Yes ...Mike...I know its not going to work...but according to the thread it did mention Trade Station...so what Im really trying to do here is find out if anyone would or could help me find a fractal indicator that will work with TS???

While i1< maxFracsBack
And Swinglow (i1, low, swingstrength, swinglength) <> -1
And stp_now=False begin
Value3=SwingLow (i1, Low, SwingStrength, SwingLength);
If Value3>blRed or value3>Value2
Then i1=i1+1
Else stp_now=True;
end;

If stp_now then dnFrac = Value3
Else dnFrac= -1;
stp_now = false;

i1 = 1;
While i1 < maxFracsBack
And SwingHigh (i1, High, SwingStrength, SwingLength) <> -1
And stp_now = False begin
Value4 = SwingHigh (i1, high, SwingStrength, SwingLength);
If value4<blRed or value4 < Value1
Then i1 = i1+1
Else stp_now = TRUE;
end;

If stp_now
Then upFrac = Value4
Else upFrac = -1;

If upFrac <> 0 and upFrac <> -1 then plot1 (upFrac, "UPFract");
If dnFrac <> 0 and dnFrac <> -1 then plot2 (dnFrac, "DNFract");
// End Easylanguage Code

The following user says Thank You to schris87 for this post:

Fractals are nothing special. You can use the Swing indicator that comes with NinjaTrader to display them. Bill Williams defined a fractal as a swing high or low with a swing strength of 2.

NinjaTrader also comes with a some Bill Williams indicators already programmed in. Bill Williams in his second book I think, introduced the awesome oscillator to help filter "bad" fractal trades. All the AO is a MACD built from a 5 SMA and a 34 SMA. He introduced the alligator as well...something like that. You'll have to research.

I extensively researched fractals. They may have worked for Bill back in the 80s on currency pairs, but they do not work today. Or to put another way, I didn't transpose any discernible edge from trading fractals. His books are pretty good though.

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- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
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The following 2 users say Thank You to JonnyBoy for this post:

Thanks. I couldn't remember the name of the Swing indicator, since I'm not on NT any more. There's also the Price Action Swing indicator in the FIO downloads section, with does the same thing on a the basis of a different calculation. I think every platform will probably have something like this. Sierra Chart has one called ZigZag that does the same thing.

The problem with anything of this nature is that it has to wait for a certain number of bars before concluding that a turn has happened. So while it can be useful in automatically drawing short-term support or resistance levels for you, it's just doing what you would do yourself if you eyeballed a chart and said, "Oh, it turned here, I'll draw my line from it." It can't tell you anything about the future, other than whatever you can obtain from any support or resistance line.

You can just put the Swing indicator on your chart and see if you can use it. Don't expect miracles, though.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote

The following 2 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:

Indeed. I actually really liked Bill Williams. He was a bit of a legend IMO and a very good speaker. I fear that his approaches to the market are not valid anymore, or need updating. I am sure if he was still around he would have adapted and made them so, but fractals are just not it anymore IMO.

At least with the fractal, the support and resistance lines are consistently drawn. The biggest problem when manually drawing S/R lines is that most people will put them in a different place, even if they have the same information in front of them.

My findings with Fractals (and their respective S/R lines) was that random lines (and I literally mean randomly drawn horizontal lines in the chart) had as much statistical validity as the fractal S/R line. So, I hung up my boots on that one.

However, that isn't to say I didn't find "something" to improve a fractal entry by comparing the CD of the historical fractal with the CD of the just formed fractal when price revisited that new fractal. If the CD was the same or better, it improved the odds of a successful entry. However - if the fractal was trading into an HVN, LVN or historical VWAP, VPOC - the odds dropped to 50/50.

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- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
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The following 3 users say Thank You to JonnyBoy for this post:

That's some really nice analyzing. Just out of curiosity I wanted to ask, Bill talked a lot about Mandelbrot Fractals and natural patterns in his videos, did you happen to research that area?

There is nothing to research. Benoit Mandelbrot first coined the term Fractal in association of calculating the length of a coastline. Mandelbrot invented a new way of measuring irregular natural objects or natural systems. He named it Fractal or, more properly, the fractional dimension. There was no specific Benoit Mandelbrot fractal that applied to trading - he was just a guy. A smart guy, but just a guy.

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- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
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The following 2 users say Thank You to JonnyBoy for this post:

Yes, I did read about it. Also his brook, in which he mentions modeling market behavior with his fractal thingy. That's why I was curious if there was some implication of it for retail trading as well since Bill kept hammering that concept in his seminars. Thanks for sharing your experience ^^

No problem. I think Bill was hammering that everything is a fractal. He did apply the concept of fractals to trading, hence his fractal indicator. The markets have always been fractal in nature under the guise of Chaos Theory. But then again, going to the bathroom is also fractal in nature.

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- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
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The following 3 users say Thank You to JonnyBoy for this post:

I think fractals have a place in the toolbox along with any other tool. I have been working through various applications of Bill Williams' fractals, the 'alligator', awesome oscillator, etc. My interpretations of BW's tools were all wrong initially and found them useless. I eventually turned to reading and studying his books to learn how he used these. There are a number of ways to use fractals other than support and resistance.

I have found that timeframe is an important consideration, particularly with respect to price volatility. We have found profitable uses for them (futures and forex specifically), so for us we see the tools are still relevant in our trading.

~vmodus

The following 2 users say Thank You to vmodus for this post:

I don't disagree that you can find profitable opportunities using fractals. I myself did find that combining them with the cumulative delta could perhaps increase their profitability.

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- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
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The following 3 users say Thank You to JonnyBoy for this post: