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Does Trade Station support multiple sub accounts like Oanda?


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Does Trade Station support multiple sub accounts like Oanda?

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  #1 (permalink)
XM24051
Youngstown, Ohio, United States Of America
 
 
Posts: 10 since Sep 2020
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I am using TD Ameritrade right now, but am considering switching to TS because it has brokerage integration with Trading view which is nice.

I would like to only use the e micro for gold and silver but I want to be able to have different positions (ie go short and long at the same time), so i am thinking if I had 2 accounts I can swap between them using trading view when trading different strategies.

Does Trade station support this feature? I know Oanda does for Forex and its great for strategy automation. I didn't see anything on their website about it though.

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  #2 (permalink)
 SMCJB 
Legendary Market Wizard
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Tradestation 'Brokerage' does not have sub-accounts. If you want to split your trades between two accounts, they will need to be separate accounts, with separate data.

Had another discussion on sub accounts recently here


SMCJB View Post
@Quantom it depends how it is set up by the broker. If your going to use sub accounts I believe the standard setup (I have this setup at two different brokers) is to have a master account, and then have sub accounts under it, including trading accounts, expense accounts and cash accounts. In this scenario, the master account holds nothing individually but is the sum of all the sub accounts. Actual margin requirements while calculated at the master and sub account level are enforced/required only based upon on the main account level.

An example

Main Account.
Long 1 ES $3000 profit,
Short 1 NQ $2000 loss,
$100,000 Cash,
Margin Requirement $8500.
Account Value $101,000
Margin Excess $92,500
Sub Accounts

Trading Sub Account One
Long 1 ES $3000 profit,
Margin Requirement $12,000.
Account Value $3,000
Margin Excess <$9,000>
Trading Sub Account One
Short 1 NQ $2000 loss,
Margin Requirement $16,000.
Account Value <$2,000>
Margin Excess <$18,000>
Cash Account
$100,000 Cash,
Account Value $100,000
Margin Excess $100,000
You will notice that while
  • Main Account Cash = Sub Account 1 Cash + Sub Account 2 Cash + Cash Account Cash
  • Main Account Value = Sub Account 1 Value + Sub Account 2 Value + Cash Account Value

that's not always the case as
  • Main Account Margin Requirement <> Sub Account 1 Margin Requirement + Sub Account 2 Margin Requirement + Cash Account Margin Requirement
because there is an intra-product margin offset between ES and NQ (Note I made the margin numbers up) and hence
  • Main Account Margin Excess <> Sub Account 1 Margin Excess + Sub Account 2 Margin Excess + Cash Account Margin Excess

For what it's worth the intent of sub-accounts is NOT to have offsetting positions. In fact most brokers and the exchange will frown upon that and some brokers will even not allow it at all. They probably will allow you to use Trading Sub Account 1 for Strategy A, and Trading Sub Account 2 for Strategy B, and they occasionally have offsetting positions. Personally I use my sub accounts to separate my trades. One for Currencies, one for Bitcoin, one for Crude, one for NatGas, one for Fixed Income, one for Index's. Makes it easier to track and reconcile my PnL and to track margin requirements.


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  #3 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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You can have multiple tradestation accounts all tied to one platform, all tied to one datafeed (so you pay for data once).

BUT, the accounts do not share margin. So if you are long 1 ES in one account, and short 1 ES in another account, you need 2x margin to hold them (when really you are flat).

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  #4 (permalink)
XM24051
Youngstown, Ohio, United States Of America
 
 
Posts: 10 since Sep 2020
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kevinkdog View Post
You can have multiple tradestation accounts all tied to one platform, all tied to one datafeed (so you pay for data once).

BUT, the accounts do not share margin. So if you are long 1 ES in one account, and short 1 ES in another account, you need 2x margin to hold them (when really you are flat).

Thanks, do you by any chance have any experience with Tradingview? I made a demo account with TS and linked it through TV, but it won't let me open trades through the continuous charts, I have to create a separate layout that runs on another window to load the monthly contracts for order entry. Seems jury rigged to me. On forex all I have to do is use one chart... With futures I have to use a continuous chart that holds all of my drawings, but have to use another chart for order entry.

imgur.com/a/wBef95G

Update:

I think I figured it out. I am using the web client for trade station to manage my positions and trades, and I don't need multiple accounts either. If I am buying for the long term I just use a contract a couple of months in the future. Then I can just use trading view's paper trading to mark the orders on the screen for the continuous chart.

Ahh.. Don't you just love how complicated that was?

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  #5 (permalink)
 SMCJB 
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
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XM24051 View Post
On forex all I have to do is use one chart... With futures I have to use a continuous chart that holds all of my drawings

Comparing apples and oranges.
Forex is a rolling spot instrument.
Futures are forward contracts for specific delivery months.
Let me ask you though, if you bought USD:EUR a month ago at 0.85 would your chart show you bought at 0.85 or would your chart show what your effective purchase price when you add in all the rollover rates? Continuous contracts are in a way showing you what the price chart looks like when you also consider all the rollover rates.

