again today on something so screamingly blatant?

There are no solid answers. Only probabilities. Max down is a mathematical advantage, intended to eliminate revenge trading, and intended to give you a chance to be more aligned with the market. What happened today was just different. I hope I do it again sometime.

No guarantees in trading, but the rules do help us move towards success and away from failure, no? How else can we consistently prevent situations like your recent disciplinary lapse and resulting large loss, and any ongoing issues it may be causing for you now? Do you think it's ok to break them if it works out to be profitable? Is it still ok if breaking them causes a big loss?

Thanks for your thoughts. For me personally, and what I have learned from my experience, it is always better to wait for tomorrow's setup, as the potential risks of revenge trading/overtrading far outweigh any potential profits for today. It is through not following max drawdown/risk management rules, that I have overtraded and revenge traded, and destroyed accounts.

The following user says Thank You to Futures Operator for this post:
 
  #4433 (permalink)
Elite Member
london/england
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra charts, NinjaTrader, VK Trader
Broker/Data: CQG, AMP, VK, Kinetick
Favorite Futures: CL/6E/TF/ES
 
Posts: 952 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 562 given, 1,267 received



greenr View Post
Are you justifying breaking your rules then?

Rules are there to protect your account, aren't they?

My argument is this mentality/thought process can cause you to spiral out of control............

Rules are there to be followed, so follow them

"I will execute my trading my trading plan and rules with strict discipline, they are there to protect me. This allows me to live and breathe to survive another day in a positive state of mind"

Just saying, thats my view....what do i know


Futures Operator View Post
No guarantees in trading, but the rules do help us move towards success and away from failure, no? How else can we consistently prevent situations like your recent disciplinary lapse and resulting large loss, and any ongoing issues it may be causing for you now? Do you think it's ok to break them if it works out to be profitable? Is it still ok if breaking them causes a big loss?

Thanks for your thoughts. For me personally, and what I have learned from my experience, it is always better to wait for tomorrow's setup, as the potential risks of revenge trading/overtrading far outweigh any potential profits for today. It is through not following max drawdown/risk management rules, that I have overtraded and revenge traded, and destroyed accounts.


" I will follow my rules, I will take my stops, I will be disciplined and i will work with the market....NOT AGAINST IT! Professional mind control is the key"
The following user says Thank You to greenr for this post:
 
  #4434 (permalink)
Elite Member
New York, NY
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, thinkorswim
Broker/Data: Amp-Rithmic/TT, IB
Favorite Futures: CL, GC, NQ
 
Posts: 569 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 1,797 given, 249 received


greenr View Post

What does this mean?

 
  #4435 (permalink)
Elite Member
london/england
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra charts, NinjaTrader, VK Trader
Broker/Data: CQG, AMP, VK, Kinetick
Favorite Futures: CL/6E/TF/ES
 
Posts: 952 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 562 given, 1,267 received


Futures Operator View Post
What does this mean?

We are both prodding him about the same topic

It's late 3:25 in London, I really should get some sleep

" I will follow my rules, I will take my stops, I will be disciplined and i will work with the market....NOT AGAINST IT! Professional mind control is the key"
The following user says Thank You to greenr for this post:
 
  #4436 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Various
Favorite Futures: Various
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,897 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 5,143 given, 11,242 received


GaryD View Post
But I am seeing it removed some of my fear. And while the situation could have been different, I needed it.

I have not followed what's going on but I take it you had a bad day and this is what you're referencing. Having had large down days has also served the useful purpose of removing fear for me as well. Not that I'm advocating a large down day for this purpose mind you, but afterward you kind of realize, like... it's not the end of the world. I don't have a new disease, my dog still likes me, and my family still loves me and is supportive of me, I haven't gained weight, and things could be much worse. And maybe most importantly, "that's not who I am." Maybe it's foolish what I did, maybe my behavior was not mature or ideal or (fill in the blank), but that is not me. I am not defined by my largest winning day or losing day. My identity will not be wrapped up into a single day or week's performance.

As for rules, "always follow the rules no matter what" is echoed by pretty much every vendor and retail trader out there who can't trade their way out of a paper bag, so I put that kind of thinking into the "never add to a loser, never move your stop, always plan every trade before the day starts" category -- well-intended advice that just isn't practical 100% of the time.

The following 4 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
  #4437 (permalink)
Elite Member
New York, NY
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, thinkorswim
Broker/Data: Amp-Rithmic/TT, IB
Favorite Futures: CL, GC, NQ
 
Posts: 569 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 1,797 given, 249 received


josh View Post
As for rules, "always follow the rules no matter what" is echoed by pretty much every vendor and retail trader out there who can't trade their way out of a paper bag, so I put that kind of thinking into the "never add to a loser, never move your stop, always plan every trade before the day starts" category -- well-intended advice that just isn't practical 100% of the time.

