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Catching Big Waves - a trader's journal of surfing the the markets
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Catching Big Waves - a trader's journal of surfing the the markets

  #3501 (permalink)
Elite Member
Toronto, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Broker/Data: TD Ameritrade, Dorman/Zenfire
Favorite Futures: CL,ES
 
VinceVirgil's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,752 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 2,144 given, 9,180 received


tderrick View Post
For me, this is the key to the whole gag of trading. It ties directly to emotion - my nemesis.

I am a completely different trader when money is NOT on the line....

Quite irritating, really

Sure...money is on the line. But money is always on the line. Otherwize, why would you trade? Its a job, a vocation, a carreer, a means to an end.

You are talking about the money you can potentially make in the market, or lose. But what about the opportunity cost?

What about the unpteen hours you have put in working at your craft. What about the study you have undertaken, the backtesting you have done, the meditaion you have participated in? Who paid for that? you did? Or rather, you invested it. Should you not get a return on your investment. Do you not deserve value?

The market doesnt owe you anyting. but it should pay you for a job well done. So, take it out of the market in the form of a check. Set up and LLC, run your trades through it and have it pay you a salary...(plus bonus) Get a board of directors that you are accountable too, and explein to them, quartely, why you are doing the things you are doin. Become accountable on a longer time frame. Do everyting you can possible do so that its not about the money (even though its always about the money) Why?...because you trade best when it isnt about the money.

My question is, why does money change things for you? (not speccifcally you, but in general) It isnt the money itself, but what it represents as to ones view of self. Lots of money --- good, smart, good provider. Little monoey---bum, failure, ne'ar do well.

No one really wants to be a multimillionaire. People want to live the life of a multimillionare...to have the freedom from the drudgery of a 80 hour workweek at something you dont like.

Money isnt created or destroyed...it just moves form one hand to another...or one form to another.

SO, appraoch trading as a businessman. Buy cheap and sell dear, or sell dear and buy cheap. Buy support, sell resistance. Do that well, the money will take care of itself. Whatever form it takes.

In the investment business it cant be about the money. Because, when its about the money, people crash and burn. Seen it over and over and over. In collegues, in clients...

Its not about the money (Well, it shouldnt be...)

Of course, the opinions expressed here are my own, and does not constitute investment advise. This diatribe is for educational purposes only.

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  #3502 (permalink)
Elite Member
Nashville, Tennessee
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja / Jigsaw / 9G
Broker/Data: AMP / CQG
Favorite Futures: NQ, YM and ES
 
tderrick's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,589 since Sep 2010
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Beautiful, baby..... Beautiful.....

Thanks.




VinceVirgil View Post
Sure...money is on the line. But money is always on the line. Otherwize, why would you trade? Its a job, a vocation, a carreer, a means to an end.

You are talking about the money you can potentially make in the market, or lose. But what about the opportunity cost?

What about the unpteen hours you have put in working at your craft. What about the study you have undertaken, the backtesting you have done, the meditaion you have participated in? Who paid for that? you did? Or rather, you invested it. Should you not get a return on your investment. Do you not deserve value?

The market doesnt owe you anyting. but it should pay you for a job well done. So, take it out of the market in the form of a check. Set up and LLC, run your trades through it and have it pay you a salary...(plus bonus) Get a board of directors that you are accountable too, and explein to them, quartely, why you are doing the things you are doin. Become accountable on a longer time frame. Do everyting you can possible do so that its not about the money (even though its always about the money) Why?...because you trade best when it isnt about the money.

My question is, why does money change things for you? (not speccifcally you, but in general) It isnt the money itself, but what it represents as to ones view of self. Lots of money --- good, smart, good provider. Little monoey---bum, failure, ne'ar do well.

No one really wants to be a multimillionaire. People want to live the life of a multimillionare...to have the freedom from the drudgery of a 80 hour workweek at something you dont like.

Money isnt created or destroyed...it just moves form one hand to another...or one form to another.

SO, appraoch trading as a businessman. Buy cheap and sell dear, or sell dear and buy cheap. Buy support, sell resistance. Do that well, the money will take care of itself. Whatever form it takes.

In the investment business it cant be about the money. Because, when its about the money, people crash and burn. Seen it over and over and over. In collegues, in clients...

Its not about the money (Well, it shouldnt be...)

Of course, the opinions expressed here are my own, and does not constitute investment advise. This diatribe is for educational purposes only.



AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


"Life On The Edge of SR"
 
  #3503 (permalink)
Elite Member
Nashville, Tennessee
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja / Jigsaw / 9G
Broker/Data: AMP / CQG
Favorite Futures: NQ, YM and ES
 
tderrick's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,589 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 4,260 given, 2,527 received


Hey.... Tell me more about this LLC gag...



VinceVirgil View Post
Sure...money is on the line. But money is always on the line. Otherwize, why would you trade? Its a job, a vocation, a carreer, a means to an end.

You are talking about the money you can potentially make in the market, or lose. But what about the opportunity cost?

What about the unpteen hours you have put in working at your craft. What about the study you have undertaken, the backtesting you have done, the meditaion you have participated in? Who paid for that? you did? Or rather, you invested it. Should you not get a return on your investment. Do you not deserve value?

The market doesnt owe you anyting. but it should pay you for a job well done. So, take it out of the market in the form of a check. Set up and LLC, run your trades through it and have it pay you a salary...(plus bonus) Get a board of directors that you are accountable too, and explein to them, quartely, why you are doing the things you are doin. Become accountable on a longer time frame. Do everyting you can possible do so that its not about the money (even though its always about the money) Why?...because you trade best when it isnt about the money.

My question is, why does money change things for you? (not speccifcally you, but in general) It isnt the money itself, but what it represents as to ones view of self. Lots of money --- good, smart, good provider. Little monoey---bum, failure, ne'ar do well.

No one really wants to be a multimillionaire. People want to live the life of a multimillionare...to have the freedom from the drudgery of a 80 hour workweek at something you dont like.

Money isnt created or destroyed...it just moves form one hand to another...or one form to another.

SO, appraoch trading as a businessman. Buy cheap and sell dear, or sell dear and buy cheap. Buy support, sell resistance. Do that well, the money will take care of itself. Whatever form it takes.

In the investment business it cant be about the money. Because, when its about the money, people crash and burn. Seen it over and over and over. In collegues, in clients...

Its not about the money (Well, it shouldnt be...)

Of course, the opinions expressed here are my own, and does not constitute investment advise. This diatribe is for educational purposes only.



AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


"Life On The Edge of SR"
 
  #3504 (permalink)
Elite Member
london/england
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra charts, NinjaTrader, VK Trader
Broker/Data: CQG, AMP, VK, Kinetick
Favorite Futures: CL/6E/TF/ES
 
Posts: 952 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 562 given, 1,267 received


vv View Post
Hola younger man,

You do more in a week than I do in a month; for now.

Imagine (go deep--way down--deeper and deeper into the bowels of your overworked brain) you are just chilling and trading 2-2.5 hours in the a.m. on CL & then take a 2 hour lunch.

For the p.m. session you are looking at swingtrade possibilities and if another CL trade speaks to you--you actively engage it.

After 2:30pm est you are now bored out of your f-in' mind. Some gym time, a bike ride or perhaps a nap. Maybe your female is around and you take that for a spin, eh?

4X's a week you prepare a nice wholesome dinner while listening to your favorite mood music or perhaps you allow your mind to reflect and chatter on while you concentrate on your biggest task of the latter-part of the day; a good meal.

1 or 2 times in the evening you look for a swingtrade setup in indices or energies or currencies. If it is there, great--you put on the trade and let your software manage the trade for you.

Later in the evening you can read or relax (not drinking too many beers too many nights a week); perhaps you begin taking a natural evening supplement with theanine and/or other 'calming' factors built in--so you can let all of the hustle and bustle drift away.

Maybe you go out and hunt young women on your yellow bicycle by the lake (oh wait--that is what I do); okay--back to YOUR story.

You start to 'bank' extra-restful and purposeful and MEANINGful deep restorative sleep at least 4X's a week.

Upon arising you casually fire up the charts and you go to the nearest coffee shop 2X's a week (early) and watch all of the people in their metal coffins slurping down toxic (or really good) coffee as they trudge to and fro to their awful/soul sucking/mind numbing/non-autonomous J O B S.

They will never have the freedom you have at that point.

Too much house, too much car, too many spawn, too many consumer items. Buying shit they don't need so they can feel good about themselves. Not even close to having 1 or 2 moments of clarity throughout the day.

SLAVES to their children & all of the 'activities' they relentlessly pursue, SLAVES to their horrible bosses and really stupid (you know who they are) co-workers; co-workers that really deserve to have their faces smashed in when they say and do really stupid things, SLAVES to what a t.v. station or radio station or newspaper or their friends tell them what to react to...

I think you get the point (I went off on a rant there).

Live at the end of a cul-de-sac if you are a suburban guy, your own CONE OF SILENCE. YOU make your own decisions and dictate your OWN schedule. You are your own little chief and the markets are your chiefdom.

So what if you start small (a tiny village). It takes time to grow into a benevolent dictator, hmm???

Time to reflect, time to hunt, time to relax & time to plan for the expansion of a small corporate village.

Screw it. I say @GaryD finally realizes it is his time and he is in control of his emotions, his trading size, his journal & his plans for the future.

This is a positive step; calming the mind & body of extraneous activities and the nonsense of the maddening of the crowds is the next.

True reflection & knowledge (of his craft) comes in steps along the way; after he has swept away all of the clutter.

