Yes, I have my loss limit written. Yes, I have it mental. And no, I did not consciously break it on this occasion.
I did it subconsciously. It came without warning. It came with no signal it was there. It did not even say hello.
When we trade from a position of feeling we need something, we deserve something, we are angry about not having something... something lives inside us.
I thought mine was gone, or was well under control. I traded very well for over a year.
I cannot even think of a reason why, at that particular moment, on that very day, whatever "that" is decided to come to the surface. I was not upset, I did not have a bad day, I was feeling good, I was up $1k on the day before that moment...
Many of us come to trading because we feel we need something; Hope, faith, purpose, vindiction, value, an identity... And all of those things can also be listed as the causes of failure. How rare it must be to find a trader with a pure heart.
The mixture of feelings running through me tonight is complex. I still believe I am a good trader. And at the same time I believe I have no reason right now to believe that.
What we seek may be money, but that is an illusion. We want to feel OK. Tough way to do it for sure.
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If price gets there, and with what is happening currently, I expect a reaction around 91 something. Reersal or just scalpable, it is always hard to know. But if I was going to trade, and I am undecided, if volume showed itself there I would expect 20 ticks or more...
Last edited by GaryD; September 30th, 2012 at 08:15 PM.
I read your post and reflected on my own human behavior in general pondering why people
that have developed a discipline in one filed for a long time break it in such a big way.
This is truly not trading related issue rather I see that in many areas.
I think that it stems from "well, if I broke the rules, I might as well go all the way"
For example, I see that in dieting, where one commits to a certain calorie intake, but when rules are
broken even a liitel, then one goes all the way and eat like is a Roman banquet.
Another example when people smoke, and cheat with one cigarette and then end up smoking the all day.
I suggest to have a sticker on your computer and I have myself "never place a trade randomly"
This might seem like a simple solution but encompasses many aspects of our actions.
If you start a trade a trade with "I think" skip it
If you start a trade with "going long/short BECAUSE....." you are on a better path.
I fight randomness in my career, life,trading and even my diet.
By no means have I mastered all these things that I consider ideal.
Gary, we are all in this struggle together where some admit it or not.
PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
Last edited by mattz; October 1st, 2012 at 05:04 AM.
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Thanks Matt. Very true. The past few posts have been humiliating for me, but why have a journal if it is not accurate.
I slipped. It may be common, but to me it shows an underlying void that I have not yet properly addressed. If I ignore it, try to brush it off and think some simple new rule will be the cure all, I believe I am just resetting the timer. What I am faced with is a true trading secret. How I manage this episode will most likely be a major fork in the road.
I have a weakness that I thought was bound by "rules". But no rule can overcome something so strongly embedded. I think my past losses have made me not accept loss. Understandable, but not tolerable to be an effective trader. The money I lost will not affect my life nearly as much as whether or not I deal with the cause.
I am calm tonight. Not accepting, but calm. Lying here visualizing finding that place where whatever it is exists, trying to feel it. Trying to know it. Very tiring.
We've all heard the saying, "I'm only as good as my last trade." Well, I'm here to say YOU are much better than that! If you're a trader (and I know you are) you'll be back swinging your Big Johnson in no time. I've read your thread since I came to futures.io (formerly BMT) and I have no intentions of changing that. If it weren't for you I wouldn't have made a make-shift Disc Golf course in my back yard. (now I can't keep the kids out !)
There's one area of your trading that I think holds a key to all the mental masturbation you've been posting for the last several months, position size. If I read a recent post correctly, you went in with 1 (contract ?) then 5 then 15 then 25. I guess your reason was to HURRYUPANDMAKEBACKYOURLOSS, but obviously it didn't work, this time. Honestly, I'm glad it didn't work and you might want to be grateful about that too. Because if it did work and you did recoup your previous loss you might be tempted to try it again, the next time.
IMO, I think it's time for you to either, "shit, or get off the pot!" It's time for you to decide if you're a one lot trader, a five lot trader, a fifteen lot trader or a twenty five lot trader. If you want to make money at this, trading the system, method, style you're trading you're going to have to take the plunge. I've watched you trade, you're good, maybe you just wanted to be "right" just a little to much on this trade and you continued to believe you were "still right" every time you added to your position. The question you may want to ask yourself is, did I close out the trade because of the pain of losing money or was it the pain of being wrong. From what you've posted lately I've formed my own opinion. Here's a quote I picked up some where, "Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment."