So I guess I could fall into the category of the retail trader who can't trade their way out of a paper bag, and would like to improve. In my own experience, I have found that breaking rules, adding to losers, moving stops, taking unplanned trades, etc are things that have hurt me much more than they have helped me. But I am open minded, and would love to hear from a more experienced trader on why/how/when they could be helpful.

 
  #4438 (permalink)
User requested to be banned
Orlando, Florida
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Favorite Futures: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011
Thanks: 2,090 given, 5,026 received


greenr View Post


OK, ok... Put the stick down.



Yes, rules are to be followed. The point I was making, if there is one, is that the price action was so clear in that moment that I felt stronger about it than normal. If it was ok to trade again after waiting a pre-defined time period, as in the next trading day, then taking another trade was allowed in the "future". The conditions that were in front of me seemed of higher value than the "rule" of how long I should wait.

The following user says Thank You to GaryD for this post:
 
  #4439 (permalink)
User requested to be banned
Orlando, Florida
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Favorite Futures: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011
Thanks: 2,090 given, 5,026 received


josh View Post
I have not followed what's going on but I take it you had a bad day and this is what you're referencing. Having had large down days has also served the useful purpose of removing fear for me as well. Not that I'm advocating a large down day for this purpose mind you, but afterward you kind of realize, like... it's not the end of the world. I don't have a new disease, my dog still likes me, and my family still loves me and is supportive of me, I haven't gained weight, and things could be much worse. And maybe most importantly, "that's not who I am." Maybe it's foolish what I did, maybe my behavior was not mature or ideal or (fill in the blank), but that is not me. I am not defined by my largest winning day or losing day. My identity will not be wrapped up into a single day or week's performance.

Good point. Thanks Josh. The short version of the story, I had a battle with my ego and lost.




josh View Post

As for rules, "always follow the rules no matter what" is echoed by pretty much every vendor and retail trader out there who can't trade their way out of a paper bag, so I put that kind of thinking into the "never add to a loser, never move your stop, always plan every trade before the day starts" category -- well-intended advice that just isn't practical 100% of the time.

Right. Rules alone are not everything. Intuition is not something that can be taught, or identified as a rule. I do not have a rule for when I see something that triggers a strong feeling of certainty. What happened was unusual price action in my mind, relative to recent history, and the signal of breaking the top was highly significant to me. It is just something that called for action on my part, regardless of any pre-defined rules, as I watch these markets every day of my life almost, and what I saw, what I felt, was an opportunity not to be missed.

The following 2 users say Thank You to GaryD for this post:
 
  #4440 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Various
Favorite Futures: Various
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,897 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 5,143 given, 11,242 received



Futures Operator View Post
So I guess I could fall into the category of the retail trader who can't trade their way out of a paper bag, and would like to improve. In my own experience, I have found that breaking rules, adding to losers, moving stops, taking unplanned trades, etc are things that have hurt me much more than they have helped me. But I am open minded, and would love to hear from a more experienced trader on why/how/when they could be helpful.

FO, that was not at all my intention, I wasn't singling out anyone. I think Gary's example is a perfect one of how his good experience allowed him to benefit from his intuition rather than allowing a rule to bind him unnecessarily. I'm not advocating breaking rules, or doing any of those other things for you or anyone personally. Take what Gary said:


GaryD View Post
If it was ok to trade again after waiting a pre-defined time period, as in the next trading day, then taking another trade was allowed in the "future".

Exactly -- the "time out" that a max daily loss is supposed to accomplish is only logical and helpful if indeed it does cause one to "cool down" and get his wits about him. You could wait until next WEEK and still trade poorly, if things aren't right. Or, you could gather yourself and in 5 minutes do wonderful. So, having a generic amount of time between losses may work as a general case, but passing on an opportunity just for the sake of following a rule, in effect, negates the value and principle behind that rule. If one knows oneself well, it can work, if not, it could be more harmful.

The following 3 users say Thank You to josh for this post:

Closed Thread



futures io > > > Catching Big Waves - a trader's journal of surfing the the markets

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Surfing and Trading shodson Psychology and Money Management 14 September 28th, 2015 01:26 PM
Little League to the Big Leagues - Journal of a simple trader rtrade Elite Trading Journals 142 July 23rd, 2011 05:22 PM
Trader 11 Journal greggdd Trading Journals 15 March 18th, 2011 12:53 AM
New Beginnings: The Journal of a Trader's Journey to Equanimity plethora Trading Journals 122 March 5th, 2011 11:13 PM
Rookie Future Trader Alex's Trading Journal alex123 Elite Trading Journals 69 June 20th, 2010 04:14 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:40 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-15 in 0.18 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.234.255.29