Hell, I bet his wife will be earning nicely within another year or so. He has it all under control.

Nearing mid-40's and finally letting everything both come to a head and letting it all go.

Each of us has our own timetable. Do you seriously think that if he was executing 50% of what he is showing all of us in real time on his journal that he wouldn't be happy with that for a bit?

All of us have given him feedback and encouragement and at times kicked him in the ass about size. Every single trader finds his own way, his own comfort zone & then ponders how and why and when he will take it to another level (if that is what he truly desires).

For some this is a quick process, for others it is slow and incremental.

Finally, forgetting about the MONEY is absolutely the 'base' that a REAL sustainable trading business foundation is built upon.

Now excuse me; I have to put on another trade (if it sets up properly). Markets are moving nicely this week.

Get some!

Trade what you see...

peace

hedvig


Love it @researcher247

Hard old life for us day traders hey

P.S Quote of the week

"Living the dream"

And yes my Friend just got that tattooed on his back! (Iím not kidding) Ledged!

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" I will follow my rules, I will take my stops, I will be disciplined and i will work with the market....NOT AGAINST IT! Professional mind control is the key"
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  #3505 (permalink)
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I am one week into being on the road, Orlando, to DC, to Boston, to DC, to Boston, starting last Thursday. I tried to take a trade this morning, but just did not feel right. I lost $70 on a decision to not trade, or rather exit one. That was a good move in my mind, even though I had no business taking it in the first place. .

But then I had a dispute on a job that got me somewhat upset, and came back to my room to make some calls and review some emails, and took another trade. I did it out of frustration.

It moved against me some and I averaged in, twice, to be in a trade I never should have taken, 3 contracts, down about 5-6 ticks and just stared at it as I talked on the phone, very detached feeling from it.

As it came back to breakeven plus a tiny bit, I got out of the additional two, and was back down to one contract again, and I did get 26 ticks out of that one to finish up $290 today. That was very poor trading on several levels, and I am disappointed in that.

Hard to believe that I am satisfied with my losing trade, and upset with my winning one today, but that is where I am as I sit here in my motel reflecting on the day.


Last edited by GaryD; July 26th, 2012 at 07:48 PM.
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  #3506 (permalink)
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On a different note, I have shifted my view of risk some over the past week. A near week away from trading has given me a different perspective, and I may be seeing a new comfort with a larger dollar risk, by approaching the trade differently. That thought process running through my head contributed to my numbness as I avereged down in my bad trade today. I was not that concerened about it.

So, while the motivation behind the trade was way off, and my risk/reward situation I handled incorrectly caused me to get 3 contracts of heat and 1 contract of profit, I felt different about the risk itself.

I also held the 1 contract to 21+, then down to 8+, then back to 28+, then down... Not caring. And anticipating the small swings as they happened.

I closed due to the 2:30pm time frame coming, but other than that was not interested in getting out. It has been awhile since I had that feeling, but I have been getting my head aimed back in that direction lately.


I made a comment about $500 a week and then $40k in a day. During my flight I thought through the math of that, and it really doesn't seem like that would be the actual spread based on normal expectancies for me. While a hypothetical trade of 10 CL contracts on a $4 swing is all it would take, and that could be managed with proper risk for me, the odds are I would not take a trade with that all or nothing approach. Forgetting about the math though, the intent was to suggest that if risk is held as a constant, allowing profit to have greater freedom of motion is something I am wanting to do once I stop the outside interruptions. And expiramenting with building a base in a swing is something I keep playing with.

When I get a solid month with no other requirements, I am going to try some new approaches that I have been working through in my mind. The busier I became with business, the shorter my hold time got. I am expecting that to reverse itself soon.

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  #3507 (permalink)
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I was previously expecting a new 5WM up, but the major LSP resistance pushed back hard enough to have traded into possible W2 deep enough to consider it an overlapping move, which leans more towards a major ABC. If that is correct, W2 down has subdivided into a symmetrical minor abc, and could give a low risk to reward entry at the break below the red line. That is where my head is as of tonight.

I don't necessarily like the idea of shorting CL with all the Iran issues still in play, but adding to my current theory is the relative weakness I think I saw in CL with today's 6E short squeeze. Having not really had time to get into any real groove with the movement and volume today, I may have missed some critical sign of strength, and ES held a stronger stance than CL did, so I am mixed on my level of conviction on this one.


Last edited by GaryD; July 26th, 2012 at 11:27 PM. Reason: add chart
 
  #3508 (permalink)
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  #3509 (permalink)
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9:37am - noticing how CL struggles in a small consolidation between 89.30 and 90.10, and winding tighter as the equities open. If ES can fall, CL should follow.


However, it is Friday, and that is not a day for large positions...


Last edited by GaryD; July 27th, 2012 at 10:54 AM.
 
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CL is reluctant to take a side


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