I suggest you commit to a trade size, and trade it. You decide, from what I've read on your thread 5 or 6 seems about right. I think you're delaying the inevitable trading 2 then 6 then 3 then 4, I sense some weird fear of future failure. I've found if I trade the same size, trade after trade I have a better understanding of how my system works and a more accurate measurement of my results. You know how to control risk, you have a daily loss limit, you have a proven method and you know how to trade. IMO, it's time to put this loss behind you, every trade is a new adventure, you learned your lesson, there's no need to sit in the corner with a dunce cap on. From what I've read in your thread, you want this, you want this to the core of your being, you want to trade for a living and you want to rewarded smartly for your time and effort. IMO, trading the same contract size day in and day out is the safest way to attain intelligent achievable monetary goals.
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This did catch my eye when you posted it....i thought to my self really Mr @GaryD
I me is "Easy" the right words MR!!!!
I wouldnt say any of that is easy on any daily basis no matter how good you are or how long you have been doing this
Its is "CONTROLED" but far from easy......
what do you have to say about this?
You also mentoined that some one on here been telling you to trade size?
Are they to blaime?
Also from what i have read the people telling you to trade size was because you want to trade size and you were supposed to start trading size in a trade plan and in a "CONTROLLED" manor...............................................
You also said
"""""QUOTE=GaryD;267728I really wish there was someone "live" I could talk to.QUOTE"""""""
I sent you a PM last night to talk on skype, no reply and i did try my hardest when i was in USA to meet you
Get a grip bro, you took a hit but i want to see you back up on that high horse soon with whats that word called.....
Respect what has happened, honor it, use the experience and use techniques to not let it happen again
" I will follow my rules, I will take my stops, I will be disciplined and i will work with the market....NOT AGAINST IT! Professional mind control is the key"
Last edited by greenr; October 1st, 2012 at 08:08 AM.
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Thank you for the encouragement and advice. I agree I know a lot about trading, far more than I believe many times. But it's the believing part that matters. In trading, knowledge without faith, and/or faith without action, makes the knowledge of little value.
I have seperated my office between trading and other business, moved things into a completely different room, and am going to reduce the time I spend watching charts considerably. Maybe just the morning session 8-11, or at most 8-11 and then 1-2:30.
I may still do the Topstep Trader combine. It has some mechanical limits built in that insure I cannot do what I did recently. Even though, I seriously doubt I need them after this recent meeting with myself.
My pursuit of trading knowledge can rest some. Trading will always be here, and I have a good income in my business, expecting 2013 to be very strong even if I don't take a trade.
I have picked a number of contracts to trade; one. That is enough to keep my interest, allow me to stay sharp, get some more practice with targets, and not get hurt. The money I lost did not hurt me so bad as the feeling I had for days after. Hard to explain maybe.
Had I not come to trading from such a desperate stance, had I not experienced such trauma in advance, I would probably be far ahead of where I am today. But I am where I am, and seeking out that place in me that is still hurt, and trying to make peace with, it is the most critical step I can take right now. I closed my eyes in bed last night and just sought out that feeling. I thought maybe I caught some of it, but just as trading is full of ambiguity, hunting for inner causes could take me awhile. And until I feel I have resolved whatever that is, trading full time will never be a reality. And that's ok.
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The areas I commented were "easy" are easy. Not holding after hours, not hitting a predefined loss, etc. Hitting the profit objective is the hard part.
There is no one to blame but myself, I decide how to trade, how much to trade, etc. All I needed was a push in the size direction and I was ready to overcome it.
I saw the PM, and would love to talk again on Skype soon, but I am just talked out. I am going to just chill for awhile.
I went searching through my books of stories of traders, looking for examples of how they dealt with similar occurences. Most had them. But it did not comfort me this time. This is no longer about someone else's story, it is about mine. I need to search myself a bit harder, stop putting the emphasis on the charts.
I'll survive, I'll probably come back even, but there is a psychological wound I have that has never healed, and apparently is dangerously infected. That is where my attention needs to be right now. Even if that means not trading, and it might.
I'm watching today, probably this week. I am in my home, all is calm, work is caught up, work in progress is far ahead of schedule. Nothing to do really related to my business this week. And that is great timing, because I have some serious work ahead on the inside.