Learning to trade through self discovery - Trading Journals | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Learning to trade through self discovery
Updated: Views / Replies:6,504 / 64
Created: by dc618 Attachments:24

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 24  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Learning to trade through self discovery

  #31 (permalink)
Elite Member
Washington DC
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: OEC
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 40 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 42 given, 47 received

My trade set-ups

To combat what might be overtrading, I've decided to write out some my trade entry/exit criteria. I look for two types of setups-- breakouts and reversals:


BREAKOUT TRADES
Major volume spike initiates this setup.
Volume must be well above Average Volume, AND above 5,000. (if this is not met, then a trade could still form (possibly) as a REVERSAL, upon a pullback)

Breakout bar must be relatively long, preferably >20 ticks and the day’s longest
• Do NOT use the 3:00am, 3:05am bar as a breakout bar.

Entry and exit:
Enter 2 lots with 9-tick stops upon close of the spike bar. Enter a third lot with 7-tick stop upon a retracement to 50% of breakout bar.
Profit point on first lot after 10 ticks. Second and third profit points via Fibonacci levels.


REVERSAL TRADES
Volume spike initiates this setup.
Look for volume accumulation.
Volume must be at least 50%, preferably at least 70% of highest spike. Volume must be at least as high as Average Volume.

• For the 3-bar (or 2-bar), the volume of the 3rd bar must be at least 80% of the previous bar.

Entry and exit:
Set entries for with 12, 9, 7, and 4 ticks from low point, less one tick. Exit first lot after 10 ticks, exit remaining lots on Fibonacci levels.



Today's volume was a little slow. . . I'll probably stay away from Mondays because of this. However, there was one trade (see today's chart) that almost met my entry criteria. But it didn't fit the rules, so no entry was triggered.

I must constantly ask myself: Am I trading well? Am I following my rules?
Attached Thumbnails
Learning to trade through self discovery-2011-08-15-chart-mark-up.jpg  
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to dc618 for this post:
 
  #32 (permalink)
Elite Member
Washington DC
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: OEC
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 40 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 42 given, 47 received

Now that I've defined my trade setups, I can take better advantage of my journal. Two screenshots below, one for Tuesday, August 16 (losing day), and the one for today (winning day), August 17. I'm working on adhering to my rules.

I must constantly ask myself: Am I trading well? Am I following my rules?
Attached Thumbnails
Learning to trade through self discovery-2011-08-16-chart-mark-up.jpg   Learning to trade through self discovery-2011-08-17-chart-mark-up.jpg  
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to dc618 for this post:
 
  #33 (permalink)
Elite Member
Miami FL USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ensign 10, NT7 DOM
Broker/Data: IB, IQ
Favorite Futures: Currency Futures
 
Cashish's Avatar
 
Posts: 803 since May 2011
Thanks: 811 given, 2,103 received


Thanks DC for the entry/exit criteria, it helps us "lurkers" understand what you're trading style is all about. I think finding that niche, style or method that comfortably fits our individual personalities can be an exhausting and sometimes frustrating experience. I was somewhat surprised about the, ".... new realization: I'm overtrading" statement. And then again not. I believe there are two ways to overtrade, (1) by the frequency of trades we make, and (2) by size of trades we make, relative to the equity in our trading account.

Big Mike offered wise counsel on helping determine if you are overtrading. You've only posted details to a few trades, I noticed and agree with your statement, "Almost always, I was trading in the same direction after re-entering." "What does this typically indicate?" You may be tempted to believe you position your stops to close to your entry, IMO, it indicates a trader has a problem with his/her entry technique as a whole. August 4, 10,& 17th all show re-entries in the same direction as the initial entry after being stopped out. I've also noticed you tend to increase the size of your trades as the session progresses. I have no problem with adding to a winning trade but as an example look at your August 4th trades. I may be totally wrong but it appears you loaded the boat with a 4 lot, quickly bailed on 3 of them, and held the 4th "to see what might happen." That last trade has the smell of a revenge trade, comming off a losing long, entering with more size and quickly reducing the size of the position as prices pause and rotate, only you know the answer. I believe Mike's comments on the use and placement of stops should provide you with direction for further analysis of your trades.

I assume you have hard statistics from countless back tested trades to confirm your entry strategies, if not I would caution you of being misled by the often occurring paradoxical events of the market. I'm also interested in how you calculate the average volume in real time, I see no study in your volume panel. You seem to place precedence on Fibonacci levels for your exits, I use them myself, but mostly to help bracket or define a range bound market. If I look at multiple market moves and notice confluence levels where multiple Fibonacci levels cluster together I consider these high probability objectives. During your August 16 session (3am to 5am est) the market bounced off the low 1.4360s (the 50% retracement line of Monday's 200 pt move) three times and offered two nice +/-30pt profit trades to anyone willing to buy the 50% level and sell above the .382 level, in a 40 point range bound market (I attached a chart with a crude description). Now, I understand this style of trading doesn't fit your criteria and in all reality if you were to adhere to your rules you would have to stand aside during the entire session. However, as a trader progresses he/she may wish to develop different tactics for different market conditions. I firmly believe if a new trader can identify one or two high probability trades, and develop the discipline to wait for the setups to materialize, enter without hesitation, exit the trades quickly if the analysis is flawed and stay in the winning trades to their fruition, he/she will hold the ability to become a consistently profitable trader.

What's up with the Y axis of your charts, sometimes the scale is 5,6,7 or 9 points, that would drive me crazy And how about moving the decimal point on prices over a couple of spaces And what about that blue line (ma ?), I can't dial that one in , what significance do place on it?

Attached Thumbnails
Learning to trade through self discovery-chart184.png  
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Cashish for this post:
 
  #34 (permalink)
Elite Member
Washington DC
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: OEC
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 40 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 42 given, 47 received

I've pondered my overtrading issue, taking the weekend to delve deeper into the "why" of this problem. In my analysis, my overtrading is due to a number of factors, to include a need to be "in the game", an ill-timed desire to fight back, and a short term focus. Let's look at each of these separately.

I've always been slightly impatient. In times of uncertainty, I tend to want to shoot first and ask questions later. My first job out of college was in sales-- subprime wholesale mortgage. I knew nothing about the business out of school, and before learning about the products, I wanted to be out in the field. I tried it-- just three months later, I felt that it wasn't for me and found a new job. Number of loans sold - zero. The same brash attitude during uncertainty manifests itself when playing a new board game for the first time. I'd rather start playing and learn the rules as I go. Luckily, I've either learned some valuable lessons about patience in the past few years, or I simply find the risk of trading too great to dive in quickly with large size. I spent a year on the forex market, all the while backtesting my entry/exit criteria over a two-year period.

Another observation of myself is a desire to fight back after taking a punch. As a young boy, my father instilled in me the idea of picking myself up after getting knocked down. In some parts of life, this is a great quality to have. It can keep someone from getting discouraged, helping them to try harder to succeed. However, in my trading, it's a sign of my lack of emotional control. Simply put, my quick trade re-entrys have been a sign of revenge trading. I actually like the part about me that doesn't give up easily, but I need to work on the timing of it. Being able to get back in the game after a trade stopout is important. One doesn't want to be gripped by fear after a financial loss. However, I must separate revenge from the desire to win.

Something that might help tie these lessons together and help me to grow as a trader is my focus on timeframe. In this sense, I'm not talking about 5-minute or 15-minute, but I'm talking about the long term focus of trading in general. I've caught myself thinking about my next winning trade, and how nice it would be to have that winner in the next few minutes. The daydreaming takes me away from my focus on my trading rules, the focus on execution. I can take a lesson from Stephen Covey and begin with the end in mind. My focus needs to be long term and wide in scope. One, two, or five years down the line, I want to look back and find out if I was doing the right thing. Whether I won on some trades or lost on some trades will not bring me satisfaction. In the longer term, I will want to know whether I traded well. The only part of trading within the scope of my control is whether I followed my rules or not.

Changing my personality traits is difficult, but it is possible. I'm not sure if I need to change them to be a successful trader, however, I'm sure they will evolve over time. For now, I'm going to put some efforts toward working with my current set of traits. To do this, I'll need to change some perspectives just a little bit. I've been working on sticking to my rules, primarily focusing on my trade entry rules. I must let that be my reward-- the consistent application of these rules over a long period should be my concept of winning right now.

I must constantly ask myself: Am I trading well? Am I following my rules?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to dc618 for this post:
 
  #35 (permalink)
Elite Member
Miami FL USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ensign 10, NT7 DOM
Broker/Data: IB, IQ
Favorite Futures: Currency Futures
 
Cashish's Avatar
 
Posts: 803 since May 2011
Thanks: 811 given, 2,103 received

DC if I bundle, "...... a need to be "in the game" and, an ill-timed desire to fight back" I can easily diagnose you with a very old and very common traders ailment not spoken of very often these days called, "tick fever." It's true, the term was coined many years ago when live quotes first started to become available. The tick, tick, tick of price changes has a seductive quality that calls traders in (I'd assume brokers like that .... maybe that's why we don't hear the term anymore). Keep this statement in mind, "......I'll need to change some perspectives just a little bit." The cure consists of shifting your actions from searching for opportunity (a need to be "in the game") to learning how to recognize identifiable trade-able opportunities (e.g. true entry signals) as they present themselves. Secondly, if you do incur a loss don't look for a quick fix, there are no quick and easy profits, stay on the sidelines and re-access the market.

"My focus needs to be long term and wide in scope," agreed, this is a fast paced arena and it's easy to get caught up in the urgency of the moment. IMO, by focusing on developing good disciplined trading techniques along with money management, the profits take care of themselves and your efforts will pay off longer term. Trading could be the most psychologically demanding vocation a person will ever willingly pursue. I signed up to make money, but in return I got a life of perpetual self-evaluation. I, like many traders have read dozens of trading books, many on the subject of trading psychology. In one of the first books I read (strangely not on the subject of psychology) there was a line that basically said, you cannot understand what I'm talking about, until, you understand what I'm talking about. Of course it took several years and several re-reads before I understood what the author was actually talking about.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Cashish for this post:
 
  #36 (permalink)
Elite Member
Washington DC
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: OEC
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 40 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 42 given, 47 received

To answer a few questions about my trading screen:

The platform is set to auto-scale, so the y-axis is dependent on the range. The decimal point thing bothered me for a while, too. But I guess the platform just does that (e.g. instead of showing the 6E price as "1.4452", it shows it as "144.52". The blue line is the 200-period EMA. I like to look for cases where it coincides with a Fibonacci level and might see the confluence as a possible support/resistance level. My "average volume" is a not a real indicator-- just a quick mental determination of the average over the chart's timeframe.

As for "tick fever"-- yeah I must have it. When I'm in a trade or after a stop out, my focus tends to shift from a calm, longer term view to a micro, "wanna get it back" view. Yes, it is revenge mentality.

I've written down a short trading mantra/prayer that I read every morning. So far it has helped, and I need to be consistent with it to build a long term habit of sticking to my trade plan. There is an excellent new thread about a very similar topic here:

https://futures.io/psychology-money-management/13106-trader-ego.html

I traded well this week by following my rules. And the tick count was well in the green. The east coast earthquake left me without my trading spreadsheet/diary due to a building closure, but I hope to post my charts from Wednesday and Thursday soon.

I must constantly ask myself: Am I trading well? Am I following my rules?
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to dc618 for this post:
 
  #37 (permalink)
Elite Member
Washington DC
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: OEC
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 40 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 42 given, 47 received

I've traded well for the week. Here are the markups from 8/24 and 8/25.

I must constantly ask myself: Am I trading well? Am I following my rules?
Attached Thumbnails
Learning to trade through self discovery-2011-08-24-chart-mark-up.jpg   Learning to trade through self discovery-2011-08-25-chart-mark-up.jpg  
Reply With Quote
 
  #38 (permalink)
Elite Member
Miami FL USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ensign 10, NT7 DOM
Broker/Data: IB, IQ
Favorite Futures: Currency Futures
 
Cashish's Avatar
 
Posts: 803 since May 2011
Thanks: 811 given, 2,103 received

DC
I hope all is well with you and those you care for. Situations like this massive storm have a way of getting our attention quickly and reminding us what's really important in life, our families, our safety and our fellow man.

We hope to hear from you soon.

Reply With Quote
 
  #39 (permalink)
Elite Member
Washington DC
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: OEC
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 40 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 42 given, 47 received

These recent events do indeed show us what is important in life. The Washington DC area was lucky—no reports of major damage from the earthquake or hurricane. Other areas did incur some damage or flooding. My heart goes out to those who dealt with or are continuing to deal with any disaster-related tragedy.

After the earthquake, I enjoyed a day off with my family while building inspectors verified the safety of the structures around the Capital. Those moments with the wife and kids remind us of what we’re ultimately doing work for—to support our families, to contribute to our work community, to serve in whatever capacity our skills and motivation allow us.

The natural disasters of last week coincided with my son’s third birthday. The timing made for some hectic planning, as the number of available hours was eaten up by disaster reaction/prevention. The busy schedule led me to wonder—Is there a lesson in this? I’ve been pondering this for the last few days and I believe I’ve found what these events have been trying to teach me.

Let’s do a flashback on the week for context:
Tuesday- earthquake. In the middle of a contentious meeting. I was one of two people in the room of about 15 who had lived in California and had quake experience. The room starts shaking, and I revert to my kindergarten training of “duck-and-cover”. Shaking stops, I tell everyone to evacuate, take the stairs, watch for burst pipes/gas lines, report to their evac area. People calmly walk the seven flights down and out the building.

Saturday – Hurricane. Stocked up on water, baby food, other groceries two days before the storm. Moved in all patio furniture and other things that could be “projectiles” in high wind. Gassed up the car to be used as a generator (with the power inverter we have). Storm rolls in, rolls out. No damage. But was prepared for much worse.

Sunday—Birthday party. Night before, we ran through the planned activities, timing of pizza delivery, cake cutting, etc. Did walk-through rehearsal to catch possible planning snafus.
The end result of each of these things turned out well. The people I know are safe, and my son had “the best birthday party, ever”.

What are the commonalities in these events? After some thought, it’s simple—preparation and practice.

I don’t consider myself a genius. My whole life, I’ve always been able to spot smarter people, whose innate talent put them a cut above the rest. They’ve been athletes, computer programmers, math whizzes, etc. Those folks have the ability to excel in their field with little to no practice and zero preparation, yet they are experts. I’m not that guy.

But I’m no slouch, either. My game is completely dependent on practice and rehearsal. And with some experience, I can excel. I’ve had this trade journal for two months now, and so far, the thread has been living up to its name. I’ve made a tremendous number of self discoveries in the past 60 days due to the stresses of the trading education and the vicissitudes of my account. I’ve found that creating a rule-based trade plan is actually the easy part—adhering to them is the challenge. The good news is that I’m down less than 5% from the start of this journal. Not too much damage. But if I strip out the days where I didn’t adhere to my rules, my account would reflect a positive delta.

In my next post, I’ll do a more structured analysis. I’m excited – I think I’m onto something about myself, and how I can practice being a better trader.

I must constantly ask myself: Am I trading well? Am I following my rules?
Reply With Quote
 
  #40 (permalink)
Elite Member
Miami FL USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ensign 10, NT7 DOM
Broker/Data: IB, IQ
Favorite Futures: Currency Futures
 
Cashish's Avatar
 
Posts: 803 since May 2011
Thanks: 811 given, 2,103 received



dc618 View Post
The people I know are safe, and my son had “the best birthday party, ever”.

That's great DC, well done, it's good to hear from you. I urge you to maintain your perspective and priorities, keep trading a part of your life, don't let it become your life. Here's a book that doesn't get much "forum air time," it's an easy read and I believe most any trader will find something of value within its text to augment the perspectives and priorities we as individuals bring to the trading experience.

Amazon.com: Trade With Passion and Purpose: Spiritual, Psychological and Philosophical Keys to Becoming a Top Trader (Wiley Trading) (9780470039083): Mark Whistler: Books

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Cashish for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > Learning to trade through self discovery

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Learning how to play guitar...reminds me of learning how to trade shodson Beginners and Introductions 10 September 16th, 2013 06:22 PM
Income while learning to trade MWinfrey Traders Hideout 25 December 12th, 2011 08:11 AM
Learning to Trade: The Cost Of Tuition jupiejupe Traders Hideout 23 September 17th, 2011 06:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:37 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-14 in 0.20 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.91.38.173