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  #6 (permalink)
XM24051
Youngstown, Ohio, United States Of America
 
 
Posts: 10 since Sep 2020
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SMCJB View Post
Comparing apples and oranges.
Forex is a rolling spot instrument.
Futures are forward contracts for specific delivery months.
Let me ask you though, if you bought USD:EUR a month ago at 0.85 would your chart show you bought at 0.85 or would your chart show what your effective purchase price when you add in all the rollover rates? Continuous contracts are in a way showing you what the price chart looks like when you also consider all the rollover rates.

I guess what I am doing is complaining about why we have to type www. in front of a web page (well atleast before google) lol.

The problem is I don't have a good platform to trade futures. Tradingview was mainly designed for viewing charts (hence the name) and requires you to use the monthly charts instead of the continuous. Obviously since I'm a swing trader that won't work for me since those charts only display 3 months worth of data.

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  #7 (permalink)
 SMCJB 
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Trading Technologies
Broker: Primary Advantage Futures. Also ED&F and Tradestation
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little GE, GC, SI & Bitcoin
 
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XM24051 View Post
I guess what I am doing is complaining about why we have to type www. in front of a web page (well atleast before google) lol.

You don't need www. if a website has a sub/child domain you can enter something in before the main url but otherwise its not needed.


XM24051 View Post
The problem is I don't have a good platform to trade futures. Tradingview was mainly designed for viewing charts (hence the name) and requires you to use the monthly charts instead of the continuous. Obviously since I'm a swing trader that won't work for me since those charts only display 3 months worth of data.

I understand your issue completely. Most prop-level software (eg Trading Technologies) refers to contract months. A trader sat on a bank fixed income desk, doesn't look at the eurodollar continuous contract, he's looking at the expiry month that best matches his need to hedge or speculate. Most retail level software (eg Tradestation) looks at futures as continuous contracts, and hence making futures look more like stocks.

I've always wondered about the validity of using continuous contracts in some/many situations. Looking at a contract and saying "well over the last 3 months there's always been support at XYZ level" is BS. Because 3 months ago that level wasn't XYZ it was actually "XYZ + 3 rolls adjustments" which is a completely different price.

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  #8 (permalink)
XM24051
Youngstown, Ohio, United States Of America
 
 
Posts: 10 since Sep 2020
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SMCJB View Post
You don't need www. if a website has a sub/child domain you can enter something in before the main url but otherwise its not needed.

I understand your issue completely. Most prop-level software (eg Trading Technologies) refers to contract months. A trader sat on a bank fixed income desk, doesn't look at the eurodollar continuous contract, he's looking at the expiry month that best matches his need to hedge or speculate. Most retail level software (eg Tradestation) looks at futures as continuous contracts, and hence making futures look more like stocks.

I've always wondered about the validity of using continuous contracts in some/many situations. Looking at a contract and saying "well over the last 3 months there's always been support at XYZ level" is BS. Because 3 months ago that level wasn't XYZ it was actually "XYZ + 3 rolls adjustments" which is a completely different price.

So how can you reliably trade futures for the long term? You're saying the continuous chart isn't very reliable because its essentially different contracts "stitched" together. But it contains years of historic data which is what you need to swing/long term trade. The other option is to use the monthly contracts which you can directly trade off of on most platforms, but doesn't contain enough historic data to make well educated trades.

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  #9 (permalink)
 SMCJB 
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Trading Technologies
Broker: Primary Advantage Futures. Also ED&F and Tradestation
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little GE, GC, SI & Bitcoin
 
Posts: 4,089 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 3,401 given, 8,095 received

It's just an opinion, well not even an opinion, it's actually more a thought or question than opinion. It's also not a blanket - cover all - issue either. If the absolute market price is unchanged today from a month ago, but in between there has been say $1/bbl contract roll off in crude, then the price has actually gone up $1 and continuous charts will correctly show that. My thoughts are probably heavily influenced by the fact that I personally am a spread trader, and as far as I am aware there is no meaningful continuous (eg back-adjusted) spread chart - but then I don't use charts either. There are lots of successful traders that use continuous contracts though.

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  #10 (permalink)
XM24051
Youngstown, Ohio, United States Of America
 
 
Posts: 10 since Sep 2020
Thanks: 2 given, 3 received



SMCJB View Post
It's just an opinion, well not even an opinion, it's actually more a thought or question than opinion. It's also not a blanket - cover all - issue either. If the absolute market price is unchanged today from a month ago, but in between there has been say $1/bbl contract roll off in crude, then the price has actually gone up $1 and continuous charts will correctly show that. My thoughts are probably heavily influenced by the fact that I personally am a spread trader, and as far as I am aware there is no meaningful continuous (eg back-adjusted) spread chart - but then I don't use charts either. There are lots of successful traders that use continuous contracts though.



So my last question is, how can you trade futures for really long term movements? It seems to me with monthly settlements and built in leverage and order size that futures would be good for swing trading, but not long term investing. However I couldn't find any way to trade gold on a spot market like forex that is legal in the US. CFD's would be perfect for me since I could use sub accounts to isolate positions, make trades directly through trading view on the main chart, and manually specify order quantity. Why would such a perfect solution not be allowed here?

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